Aloe, the desperate housewife

[Aloe]

I'm desperaaaaaaate I'm desperaaaaate. arghhhhhh. I desperately wanna live on my own. What to do?    Drop out of college and find a job, or finish college while staying desperate. sigh


How to explain to someone that violence is unjustifiable? That flipping off your wife while turning up your horrible music to deafening volumes is immature? I just don't see how the prospect of a broken glass justifies acting aggressively to your wife? He doesn't see how it doesn't. So what if i wanna break a glass, that's no reason to push me to the wall and choke (albeit for a second), and then grab me on the shoulders and push and yell some more, and then deny that you have a problem with violence, and disagree  that it is unjustifiable. Sigh. You know the strange thing? After every argument i'm the one left feeling like i'm the horrible person. How does that happen?

[BC]

Aloe,

Regardless, things are escalating.  Best to explore all external options now.  Try social services for a starter or woman's group if you know of one.

http://www.brussels.irisnet.be/about-the-region/les-centres-publics-daction-sociale-cpas

[Aloe]

And the most important question, am i overly dramatizing the situation? Some people have called me a drama queen before    So what, choking happens, i mean it was only one second, and after he believed me that it did happen and i'm not imagining it, he said it was an accident. Pushing is barely violence, is it? It's not like anyone is getting hit here, just physically intimidated. Besides i read on the internet that male violence has everything to do with their spouse showing depressive symptoms.
And if i think im a horrible person, that's barely anyone's fault except my own low self esteem. There are 3 quadrillion ways in which i could be better. And my hubby is such a great guy when we aren't arguing. And we argue so rarely.. And i doubt i'll find anyone better...
The problem is arguments like this one ruin my feelings, and i'm long wondering if anything is left of love? There is definitely warm affection, but is there love? But it's not like there is anyone else out there.. There are millions of moderately happy families built on warm affection, aren't there...

[Aloe]

Aloe,

Regardless, things are escalating.  Best to explore all external options now.  Try social services for a starter or woman's group if you know of one.

http://www.brussels.irisnet.be/about-the-region/les-centres-publics-daction-sociale-cpas

I'm not eligible for financial support from the state due to the type of my residence permit. In fact, with my current permit, if i stop being my hubby's family member, they'll take away my residence permit and issue a departure order (that doesn't get enforced, but i'm not about to stay anywhere illegally). I am applying for citizenship this week. Citizenship application takes about 5 months, they said.

[Aloe]

When we aren't arguing, everything is so great... Almost perfect... That's the problem... And we argue so rarely..
But when we do argue, he doesn't cease to amaze me with the lack of ability of placing himself in anybody else's shoes, and with the failure to admit or realize that my point of view is not less valid than his. He always thinks things are exactly the way he perceives them, and there is no way in hell that his point of view is not the only correct one. In a nutshell, he perceives my actions to be done out of one or another feeling, and when i tell him what i was actually feeling, he doesn't believe me. So his perception of my feelings is the correct one, and the one i tell him is all wrong and he knows better what i was feeling, because he saw it.

[Aloe]

In a smaller nutshell, i get the feeling that he doesn't perceive me as his equal, but rather as someone child-like. But it's just a feeling...   

[BC]

How much is Mr. Smirnoff or Dr. Amstel involved when these arguments take place?

[Aloe]

None, i have not seen him drink even 1 glass of anything, not even beer in our 3 years of marriage.


You know what, i am wondering if my relaxedness and easy-going-ness have anything to do with the way he perceives me? Most of the time i let him choose and decide everything we do, because i don't mind. And i never make him do anything, because he fulfills his responsibilities and i dont care about the small stuff. He is always the one making me do stuff.
Maybe I should start yelling at him to go to the store when i tell him, to put the toilet seat down, and to get off the PC.

[Gator]

 "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."     Henry David Thoreau.
 
Thus, I do not suggest that you follow the desperation path.  It may never improve.  You need a plan - a long-term plan plus a plan for the immediate future.
 
 
As BC said, the strife between the two of you is escalating, i. e., your relationship is deteriorating.   The two of you need help.....now!
 
Hubby is frustrated.  Is there any source of this frustration other than his marriage to you?
 
