The Mathematics of Getting Scammed

[IAmZon]

"She was just trying to scam me" I met a guy here in Ukraine from NY.  He is a very nice guy, and is sincerely looking for a wife - WAAYYY OUT OF HIS LEAGUE. I have never heard the word "scam" so much as when I spent 1 hour with him.  It gave me the inspiration for this post.

SURE, there are strippers and whores (and men) that pose as women seeking marriage online.  The Seducer is a part of the human story. Superficial Dishonesty, and you should expect that 70% of the time in Eastern Europe, torpedoes the believably of online romances

(ONLINE ACTIVITY - Personally, I think the amount of time it takes to create an online relationship is painful.  Having said that, I know that frequently two people meet online and magic happens.  If you have the time, knock yourself out.  But, it is far better to spend time on Social Network systems that are popular in the regions of the world that you are interested in, rather than finding an exception to the rule in a popular US based system.  There are also language and culture exchange social networking sites where more sincere people can be found.)

To Come and Meet Many Girls is Damn EXPENSIVE - When I am having fun, I spend money like a drunk sailor (because I am a drunk sailor LOL)  But, I do not like to be taken advantage of in principal, or lied to.  That is a pet peeve of mine.  I don't care if it is only a penny. 

Now, take an example when I have met a lady from an internet profile and she turns out to be someone I would NOT wanted to meet in the first place!  And, then there is 40 bucks for a meeting, 15 bucks for a translator ... and it is not uncommon for the first "date" bill to reach 125 bucks.  And, then there is taxi money, right?  You can be in as much as 150 - 200 bucks just to take a look see.

So, do yourself a favor:  If you have never seen the girl before, do not make a big deal about it.  One hour only.  Drink and Sandwich / Salad at a normal place.  Nothing happens on the first meeting anyway. Follow-up meetings is where the action is.

Do yourself another favor: Be selective and realistic.  And, do not do a date-a-thon.  I have seen guys have 20 dates with one agency!  Think about that for a minute.  Then, I had drinks with this guy from Brazil a couple nights ago.  He had 6 dates and he could not decide between 4 girls and a translator.  So, he bumbled all his time away, and only had 4 days left until his return flight.

Bad Reputations: I am sad to say that the male part of this equation seems far worse than the female part of the equation.  When something bad happens in an agency all the girls find out about it.  3 quick examples from one agency in the last 6 months in this little town.  1. AM girl and translator in Kiev.  Man says I have a gift in my room.  They go alone. Translator waits down stairs.  Man attacks and attempts rape.  2, AM girl and translator go to Thailand.  Man has an "anger attack and is on all fours in a public restaurant barking and frothing at the mouth.  3, A sweet poor 21 year old has her first date with an AM.  After 10 minutes the AM says, I have to go.  Leaves the girl at the restaurant. And the girl has to call the agency because she does not have 4 dollars for the tea. There are many more examples, of course.

There is a timing factor here on the female side.  If a woman enters an agency and takes everything seriously, writes letters, etc... How long before she becomes disaffected?  How many men actually come to visit?   Of those, how many are not worthy of a second date?   There is a relatively short life span for a super girl to be positive about working with an agency IMO.

Getting back to my friend that was all "Scam-Speak". WHY DO YOU THINK THESE WOMEN THAT ARE RATHER EXCEPTIONAL BY AMERICAN STANDARDS GIVE US AN HONEST CHANCE?  It is because we are successful, at least relatively successful.  Providing a higher set of choices and financial ability is part of the equation.  When you think you have found the right person, I think you should show you "normal spending" patterns; lean into this correctly.  It is as much leverage as the woman wearing a nice dress and sexy shoes.  But, do so on your own terms.

BOTTOM LINE - although there are exceptions, men mostly get what they deserve in this game.

[BC]

I've often voiced the thought here that the best way to get married is to not try.

Instead of depending on agencies and ladies that already have an agenda, try to set yourself up with any kind of interest group.. plenty of opportunities.. sport, music, hobby, business, camping, absolutely anything that can be done as a group.  I can see one might need some assistance to find an 'in' at least initially but at least you'll be with folks with a common interest which is half the battle anyway. 

No matter even if the group consists of only males, word gets around quick when an interesting foreigner shows up.

Going the standard MOB route seems just so limiting, almost looking for trouble.  Why work when you can have just as good results having fun.

Get exposure and the rest will fall in place effortlessly.

JIMHO

[IAmZon]

Get exposure and the rest will fall in place effortlessly.

Perhaps the wisest words ever written here.

[newjason]

I too am a firm believer in the concept of "letting it happen" as opposed to "making it happen".
If a man is on a mission to get married to an FSU woman,  Most likely he will be able to marry a FSU woman. However , I also believe that When a man looks for marriage and chooses candidates from 1 specific region/country/ethnicity ect.  He is by design, looking for ANYONE in the specific regional criteria.
Anyone who he believes he is compatible with that is.

So anyone TRYING and actively seeking a bride, will find one IMO.
Then, it's not surprising, when after some time, it doesn't work out, because it was not something either party had bargained for or even thought about in advance.

