best tour company to meet a wife

[lbkguy12]

Have been reading alot here and havent really found a name of a really good or top reviewed tour company.
I want to do like a 7 day tour then be able to do 7 days on my own. what are yalls reviews?

[IAmZon]

Your tempting the Gods by that request.  Several Commercial guys float on these boards pumping their advantages.  Do your research, and then talk to everybody.  See how you feel, then remember if it sounds too good to be true, it always is.

Use the PM feature to discuss privately with the commercial and non-commerical members, otherwise you can unleash a shitstorm without even trying.

[Turboguy]

There is only one tour that many guys will recommend.  That one is Jack Braggs tour and his website is www.FirstDream.com    The big agency tours are more for suckers.   

[IAmZon]

yea, but ... It depends on who you are, and what you are seeking.

If you are a first time traveler, and a little jittery with women, maybe a tour is for you.   For me, and many of the other guys on the tour being referenced above, there was too much "sucker"  "sap" "looser" vibe to the tour.   A group by its very definition reduced some men and lifts others to a "norm".  That is the norm that the women will see. Because of the mechanics of a tour, creating an individual impression is difficult.

When you think about it, a group of people traveling with one - rather suspicious purpose - just does not pass the straight face test to "normal people.

Again, read and talk to all promoters and salesmen ... then, as an adult, make the best call for you.

[TheTraveler]

first ask yourself, "would john wayne have gone on a tour?"

[Ade]

first ask yourself, "would john wayne have gone on a tour?"

Given that he was married 3 times, had 7 kids and had various affairs, then, "probably" is the right answer.


What you really should ask is, "no matter who else did it, why would I want to, really?"

[IAmZon]

first ask yourself, "would john wayne have gone on a tour?"

Fu&^%$ awesome !

Or, better, say you meet a woman that you want as your equal, your wife, the mother of your children.  HOW CAN A MAN SAY ... "honey, you may be the love of my life, but I have to go with the boys and meet a whole bunch more girls, because the big mean man will get real real mad at me if I don't."?

I'm just saying

[Faux Pas]

Have been reading alot here and havent really found a name of a really good or top reviewed tour company.
I want to do like a 7 day tour then be able to do 7 days on my own. what are yalls reviews?

Most guys or I should say many guys at RWD wouldn't advise "most" men to go on a tour or hire a wing man. There are legitimate reasons for that. There are also legitimate reasons why a man would go on a tour. Rather than exploring tours at this juncture, maybe you should explore if you are such a man who would benefit from one or perhaps take another approach.

[Muzh]

To the Texan OP, I would suggest to take your time before you consider going on a tour or by yourself.
 
Tours DO offer a service by providing accomodations, food and drinks, and a probable easy lay. And before anyone gets offended, let's be honest and don't deny human nature. Get offended with the guy who just goes on tours because he could not find any at home.
 
So, if the OP has a sense of adventure, a tour is not for you. If the OP cannot be bothered with the planning and reservations, then go on a tour.
 
My personal choice would be to go on your own.

[IAmZon]

Tours DO offer a service by providing accomodations, food and drinks, and a probable easy lay

Getting a hotel, food, and water - anywhere in the world - just pull out your AMEX  LOL   And, for a foreigner just wanting to have sex?  I think Ukraine is one of the worst choices imaginable. 

[calmissile]

As some have already posted, your choice of what approach to use depends a lot on the circumstances and your comfort zone in going to a foreign country and being alone without even knowing the language.  We each have our own instincts and preferred ways of doing things.  I agree with Muzh that you should take your time and carefully think through each method as well as learn everything you can about the FSU culture before ever getting on a plane or making reservations.

Before giving my personal analysis, let me make the caveat that I have never used a tour company or a wing man.  It was only because it was not necessary in my circumstances.  It does not mean that I would not recommend it for others.

1.  If you create a strong relationship with a woman over months of emails and Skype chats, you may not need either a tour guide or a wingman.  If you are comfortable putting your life in her hands when you get there and are relatively certain that she is not going to leave you out in the cold if things do not go as well as expected then you can probably go on your own.   You may need and interpreter from time to time or do like we did and use google translator for day to day simple translations.