You are desperate. What was the result of the family counseling that everyone suggested for the two of you?
 
Do you prefer to stay in Belgium after a divorce or return to Russia?  If the former. I suggest that you get by somehow until the citizenship is granted.
 
College will take a long time if you work and study.  However, you are young.  I wish you the best.

[Doll]

I'm desperaaaaaaate I'm desperaaaaate. arghhhhhh. I desperately wanna live on my own. What to do?    Drop out of college and find a job, or finish college while staying desperate. sigh


How to explain to someone that violence is unjustifiable? That flipping off your wife while turning up your horrible music to deafening volumes is immature? I just don't see how the prospect of a broken glass justifies acting aggressively to your wife? He doesn't see how it doesn't. So what if i wanna break a glass, that's no reason to push me to the wall and choke (albeit for a second), and then grab me on the shoulders and push and yell some more, and then deny that you have a problem with violence, and disagree  that it is unjustifiable. Sigh. You know the strange thing? After every argument i'm the one left feeling like i'm the horrible person. How does that happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

[Aloe]

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."     Henry David Thoreau.
 
Thus, I do not suggest that you follow the desperation path.  It may never improve.  You need a plan - a long-term plan plus a plan for the immediate future.
 
 
As BC said, the strife between the two of you is escalating, i. e., your relationship is deteriorating.   The two of you need help.....now!
 
Hubby is frustrated.  Is there any source of this frustration other than his marriage to you?
 
You are desperate. What was the result of the family counseling that everyone suggested for the two of you?
 
Do you prefer to stay in Belgium after a divorce or return to Russia?  If the former. I suggest that you get by somehow until the citizenship is granted.
 
College will take a long time if you work and study.  However, you are young.  I wish you the best.

I don't feel like it's been deteriorating. I feel it got better. We haven't argued in many many months. It's just when we argue, then i feel like this.  I'm just really confused and have no clue as to what i should do  


Doll, who are you calling borderline? Hubby definitely not, me maybe, i do feel like killing myself after every argument, cuz i'm too lazy to deal with life. And cuz life is empty. But i'm too chickenchit to hurt myself, so looks like i'm stuck here.


I did talk to a psychologist, that was very nice, but nothing clear came out of it? I am still as confused as ever.

They should really allow euthanasia for stupid unhappy chickens like me. I dont know why i'm unhappy and whatever the hell i need to get happier. I'm just mellow and swimming around hating my life.

[BC]

I did talk to a psychologist, that was very nice, but nothing clear came out of it? I am still as confused as ever.

How often?

Keep talking...

[Aloe]

How often?

Keep talking...

Once or twice a week for a few weeks.
She is unavailable right now.

[Turboguy]

From everything I have ever heard and read when someone is abusive they only get worse.  If he is chocking you and shoving you and showing emotional abuse I would be very surprised if it ever gets better and if it doesn't get worse.    I don't see a bright future for your marriage.  The feelings of worthlessness you feel is an almost universal result in an abusive relationship.  Nearly all abused women feel that way.  Abuse will also lower your ambition level and may be part of why you spend your time laying around doing nothing.


I think you need to think about if you want to stay where you are or go back home.  I get the impression you would rather stay there and if so, and since the level of abuse is not into the highly dangerous stage yet it would probably make more sense to get your citizenship before you think about ending your marriage.


Another thing to think about is since your ambition level is so low, if you had to get a job to support yourself, are you going to be able to work up the energy to show up for work and be a productive worker.  I think you would, but it is something you need to consider.  When your life has more purpose it may change you a lot.


There are lots of men out there who would treasure you and treat you like you should be treated.  Finding another man should not be a high priority anyway.  Finding yourself is the highest priority.   Since you don't have children and at your age, good men will be easy to find.  Do find one who is a little more mature.

[BC]

Once or twice a week for a few weeks.
She is unavailable right now.

Thats great Aloe.. Keep it up.

[GunayH]

Sad for you.

[fathertime]

Once or twice a week for a few weeks.
She is unavailable right now.

