Child's reaction to Russian grandmother

[missAmeno]

It's actually just the opposite.  My mother doesn't bring many presents, but MIL brings a ton when she comes.  My mother also has a bad back and can't pack her around all the time like MIL wants to.  My wife has tried to tell her mother to ignore our daughter for a while or at least not try to give her constant attention like she does.  But when grandma only sees her once per year, it's almost impossible to convince her to give our daughter a little space. 

Oh thats because one is your mother and another is her mums. Your daughter is not jealous of your attention but of your wife. She feels Russian grandma stills attention she gets (or not) from your wife. Figure out why she is so jealous about her mum and you will know how to handle situation with grandmother.

[TheTraveler]

everyone here seems to see this as some sort of problem with the two-year old...

jealousy, phobia, resentment... really?  come on!

somebody's got to stick up for the little fella... might as well be me.

it doesn't sound like he has any issues with anyone else, so i'm blaming the mil 100%.  she probably started out smothering the boy, and his reaction was probably something like, 'back off! and by the way, who the hell are you?'

seriously, if he last saw her a year ago at age one, i doubt he even remembered her.

if she can't get a two-year old to like her, she's the one with the problem.

[JayH]

When my mother comes around, our daughter attaches to her like a magnet and completely ignores my wife and me.  It doesn't appear like that's going to happen with my wife's mother, at least not this visit. 

The benefit of this visit is that our daughter has seemingly become fluent in Russian in just the last month and a half.  She speaks in Russian with grandma and my wife, and in English with me.  Funny how fast that can happen.   

Great to hear about the Russian--it goes to show how smart kids really are!!The trick now is to be able to get her to keep speaking it!

My nieces ( 3 girls) were extremely good with my mother(their grandmother) in much the way you describe-- and from a young age -- virtually untill out of teenage years. Their fathers mother-- they would simply refuse to have anything to do with her and avoided at every possibility.She was Italian /American and still culturally very Italian .My sister clashed with her-- although polite in public and in front of the children. You can see where I am going !! 
There is probably not one answer-- but in future try and make seeing grandmother  a exciting positive experience for all.  No conclusions-- just thinking about it.

[BC]

everyone here seems to see this as some sort of problem with the two-year old...

jealousy, phobia, resentment... really?  come on!

somebody's got to stick up for the little fella... might as well be me.

it doesn't sound like he has any issues with anyone else, so i'm blaming the mil 100%.  she probably started out smothering the boy, and his reaction was probably something like, 'back off! and by the way, who the hell are you?'

seriously, if he last saw her a year ago at age one, i doubt he even remembered her.

if she can't get a two-year old to like her, she's the one with the problem.

Girl btw....

But yes you do have a good point about simply not knowing baba well..

But still the scratching and hitting is puzzling.  Any good parent would want to understand more about that aspect so that it can be dealt with.

Small children, even two year old's can be very manipulative..  I recall having problems with our son putting on his seatbelt when riding in the car.. he simply fought and refused..  puzzled, talked to a friend who is a professional and it seemed we had been rewarding him too much when he did things correctly... so he simply behaved that way in order to receive a reward.  Next time, I simply told him that since I cannot drive without him putting on a seat belt I would have to walk home... I got out of the car and started walking.  I disappeared around the corner and peeked back.. he was crying.  I walked back after a minute or two and asked  "are we ready to go home now?" - that was the last time we ever had a problem with seat belts... today he will remind me to put mine on...

Hitting, scratching, biting, whatever.. all are reactions that should not be allowed to continue.. Parenting can be very challenging... example should a child be spanked for hitting? or be bitten for biting just to 'know what it feels like'?

Tricky stuff... I'll leave it at that.

[Jumper]

everyone here seems to see this as some sort of problem with the two-year old...

 That's because they don't call it the terrible twos for nothing,
and because it is incorrect behavior?
 

Or do you feel a toddler should be allowed to scratch and hit because any random  person welcomed in your home just doesn't fit their mold of familiarity?

lol my father would have spanked me well enough to know i would not repeat that behavior.
psychologists can decide how horrible long lasting effect that had

It is tricky, and the behavior could be from her just not understanding this new person being plopped into here life /enviroment..
That doesn't excuse the behavior itself, or the need for the child to learn something from the situation, even if its as simple a lesson as hitting and scratching arn't acceptable?

[roykirk]

 That's because they don't call it the terrible twos for nothing,
and because it is incorrect behavior?
 

Or do you feel a toddler should be allowed to scratch and hit because any random  person welcomed in your home just doesn't fit their mold of familiarity?

lol my father would have spanked me well enough to know i would not repeat that behavior.
psychologists can decide how horrible long lasting effect that had

It is tricky, and the behavior could be from her just not understanding this new person being plopped into here life /enviroment..
That doesn't excuse the behavior itself, or the need for the child to learn something from the situation, even if its as simple a lesson as hitting and scratching arn't acceptable?