False relationships are just that, False.

True relationships  last because they can not be damaged by anything or anyone other than the two involved in them.  To meet and marry this person is not a race, and cannot be rushed, because if it is a true relationship, both parties already know their destiny and in their hearts and minds are together always.

And that my friends is worth more than anything else in this world.

Because it can not be bought, made, manufactured, forced, bribed, or paid for. In fact, it is free.

IMO, Marriage is the Life long state of living and loving your life and doing it with your mate because doing it together creates feelings of joy, love and happiness that could never be experienced alone.

[Chicagoguy]

A few of my thoughts:
Maybe make sightseeing the first priority
If you need all the handholding of an agency are you really ready for international traveling - some of the people who rent out apartments can help you find an independent interpreter
This is really an adventure for many and should be approached this way
And yes, find a way to make friends with some of the locals
This cannot be done cheaply but decent women should help you be prudent with your money [ Riccardo excepted ]
 

[Misha]

Get exposure and the rest will fall in place effortlessly.

JIMHO

Or you will be single for a long, long time. If it is so easy to let things simply happen, why are there so many dating websites and before the web the newspaper personals?

[BC]

Or you will be single for a long, long time. If it is so easy to let things simply happen, why are there so many dating websites and before the web the newspaper personals?

Easy answer Misha.. folks looking for the easier, softer way....  off their couch.

Folks have become accustomed to 'instant gratification' but forget relationships are not Walmart.

[Gylden]

I am pretty sure that a person can be active while looking and at the same time patient and relaxed enough to no feel pressured or in a hurry.

[alex330]

All good advice Rivardco. This mirrors what my wife told me while she worked in an agency.

Many guys would get caught up dating so many women that they would pass up on some great women.
This can go on for years. She would see the same guys coming over year after year unable to decide and ending up alone.

The stories she would tell me about the men that came over were truly mind boggling. It is no wonder that many women are seemingly not serious or called "scammers". There was even a guy who supposedly murdered his wife and was there looking once more.  I told her she should write a book about her experiences one day.

You are correct with timing. It is a huge factor in this endeavor.

[Misha]

Easy answer Misha.. folks looking for the easier, softer way....  off their couch.

Folks have become accustomed to 'instant gratification' but forget relationships are not Walmart.

It is always so easy for the extroverts and the ones who were fortunate to find dating easy to pontificate  The rest of us do what we can to find love and happiness...

[Faux Pas]

Or you will be single for a long, long time. If it is so easy to let things simply happen, why are there so many dating websites and before the web the newspaper personals?

Pretty much the same reason that the drive-thru at McDonalds is more popular that walking in and sitting down.

IMHO, most WM that think explore the FSUW want it quick and are not necessarily hip to the idea that dating is the same in both countries. BC's advice is spot on. Although I have never used an agency, isn't it quite easy to see the attraction of an agency to the flakes and freaks both men and women? With that statement I am in no way saying that all or most people who use an agency are flakes or freaks but, the scenario would be quite alluring to those types

[BC]

I am pretty sure that a person can be active while looking and at the same time patient and relaxed enough to no feel pressured or in a hurry.

Of course keep eyes open for opportunity.

[BC]

It is always so easy for the extroverts and the ones who were fortunate to find dating easy to pontificate  The rest of us do what we can to find love and happiness...

Maybe it's just me Misha.. but I learned early on the harder I tried, the more I failed.

Love always happened when I least expected.

[Gator]

Bad Reputations: I am sad to say that the male part of this equation seems far worse than the female part of the equation. 

True, but still the women want to meet men.   
 

There is a timing factor here on the female side.  If a woman enters an agency and takes everything seriously, writes letters, etc... How long before she becomes
disaffected?  How many men actually come to visit?   Of those, how
many are not worthy of a second date?   There is a relatively short life
span for a super girl to be positive about working with an agency
IMO.

 
They remain positive yet become less eager.  With much meeting experience they become skillful at cutting to the chase.  That is good for everyone. 

Keep in mind that women are not staying home.  They are pursued by local men.  Some may even have a sex buddy.


[I had other comments; however, when copying your font it becomes to difficult to enter new material in the correct location.]

[GQBlues]

LOL, mathematics of being scammed? Sure...


Old stupid lonely man + photo of a young gorgeous woman - (minus) $800 for visa to arrive to him = the ol' visa scam. 

[Misha]

Maybe it's just me Misha.. but I learned early on the harder I tried, the more I failed.

Love always happened when I least expected.

This is a perfect example IMHO of how personal experience can bias our perceptions. In my case, love never simply "happened" and it never just fell into my lap. I found love and marriage because I looked for it. It does not make it any better or any worse than your experience, and does not make my relationship any stronger or weaker, it was simply a different road leading to the same destination: the land of happily married.

