Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[BC]

Would that make them trespassers? I thought you can shot trespassers in the US? (genuinely not sure if trespasser refuses to leave can you shoot them in the US?)

Yes it was trespassing.  In the US they would have been charged with a host of other 'crimes'.. like resisting arrest, assault on a police officer etc etc...  the book would have been thrown at them.

Law should also be a deterrent.  So in that light the sentence may be just even though I had hoped time served would have been enough.

[Ranetka]

Yes it was trespassing.  In the US they would have been charged with a host of other 'crimes'.. like resisting arrest, assault on a police officer etc etc...  the book would have been thrown at them.

Law should also be a deterrent.  So in that light the sentence may be just even though I had hoped time served would have been enough.

I've read some comments...The state wanted to fine them at first, their lawyers insisted on a trial, wanted Putin and Patriarch as witnesses.

[Shadow]

That may or may not be so, I don't exactly know. I think however, that even making "opinions" illegal, whether true or untrue, flies in the face of the so-called free west. This man was arrested and it was said that "material published by Zundel might cause “like-minded individuals to engage in violence.”

Well, might not the same be said of the punk group or other protesters in Russia who is trying to ignite an Arab-style revolution in Russia? I think so and repeat what I've said before that Putin is the best think to happen to Russia, as well as for the rest of us who want an end to the endless wars of agression orchestrated by certain mad people in position of power in the west.
 
http://www.ihr.org/news/030923Zundel.shtml

There is a limitation to freedom of expression, as well as the obligations to undergo the consequences of this expression. 
Putting up carefully constructed lies that exceed the 9/11 conspiracy theories by a mile is not equal to having an opinion. It is using your opinion to rehash a hatred that should be banned, even if it is showing again in other forms already.

As for Pussy Riot, I have already mentioned that it was not the content of their act, but the place that got them their punishment.

[BC]

I've read some comments...The state wanted to fine them at first, their lawyers insisted on a trial, wanted Putin and Patriarch as witnesses.

Ahh.. Explains a lot, even the consequences.

[OlgaH]

I was NOT being sarcastic. From what I've read so far, it seems your country is going back to the good old days.

Yes it does. As my Russian friends said last time "it is getting scarier and scarier to live in Putin's Russia." One famous Russian actor said: "to stay in Russia alive you have to die", that means you have to "kill" yourself inside yourself rejecting all the human rights and the freedoms, and blend with the grey mass glorifying existing regime and punish and exterminate those who dare to protest. 

The Pussy Riot trial has shown one more time how bad the whole Russian system is rotten where the government and the Church is in one bed both corrupted and the Church no more but the political instrument. The whole trial was one big justice clownery with one main purpose to spread the fear.

[tfcrew]

Would that make them trespassers? I thought you can shot trespassers in the US? (genuinely not sure if trespasser refuses to leave can you shoot them in the US?)

Were this true, there would be millions of dead illegals by now.

[BC]

The Pussy Riot trial has shown one more time how bad the whole Russian system is rotten where the government and the Church is in one bed both corrupted and the Church no more but the political instrument. The whole trial was one big justice clownery with one main purpose to spread the fear.

Every society has it's limits.  Had they pulled these antics in the US would it have really been that different?  Religion and politics have always been strange bedfellows...

http://www.pewforum.org/Topics/Issues/Politics-and-Elections/

[OlgaH]

Every society has it's limits.  Had they pulled these antics in the US would it have really been that different?  Religion and politics have always been strange bedfellows...

Oh yes, every ruling government has it's limits especially an authoritarian regime 

I sincerely doubt they would get 2 years in prison for jumping in a church and screaming "mother Mary drive Obama away" in the US

Plus their attorneys were in  bed with so called "justice" as well.   

[Fashionista]

Two years is of course too much. Fifteen days of community service would have been enough. But hey, this is the Russian criminal code, it's not a secret, it's plastered all over internet.
 