2.  If you are not as comfortable as the situation in #1, but have a gal that you are serious about, then perhaps a wingman might be a good choice for a couple of reasons.  First, he/she will double as a translator.  Second, if things turn to Sh$$ between the two of you, the wingman can probably line you up with other dates so that the trip is not a total waste of time and money.   Third, the wingman can also make the travel arrangements (in country) and negotiate apartment and taxi prices.

3.  If you are going to Ukraine to shop for a wife that you have not contacted previously, then perhaps the tours are one way of meeting women.  Additionally, if you are a little nervous about going to a strange country for the first time, you might find that either #2 or #3 will take some stress off you as the planning and details have been worked out for you.

No matter what approach you use, I would suggest downloading the E-Book "Men of the West - Women of the East" from RWD.  In addition, there is an excellent free resource "How to Meet the Woman of Your Dreams" from one of the RWD members web site.  Look up Mark Davis in the members section and go to his web site for a wealth of free information.  He is also a tour operator, but his info is all free.  The FSUW culture is so different from anything you have probably experienced, that it might pay for you to learn as much about it as possible before you decide to make a trip.

I would also suggest going onto one of the free websites that ML recommends and start chatting with FSU women.  If nothing else, you are going to get a feel for how different the culture is in communicating from what you are used to (even when translated).

Study, study, study first.   LOL
Good luck!

[Shadow]

If you meet a wife on a tour, by the definition of the word 'wife' she is already married. 
Generally speaking it does not matter if you set up a bunch of meetings on your own or go on a tour. In both cases you have to understand that the initial meeting is just a way to see if something might develop, and a more in-depth meeting is required.
The difference for the women (if you manage to conceal it properly) is that they may not know you are on a shopping trip.

[IAmZon]

The difference for the women (if you manage to conceal it properly) is that they may not know you are on a shopping trip.

Unless you are James Bond, or the woman is completely mentally lacking (99.9% of the women here are NOT) they know you are on a shopping trip! No ifs ands or buts - it's a fact.

I spoke with a friend who has an ownership interest in one of the big MOB sites this morning by SKYPE.  I met him in Colombia when he was visiting his "girl friend".  I knew better. I though HE KNEW BETTER TOO?!?   He told me she cheated on him and had a novio all the time (I thought to myself - she had more than one!  And, that did not include her sponsors).  Then, he told me that I should stay away from "this guy" I be-freinded on Facebook!  He set him up with a woman in Ukraine who, as it turned out, had a boyfriend!  I asked him: "How many in person physical days did you spend with your "girlfriend" of "6 months".  It turns out he took her on two "vacations" ..."but, everything was so great" MY POINT IS:  This guy should know better! Vacations and tours are not reality.  Maybe everybody is capable of drinking the koolaid.

Personally, I will leave in several days after knowing a good woman for 3.5 weeks.   I was confused why things went slow in the first two weeks.   We have had two disagreements / miscommunications that resulted in me turning from her in this time (and I am crazy for her)   In both cases, she came back and fought for me.  In retrospect, she has been amazingly constant with me and open.  I think it was as hard for her to give what she gave to me (openness, hope, effort) as it was for me to give what I gave to her (time, dedication, vulnerability).  MY POINT IS: Begin that we met through an agency, and having only one visit, it is amazing I have gotten to know her, and her family, and friends, and habits, and work place, and hobbies, as well as I have.  In truth we only have a "little something" right now, and that needs to develop. Sure there are exceptions! But, don't count on them. 

Tours epitomize the fantasy over the reality.

[missAmeno]

... knowing a good woman for 3.5 weeks.   ... what I gave to her (time, dedication, vulnerability). 

Dont want to dance on your parade but at least wait 3.5 months before using word dedication, its kind of laughable at this stage.

[IAmZon]

Dont want to dance on your parade but at least wait 3.5 months before using word dedication, its kind of laughable at this stage.

Everyone has their own definitions.  Accordingly to ME - I've been pretty damn dedicated!  LOL   

Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I told her I would stay her in her city ONLY FOR HER. (I could be any place on this planet). Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I put my ego in check stopped giving other women a chance (obviously there are more than one possibility for me).   I asked her to do the same as we began learning each other.  She agreed.   She is a woman that requested time.  That would be fine if I was a local fellow.  But, how many men in this world would make a clear decision for a woman at THAT cost.  It has not been cheap, and I value my time highly.  I have been remarkably constant to her in our first month - and her me, of course.

