How are FSU women personality-wise and about the world and other races?

[Eduard]

Sun, my answer is- American individualism.
( I actually don't know how RW are more materialistic than AW. HOW?)
Ed, what do you think as you know both sides?

Hi Doll, I think that American women are not that different from Russian women. We are all the same species after all. It is natural for a woman of any ethnicity or culture to give preference to a man who will provide security and stability for her and her children. I've seen incredibly, almost pathologically greedy American women and I've seen very selfless and giving American women. I've seen exactly the same extremes among Russian and Ukrainian women. So in that regard I really don't think that FSU women are that different from AW.


The only big difference between FSUW and AW is in the culture of dating and relationship.  In my experience, AW have a lot more choices of decent local men compared to FSU women, and their attitude toward men and relationships is very similar to Russian men's attitude toward women in the FSU (They don't much care if a relationship ends because there are 5 more women right around the corner just waiting for them to become single). I personally think it's all about the law of supply and demand. Russian women seem to want to hold on to a relationship a lot more than AW because they know how hard it is going to be to find another decent man in the FSU. While AW, just like Russian men know that if she becomes single she can meet 5 other guys the next day who will be willing to date her and more.


I was helping a friend (a nice looking 29 yo single RW) several months back and placed an ad on POF in Tampa area. By the time I uploaded the last photo I had over 30 messages in the mail box. By the end of the day there were a few hundred messages and by the end of the first week there were messages from over a thousand men. Most of the guys who wrote were nice looking, professional men. Sure there were a few knuckleheads but not too many.
What I'm trying to say is that a decent looking, in shape, young enough woman has almost too many choices of eligible men here. It is hard for her to make a choice and settle down with one man. Same exact thing happens with Russian men - they have so many choices of nice looking, decent women that many RM (and some AM who moved to Russia [hi Chivo  ] ) have a hard time settling down with just one woman because there are so many other options available to them. Therefore it seems to me that Russian women's expectations aren't as high while they are willing to put a lot more effort into a relationship. But off course it's a general statement and things may be different on an individual basis.

[Doll]

Then I'll ask the "born American" members, "How are RW MORE materialistic than AW"? Just because I read it here all the time.
In my understanding, AW are just walking calculators))))

[ML]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

I am not going to repeat the hundreds of examples that have been posted here for several years, but they are in many categories such as looking for designer labels, not wanting to be seen wearing certain clothes or going to certain places, desiring a more expensive X, Y, Z because the neighbors or sister-in-law has it, etc., etc.

Can anyone counter with a specific example where an AW or AM also shows such tendencies . . . sure.

So everyone can believe what they want.  I have nothing to sell and no pride to try to protect; so I can truthfully say, FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

[Eduard]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

I am not going to repeat the hundreds of examples that have been posted here for several years, but they are in many categories such as looking for designer labels, not wanting to be seen wearing certain clothes or going to certain places, desiring a more expensive X, Y, Z because the neighbors or sister-in-law has it, etc., etc.

Can anyone counter with a specific example where an AW or AM also shows such tendencies . . . sure.

So everyone can believe what they want.  I have nothing to sell and no pride to try to protect; so I can truthfully say, FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

yes, I can... I watched my ex-wife's aunt and daddy grabbing everything they could as fast as they could fighting for little things when her grand dad died. It was such a pathetic sight, particularly that this was going on right after his funeral. And by the way my ex was a WASP from IL... You are way off base, ML. Sure it's easy to say that " The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label", however this statement is definitely not true in my case. I always call it as I see it, no matter how it affects my business.

[newjason]

Yhen I'll ask the "born American" members, "How are RW MORE materialistic than AW"? Juts because I read it here all the time.
In my understanding, AW are just walking calculators))))

LOL walking calculators. 

This is a slippery slope ...

One must take into account that the small percentage of RW that WM's will encounter in this dating/marraige game are more motivated to climb the socal and economic ladder than the vast majority of RW who WM will never meet as they are not interested in this sating /marriage game.
So what WM may be seeing is the very small numbers of RW who may in fact be materialistic and social climbers, gold diggers , etc etc. Leaving your homeland to marry a foreign person who you spend little time with and know very little about is a risky move. There has to be something to gain by doing this , otherwise no one would do it, right?  So, by design, the type if RW the WM involved in this dating/marrage game will meet will be looking for .... Sugar..