It is tricky, but at least it's something my wife and I agreed on early.  My dad beat the hell out of me, and I spent most of my childhood and early adulthood literally hating him.  My wife's dad was pretty rough on her as well.  As a result, neither one of us believed in spanking as a form of punishment.  But still, I'm conflicted.  Basic behavioral studies of rats over a hundred years ago showed us that even the most basic creatures understand that doing something that causes pain or discomfort typically causes a correction of that activity.  But kids aren't rats, and if our daughter is acting out with a type of violence (scratching and hitting) is it really smart to show her violence in return?  What kind of confusing message does that send?  I ask these rhetorically because I don't really know the answers.  We're still trying to figure it out ourselves. 

[Ade]

But kids aren't rats, and if our daughter is acting out with a type of violence (scratching and hitting) is it really smart to show her violence in return? What kind of confusing message does that send?  I ask these rhetorically because I don't really know the answers.  We're still trying to figure it out ourselves.

I (we) agree on this. I don't think that all kids that are spanked necessarily end up damaged or resent their parents but I think there are other ways to discipline and to teach right from wrong that are better and more effective in the long term if you're consistent and firm. There is quite a large body of research that indicates that physical punishment can have long lasting negative effects, so as there are clear alternatives I don't see why people would want to commit violence against their children. And, as rhetorical reply, you don't have to answer.

[Vaughn]

In thinking way back to my relationship with my own pair of grandmothers at my young age, I clearly recall a difference between the two atmospheres when either was present. Perhaps the child perceives the her bond with Mama is somewhat threatened with Mama's Mama in the mix. As BC mentioned, she'll grow out of it. It's difficult to pinpoint the root cause of odd behavior in the case of a young one.
 
Glad they found time alone to warm up to one another.

[Faux Pas]

I (we) agree on this. I don't think that all kids that are spanked necessarily end up damaged or resent their parents but I think there are other ways to discipline and to teach right from wrong that are better and more effective in the long term if you're consistent and firm. There is quite a large body of research that indicates that physical punishment can have long lasting negative effects, so as there are clear alternatives I don't see why people would want to commit violence against their children. And, as rhetorical reply, you don't have to answer.

Different children respond differently to the various forms of punishment. Some actually respond well to spankings while others respond well to the threat of a spanking. Psychological/mental punishment can be just as damming as physical.

When you mention committing "violence" against children because one was spanked is quite a bit OTT. Violence would more equate to beatings and physical abuse which is absolutely wrong. Spankings on the other hand is a necessary tool to correct bad behavior for some children and to some degree can be abusive to others. It's difficult to pigeon hole that kids need this or that. They are literally as different as snowflakes.

[GQBlues]

Personally, I think Babushka's the one that needs spanking... 

2 year old...I can't picture a child that young requiring any form of emotional/mental/physical punishment. It'd be much more beneficial to find out what got the child to react that way, or incite that type of a reaction, in the first place.

As for lab rat experiments as somehow an illustration how behaviors are kept in check in their upbringing as some form of parental barometer to go by...hhmmm..they also eat their young when it prove to be the weakest of the litter so I dunno. IMO, I'd much rather take a cue from Cesar Millan given the choice...

This is a tough one, but I'm glad the 'Dads' are coining in their experiences on how these things are/can be handled.
 

[Ade]

Different children respond differently to the various forms of punishment. Some actually respond well to spankings while others respond well to the threat of a spanking. Psychological/mental punishment can be just as damming as physical.

Physical or mental violence, it's the same thing. Threatening spanking/violence it's the same thing. People who do it don't seem to get that you're using fear of being hurt to get kids to do what they want.


Not my idea of a good way to raise kids. But hey, you do what you like. I on the other hand will not make the mistake my father did and I will trust to the research that shows that corporal punishment is not the best or most effective way to discipline a child. 



Oh and, yes, when you hit a child it is violence. You inflict pain with physical force. They fear you. Your kid, your choice. But not mine.

[Faux Pas]

Physical or mental violence, it's the same thing. Threatening spanking/violence it's the same thing. People who do it don't seem to get that you're using fear of being hurt to get kids to do what they want.

Spanking is not violence. Spanking is only effective behavioral correction to a segment of children, not all. Some kids get it, some kids don't.

Not my idea of a good way to raise kids. But hey, you do what you like. I on the other hand will not make the mistake my father did and I will trust to the research that shows that corporal punishment is not the best or most effective way to discipline a child. 

You leave the impression that perhaps your father didn't spank you enough.  Yeah, I'll stick to what I like and you trust the research. Good luck when your kid didn't read the research. I only raised 4 into college educated, high functioning well adjusted adults. Maybe I need more research? 

