Aloe, the desperate housewife

[Muzh]

I see a passive-aggressive man. Also very immature.

I see a woman with very low self-esteem as a result of his passive-aggressive behavior.

I see a woman who has no clue what to do but thinks staying with him or in that country is better than going home. As a result of low self-esteem.

I see a woman who does not want to accept she made a mistake getting in this relationship by justifying his erratic behavior.

I see a man who takes his wife for granted at every opportunity. More to come. Not going to change.

Honey, wake up.

[Shadow]

I do hope someone noticed that hubby thought Aloe would start to be violent, and reacted on that.
Aloe this is something that you shoud look in to. Hubby feared that you would throw the drink in his face (or even worse smash the glass on him) and acted on that. While I would certainly say he overreacted, there might be something in his past causing him to react so strong.

If you wish to smash something, which I would not advise, do it in another room far away from him so he would not feel threatened.
However a better thing is to start calling him names as well. While you make it a point for yourself never to call him a name, doing so could not only let out your anger better, but als make him understand you are angry.
There are many great Russian words (yes I have heard some  ) to call him that might not directly offend as Dutch speakers would feel much less offended by them then their native words.

Learn to let out your anger and let go of it. It will improve your life.

About the music, how about taking some money and buy him a headset?
He can listen to anything he wants without disturbing you.

[missAmeno]

Aloe, many many moons ago I been in your shoes. Didnt had friends either. Never told a word about it to family for the same reason as you. Reading your thoughts in this thread is like mirror reflection of thoughts I been going through back then. I take my hat down for your courage to share what is happening and ask for advice, I didnt had guts to do that. Also was ashamed to admit I am one of those who ended up with violent husband, believed I can sort it out by myself ... till its become so bad that one day I had no choice but to run for help. Took almost a year in courts before he finally left me alone. I look back now and find hard to believe it happened in my life.

Dont let anyone to put you down, Aloe. If he doesnt respect you, he doesnt deserve you.

[Muzh]

I do hope someone noticed that hubby thought Aloe would start to be violent, and reacted on that.
Aloe this is something that you shoud look in to. Hubby feared that you would throw the drink in his face (or even worse smash the glass on him) and acted on that. While I would certainly say he overreacted, there might be something in his past causing him to react so strong.

Yea, I picked up on that. One more way to reduce her to nothing.
"Oh dear, I was so afraid of you I had to shove you to the wall and gag you. It was YOUR fault after all."

[Aloe]

Aloe, many many moons ago I been in your shoes. Didnt had friends either. Never told a word about it to family for the same reason as you. Reading your thoughts in this thread is like mirror reflection of thoughts I been going through back then. I take my hat down for your courage to share what is happening and ask for advice, I didnt had guts to do that. Also was ashamed to admit I am one of those who ended up with violent husband, believed I can sort it out by myself ... till its become so bad that one day I had no choice but to run for help. Took almost a year in courts before he finally left me alone. I look back now and find hard to believe it happened in my life.

Dont let anyone to put you down, Aloe. If he doesnt respect you, he doesnt deserve you.

Thank you for sharing, MissAmeno. Problem is, when we don't argue, he is nice and wonderful... More caring and more supportive and just better than any other man i have ever dated. If he wasn't that nice to begin with, i wouldn't have tolerated any of what he has done (like all those times during our 1st year when he blackmailed me into doing stuff under threat of divorce). But because he is so great, i just keep closing my eyes to all the episodes. And he does seem to learn, but very slowly.


And I think he is very impressionable. Whenever he sees another man do something that he for some reason notices, he immediately picks up the behavior. Like during our first year he would help and hold my purse when i asked for help, but then ONE TIME he saw his dad being an ass to his wife and refusing to hold her purse saying he's not a girl and mocking her, since that day my hubby flat out refuses to even touch my purse,  no matter if it's even for 1 second, or if its loaded with heavy books from school, no, it's like it is infected with the plague. Or another time, i would ask him to help me in this game we play, and he would refuse every time, but then he saw his great buddy help his gf in this exact way, since that day he suddenly doesn't mind helping me in game. I wonder if he even realizes this?

[Shadow]

Yea, I picked up on that. One more way to reduce her to nothing.
"Oh dear, I was so afraid of you I had to shove you to the wall and gag you. It was YOUR fault after all."