(SORT OF FUNNY ... some arm-chair quarterbacks suggest a time table of 3 - 7 days before  a marriage proposal, others suggest 3 - 6 months.  It is different for everyone.  I had diner last night with two foreigners married and living here.  The first guy met his wife and stayed in Ukraine for 10 days ... then, went back home for 11 months ... then, came back, and has never left.  The other guy dated his wife for 4 years, then got married and has lived here ever since)

[missAmeno]

Everyone has their own definitions.  Accordingly to ME - I've been pretty damn dedicated!  LOL   

Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I told her I would stay her in her city ONLY FOR HER. (I could be any place on this planet). Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I put my ego in check stopped giving other women a chance (obviously there are more than one possibility for me).   I asked her to do the same as we began learning each other.  She agreed.   She is a woman that requested time.  That would be fine if I was a local fellow.  But, how many men in this world would make a clear decision for a woman at THAT cost.  It has not been cheap, and I value my time highly.  I have been remarkably constant to her in our first month - and her me, of course.

Lets try it from her point of view 

Upon meeting him, or several days there after, I put my ego in check stopped giving other men a chance (obviously there are more than one possibility for me).   He asked me stop dating other men.  I agreed.   But I requested time (after all if he is right one I will have to leave everything I know behind me for him).  That would have been fine if he was a local fellow (but he had/still have a trouble to digest that).  But, how many women in this world would make a clear decision for a man at THAT ( giving other men a chance) cost.  It has not been cheap, and I value my time highly.  I have been remarkably constant to him in our first month - and he to me, of course.

Rivardco, honestly how do you think she would feel reading what you written? I think most of women in her shoes would be offended.

[IAmZon]

Rivardco, honestly how do you think she would feel reading what you written? I think most of women in her shoes would be offended.

these are my inner thoughts, not my love letters. You think a woman would be insulted only?   Without the second guessing of my inner voice.  Judging only by my actions, I think many women would be flattered.  Remember you are only seeing part of the story.  I have been near absolute and open in regards to my intentions.  I have been dedicated without being pathetic everyday:)  Not an easy blend.  Maybe you think half-hearted approaches are appreciated by women?  I have a life time of them. They were fun, but they really lacked any real seriousness ... they did not go anywhere.  My fault!  Enough about me specifically!!!

======
Often over the past month, I have thought about the similarities of what I am experiencing to the times I have started a business LOL Don't laugh, or ridicule me.  When a man starts a business (and when it is successful), it takes a superhuman, almost self hypnotic state to go from nothing to something.  The entire world laughs and mocks and the odds are way against the entrepreneur.  When you invest in a business, you never say, maybe I should have started another business.  When start-up problems arise, you never say, "red flag," NEXT.  Of course we are talking about investments and stewardship of emotions and people rather than capital and business ... but for those that know what I am talking about, I think there are similarities.

[calmissile]

Rivardco,  in spite of your world travler and plaboy status, I think you have developed a distorted view of UA woman.  If is unfortunate that you wasted most of  your trip on a cold fish that did not turn into a romantic love affair.  From your posts I gathered that you concluded that this was a 'nice/good girl' because you  thought she was reserved and slow to respond.  In my opinion you got trapped by a professional agency girl that neither was serious about finding a husband, nor wanting to immigrate.  Your explanation that she may have become jaded by all the previous sex tourists or married men, nevertheless, she was not marriage material.

As has been written in great depth on this forum, women that are into you and serious about marriage do not behave this way.  They have already thought out about immigrating and leaving their families behind and the difficulties they will initially face when arriving in a new country.  One way to determine this is whether they ask you about their life in your country.  This is before you are falling in love with each other.  The serious ones already know that if the chemistry is there between the two of you, then it is time to discuss the mechanics of how you each perceive the marirage will unfold in your country and what she should expect.  If a FSU women is serious about immigrating and she likes you , she will make it very clear to you that she wants you as her man and there will be very little hesitation on her part to make sure that you understand her intentions.