At home the WM is exposed to a much larger percentage of women and there will seem to be far fewer of these type of women because of sheer numbers.


Next

So, my question is:  why did not a single US friend/classmate (with whom I was incredibly close with), not come visit me as I lay there alone, a little scared and sick? 

First of all, you were 10.
Second, you said that on this trip they kept you students busy morning with school, then sking in the evening. 
Third, you spent a week getting cozy with the foreign girls. 

Looking at this from the other side,  how good of an american friend were you to the  other students when by going and getting all cozy with the belgium girls? You pretty much forgot about them americans while with the cozy girls.  So, you are so shocked when they forgot about you?
 Dude,  when you are 10, a week is a lifetime. A lot of things happen in that amount of time at that age.  And time moves really really slowly when you are sick and alone.

If you were my best friend at 10, and we were incredibly close, and you ran off and got all cozy with a couple girls for a week, I would not have come to visit you either. Incredibly close or not. You changed your friends, and got cozy with the locals. That's a reflection on you, not your american classmates. If you had been closer to the Americans for that week, I can promise they would have been there to visit you.
With friendship comes loyalty,  you can't expect loyalty from others , when you don't have it yourself.
For you to base your whole adult life on this is a bit extreme , don't you think?  The problem you perceived was one you created, not them. Now you devalue an entire country and it's people because no one ever told you that you made your bed and had to lay in it.  wow

Think I am being mean? Still think the Americans were wrong not to come see you?  Try going and getting  cozy with a couple of girls for a week now.  Then become ill. Lay in the hospital and see if your wife comes to visit you...

[Eduard]

LOL walking calculators. 

This is a slippery slope ...

One must take into account that the small percentage of RW that WM's will encounter in this dating/marraige game are more motivated to climb the socal and economic ladder than the vast majority of RW who WM will never meet as they are not interested in this sating /marriage game.
So what WM may be seeing is the very small numbers of RW who may in fact be materialistic and social climbers, gold diggers , etc etc. Leaving your homeland to marry a foreign person who you spend little time with and know very little about is a risky move. There has to be something to gain by doing this , otherwise no one would do it, right?  So, by design, the type if RW the WM involved in this dating/marrage game will meet will be looking for .... Sugar..

It could be that, Jason, and also I think that a particular type of man will attract particular type of women because of the method (what he says, what he does) he uses to get them interested.

[Belvis]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

I have only superficial knowledge of AW, or to be honest I don't know them. Taking as the basis the ML's statement above and what I know about FSUW  I'll try to draw my conclusion about AW.
An AW considers a good man to be the first priority in her life (after her kids). She easily may abandon her career and move with her man in any place of the world like small village at Alaska. She wants to make money only to support her eventful cultural life. In some cases she works to provide her purposeless husband for his spiritual activity, but more often AW has to work because her man or ex fails to supply  the maintenance for children. AW doesn't like to cook from scratch  because it is time consuming, she would like to read a book instead. AW is not interested in designer clothes, her sexy mood and spiritual mind make her irresistible  for men anyway. She does not expect the gifts, she prefers to  give presents.
So it's not a surprise that AW are in shortage.

[Doll]

 

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

   

How exactly are RW  more materialistic?
I am not the one who "sells" Russian brides. I am a Russian woman. have been here more then 10 years- I am sure AW are times more materialistic.
So. how? What exactly shows it?

[Doll]

I have only superficial knowledge of AW, or to be honest I don't know them. Taking as the basis the ML's statement above and what I know about FSUW  I'll try to draw my conclusion about AW.
An AW considers a good man to be the first priority in her life (after her kids). She easily may abandon her career and move with her man in any place of the world like small village at Alaska. She wants to make money only to support her eventful cultural life. In some cases she works to provide her purposeless husband for his spiritual activity, but more often AW has to work because her man or ex fails to supply  the maintenance for children. AW doesn't like to cook from scratch  because it is time consuming, she would like to read a book instead. AW is not interested in designer clothes, her sexy mood and spiritual mind make her irresistible  for men anyway. She does not expect the gifts, she prefers to  give presents.
So it's not a surprise that AW are in shortage.