I do not say his reaction was correct or justified, but that it deserves attention of why he reacted so strong.

[Aloe]

I see a passive-aggressive man. Also very immature.

I see a woman with very low self-esteem as a result of his passive-aggressive behavior.

I see a woman who has no clue what to do but thinks staying with him or in that country is better than going home. As a result of low self-esteem.

I see a woman who does not want to accept she made a mistake getting in this relationship by justifying his erratic behavior.

I see a man who takes his wife for granted at every opportunity. More to come. Not going to change.

Honey, wake up.

I had low self-esteem before i met him. There are so many causes for that i can think of, i don't know what to do about any of it

[Eduard]

If he wasn't that nice to begin with, i wouldn't have tolerated any of what he has done (like all those times during our 1st year when he blackmailed me into doing stuff under threat of divorce).

  He blackmailed you into doing what?

[missAmeno]

Thank you for sharing, MissAmeno. Problem is, when we don't argue, he is nice and wonderful... More caring and more supportive and just better than any other man i have ever dated. If he wasn't that nice to begin with, i wouldn't have tolerated any of what he has done (like all those times during our 1st year when he blackmailed me into doing stuff under threat of divorce). But because he is so great, i just keep closing my eyes to all the episodes. And he does seem to learn, but very slowly.

It was same in my situation. He done things for me that put me in position of feeling guilty to even consider for a second that maybe he doesnt care or love me. Like you I didnt want to argue about little things, they didnt matter to me. And as you I couldnt understand how is it possible that we could have those bad moments while most of the time its all so nice and wonderful. And when happened 1st bad moment - I forgave him, when happened second time - I forgave again, and again, and again ... till its become so often that wonderful moments started to loose its meaning, couldnt love him anymore but still, as you said, would have "warm affection" because of eveything we have been through together. Every bad moment was becoming more and more violent. When I had enough and said I am ready to walk away, he didnt believed, by his logic if I forgave before then I can forgive one more time. It started to become routine that after every bad moment he thought his job to go to florist and bring big bunch of flowers, few days later he would do exactly same if not worse thing and again make a trip to florist. With time it become normal to him, so what if he push me, so what if he call me bitch. Somehow it become normal to me too. Didnt happen over night, took few years to get there. Feeling worthless without desire to fight, starting to say and do things to avoid next argument because you just cant deal with it, with time realizing you are not you anymore.

Every person of course is different and every situiotion is different also.
You have to decide for yourself what you want.
But if you decide to try work on your marriage, find the way that he speaks to third party, someone like counselor. That either will change relationship for better or finally break it (as it will open your eyes to see if there is chance or not to improve situation).

[Hammer2722]

I had low self-esteem before i met him. There are so many causes for that i can think of, i don't know what to do about any of it

I believe seeing a counselor on your own will help you deal with your self-esteem issues. This can go a long way to helping you also with your relationships as well. Good luck.

[BC]

Aloe,

keep up with regular meetings with your counselor.  It takes time and patience.. and most of all you being able to open up to a lot of very sensitive issues.  A counselor can only work with what is known so don't be a lemon that feels the need to be squeezed... just let it ALL out.

Remember that you must always be Nr. 1 when it comes to taking care of yourself.. both body and mind..  Without that it's difficult to be something for others in your life.

Wish you the best.

[Doll]

missAmeno, how did you get out of that marriage? I mean what exactly  did you do- step by step. If you don't mind sharing.
 

[Slumba]

Aloe, there is a lot of what you have said, that I recognize as having happened in my life as well.

Here are a few things I would suggest, or think that you should think about:

1. Be aware of when fights start.  In my case, I realized in one relationship that fights always started after midnight, so I made it a rule to either a) go to bed earlier or b) completely avoid and shut down any arguments that started after midnight.  Otherwise we would fight, then make up, and I would be tired and still feeling bad the next day.

2. Your husband is clueless.  He may or may not be a bad person, however, he clearly does not know how to treat a woman and have a long-term relationship with her.  He can learn, but it is better if he learns from someone other than you.  What I mean is, he needs to see how a good relationship is by having friends or family with a good relationship, then when he observes how they act and how they react to issues, he will have a mental model of what to do.

