Stress in Russian Words

[mendeleyev]

just a small correction. Correct term for still water will be без газа  (bez gaza), literal meaning "without gas" or негазированная if you can pronounce it

Ranetka,
 
 Thank you for taking part in this topic! I think that we are one the same page.

You can also specify Вода без газа (water without gas)

third line on bottle, негазированная, no gas carbonation.

Yes, негазированная can be difficult at first but with a little practice is possible to say. Perhaps you can help me break it down What do you think of this? ne gaz i ra van naya.

Please look it over and correct as needed.

[Fashionista]

I believe that the "ro" syllable is stressed and the "o" would thus be pronounced as o and not a. This is what I have confirmed here: http://starling.rinet.ru/morph.htm

This is correct, and since the first syllable is not stressed, it'll sound closer to nee, than to ne

[SANDRO43]

Yes, негазированная can be difficult at first but with a little practice is possible to say.

I believe that the "ro" syllable is stressed and the "o" would thus be pronounced as o and not a.

So it's негазиPOванная.

Is it my impression, or Russian has a larger number of antepreparaoxitonic words (i.e. with the stress on the fourth-last syllable), as in "Комитет государственной безопасности", compared to other languages?

[Misha]

Yes, Sandro, the "ро [-ro-]" is the stressed syllable.

[SANDRO43]

Yes, Sandro, the "ро [-ro-]" is the stressed syllable.

Thanks Misha, I think I got that, but how about my question on Russian syllable stress ?

[mendeleyev]

Sandro, I'm hoping that Misha and the native speakers will weigh in on your question.

I'm certainly not qualified to give a credible answer to the specific question and can only tell you something you know already--that unlike Polish or French for example, Russian employs both free stress and moving stress which allows stress to move from syllables and cases (слова/слова and место/местa). I know that you understand those concepts. Allowing these types of stress means that students must learn the stress of individual words rather than relying solely on patterns or rules.

The few rules or patterns I've personally encountered include the letter ё which is always stressed, only one syllable per word is stressed, and the stress is placed on vowels.

There are some adjectives that seem to often have the stress on the last syllable, but as to 4th syllable patterns I can't answer...

[Misha]

The  Russian Wikipedia sums it up nicely:


"В русском языке ударный гласный отличается от безударного силовыми, количественными и качественными характеристиками; тонического ударения нет (но высота звука может измениться в момент ударения). В среднем ударный гласный в 1,5-2 раза длиннее безударного.

Ударение может стоять на любом слоге и любой части слов (пра́вило, а́збука, буржуази́я); в разных грамматических формах одного и того же слова ударение может переходить с одного слога на другой (нога́ — но́гу, при́нял — приняла́); такими приёмами пользовались многие поэты XIX века. Тем не менее, есть определённые закономерности: так, в русском языке (в отличие от близкого ему современного церковнославянского) не может быть ударным окончание «-ый»/«-ий», что приводит к широкому распространению неверного произнесения некоторых монашеских имён, которые в церковном употреблении традиционно произносятся в соответствии с церковнославянской орфоэпией (например, ударение в имени Алекси́йрусскоязычный инстинктивно будет склонен смещать на второй слог).

Некоторые сложные слова, а также слова с приставками анти-, меж-, около-, контр-, сверх-, супер-, экс- и др. могут иметь, кроме основного, побочное (или второстепенное) ударение. Побочное ударение обычно по порядку бывает первым (ближе к началу слова), а основное — вторым (ближе к концу слова): кля́твопреступле́ние, о́колозе́мный, ви́це-президе́нт.

Также, во всех словах, где присутствует буква ё, ударение обязательно падает на неё. Исключением являются заимствованные (напр., амёбиа́з) и сложные, составные слова (напр., трёхъя́русный).В русском языке нет единых правил ударения, для выяснения принятого и допустимых вариантов для конкретной формы слова, можно обратиться к орфоэпическим словарям или специализированным словарям ударений[5]."

The  answer to your other question, Sandro, would be no.

[ghost of moon goddess]

So it's негазиPOванная.

For advanced learners of Russian: Word stress rule 

When the word газированная/негазированная is used as an adjective, the stress always falls on the syllable РО.

But when the word газированная is used as a participle, variation in stress is possible. In the given word form the stress may fall either on  ЗИ or РО syllables. (The participle comes from the verb гаЗИровать).

For example,

Вода, газИрОванная природным путем — water carbonated naturally.