Oh, I am sorry, I didn't know it's illegal to smoke pot in Time Square NY- this is not a crime in Holland 

[BC]

Oh yes, every ruling government has it's limits especially an authoritarian regime 

I sincerely doubt they would get 2 years in prison for jumping in a church and screaming "mother Mary drive Obama away" in the US

Plus their attorneys were in  bed with so called "justice" as well.

Disrupting an ongoing religious ceremony, trespassing, resisting arrest, assault on a police officer.  That's pretty much what I saw on their video.

LANSING (WWJ/AP) - Gov. Rick Snyder has signed legislation making it a misdemeanor to disrupt a religious service in Michigan.

The governor’s office said Wednesday that the new law includes a sentence of up to 93 days in jail and a $1,000 fine for disrupting a worship service. The law increases the possible fine to $5,000 for repeat offenders.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/06/28/snyder-oks-jail-for-disrupting-religious-service/

Considering all the charges, 2 years would probably be deemed reasonable even in the US.

I personally would have opted for time served and 2 years probation.

They were offered a fine, but insisted on a trial to make a statement.  They will not ask Putin for a pardon.

But at least the Church has forgiven them.

Really, I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

[tfcrew]

Every society has it's limits.  Had they pulled these antics in the US would it have really been that different?  Religion and politics have always been strange bedfellows...

It would depend.
In a mosque...deplorable.
In a synagogue ...outrageous.
In a Christian church...like Olga stated, the ACLU attorneys would be screaming
'freedom of speech' !!!
 

[OlgaH]

Two years is of course too much. Fifteen days of community service would have been enough. But hey, this is the Russian criminal code, it's not a secret, it's plastered all over internet.

I agree. Their protest as action was silly and tasteless regarding their choice of place.  But it is a Russian justice. A senator in Russia who shot and wounded 11 y.o. child because of a snowball got 2 years  probation, a traffic policeman near Moscow got 3 years probation for cruel battery of a woman driver, former policeman in Tomsk got 5 years probation for selling drugs and there is a lot of such stories about Russia justice.

Pussy Riot's song - punk prayeris right to the point but of course IMHO

[tfcrew]

In the USA, this is considered [most usually] disturbing the peace.

Whatever happened to the other 4 members?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot

In this video you can see how really talented they are.
I can't wait to not see their world tour after they are freed. 

[Fashionista]

I agree. Their protest as action was silly and tasteless regarding their choice of place.  But it is a Russian justice. A senator in Russia who shot and wounded 11 y.o. child because of a snowball got 2 years  probation, a traffic policeman near Moscow got 3 years probation for cruel battery of a woman driver, former policeman in Tomsk got 5 years probation for selling drugs and there is a lot of such stories about Russia justice.

Pussy Riot's song - punk prayeris right to the point but of course IMHO

Olya, I agree with you, selective justice in Russia is outrageous. Certainly it is not applied equally to everyone.
 
However, ironically, in this particular case the law was applied "by the book". You and I can agree that the sentence is too strict for this case, but the problem isn't that laws in Russia are too strict or too lenient, but that very few people, including these silly girls, respect them. I guess, it's a chicken and egg thing. A law-abiding person can't get a break mainly because of his 'clever' peers, not as much because of Russian corrupt political higher-ups. Truly, each nation deserves its government.

[Ranetka]

Olya, I agree with you, selective justice in Russia is outrageous. Certainly it is not applied equally to everyone.
 
However, ironically, in this particular case the law was applied "by the book". You and I can agree that the sentence is too strict for this case, but the problem isn't that laws in Russia are too strict or too lenient, but that very few people, including these silly girls, respect them. A law-abiding person can't get a break mainly because of his 'clever' peers, not as much because of Russian corrupt political higher-ups. Truly, each nation deserves its government.

Agree.

[OlgaH]

Olya, I agree with you, selective justice in Russia is outrageous. Certainly it is not applied equally to everyone.
 
However, ironically, in this particular case the law was applied "by the book". You and I can agree that the sentence is too strict for this case, but the problem isn't that laws in Russia are too strict or too lenient, but that very few people, including these silly girls, respect them. I guess, it's a chicken and egg thing. A law-abiding person can't get a break mainly because of his 'clever' peers, not as much because of Russian corrupt political higher-ups.