3. How many friends do you have that are "your" friends?  How many friends does he have?  And, do you have friends in common?  Having friends is important - if you don't have any where you are, you need to work at making new friends.  It is difficult at first if you have a little shyness, or think "why would anyone want to be friends with ME?" - but just work at it like you worked at learning a new language and you will have success.

4. Take up a hobby you enjoy and work hard at it!  It will give you a better sense of yourself and the mastery of this hobby will demonstrate to you and others in a real way, that you have value and talent.

5. If you want to remain married to this man, recognize that it will be a long and tough road for both of you.  And also recognize that if you leave, you will also have problems.  Ignore those people who want to tell you that if you just do X, all your problems will be solved.

6.  Look clearly and rationally at both your family background, and his.  You will see that there are patterns that repeat, both you and he must work at overcoming bad patterns that have been "baked" into your personality , AND, you must encourage the good behaviors that you have both learned.

7. Finally beware of "avoidance" behavior where you are more focused on avoiding bad things, than on moving forward, towards good things.  It can be a trap, that will keep you from being able to be happy.  Like a woman who is an accomplished dressmaker who is always critical of other people's dresses, rather than enjoying the party she is at.

[Brianinaz]

 
 

I didn't break the glass    What was going on, is he would come home every evening and start playing his crappy music (if you know the style called screaming, which is indeed screaming, not singing). I really do hate that style, and after a few weeks i guess i got fed up. Apparently listening to music you strongly dislike every evening can drastically lower one's quality of life. So anyway, he turned on his music again and i suddenly burst into tears and stormed out of the room saying something like "not your shitty music again". Then 5 minutes later i realized that wasn't a good way to bring my message, so i came back and said "don't you realize, i live here too?" I guess that's a bad way too, kinda provocative. So he yelled "don't you realize I live here TOO???? you are so selfish, i just wanna listen to my music, i come home from work tired" So i answered (first time in 3 years i have yelled, and im not exaggerrating, i've always made it a point to never ever yell in an argument, but this time i was fed up, so i yelled back that i cant stand his music and it really ruins my well being having to listen to it every evening. That's when he turned it up to a really loud volume and put his middle finger up, and not just put it up, but held it there. So after a few seconds of viewing his middle finger, i reached for the glass in front of him intending to smash it on the floor because i was angry. So he jumped up and pushed me to the wall with his hand around my neck and when i was against the wall and choked for a second from his hand, he took the glass and let go my neck (so no glasses were broken), set the glass down, then grabbed me by the shoulders and started pushing and yelling. And by pushing i mean holding my shoulders (arms? above elbows) and walking towards me forcing me to step back, for the distance of about 3 meters. Dunno anymore what he was yelling then.

Thanks for providing more details. It makes the picture much clearer. That wasn't a brief flash of anger, putting a hand on you then realizing "oh what am I doing" and removing it. It wasn't brushing into you as he walked by you. You were assaulted!!!
 

[GoodOlBoy]

In all seriousness, it is time you develop yourself an exit strategy.

Yeah, I just thought of something.
I hope you have your computer locked Aloe.
If he ever finds RWD or your threads.... Well, you will probably need to exit your home quickly!

GOB

PS... I hope the "rat" isn't reading this. 

[BC]

 Thanks for providing more details. It makes the picture much clearer. That wasn't a brief flash of anger, putting a hand on you then realizing "oh what am I doing" and removing it. It wasn't brushing into you as he walked by you. You were assaulted!!!

Brian,

We are not there... Aloe has a professional to talk to on a regular basis which is really good progress since her last thread.

I'm not trying to justify any actions taken by her husband or Aloe for that matter, but I do disagree with a 'no tolerance' stance at this point.

All we can do here is offer a little bit of support and our own experiences..  the rest is up to her.  An internet judge and jury is not going to be very helpful.

JIMHO

[BC]

Yeah, I just thought of something.
I hope you have your computer locked Aloe.
If he ever finds RWD or your threads.... Well, you will probably need to exit your home quickly!

GOB

PS... I hope the "rat" isn't reading this. 

I kinda doubt it.  There is really nothing Aloe has said here that would send him to jail...  In fact maybe we're making more out of it than we should.

I do agree though that she should be expressing the exact same concerns she shares here with her husband...

hmm.... co-dependency comes to mind..  can that exist over the internet?  Are we maybe just as guilty?