AW?

[Doll]

Belvis, I see you're Russian. Look- you are on the board of AM who are looking RW to marry. They do it because of some traites that INCLUDE
being "family oriented". Same time they call RW "materialistic".
So I ask HOW.

[Jumper]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

I am not going to repeat the hundreds of examples that have been posted here for several years, but they are in many categories such as looking for designer labels, not wanting to be seen wearing certain clothes or going to certain places, desiring a more expensive X, Y, Z because the neighbors or sister-in-law has it, etc., etc.

Can anyone counter with a specific example where an AW or AM also shows such tendencies . . . sure.

So everyone can believe what they want.  I have nothing to sell and no pride to try to protect; so I can truthfully say, FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

Significantly more? based on examples posted here ? by mostly men in an  MOB endeavor gone sour?
and half what you show as example is a perception of cultured or status ,not exactly material things?


I like how anyone with a different opinion than yours,  or experience simply is denying reality.. LOL!


ML significantly more , is pretty sweeping.
I have no agenda either, and have lived all over the world.

Certain parts of the US are more materialistic than other regions or cities?
certain regions just within a given city?
Certain parts of the FSU are as well.There are many different sub cultures ad social pressures in every country, even within the poor ,middle class and more wealthy?
Even education and occupation play a general factor.

I've seen no real difference in materialistic mentalities if you compare similar backgrounds.

You find a difference ,ok?
but you cant assume everyone  that doesn't,  has some agenda.

I've been  married twice to RW,  both very different. This would be expected in AW as well of course. Some men and women are very materialistic, others not at all.
Neither RW would ever say or do any of what you mentioned as examples here.Both enjoy a normal life, arnt worried about status, will dress down, or up, with no problem.
 and most often find great enjoyment in finding some normal item at a big discount,or some inexpensive cafe with good food and a cool location or ambiance.
Same as  most RW I know in the FSU. Some are very materialistic.. and as you mentioned I sure know equal numbers  of AW examples from LA , Dallas' north side or Chicago.


Generally big city dwellers all around the world, trend towards that trait ,more than rural people, so if a person wanted to make an FSU generality , to me it seems more accurate simply to note more of the population reside in larger cities, so more of the popualtion may have more materialistic mentalities..
even at that
i just wouldn't think significantly more.

What American advertisement doesn't aim right for our rather infamous culture of materialistic tendencies?

[Jumper]

How exactly are RW  more materialistic?
I am not the one who "sells" Russian brides. I am a Russian woman. have been here more then 10 years- I am sure AW are times more materialistic.
So. how? What exactly shows it?

Nothing, I don't think they *generally *are.


but maybe its just who I've hung out with.. lol


I am aware that a materialistic woman will most naturally avoid me like the plague, and vice versa.

[Doll]

Yet, what is "materialistic"? Just curious. She buys\doesn't buy much?
She saves\ doesn't save? She is looking for an expensive\cheap stuff?
She wants \doesn't care her husband to earn more?
How are Russians materialistic? Or any people?

[Eduard]

Significantly more? based on examples posted here ? by mostly men in an  MOB endeavor gone sour?
and half what you show as example is a perception of cultured or status ,not exactly material things?


I like how anyone with a different opinion than yours,  or experience simply is denying reality.. LOL!


ML significantly more , is pretty sweeping.
I have no agenda either, and have lived all over the world.

Certain parts of the US are more materialistic than other regions or cities?
certain regions just within a given city?
Certain parts of the FSU are as well.There are many different sub cultures ad social pressures in every country, even within the poor ,middle class and more wealthy?
Even education and occupation play a general factor.

I've seen no real difference in materialistic mentalities if you compare similar backgrounds.

You find a difference ,ok?
but you cant assume everyone  that doesn't,  has some agenda.

I've been  married twice to RW,  both very different. This would be expected in AW as well of course. Some men and women are very materialistic, others not at all.
Neither RW would ever say or do any of what you mentioned as examples here.Both enjoy a normal life, arnt worried about status, will dress down, or up, with no problem.
 and most often find great enjoyment in finding some normal item at a big discount,or some inexpensive cafe with good food and a cool location or ambiance.
Same as  most RW I know in the FSU. Some are very materialistic.. and as you mentioned I sure know equal numbers  of AW examples from LA , Dallas' north side or Chicago.