When you first meet, there is a legitimate concern on her part that she does not want to parade you around town and introduce you to her parents until SHE has decided that you are 'her man' and worth persuing.  Put yourself in her shoes.  If she has several dates a year, she does not want to experience the embarassment of explaing what happened to the last guy that she had here!  Oftentimes,  going to a neaby city to be together out of site of her friends and family for a few days is something that should be expected and understood.  Within a few days she will either decide you are the one or you are not.  Once she has decided, it will be ubundantly clear that she intends to make you her man and expects you to follow through with the same sentiment toward her.

I am suspicious about your gal introducing you to the family, etc.  It seems to me that since she was rather aloof and cool toward you, I am thinking that she did this to keep you on the hook for the benefit of the agency and her obligations to it.  It is just not the normal way things go.  Perhaps she is just not made up her mind for marriage.  I doubt it had anything to do with you.  If she was not serious, she should have dumped you so that you both could both move forward to your next opportunity.

About sex concerning Ukrainin women.  UA women do not consider sex a nasty, dirty thing only held out for marriage.  Get a grip man!  UA women enjoy sex very much and for the most part do not have the stereotypes of western women.  They do not hold out on sex as either a reward or something to withhold if they like you!  They view it as a healty psychological/biological part of healthy living.  You think that these agency gals do not have local boyfriends to take care of their physical needs?  Get real.  It is only going to stop when there is a strong commitment between the two of you and she has full trust in you that you are going to go through with your promises to marry her and immigrate her to a better life in your country.

You might have a good point about agency women becoming jaded after seeing all the sex tourists and married men that never return after their promises.  I guess that is one reason I have no interest in agency women.  I have noticed in the past year that most of the women have been with the agencies for many years and still have not found a husband.  You can often tell by their ID# with the agency as to how long they have been listed and not found a husband.  In every case, the women I was corresponding with for over a year and a half are still listed as single and it appears that they may have been on the site for a year or two earlier than that.  I ask you, is a woman serious about finding a foreign husband going to be on a site for years if she is serious?  If she is that picky, I doubt she will find her knight in shining armor.  LOL.   Or is that she is simply a money maker as eye candy for the benefit of the agency?

I still feel that contacting women on the free sites is one of the best approaches.  If they claim to be serious about finding a foreign husband it will not take long before you can start asking questions about her family and whether her adult children are expected to immigrate, whether she plans to work in the US, and what thought has she given to finding employment once she gets here.  Also, what are her plans to become fluent in English either before, or after she gets here.  If she comes accross with the stare in the headlights response, she has not thoroughly thought about any of this and is probably not seriously looking for a foreign husband.  One of the most revealing clues, is when they early on ask about what it is like to live in your city, what employment opportunites there are, what her standard of living would be when you are married, etc. etc.   That is a gal that is more serious about wanting a foreign husband.  The rest might be just agency eye candy or gals that just put their profiles out to see what it will generate ($$$$).

I really liked your origianl idea of setting up camp in serveral cities and blending in with the locals.  It is unfortunate that you did not get to experience the true culture of the Ukrainian people.  Having read all of your posts, I am more inclined than ever to suggest to guys to just make a short trip or two to kick back and lean and enjoy the culture without being hell bent on finding a wife on the first or second trip.  For one thing you are not otherwise going to understand much about the UA culture unless you get involved into it.  Either by her inviting you into it by staying with her family, or making friends and staying with them for at least a week or two.  As I suggested earlier to you,  making local friends and just staying with them for a while would have possibly been much more beneficial to you in the long run.  Trust me,  even if you do not hook up with a lady on your first trip the exposure to the culture and making new friends can pay off dividends in the long term more than you can imagine.  If you do marry a FSU women some time in the future, the prevoious culture exhange from previous visits will pay off big time.

Just one short example... On my last trip I was engaged and my fianc'e and I vistied a family in Cherkasy that were long time friends of my fianc'e.  We stayed at an apartment that one of their other friends gave up for us to stay at.  I paid a nominal fee for the inconvenience of the tennat which I never met.  We went partying toghether with the family, had dinners and vodka together and I had never found more gracious hosts in my life.  We also spent a week at their dacha in the forest and picked mushrooms and had great meals that were cooked outdoors on an open fire.  I assumed that the hospitality was all due to the long term relationship my fianc'e had with them.   After my fiance' and I ended our relationship, the family and I kept in contact via email and Skype and they have invited me to come and stay with them when I arrive this summer (without fiance').  They also offered to once again pick me up at the airport in Kiev as they had done last time.  The husband also indicated that he will line me up with some dates if necessary.  These are the kinds of friends that I suggested that you can meet through networking that might turn into lifetime friends if you continue to have an interest in the Ukriane cuture or plan to visit the country again. If you are there for a quicky, or expect to remove a FSU women from her homeland forever then this might not be important to you..... but I bet it will.  LOL

I wish you had not got hung up on the women you chose, because it caused you to miss so much of the culture and the 'good things' about Ukraine tha can be appreciated in the future.  It you choose to give it another try in the future, I hope you keep some of these things in mind.  If you do not like the culture or the people then it should not matter to you.

