LAND OWNERSHIP in Ukraine

[SANDRO43]

My husband told me years ago that Depardieu had purchased ancient wineries.

Not in Ukraine, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_celebrities_who_own_wineries_and_vineyards#cite_note-Forbes-2:

Gerard Depardieu: Chateau de Tigne (Anjou, Loire Valley, France)
Also owns vineyards in Bordeaux, Languedoc, Algeria, Argentina, Morocco, Spain, Sicily and United States

However, I think I remember reading that he had bought shares of vineyards/wineries there, or had otherwise become partner of local owners.

[Boethius]

He bought at least one winery.  The Russian language papers don't have an archive I can access, but I found this -
 
http://moroccotomorrow.org/2012/04/07/bottoms-up-depardieu-becomes-crimean-vigneron/
 
2005 sounds right, but I believe he did, in fact, buy some properties then.  IIRC, he vacationed with Yushchenko.

[JayH]

While we are concentrating on Crimea -- can anyone give me reliable (!) companies with property for sale .

[Wayne]

Yes, the winery is in the Bakhchisaray District, North of Sevastopol, towards the West. It is within walking distance of the Black sea, where their is a wild, nude beach.
Most of the shoreline is a steep cliff, but there is a natural valley cutting through to the beach in this area. It looks like the shoreline is publicly owned and not developed here. The water looks clear and clean, but stones along the beach.
I is a shame that people leave trash here!
The grape vines are very healthy and I have tasted the grapes.
 

[timinua]

While we are concentrating on Crimea -- can anyone give me reliable (!) companies with property for sale .

You might want to start out with this site:

http://dom.ria.ua/

[Wayne]

I found this map, that I attached, but it is in Ukrainian (I think!). Does anyone have a link to a map of crimea translated to English?
 
I am trying to located our property on the map.

[timinua]

I found this map, that I attached, but it is in Ukrainian (I think!). Does anyone have a link to a map of crimea translated to English?
 
I am trying to located our property on the map.

It's in Russian. I don't have any English maps of Crimea.

No Google Maps?

What's the name of the closest village to your dacha?

[SANDRO43]

No Google Maps?

Here's one - click on the minus sign at left for a larger scale, it starts at a place in the hills south of Simferopol, for some reason .

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=p&source=embed&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=117509295732566878951.00047ff5c001ac9e08e06

[Wayne]

Thanks for the map. I think the place it starts at is a cave that we went to see. The entrance is on top of a hill; in fact, there is a large, natural hole where many animals fell to their death. Their bones are still there. Your can make a tour of the cave and it is very interesting. It was very hot outside when we went there, but cool inside the cave and you needed a jacket.
 
I will do a search!

[Patagonie]

I would just say that, as Ukraine is very corrupted, any business FOR FOREIGNERS around property, especially if the amount $ is high can be changed with the complicty of the notary, judge, and local autorities to the name of the "put his name here" mafia guy.
So the risk is, if you are associated with locals, that you lost all by just a modification of name on documents. And if you worry  people too much , you need to know that more than a thousand contract are performed each year.

[Wayne]

I am trying to zero in on the vineyards of Depardieu. Can anyone from Ukraine look at the attached Google Earth photos and see if they recoginize anything?

[Wayne]

Some more photos:

[Wayne]

Does anyone know anything about the Village of Osypenko near Sevastopol?

[JayH]

I am interested in anything you can tell me/us!!

[Wayne]

If you are looking for land in Crimea, Yalta and that area is over priced. Sevastopol land is lower priced.
Of course, if you have a place in Simferopol, it is only a short trip by car to a lot of interesting places.
 
This is the typical beach in the under developed areas:

[Bee Farmer]

Does anyone know if they have made any changes regarding agricultural land ownership in Ukraine?

Ukraine is hosting a large international beekeeping conference this next autumn.  http://apimondia2013.org.ua/en/  This will be the largest international industry event in Ukraine history with 12,000 visitors.

President Yanukovych is a beekeeper, and he is giving a lot of support to this conference.  One of the goals is to encourage business investment in Ukraine.  Commercial beekeepers often have beekeeping operations along side of other agricultural operations.  They farm and do bees too.