Generally big city dwellers all around the world, trend towards that trait ,more than rural people, so if a person wanted to make an FSU generality , to me it seems more accurate simply to note more of the population reside in larger cities, so more of the popualtion may have more materialistic mentalities..
even at that
i just wouldn't think significantly more.

What American advertisement doesn't aim right for our rather infamous culture of materialistic tendencies?

+1

[Jumper]

Yet, what is "materialistic"? Just curious. She buys\doesn't buy much?
She saves\ doesn't save? She is looking for an expensive\cheap stuff?
She wants \doesn't care her husband to earn more?
How are Russians materialistic? Or any people?

It generally means a person who is overly concerned with material things.
Having them , acquiring them, or even  not having them, defines them, who they are.
What car, what house, what clothes, or what restaurant they are seen at.. etc.

it could also be something like a * big concern* that if a dress is beautiful,and well made, but not a designer label , its not interesting.

but its generally meant as something a bit deeper.

A person who likes or enjoys the finer things in life, is not just automatically viewed as very materialistic.
If those things are the only ,or main ,concern to them, then they would get that materialistic label?

[sund]

Hi Yooshi, ML, newjason and The Natural:  Appreciate your thoughts.  I came on this site to share my life's impressions with gentlemen that are genuinely interested in meeting a lady from Eastern Europe and Yooshi's question about the FSU ladies personalities compelled me to participate in this discussion.

I would like to add some more information in regards to ML's and newjason's responses.  ML, you stated that you have heard of similar stories with a Belgian man not being visited by his countrymen.  In this regard, I just want to say that I am sharing a personal experience rather than a story I heard about.  I believe that personal experiences have much more value than a third part source and by your posts, I have to say that you have your own experiences of travel which vastly differ from someone telling you a story that they heard.

And newjason, your insight into child psychology was an interesting read.  Perhaps you are a medical professional and have the education to make remarks about the impressions of a 10 year old.  Even if you are not a professional, I should add some more information that will quell your thoughts of why no US friends visited me in the infirmary.  1.  I wasn't the only child that was getting "cozy" with other Belgian children.  When our French teacher asked for volunteers, I was one of many who were seated with our new foreign friends, I just happened to be paired with these sweet girls.  2.  And I had mentioned in my response, it was not something I pondered as a 10 year old.  I said, that in my later years, as a young adult and further, is when I connected how odd it was that I was not visited by any US friends.

My whole purpose in sharing such an elementary experience, was to share with American men, my own impressions of Europeans, that started early with me in my life.

So, I believe I need to continue so as to construct a pattern or trends that I mentioned before that are fundamental in nature with Europeans, and the main reason why I have sought a European wife.

Please understand that the stories that I will share with you are relationships that were developed from "natural" meetings.  I have not met my girlfriends through writing or agencies, so I believe I am giving you information that comes from genuine, "home cooked" experiences.  I am on this site only to help, not to hinder or counteract other gentlemen's experiences because everyone has different views and stories to tell.  These are mine from having personally lived them.

During my 3 year tour of duty in Germany in the 1980's, I had the good fortune to date two German girls and two French girls.  I was in my mid to late 20's.  I got lucky to meet another soldier in my unit who was equally eager to go out and meet the local German's in the pursuit to learn German, make friends and get to know their culture.  Although I had to spend about 230 days in the field, as these were the Cold War days, my buddy and I used every available minute to spend our time with the Germans.  In a very short time, we developed extremely warm and fun relationships, starting off in the local pub.  My buddy and I learned to speak fluent German, which as anybody knows, warms the heart of a host nation. 