[IAmZon]

1, You have to get lucky ... but, you also have to put yourself in a position to be lucky (a wise many recently said to me)


2, It is very difficult for a guy with limited time to properly evaluate the human dynamics at work here.  The problem is as much TIME as it is CULTURE and LANGUAGE


3, They have sex- buddies?!?!!?  Well, that does it!  Get me a plane otta here:)  Listen, the woman I am interested in did not know I existed 6 days ago.   She is not a girl.  She is a woman.  She has a full life, and I just dropped in from Planet Mars.  I think you have to be sensible and view this as an adult.  ( I have sex buddies too!)

[newjason]

This is a perfect example IMHO of how personal experience can bias our perceptions. In my case, love never simply "happened" and it never just fell into my lap. I found love and marriage because I looked for it. It does not make it any better or any worse than your experience, and does not make my relationship any stronger or weaker, it was simply a different road leading to the same destination: the land of happily married.

Misha IMO you are the exception rather than the rule.
You have your eyes open and are not clouded by fantasies.
Love is what you found and marriage is what it became because you can see reality clearly.
Because love was your motivation, it became something special.
some people  are talking about marriage and finding someone to marry, with no mention at any time about love being part of the equation.
Sadly when love is not part of the marriage arrangement, it becomes something different.
Sometimes when we want something so badly, our vision becomes narrow and it can be hard to see with those rose coloured glasses on. But love does come knocking when we least expect it for sure.
Misha,
I congratulate you on your success and wish you a lifetime of happiness and joy. You are a rare and fortunate man.  No glasses required   

[Misha]

Thank you. I will be leaving this weekend for Europe and will be spending over a month in Russia. I will be posting some photos from Moscow and a few other locations. Though, these photos will mainly be photos of landscape, architecture and perhaps general images of life in Russia.

[Gator]

Thank you. I will be leaving this weekend for Europe and will be spending over a month in Russia. I will be posting some photos from Moscow and a few other locations. Though, these photos will mainly be photos of landscape, architecture and perhaps general images of life in Russia.

Misha and Ms. Misha - Bon Voyage!

[Misha]

Misha and Ms. Misha - Bon Voyage!

Merci! Thank you!


 


Though, I have to say that the new airline regulations on how much luggage we can bring is testing my wife. Trying to cram all that we will need for three months in two 23kg bags that will be checked in and two 10kg carry on bags is taking a great deal of time and thought 

[Muzh]

Hey Misha & Mrs. Misha, have a great trip. 

[IAmZon]

-

[IAmZon]

Back to the main topic ...

It has been fascinating to see my experience and some others too.   Right when you get ready to conclude that all this is a bunch of BS, you find a reason to believe.  And, then a couple hours or days later, the opposite happens.   It takes time, patients, and money ... but, there are many many good quality women that can be met and courted on line and with the help of agencies.

I have become friends with a couple agency managers and translators in the little town I am in.  Evidentally, although a small town, it has a large on line and MOB presence.  AFA has an office here - an ominous sign.   Here are some interesting facts / stories to add to your thought process:

- most men go after the same few girls ONLY.   This leaves a large amount of 7s - 8s, very outstanding girls, with almost no interest (that is where the gold is IMO)

- Most men on sites / tours become waay overly selective.  Initial meetings are EASY.  Second, third meetings are much more rare. The tour operators / agencies position the first meeting as genuine interest from the woman's part.  I have never seen this actually be the case.   The women, if available and hopeful, will meet rather liberally.  It means NOTHING.   I have seen women give the "benefit of the doubt" often to a second meeting too.  Again, if the woman is a whole human being, this does not mean she is ready to sign fiance papers.  And, then, I have seen men, because of the ease and quality of a first meeting slide into GA GA land.   As if all these 19 year old bathing suit models will be happy with a very average 40 year old given 3 years to "transition".  MAN KNOW THYSELF.- Socials are a joke.   The agencies and all the promoters and interpreters have to beg barrow and steal to get a good turn out.

- Fast Expectations.  What is the biggest reason quality women who are serious quickly loose interest in a foreign man?  The stop watch.   A guy, with the best of intentions, says ... look, I have traveled across the planet to meet you.  I really like you and you might become the most important person in my life, my second half, and the mother of my children.  But, I only have 3 days before I have to go to another city and meet another possibility.  So ...

- A Big Turn Off.  AM are almost always frothing at the mouth with sexual frustration.  Put that in check.  Do whatever you need to understand that sex happens when the woman in comfortable and things are normal (or manipulating).  You should not try to "get lucky".  THE MAN should be bold and deliberate, but in control.   Too quick references to sex verbally, or any preoccupation with the superficial, has been the reason for otherwise promising relationships to end.

- IT IS TRUE; a good man in these countries is damn hard for women to find.  That is the best fact that is grounded in reality for those reading these pages.  You really do not need to be superman - just don't screw it up.

- Roads Less Traveled.  The big cities get much traffic.  Expending a little more effort to get off the beaten track - ALONE - is a very good idea.  I see that I was taken 1,000 more seriously and respectfully than when I was with a group in Kiev or Kharkov.

[erikmagenta]

Very interesting read, thanks for sharing.  How can somebody date so many women, and then expect them to commit to a future life together within a few days period?  I would think it would take many trips back and forth visiting just the one chosen, preferred lady, to develop a commitment.