[SANDRO43]

The Russian Wikipedia sums it up nicely

Not particularly helpful re my specific question:

Stress can stand on any syllable, and any part of words ... in different grammatical forms of the same word stress can switch from one style to another ...

Some compound words and words with prefixes анти-, меж-, около-, контр-, сверх-, супер-, экс- , and others might have, except for the main and auxiliary (or secondary) stress. Secondary stress is usually on the order of the first (closest to the beginning of the word), and the main - the second (closer to the end

In Russian, there are no uniform rules of stress, to determine the accepted and acceptable options for a particular form of words that can refer to pronouncing dictionary or a specialized dictionary of stress

The  answer to your other question, Sandro, would be no.

Well, Russian is the only language where I heard occasional stress on the 4th-last syllable, except possibly for German due to its capacity for forming very long compound words . English, Latin and Asiatic languages, Greek, and Arabic at most stress the 3rd-last syllable.

[ghost of moon goddess]

So it's негазиPOванная.

Is it my impression, or Russian has a larger number of antepreparaoxitonic words (i.e. with the stress on the fourth-last syllable), as in "Комитет государственной безопасности", compared to other languages?

Sandro, I'm not sure I understand how you divided the word государственной up into it syllable components 

The correct devision is as follows: го-су-ДАР-ствен-ной 

It's a  five-syllable word that has the stress on the 3rd syllable.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, I'm not sure I understand how you divided the word государственной up into it syllable components . The correct devision is as follows: го-су-ДАР-ствен-ной  ;)It's a  five-syllable word that has the stress on the 3rd syllable.

I understand your puzzlement, in Latin languages a vowel diphthong is considered to be 2 vowels , hence 6 syllables in:

го-су-ДАР-ствен-но-й

However, let's consider its feminine form (or other similarly longer declension derivatives):

Го-су-дарст-вен-на-я

How many syllables there (I'd count 6 again with more assuredness, or even 7 Latin-wise), and where does its stress fall ?

In English the syllable boundary is considered to be determined by voice emission, which is fine since most of its written vowel diphthongs are pronounced as a single vowel anyway, due to the vagaries of its spelling.

IINM, long words in German retain most of the original stress of their composing words, albeit in a reduced way (secondary stress) for the last word, e.g.:

zu-sAm-men-stOß-en  =  to thrust togeher, i.e. to collide
(5 syllables, main stress on its 4th last syllable, weaker stress on its 2nd last syllable)

So it woulnd't be quite the same thing as in Russian, unless I'm mistaken.

Anyway, it's just an amateur linguist's curiosity .

[mendeleyev]

Ghost of mood goddess and Misha, thank you for the assistance. 

[ghost of moon goddess]

I understand your puzzlement, in Latin languages a vowel diphthong is considered to be 2 vowels , hence 6 syllables in:

го-су-ДАР-ствен-но-й

However, let's consider its feminine form (or other similarly longer declension derivatives):

Го-су-дарст-вен-на-я

How many syllables there (I'd count 6 again with more assuredness, or even 7 Latin-wise), and where does its stress fall ?

In English the syllable boundary is considered to be determined by voice emission, which is fine since most of its written vowel diphthongs are pronounced as a single vowel anyway, due to the vagaries of its spelling.

IINM, long words in German retain most of the original stress of their composing words, albeit in a reduced way (secondary stress) for the last word, e.g.:

zu-sAm-men-stOß-en  =  to thrust togeher, i.e. to collide
(5 syllables, main stress on its 4th last syllable, weaker stress on its 2nd last syllable)

So it woulnd't be quite the same thing as in Russian, unless I'm mistaken.

Anyway, it's just an amateur linguist's curiosity .

The adjectives государственный (masc.), государственная (fem.), государственное (neut.) have fixed stress - always falling on the syllable ДА, in any declension case, btw.

In the Russian language, each syllable contains one vowel, so the «Latin-wise» devision is incorrect because of Й being the consonant letter.

When forming the margins of the syllable in Russian, be aware that Russian has a considerable variety of admissible consonant blends/clusters in the onset, with some  possible complex onsets having up to four consonants at the beginning of the syllable. Onsetless syllables are also allowed for.

With respect to the compound words. Each of the composing word retains each original stress, normally the stress pattern is as follows: weaker stress on the first word's stressed syllable and stronger on the stressed syllable of the second word, (which is almost always the main word)

Example: ОбщегосудАрставенный (with sufficiently stronger stress on A)

Ghost of mood goddess and Misha, thank you for the assistance. 