I spent my first New Year's in Germany in January 1984, and I have to say, it was the insight of greater things to come.  We had an incredibly great time, having a party at the home of one of our German friends.  It was here as well, where our friends invited us over at Christmas for a "fondue" dinner.  This led to our close relationships and I found my German friends to be sincere, caring, fun and loyal.  I would like to add at this point an advanced summary:

Of the 4 pairs of couples that I met and knew for my 3 years, (and these were 19 year old kids, mind you), these couples remained loyal to each other for the entire time.  As a matter of fact, I reunited with them 5 years ago, as they surprised me when I went back to visit.  I had not seen them in about 18 years and was impressed that they were all still together.  We were the same group of laughing people, just older with kids.  I am mentioning this to impress upon you their sense of loyalty and commitment.

One of the great stories I want to share with you in regard to romance comes from France.  I was handpicked to attend an elite school taught by the French Foreign Legion.  If anybody knows anything about these guys, they are real bad asses and they are the real deal.  This was a 4 week school and 40 men from my battalion got the lucky call.  It was an experience that will live with me forever in terms of toughness, grit and honor.  After a week of grueling training, the French personnel gave us the weekend off.  That was surprising in contrast to US military schools of this caliber, that don't give you liberty.  As I mentioned before, I spoke fluent German and my Belgian French was an additional perk.  Therefore, I was able to communicate with our French counterparts and establish some friendly relations.  A group of us went into the small town, a fishing village, to do what all GI's like to do and that is, to drink!  We found a watering hole on the small wharf and drowned ourselves in great French beer and to kick back.  After several hours and a big bar tab, we thought we would take a walking tour of this village.  Walking down the cobblestone street, I noticed a store that was opened and it happened to be a hair salon.  Inside, as I was walking by, was an incredibly gorgeous young lady, cutting a customer's hair.  I felt brave and told the group that I was going in and they groaned and laughed because they thought I was joking.  I wasn't and moseying up through the door and very quickly was met with her quizzical eyes.  I introduced myself in French and asked for her name.  At this same time, my fellow soldiers took my cue and entered this small salon, which really caused her eyes to open widely, when suddenly 8 strange men show up.  Somehow I was able to absorb that huge interuption and quickly told her that we were Americans training at the local military base.  I then asked her if she would like to join me and my friends for drinks later when she got off of work.  She agreed and said she would bring a friend.  She also asked if not so many men would be present and I agreed that the crowd was too large. 

I was a newly appointed Sergeant and had some authority to tell the the lower ranks to hit the road, that the future was only for Sergeant's and above.  They groaned and whined, but took a taxi back to the base.  In the meantime, my two fellow US soldiers and two fellow French counterparts headed off to the bar/restaurant that my lovely gal had told me where she would meet us.

True to her word, a couple of hours later, she showed up with her friend.  Everyone was shy at first, but the ice began to melt and my girl suggested that we go to a billiards club.  We drank some more, and pretty soon with the alcohol and good times, we found ourselves in a corner of the bar having a great make out session.

We then went to a disco, where everyone had a great time dancing the night away.  My lady and I spent some private time in her car and she took me to the beach where the romance blossomed with the waves crashing onto the Brittany coast and her and I becoming intimate.  That night, somewhere around 4 am (the bars close late in Europe!), we all somehow stuffed into her Renault and she took us back to the base.  She invited me to come with her on Sunday for a walk, near some Roman ruins and we were smitten with each other.  She was about 19 and I was almost 28.  There was never a mention about age.  The biggest thing discussed was why wasn't I married and that I should be married.  (We have all read about the FSU wanting to be married at younger ages than US ladies, so it was interesting that she insisted that I should be married).  I actually was separated because of my long tour in Germany, that probably caused my US wife (who stayed behind due to her career), to find warmth with another man, and ultimately freed me to enjoy my relationships with my 4 Euro girlfriends.

The next weekend was just as great, as she picked me and my French counterpart (he had hooked up with the other girl), and we went out for more drinking and dancing.  During this second weekend, I must have told her that I had a birthday coming up the following Saturday.  She went hysterical with glee.  Euro folks and Latin folks (I am Hispanic), really love to celebrate brithdays.  They go ape crazy celebrating birthdays.  Its a real big deal.  And I was the lucky lottery winner because she told me that she wanted me to invite 8 guys from my unit, because she was taking us all out for my birthday.