Oh and, yes, when you hit a child it is violence. You inflict pain with physical force. They fear you. Your kid, your choice. But not mine.

Hyperbole. A child can benefit from a measured dose of pain or fear. Shielding them from it has the capability of more damage in the short and long term. We're talking  a temporary stinging on the butt here, not a punch in the eye. Raise you a couple of kids, then get back to me.

[BC]

Physical or mental violence, it's the same thing. Threatening spanking/violence it's the same thing. People who do it don't seem to get that you're using fear of being hurt to get kids to do what they want.

Spanking is not violence. Spanking is only effective behavioral correction to a segment of children, not all. Some kids get it, some kids don't.

Ade,

Although like you I am very against using violence as a tool for punishment, I don't think that is where FP is coming from.  Consider different forms of 'spanking'... both in terms of how it is done and for what reason.

Violence has a couple of facets, mainly anger and intent to cause harm.  I have seen parents spank in anger, even to the extent to cause harm.  I doubt any of FP's kids would relate either anger or were afraid of being bodily harmed. 

In addition the reason.  Consider two scenarios...  One, a child knowingly steals from a store, the other a child hits and harms a sibling...  I think the punishment should be different for these two actions.  For which action in your opinion would a swat or two on the butt be more appropriate? For which might a "Get to your room right now, you'll go without supper tonight." be more appropriate?

That leads to my final point and that is moderation..  I don't really believe an occasional swat on the butt, dealt without anger and the minimum force necessary to get a point across will turn a child into a violent person.

Take myself as an example..  I can remember words like... "listen kiddo.. this is going to hurt my hand more than your butt, but if you can't learn any other way then lets get it over with..."

Spanking used in moderation (hopefully rarely), and without the aspects that comprise violence such as anger and harm, may work with some kids as FP  states.

Even though I may be totally against such punishment methods, I am not going to put FP in a box labeled 'bad parent'..  Probably the worst punishment at all for a child of any age is to form the belief that a parent does not care about them.

Lastly, I do believe that any form of punishment needs to be wielded consistently in order not to confuse.

The truly 'bad' parents that end up overdoing things by a long shot simply have not acquired the parenting skills they need and are often completely frustrated when a child is in control of them and not vice versa.  FP seems the exact opposite of this.

Just points to ponder.. the world is not black and white.

[Jumper]

roykirk,


I don't have the answers either, glad you took my post in the light intended.
It's a hot spot topic for a lot of adults.


I have raised a son, he went through a few stages and yes the terrible twos stage.
Overall he was and is a great kid and easy to raise.

[Muzh]

Violence has a couple of facets, mainly anger and intent to cause harm.  I have seen parents spank in anger, even to the extent to cause harm.  I doubt any of FP's kids would relate either anger or were afraid of being bodily harmed. 

Boy, how true that is.


Raising three kids, I can tell you that I would never, ever, inflict any kind of physical pain on them. Now, there were times that I had to get their attention and I did; by either grabbing their faces and making them look at me or a little swat that would accomplish the same. Either way, they understood that I was trying to talk to them. It got to a point I didn't have to touch any of them, all I had to do was <ahem, ahem>.


BTW, I'm guilty of being very physical with my children and they just love it. Even today, my huge son (6'4" 210 lbs) will wait for me to get up from the couch to give him a hug. And the little one? He gets the most (hugs and kisses.) I joke with him that he will some day will be too old for me to do that. He says that nobody has to know. So says my oldest one.

[BC]

BTW, I'm guilty of being very physical with my children and they just love it. Even today, my huge son (6'4" 210 lbs) will wait for me to get up from the couch to give him a hug. And the little one? He gets the most (hugs and kisses.) I joke with him that he will some day will be too old for me to do that. He says that nobody has to know. So says my oldest one.

From youngest 8 to oldest 30, a hug a day is the 'rule' whenever it is possible, meaning when we're together. Is as important as brushing teeth and should be no less frequent.

[Faux Pas]

Ade,

Although like you I am very against using violence as a tool for punishment, I don't think that is where FP is coming from.  Consider different forms of 'spanking'... both in terms of how it is done and for what reason.

Violence has a couple of facets, mainly anger and intent to cause harm.  I have seen parents spank in anger, even to the extent to cause harm.  I doubt any of FP's kids would relate either anger or were afraid of being bodily harmed. 

In addition the reason.  Consider two scenarios...  One, a child knowingly steals from a store, the other a child hits and harms a sibling...  I think the punishment should be different for these two actions.  For which action in your opinion would a swat or two on the butt be more appropriate? For which might a "Get to your room right now, you'll go without supper tonight." be more appropriate?

That leads to my final point and that is moderation..  I don't really believe an occasional swat on the butt, dealt without anger and the minimum force necessary to get a point across will turn a child into a violent person.