Just based on what I've read here in this thread (I am not reading your 1000+ other posts), it seems to me that you have something that you should deal with soon.
 1.  Have you discussed with your husband, the manner in which you want to fight in the future? If you set up a few 'do's and don'ts' that could be very useful


 It seems you have a decent marriage, aside from the fighting, so if you set up some ground rules for 'how to fight' he might very well go along with them. 


Fathertime! 

[GoodOlBoy]

It seems you have a decent marriage, aside from the fighting,......

Yes, aside from the husbands abuse fighting, it is just skippy! 
 
 

Aloe,
Regardless, things are escalating.

You aren't kidding BC.

I've seen this story played out to many times and the end is always the same (not good  ).

My wife has a close Ukrainian friend named "I".
Her American husband was released from jail last year after serving almost 1 year for domestic abuse and assault.
He was a Gov't employee working for the State Dept. He came back one day from an overseas assignment and one night decided to twist "I's" arm so badly that he caused a spiral fracture of her bone. Spiral fractures require a lot of torque.

Like many other abusive horror stories, it "only" started out with pushing, slapping, punching and choking her. 

Aloe, you need to leave this coward.
I pray for you (really).
 
GOB

[Muzh]

Uh, guys. Limit yourselves just to listen. No heroes wanted.

[Avis]

I'm sorry to read this Aloe, I really am.


I agree with what Turbo said.


Just one more thing to add, you can't really call him such a great guy after what he's done. Obviously, it's your choice and your marriage, but you can't think that's the best you can get. An abusive husband in no way can be the best you can ever get; the frequency of such "accidents" doesn't matter either.


I do hope you will sort this complicated situation, I sincerely like you as a person and believe you deserve much much better than living this life of a desperate housewife.


(sigh)

[Hammer2722]

I agree with others that things will only get worse over time for you dear. I truely detest any man (coward) that feels he must lay a hand on his wife to make a point. Don't justify this man's actions or trivialize them. I think you are truely concerned or you would not have posted such a sensitive sitiuation. Good luck.

[Faux Pas]

Uh, guys. Limit yourselves just to listen. No heroes wanted.

True. I will state for the record however:

Shoving, choking and hitting is not "okay" under any circumstances. While now you chalk up the choking as something you brought on yourself. You didn't. There is no reason for him to put his hands on you in any angry aggressive manner. No matter what you think of yourself, there is no excuse for his violent outbursts and being aggressive physically. Inside of six months you'll be rationalizing a couple of black eyes or broken bones.  It's all physical abuse, it must stop now.

[Shadow]

I could send MrsShadow over after which your hubby might feel something else as emotional pain....
Remember that while your status depends on his, you are actually always protected in case of abuse.
Also remember that if he chokes you, another part of him is pretty close and unguarded, the part you have fun with at other times.....

Fights happen everywhere, and if they have been getting less it means the both of you are doing something right. On the other hand if a fight over a small thing as breaking a glass (unless it is one in the family since 1500) escalated that much, obviously you are not communicating enough and the things that really bother you are kept inside.

[Wayne]

Aloe, breaking a dish or glass on purpose when you are angry is not such a good behavior either. It get things started! It is one thing to break the champaige glasses at your wedding ceremony, but means something different when you do it when you are angry at someone.
 
I remember years ago, when my ex AW got very angry over some stupid little thing. She grabbed the nearest things and started throwing them! You see, there was a special wall display that I built to hold the special wine decanter and six glasses that her father brought for her in Germany on their one and only trip abroad. Ex AW smashed them all on the floor!
 
Then, I made the big mistake of laughing! When ex AW realized what she had just done--trouble really started!  You know, she could never replace those glasses. By this time, AW's father had died.
 
Sometimes, a person lets things build up inside until the time comes when you cannot hold it in any longer. So it might be better to have some little discussions more often then wait until everything explodes.
 
Some families have a family meeting, perhaps once a week, at a regularly scheduled day and time,  where everyone gets to bring up their little problems. So you can try to work out the little problems when no one is angry before they get into bigger ones.
 
Pushing, choking etc. are not acceptable behaviors!

[ML]

Pushing, choking etc. are not acceptable behaviors!

Agreed, but remember when guys here tell stories about the terrible woman,
several always chip in  with . . . "we are only hearing one side of the story."

Where are the regular chippers?