That following Saturday late afternoon, there she was in her Renault and a taxi.  We piled in the cars.  Now I have to tell you, I was feeling pretty cool at this time.  Here was this incredibly gorgeous lady (she was beauty queen from her region), not just taking me out, but 8 of my buddies.  She took us to this French restaurant where we feasted (imagine not eating from the mess hall!), on crepes, wine, beer and more crepes!  At the end of this magical dinner, the waiter brought the bill and she snatched it away.... I pleaded with her to let us pay and she firmly insisted, "Non!" and that was the end of that, she paid for the entire bill, the taxi and presented me with my gift.  It was incredibly warm and loving.

After that, she took us to a different disco in another town, and we rocked the place.  When the local population found out we were American, it added another level of frenzy to the place.  Some French girl had started to talk to me on the dance floor, while I was dancing (in Europe, its cool to dance by yourself, you don't need a partner), and I had not got 10 words out, when I got snatched by my girl.  She gave me a good chewing.  I had no clue what she was saying but I am sure it had something to do with kicking me in the balls if I talked to any other women.  I didn't mind, I was just being friendly, but I got the point.

That night, we took the boys back to the base and my girl took me to her apartment.  That was a great birthday!  The next morning was Sunday, and we woke up and she cooked a delicious breakfast.  After breakfast, she ran hot water in the bath and proceeded to bathe me!  It was intensely beautiful.  I had never been treated like this by any US woman.  She got in the bath with me, sitting behind me and washed my back and we just sat back together; I was in heaven.  Later that night, she cooked me a delicious steak dinner with those tasty French fries and salad.  I spent that Sunday night with her as I couldn't leave her and she didn't want me to.  I had to wake up at 0400, because I needed to get back to the base.  We had an 8 km run that we had to do, with full equipment and weapons.  I didn't want her to have to wake up and drive me back, so I ran the 5 k's back to the base in the dark.  When I arrived, the platoon was waking up and I cracked up because they all were wondering where the hell I had been all weekend and they were whining because the hot water had gone out.  I just smiled and got ready for our 8 km platoon run.  It was a competition between us and the other French companies.  I am proud to say that our US platoon came out ahead, but only by a few seconds.  We had to finish together, so it was a team effort.

Catherine (there, I told you her name), and I had one last Saturday left, because we were all leaving for Germany on Sunday.  We graduated on Saturday afternoon and proudly accepted our French Commando badges.  We earned them, finishing the night before from a 2 day, 60 mile road march, inflicted with ambushes, skirmishes, and a 10 mile Zodiac boat paddle. 

So, the gang and I headed out for one last night of celebration.  It was my last night with Catherine and she was not in a good mood, due to my leaving.  She mostly cried and we hugged alot.  The next morning we took the long 15 hour bus ride back to our base in Germany.  A lot of the guys commented how they were going to miss this region, because here we were warmly welcomed.  The French in this region, had fond memories of US soldiers and how we liberated them from the Nazi's. 

Catherine and I wrote letters and postcards back and forth as much was humanly possible.  A few months later, I requested a 4 day pass, and drove the 12 hours back to her hometown and surprised her at her work.  She was shocked and she left work immediately to take me to the beach where we had a picnic.  I only could spend one more day, as I had to use the last day, to travel back to Germany.

Due to the lack of effective communication (letters only, sprinkled with some phone calls which were very expensive on my salary), we slowly drifted apart.  We both understood that time and distance was not our friend but promised to remember our love in this fabulous Spring of 1986.

18 years later, I traveled back to this little village, not knowing why exactly.  Instead of finding Catherine, I found her best friend.  She now owned a restaurant with her second husband.  She couldn't believe that I had come back.  She called Catherine and I was able to talk to her briefly by phone.  It was a short hello as she was with her husband and naturally, could not expand our conversation.  At least she knows that I came back.  Her friend presented me with some Paella and I spent time with her and her four beautiful grown kids. 

When it came time for me to leave, as I had to drive to Germany to see my old friends, the entire restaurant of family and patrons, came out in the chill air and stood there waving and saying, "Joyeax Noel," or Merry Christmas.  I will never forget that this group of about 20 people had stood on the restaurant stoop to wish me Bon Voyage.  It was a sweet moment and just another impression of the sweetness in European people.