Fashionista, I would rather agree that the biggest problem in Russia is not too strict or lenient laws and even not these silly girls but the whole system that includes the judicial as well that manipulates these laws in its favor, and Pussy Riot process was exactly about manipulating the laws...

Truly, each nation deserves its government.

Indeed... Ivan the Terrible... Stalinism... Putinism... what ever.

[Ranetka]

Fashionista, I would rather agree that the biggest problem in Russia is not too strict or lenient laws and even not these silly girls but the whole system that includes the judicial as well that manipulates these laws in its favor, and Pussy Riot process was exactly about manipulating the laws...

Indeed... Ivan the Terrible... Stalinism... Putinism... what ever.

i think the biggest problem of Russia is that a lot of it's citizens even educated, intelligent people feel the need to belittle it . Do you know Olga for example that during ALL the time of Ivan the Terrible reign there were less people killed than during just two weeks of St Bartholomew killings in France? Same years, same era...

[Ranetka]

Americans as I said earlier should not really moan about other countries sentences being too harsh or outrageous,  after all US has more prisoners per capita than anyone else. (Russia's second lol)

[OlgaH]

i think the biggest problem of Russia is that a lot of it's citizens even educated, intelligent people feel the need to belittle it . Do you know Olga for example that during ALL the time of Ivan the Terrible reign there were less people killed than during just two weeks of St Bartholomew killings in France? Same years, same era...

Ranetka, my point is not how many people and during whose regime and in what country were killed, but Russians in general are so accustomed to live (or exist) under the dictatorship, tyranny and fear that they cannot think any other way of living, that's why "Putins "are their presidents.

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, my point is not how many people and during whose regime and in what country were killed, but Russians in general are so accustomed to live (or exist) under the dictatorship, tyranny and fear that they cannot think any other way of living, that's why "Putins "are their presidents.

Olga I do not think people are living in any more fear than say in the West. I certainly have more uncertainty of the future than my parents had. They did not have mortgage for one thing. I also have to comply much more to corporate style etc than I had to while working for (out of all places) USSR military school. For an average person there is very little difference where to live, you have to comply and be the same as everyone else.


AS an example if I come to work tomorrow wearing a hijgub  (how do you spell it?) a. people will not treat me the same way anymore b. I will be the first out the next redundancy.


I keep lots of thoughts to myself, same as everyone else otherwise I will not have a job. And this is an official democracy Olga. It is no different to any other country really.

Where to live - I mean politically, obviously economical situation and overall stability is very important.

[OlgaH]

Ranetka, we certainly have different opinions including the USSR. To me the USSR is "shut your mouth and do what the communist party tells you to do and be glad to get 9 square meters in "obashaga" or a 18 square meters khruschevka for free for your silence so you will have a place for your popa, otherwise we will find another place less comfortable for your popa"

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, we certainly have different opinions including the USSR. To me the USSR is "shut your mouth and do what the communist party tells you to do and be glad to get 9 square meters in "obashaga" or a 18 square meters khruschevka for free for your silence so you will have a place for your popa, otherwise we will find another place less comfortable for your popa"

We have our differences :-)
May be some of them due to you being a business owner and me a employee?   I feel that I am slaving for the next 24 years so my house will be paid off and I can start work part time. Just in time too, our brilliant government makes us work longer and longer...Work till you drop. Horrible USSR let women retire at 55....


Let's forget about USSR for the moment, how people are oppressed now? You open any Russian website and Putin is blamed, called names etc....All over the place. I just can not see freedom of speech oppression, these girls they protested before, number of times and nobody bit an eyelid.

[Fashionista]

nobody bit an eyelid.

Is that a British expression? I've never heard it...

[Ranetka]

Is that a British expression? I've never heard it...

supposed to be BAT an eyelid lol. I am keyboard dyslexic

[Fashionista]

supposed to be BAT an eyelid lol. I am keyboard dyslexic

lol, too funny 
 
I am too by the way, I keep spellcheck right here, but too many misspelled words are actual words