Good luck on your next adventure.  Next time, don't assume that a cold women is just reserved and a characteristic of a 'good girl'.

[IAmZon]

= Rivardco,  in spite of your world travler and plaboy status, I think you have developed a distorted view of UA woman.  If is unfortunate that you wasted most of  your trip on a cold fish that did not turn into a romantic love affair. =

Playboy status ?!?!?  God What Have I done:)

Listen man, I have a sort normal relationship with this chick now.  The first couple weeks was a little frosty  = WTF    I have lived in Colombia, these girls are not HOT like Colombianas. I have known more than one.  AND, I have just started. It's not like I only got one lottery ticket for crying out loud.

I strike a more BALANCED tone with the good and the bad ... the fantasy versus the reality.  That's all  Don't feel sorry for me.  Or think I am bitter.  I don't know where you are getting that.

ANY WAY - about tours ...

[Shadow]

Unless you are James Bond, or the woman is completely mentally lacking (99.9% of the women here are NOT) they know you are on a shopping trip! No ifs ands or buts - it's a fact.

I agree with you, but at least let some guys keep their fantasy at being James Bond. 

[Boethius]

Dont want to dance on your parade but at least wait 3.5 months before using word dedication, its kind of laughable at this stage.

Everyone is different, missA.  I could've used the word "dedication" within a week of meeting my husband, and I've been dedicated to him since.

[missAmeno]

these are my inner thoughts, not my love letters. You think a woman would be insulted only?   Without the second guessing of my inner voice.  Judging only by my actions, I think many women would be flattered. 

Yeah, right. Up to the point when they understand what kind of inner thoughts hiding behind/driving forward your actions. And do believe that FSUW will need much less time for that then you are hoping you will get. 

[Muzh]

Everyone has their own definitions.  Accordingly to ME - I've been pretty damn dedicated!  LOL   

Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I told her I would stay her in her city ONLY FOR HER. (I could be any place on this planet). Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I put my ego in check stopped giving other women a chance (obviously there are more than one possibility for me).   I asked her to do the same as we began learning each other.  She agreed.   She is a woman that requested time.  That would be fine if I was a local fellow.  But, how many men in this world would make a clear decision for a woman at THAT cost.  It has not been cheap, and I value my time highly.  I have been remarkably constant to her in our first month - and her me, of course.

(SORT OF FUNNY ... some arm-chair quarterbacks suggest a time table of 3 - 7 days before  a marriage proposal, others suggest 3 - 6 months.  It is different for everyone.  I had diner last night with two foreigners married and living here.  The first guy met his wife and stayed in Ukraine for 10 days ... then, went back home for 11 months ... then, came back, and has never left.  The other guy dated his wife for 4 years, then got married and has lived here ever since)

[missAmeno]

Everyone is different, missA.  I could've used the word "dedication" within a week of meeting my husband, and I've been dedicated to him since.

Boe, with all respect, read again Rivardco's own definition of "dedication".

Everyone has their own definitions.  Accordingly to ME - I've been pretty damn dedicated!  LOL   

Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I told her I would stay her in her city ONLY FOR HER. (I could be any place on this planet). Upon meeting her, or several days there after, I put my ego in check stopped giving other women a chance (obviously there are more than one possibility for me).   I asked her to do the same as we began learning each other.  She agreed.   She is a woman that requested time.  That would be fine if I was a local fellow.  But, how many men in this world would make a clear decision for a woman at THAT cost.  It has not been cheap, and I value my time highly.  I have been remarkably constant to her in our first month - and her me, of course.

Do you think your understanding of "dedication" comes any close to his?

[Muzh]

MissA, is it possible the boots are not enough? How about...?