Take myself as an example..  I can remember words like... "listen kiddo.. this is going to hurt my hand more than your butt, but if you can't learn any other way then lets get it over with..."

Spanking used in moderation (hopefully rarely), and without the aspects that comprise violence such as anger and harm, may work with some kids as FP  states.

Even though I may be totally against such punishment methods, I am not going to put FP in a box labeled 'bad parent'..  Probably the worst punishment at all for a child of any age is to form the belief that a parent does not care about them.

Lastly, I do believe that any form of punishment needs to be wielded consistently in order not to confuse.

The truly 'bad' parents that end up overdoing things by a long shot simply have not acquired the parenting skills they need and are often completely frustrated when a child is in control of them and not vice versa.  FP seems the exact opposite of this.

Just points to ponder.. the world is not black and white.

There's a voice of experience taking and making sense. Out of 4 kids I may have administered a dozen spankings in my life. 2 kids needed them. One only needed one and the other needed none at all. I never spanked in anger or to make me feel better and none of them did. Some kids need to be spanked to understand there is a price to pay for unacceptable behavior. One can spank out of love and violence never enter the equation. The stinging ass passes quick enough but yes, the memory remains. It is suppose to. Otherwise, what's the point?

I've always treated my children with the utmost respect, loved them deeply and never hesitated to take the time to teach them right from wrong. Part of that was not them fearing as much as it was them knowing, that crossing certain boundaries had a price to pay. Was I right or wrong? I point to the finished product.

I had many spankings as a kid and probably some violent ones. It's a good thing I didn't get all I deserved or I might not be alive today 

[Ade]

Ade,

Although like you I am very against using violence as a tool for punishment, I don't think that is where FP is coming from.  Consider different forms of 'spanking'... both in terms of how it is done and for what reason.

Violence has a couple of facets, mainly anger and intent to cause harm.  I have seen parents spank in anger, even to the extent to cause harm.  I doubt any of FP's kids would relate either anger or were afraid of being bodily harmed. 

In addition the reason.  Consider two scenarios...  One, a child knowingly steals from a store, the other a child hits and harms a sibling...  I think the punishment should be different for these two actions.  For which action in your opinion would a swat or two on the butt be more appropriate? For which might a "Get to your room right now, you'll go without supper tonight." be more appropriate?

That leads to my final point and that is moderation..  I don't really believe an occasional swat on the butt, dealt without anger and the minimum force necessary to get a point across will turn a child into a violent person.

Take myself as an example..  I can remember words like... "listen kiddo.. this is going to hurt my hand more than your butt, but if you can't learn any other way then lets get it over with..."

Spanking used in moderation (hopefully rarely), and without the aspects that comprise violence such as anger and harm, may work with some kids as FP  states.

Even though I may be totally against such punishment methods, I am not going to put FP in a box labeled 'bad parent'..  Probably the worst punishment at all for a child of any age is to form the belief that a parent does not care about them.

Lastly, I do believe that any form of punishment needs to be wielded consistently in order not to confuse.

The truly 'bad' parents that end up overdoing things by a long shot simply have not acquired the parenting skills they need and are often completely frustrated when a child is in control of them and not vice versa.  FP seems the exact opposite of this.

Just points to ponder.. the world is not black and white.

BC, I'm not going to argue with you over this. I know the memories I have and I know it made me no less prone to misbehaviour, I know how others turned out after being spanked too and I know what the research says. Experienced fathers can scoff at the research if they wish but that's just ignorant; we are where we are through the application of scientific method and although the results aren't always perfect, it's a damn sight better guiding compass than anecdotal evidence presented by some anonymous dudes on the internet.


And just because others can point to some that did well even if they were spanked it doesn't mean that they couldn't have been better had they not been. The research indicts that the general trend is exactly that. It's not always about the severity of the spanking either, but about how the knowledge of good and bad behaviour is imposed and imprinted.


I guess that's all I have to say about that.

[roykirk]

Well, grandma went home today and it's been sad for everyone.  Our daughter finally warmed to grandma during the last week she was here.  The woman was here for 6 weeks, and our daughter decided she liked her only in the last week.  She's been running around our house all day, looking in closets and behind doors saying, "Babba!  Babba?"  Then she starts crying.      Poor kid isn't going to see her outside of a computer screen for another year, most likely.  Wonder if she'll even remember her again?  But now Babba is talking about moving over some day soon if she can make it happen, so maybe things would be okay.  She's reasonably well off by Russian standards (she and my wife's dad own a ton of rentals that they plan on selling), and she's delighted that we have quite a few Russian immigrant neighbors who have told her about their process of moving over here.  But I guess that's a different thread I'll have to navigate for advice.   

[JayH]

Thanks for the follow up  Roy-- nice to see it worked out ok. Maybe now the 2 have a connection talking in Skype can help keep the good vibe going.