[GoodOlBoy]

There is really nothing Aloe has said here that would send him to jail... 

It is a fact that in some parts of the world the description of events given by Aloe would be considered "assault", no doubt, hands down.

There are also other parts in this world (Belgium?) that would consider the events that Aloe just described as "foreplay" (rough sex). 

I guess it just depends on where you live?
 
GOB

PS... If you think I am totally wrong here BC, I would invite you to walk up to your local police officer in Italy and do the same thing to him.

PSS... Make sure to get back to us on this!

[GoodOlBoy]

In fact maybe we're making more out of it than we should.

Then why not share these "wonderful family episodes" with Mom and Dad back in Russia?

Worst case i can always ask my parents for help. But i really rather wouldnt. As far as they know, everything is fine and perfect here.

Being a parent, I think you know the answer to that one BC.

 
GOB

[BC]

It is a fact that in some parts of the world the description of events given by Aloe would be considered "assault", no doubt, hands down.

There are also other parts in this world (Belgium?) that would consider the events that Aloe just described as "foreplay" (rough sex). 

I guess it just depends on where you live?
 
GOB

No, not foreplay but surely something to be concerned about.  Yes, domestic violence is quite a wide term.. depending on legal venue.  As stated I do not agree with 'no tolerance'. 

[BC]

Then why not share these "wonderful family episodes" with Mom and Dad back in Russia?

Being a parent, I think you know the answer to that one BC.
 
GOB

Indeed a good question, but one best explored with a professional that she does have access to.  There may be issues in that corner.

Such things are not always simple matters.

[Maxx2]

Aloa, part of what will make you feel some hope is getting a good escape plan in place. If your husband is not a danger to you then wait out 5 months and get your citizenship. I remember reading stories of Allied prisoners of war. They kept morale up by digging tunnels. Also someone suggested headphones for your husband. I thought of this too. Perhaps it might work.

[GoodOlBoy]

Also someone suggested headphones for your husband. I thought of this too. Perhaps it might work.

Or maybe some earplugs for Aloe?

GOB

[BC]

Headphones are a great idea... might even work wonders after 30 mins of sex.

"I know you like your music.... and I don't... but tell ya what.. give me 30 mins and I'll leave you alone the rest of the night..."

[Brianinaz]

This is why i am here and why i write such detailed accounts. What do you think i should have done?


Besides a psychologist and an exit strategy. You have already said those

Since you've asked I will give you my thoughts. You state how wonderful your husband is when you two are not arguing; classic abuser/battered spouse behavior (him) and mentality (you). Think about it for a second. The guy had you walking in the cold so he can sleep an extra 10 or 15 miniutes. He plays music every evening he knows you hate. I'm sure there's more examples you've shared, those are just two that come quickly to mind. Wonderful? Not how I would treat someone I care for let alone the most important person in my life.
Step back and look at yourself and your situation for a minute. You're young, you have no children whose welfare you have to consider. You're intellegent and seem to have a great sense of humor. You haven't posted any pictures but I'll assume you're somewhat attractive. Hello! a good life and happiness are your's for the taking. Now at the moment you're probably clinicaly depressed and see this guy as good as it gets and you'll never do better. You feel this marriage was your shot at happiness with a wonderful guy. Forgive my "french" but Bull Sh*t. Narcotic addicts will tell you the first time or two they used it was like being in heaven. But after that first couple of times they could never reach that same feeling and they spend the next x number of years chasing a feeling they never atain. You had a brief time "heaven" with with someone you thought was a truly wonderful. I would suggest you not spend the next x number of years chasing a feeling with this person that you will never atain.
While it sucks to go home with your tail between your legs IMHO you're best option is to push the reset button and do just that. You're worried about telling your mom what's going on because of the reaction she will have. You're maintaining an illusion for her. Sure she's not going to like the guy who assaulted her daughter. And what? I'd be a little concerned if your family were a bunch of gangsters and the guy was likley to go missing but short of that where's the benifit in maintaining pretenses?
Take some time, and start over again my dear. Most of us here have had relationships that ended and we've pushed the reset button and started over. For most it was somewhat painful. That's life, it's not a pain free experience. Many of us are much happier than we were. The advantage you have over most of us is you're 15 to 20 or more years younger than we are. At the moment you're stuck in a rain storm but there will be many sunny days ahead.
Brian