If all foreigners are allowed to own is a small piece of land or business property, all they would be able to attract would be equipment manufacturers or someone building a honey extracting and bottling facility.  Of course, those would be the easiest things for corruption and bribes.

1.5% of Ukrainians are beekeepers.  Beekeeping is supposed to be a very large reason helping Ukraine to be settled originally.  Because so many people keep bees in Ukraine now, it makes me wonder if bees are still a way of making money there that is harder for corruption to take a portion.

In America - it is 1 in over 2000 people who are beekeepers.  The government has no way of knowing where your hives are, and you can bottle the honey and sell it retail.  It is an all cash business for many people.  I know beekeepers who gross $200K in cash annually.

I also know a beekeeper who does pollination rental and drives this car.



So if beekeepers can exert an influence at this conference, what should we be asking for in regards to agricultural land ownership?  With Yanukovych being a beekeeper, and trying to attract business investment, and trying to improve Ukraine's image - what problems should we be trying to use this influence to fix?  If we have the opportunity to make a change for the better, what changes should we be pushing to get implemented?

[tfcrew]

Anybody ever see this site ....

www.ukraine.com

http://www.ukraine.com/forums/moving/3450-private-land-ownership-ukraine.html

[mies]

Does anyone know, what happens if you are US citizen married to a Ukrainian, you are living together in USA. Then, your spouse becomes a US Citizen. She still owns property and/or apartment, house or whatever in Ukraine.

The rules, laws, whatever for land ownership in Ukraine is limited for US Citizens. It is also subject to change.

Would the Ukrainian, now turned American, lose or be forced to sell their property in Ukraine? What if, for example, they owned not only the flat where they used to live, but another flat or vacant property?

These links may be of help to your wife:
- http://www-us.tovarish.com.ua/archive/878/Piataia_po/Osoblyvost.html
- http://zakon2.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/3773-17

The caveat that i see is this one:  "іноземці та особи без громадянства, що перебувають в Україні на законних підставах" meaning that they are residents of Ukraine.

In my understanding, one of the key differences is in the tax rates, especially when a non-resident wants to buy or sell their property in Ukraine. For foreigners and non-residents the rates of taxation are much higher, also rules for inheritance of the property is different when the non-residents are involved. 

Then, about the property ownership, there are some discussions: http://otvet.i.ua/user/2289514/7550/?r=3&bs=rating&bp=1

There are expected changes to the codes of Ukraine, and apparently starting in early 2013 there is expected a reorganization of the unified database of real estate. According to analysts, with the new registry of real estate the buyer of the property will not be able to receive the full record of the property ownership, and hence the risk of buying the property which was previously sold to someone else (double- triple- sale of the same property) will be increased.
This is the law: http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/uk/publish/article/news_left?art_id=314767&cat_id=37486

[mies]

In general, if google doesn't lie, the foreigners cannot buy the land that has agricultural value (hence may be problematic to buy the land and build the house in rural area), whereas urban area presents issues with buying apartments:
- http://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2012/03/16/318771/ - each apartment belongs to the individual owner, but the apartment complex as a unity belongs to the public utility company. Which limits in many ways the rights of individual owners and creates multiple nuisances. 

A Ukrainian lawyer Tetyana Montyan has a series of articles on this topic. The articles are in Ukrainian, but I suppose it's possible to use google translate to get the basic facts and ideas.

http://society.lb.ua/life/2011/02/12/84293_yuridichna_sutnist_bagatokvartirn.html
http://blogs.pravda.com.ua/authors/montyan/506c36f74bffd/

And about risks of investing into the real estate development in Ukraine:
http://montyan.org/news/Montyan_prosit_ZMI_pidtrimati_oshukanih_investoriv_zhitlovogo_budivnitstva/185

and about real estate raiders in Ukraine: http://blogs.pravda.com.ua/authors/montyan/5061a9d3a22f0/

[mies]

Here is an article (in Ukrainian) about the "State registry of real estate property rights" and risks for property buyers, associated with these changes:
http://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2012/12/28/353361/

and one more: http://www.epravda.com.ua/columns/2012/08/31/333446/



And here is cadastre map for Ukraine:
http://map.dazru.gov.ua/kadastrova-karta
http://www.dzk.gov.ua/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181:2013-01-02-09-14-23&catid=36:i