So, gentlemen, I realize that this was a long post, but I had to get this out there.  Its not something I should carry inside of me.  I only wanted you to read the reality of one man's experience, so that perhaps one person reading this, can find a glimpse of the inside and spirit of a culture that has been established longer and more rooted than the young time of USA.

I have had the good fortune to live in both worlds, to speak all languages, and engage in long term relationships in all countries mentioned.  My preference for love is with the Europeans and its due to my imprinted impressions while a child, a teenager, a young man and now, an experienced older man.  I am equally comfortable in Europe, as I am in Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco or Georgia, Texas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Ohio and Tennessee (all states that I have lived extensively in).

For the future, I would like to share my romantic relationship that I was endeared to with a young lady from Moldova.  I met her through a military friend that was stationed at our US Embassy.  We dated for nearly 5 years, and so I traveled there approximately 12 times.  Bottom line upfront:  we didn't close the deal due to my worries and fears that I could be deployed from retirement to Iraq/Afghanistan, and did not want my lady to have to go through the anguish of losing me in combat.  Again, our communication from this theater to her in Moldova would have been sketchy and if anyone out there has had a loved one in combat, you know that communication is mandatory for that loved one to survive each day from worry/anxiety/ and hope.

So, for now, I will push pause and continue at a later date.  I wish everyone all the success in the world to find their dream girl no matter where she is from.

Ciou,,,,,,Sun

[ghost of moon goddess]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

I am not going to repeat the hundreds of examples that have been posted here for several years, but they are in many categories such as looking for designer labels, not wanting to be seen wearing certain clothes or going to certain places, desiring a more expensive X, Y, Z because the neighbors or sister-in-law has it, etc., etc.

Can anyone counter with a specific example where an AW or AM also shows such tendencies . . . sure.

So everyone can believe what they want.  I have nothing to sell and no pride to try to protect; so I can truthfully say, FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

What is quite understandable is that this discussion cannot progress further unless  it is clear that everyone concerned is trying to be dispassionate and objective. The more objectivity --- the crucial prerequisite for such discussions/topics --- slips away, the more «Poster» factor comes into matters. And the more I, for one, am uninterested.

[Muzh]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

<snip>
So everyone can believe what they want.  I have nothing to sell and no pride to try to protect; so I can truthfully say, FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.

That is the most absurd comment I've ever read here.

Here is my experience. Actually, one of my firsts as explained by my late American bud who lived in Kharkiv.

If you come to visit there will be a party. They will bring out the best money can buy. They'll even use the rent and groceries money just to celebrate your visit.

Show me one American that will do that. Just one.

[Eduard]

As a 'born American' man I will repeat my earlier statements, which echo those of many others, that FSUW are significantly more materialistic than AW.  And FSUM are more materialistic than AM.

Anyone who has been to both areas of the world knows it.  The only persons here who won't admit it are some who are in the business of selling FSUW and some FSUW who don't want that label.  Quite understandable.

Jumper, Muzh, since according to ML's logic you guys are in the business of selling FSUW I'd like to know what's the going rate?

[ML]

Jumper, Muzh, since according to ML's logic you guys are in the business of selling FSUW I'd like to know what's the going rate?

How about this story that I told one gal's sister; and that has been told by many  persons before.

"When we were in Egypt, a man offered me 2 camels for your sister.  I replied indignantly . . . I would never sell this woman for 2 camels.  (pause) The price will be 5 camels."

Both the gal and her sister laughed.

[Jumper]

Jumper, Muzh, since according to ML's logic you guys are in the business of selling FSUW I'd like to know what's the going rate?

lol , i'll say i think MLs point should be  considered ,as i have seen  RW like that,
but to me they often belonged to a very specific group of the general culture.
Kind of like the funny classes *teaching* how to be a sterva?
Its attended by a very specific set of big city devs, and not what the average russian family girl aspires to,or acts like.
The agency listing *way* that foreign  men generally meet RW, I think often changes generally whom they meet. It's very small percent of the general population, and just using occums razor you'd have to say probably a bit more materialistic than the average FSU person,generalities stink though as there are as  many exceptions as there are rules?
I think a foreign man spending time with women generally met in that method will often have a different impression than, someone just there on lets say an orphanage help program ,or going to a university to teach english, and interacting with common families along the way.