My pleasure 

Mendeleev and Sandro, maybe it would be wise to start a  «Language» topic to address all language related questions, issues, etc, in order to avoid righteous indignation of those RWD members who are not interested in comprehending the tricky relationship between Russian nouns declension and stress variation pattern, in which the noun itself "defines" whether it will result in its all declined forms having fixed stem stress or in forms having ending stress ? 
I'm serious!

[Anotherkiwi]

...Mendeleev and Sandro, maybe it would be wise to start a  «Language» topic to address all language related questions, issues, etc, in order to avoid righteous indignation of those RWD members who are not interested in comprehending the tricky relationship between Russian nouns declension and stress variation pattern, in which the noun itself "defines" whether it will result in its all declined forms having fixed stem stress or in forms having ending stress ? 
I'm serious!

This is all just too stressful for me! 

[Chemist]

A quick vocabulary question since we're on the topic:

Would газированная вода refer to all carbonated beverages such as soda or Coca Cola.  Or does it only refer to carbonated water?

[mendeleyev]

Hi Chemist, hope all is well.


So you wanted to throw us a curve ball! газированная вода of course refers to water when those two words are placed together. However there is a term, содовая вода (soda water) which describes club soda, etc.

Other terms that I've encountered is апельсиновая содовая вода (orange soda) and Содовая вода лимонная (lemon flavour with carbonation). I think (and that could be dangerous) that those are most often in reference to mixed drinks, juices and flavoured waters.

Coca Cola of Russia offers a line of lightly carbonated fruit flavoured waters among their Содовая вода products:




















 

[mendeleyev]

Ghost of moon goddess said:

Mendeleev and Sandro, maybe it would be wise to start a  «Language» topic to address all language related questions, issues, etc, in order to avoid righteous indignation of those RWD members who are not interested in comprehending the tricky relationship between Russian nouns declension and stress variation pattern, in which the noun itself "defines" whether it will result in its all declined forms having fixed stem stress or in forms having ending stress ? 
I'm serious!

As I learn from you often, it would be fun for you to start the thread and allow native and expert speakers to chime in as well. What do you think?

[Chemist]

Thanks Mendelyev.

It's always nice to know that my confusion is justified 

[ghost of moon goddess]

As I learn from you often, it would be fun for you to start the thread and allow native and expert speakers to chime in as well. What do you think?

I think that my schedule for the coming months will leave me with very little time to spend here 

[SANDRO43]

Coca Cola of Russia offers a line of lightly carbonated fruit flavoured waters among their Содовая вода products:

While it's easy to guess about the other 3, what does the Бурати́но taste of, considering it's inspired by Pinocchio, a burattino (wooden puppet)? Sawdust ?

[ghost of moon goddess]

It has a sour-sweet-bitter taste, and according to the humorous slogan used in the 90s, "Буратино" is reconstituted natural  extract of (the flesh of) wooden homunculi.
(I heard of sweet and bitter "male homunculi", but never of sour ones  )

[SANDRO43]

(I heard of sweet and bitter "male homunculi", but never of sour ones  )

Read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, and youl'll find that his dwarfs are often sour .

[ghost of moon goddess]

Read Terry Pratchett's Discworld books, and youl'll find that his dwarfs are often sour .

Is the dwarfishness to blame for their sourness ? 

Is it my impression, or Russian has a larger number of antepreparaoxitonic words (i.e. with the stress on the fourth-last syllable), compared to other languages?

Sandro, I have got the impression that you are right, as ever 

Here are two more (an-te-pre-pa-ra-o-xi-to-nic ?) words to add to your collection 
кАр-ли-ко-вость (dwarfishness)
кАр-ли-ко-вый (dwarfish)

Speaking frankly, I'm not certain that they are antepreparaoxitonic, because of their stressed fourth-last syllables being also their stressed first syllables. 

[SANDRO43]

Is the dwarfishness to blame for their sourness ? 

I think it's probably due to their spending most of their time underground, mining for iron (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Dwarfs). They are also very quarrelsome and apt to throw their axes at the slightest perceived provocation .

Speaking frankly, I'm not certain that they are antepreparaoxitonic, because of their stressed fourth-last syllables being also their stressed first syllables. 

Being baritonic does not exclude also being antepreparaoxitonic . BTW, I made that last one up , since there are no such stressed words in Greek and they only considered:

- Oxitonics: last syllable
- Paraoxitonics: 2nd last syllable
- Preparaoxitonics: 3rd last syllable
- Baritonics: 1st syllable

This classification was related to the feet of their various poetry meters (iamb, trochee, dactyl, anapest, spondee, etc. etc.)