To try and be objective:
I'm sure my perception is also  skewed by many factors?
I've lived over seas as  much or more than the USA.Including eastern europe.Living there is far different tyhan visiting.I also truly enjoy the outdoors, adventure and generally roughing it.. I'd be far more likely to go hiking than some club or snazzy trendy restaurant.I'd rather have a truck that can haul my gear than a luxury car , and women from any culture would  see that pretty quick.I'm just very unlikely to meet a materialistic woman romantically,so even if a country was filled with materialistic people, i'd simply be more likely to meet more down to earth types,by my occupation,and background.


The west is the king of bling.. and while the new russians in the capital cities may take that over the top.. lol
I still just don't see the entire population being significantly more enamored of such ,than the original population that seemingly invented the *livin' large* mindset

[Eduard]

lol , i'll say i think MLs point should be  considered ,as i have seen  RW like that,
but to me they often belonged to a very specific group of the general culture.
Kind of like the funny classes *teaching* how to be a sterva?
Its attended by a very specific set of big city devs, and not what the average russian family girl aspires to,or acts like.
The agency listing *way* that foreign  men generally meet RW, I think often changes generally whom they meet. It's very small percent of the general population, and just using occums razor you'd have to say probably a bit more materialistic than the average FSU person,generalities stink though as there are as  many exceptions as there are rules?
I think a foreign man spending time with women generally met in that method will often have a different impression than, someone just there on lets say an orphanage help program ,or going to a university to teach english, and interacting with common families along the way.

To try and be objective:
I'm sure my perception is also  skewed by many factors?
I've lived over seas as  much or more than the USA.Including eastern europe.Living there is far different tyhan visiting.I also truly enjoy the outdoors, adventure and generally roughing it.. I'd be far more likely to go hiking than some club or snazzy trendy restaurant.I'd rather have a truck that can haul my gear than a luxury car , and women from any culture would  see that pretty quick.I'm just very unlikely to meet a materialistic woman romantically,so even if a country was filled with materialistic people, i'd simply be more likely to meet more down to earth types,by my occupation,and background.


The west is the king of bling.. and while the new russians in the capital cities may take that over the top.. lol
I still just don't see the entire population being significantly more enamored of such ,than the original population that seemingly invented the *livin' large* mindset

Jumper, much respect to you, sir. You sound like a very intelligent, insightful, emotionally mature man. I'd advise any one to pay close attention to your posts.

[Gator]

 
I encountered a few RW who equate value with price.  And if you buy less than the top of the line, they feel slighted.  That is one definition of materialistic.
 
There are probably AW who are just as bad, yet such AW and I readily avoided each other for the reasons Jumper wrote.
 
At the other end of the spectrum, there are RW who take pride in saving money.  I could never think of them as materialistic.
 
I met several RW who were more interested in experiences than things, especially in discovering something new in life.  I could never think of them as materialistic.
 
There you have it - it depends upon the woman.
 

[Ludmila]

Jumper,
Have you tried to go to your local church in the states and look among the nice, modest girls without excessive ambitions ? I don't think that those R/U ladies  you think are attractive to you will be ready to share your life style. I don't want to see you scalded. Tell your future candidate exactly what you wrote in your post. Watch her reaction. Bring this up again and again.
 Or, try to look for very inambitious girls from Russ/U small towns, villages. There are many nice simple ladies there who dream of simple life.
Many men looking for a R/U wife are discounting the fact that because education was free in these countries, the population, on average, is more educated than their equals in the States. "Educated" presupposes  being more ambitious. Regardless of their material situation, modest means  they won't be happy to enjoy village /small town life AND THE LIFE STYLE. So, bear it in mind. Even if the lady is thrilled by the idea of coming to the States, it will surface later on.

[Ludmila]

AW are spiritual, truth of thruths, as well as generous and altruistic, the latter is especially vividly demonstrated  during the divorce. Because she is intoxicated with her spirituality, spirituality to the point of oblivion, she takes with her her womanly pride, her human dignity, memories of love, wedding photos leaving you with your wretched 401 K, your wretched house, your wretched bank accounts, your wretched assets.  So that the latter would not be in the way of her nirvana .