Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[Ranetka]

These girls are on the bad way , if you pay attention to their age it's even worse, because at this age they are supposed to have some wisdom. Their parents obviously failed at raising them good people, so the country has to do it now, and I do think that 2 years is a lot but I don't think that a simple fine would prevent them from doing what they do now.
They  can't be worse than they are now, so hopefully life in prison will teach them something new. I will not be surprised if many years later some of them will understand what they did and will end up with being a nun.
the good thing is that the kids will not be raised by immature irresponsible  moms for 2 years' time.

After cases like that when moms are sacrificing their little kids for orgias in churches and supermarkets you really start believing in God and devil.

You know I would have never put it this way but I fundamentally agree.

[OlgaH]

Olga I do not care, I am an atheist :-)  Or Buddhist may be. However millions of Orthodox worshipers think differently and church is the place where they supposed to worship in piece. For them Church has become unholy after four stupid girls sang their stupid song on the Altar. If they did it in a Mosque they would probably got harsher sentences as it's somehow even worse for moslems.

"religion is an opium of the people"  "the sigh of the oppressed creature..." 

I more believe in Mahatma Gandhi's "God has no religion" :-)

I don't find their song stupid, I find the song to be very true regarding the situation in Russia. About their choice of place for protest I mentioned in my previous posts.

[OlgaH]

You know I would have never put it this way but I fundamentally agree.

Ranetka, really? 

[Vasilisa]

I have no idea how someone can support them and find this funny.
 Look at their eyes, they don't even look healthy, I bet you they are on some kind of drugs or mentally ill. For those who are interested I recommend to watch a  Russian movie "Island" by Pavel Lungin. You will see the girl in about the same mental condition.

[OlgaH]

I have no idea how someone can support them and find this funny.
 Look at their eyes, they don't even look healthy, I bet you they are on some kind of drugs or mentally ill. For those who are interested I recommend to watch a  Russian movie "Island" by Pavel Lungin. You will see the girl in about the same mental condition.

Vasilisa, when I read your posts you sound kinda unhealthy to me,  no offence is intended, but your posts sound scary, maybe you should quit the "opium" 

I have a guess what you think of my posts and I'm OK with it, anyway you are free to express yourself 

(just kidding around)

BTW the months (almost half year)  in a Russia prison during the trial  will not give a healthy look to anyone.

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, really? 

1. They had a number of protests before which went relatively unnoticed.
2. They went to an important church to make a statement/publicity stunt
3. they could go off with a fine but insistent on trial
4. they are all educated people so could read criminal code and understand what they are doing
5. two of them have small children. small children are more important than politics
6. they could still gone off with a fine had they not created an international stir
7. to summarise 1-6 they were trying to be martyrs
8. to give them small sentences mean they would benefit from publicity with little price to pay
9. i think what they did was wrong and  2 years is about right for them to understand they should have not exchanged two years of they lives and lives of their children for a questionable pleasure of singing angry songs and treating criminal court as circus.
10 so if any of them understand it it will  be good
11 for any of them who carries on political career this experience will be largely beneficial as they now are internationally known.


There.

[OlgaH]

1. They had a number of protests before which went relatively unnoticed.
2. They went to an important church to make a statement/publicity stunt
3. they could go off with a fine but insistent on trial
4. they are all educated people so could read criminal code and understand what they are doing
5. two of them have small children. small children are more important than politics
6. they could still gone off with a fine had they not created an international stir
7. to summarise 1-6 they were trying to be martyrs
8. to give them small sentences mean they would benefit from publicity with little price to pay
9. i think what they did was wrong and  2 years is about right for them to understand they should have not exchanged two years of they lives and lives of their children for a questionable pleasure of singing angry songs and treating criminal court as circus.
10 so if any of them understand it it will  be good
11 for any of them who carries on political career this experience will be largely beneficial as they now are internationally known.


There.

Ranetka, if it is really what you think... Russia has a long way to go to understand what a democracy, the rights, the freedoms are... I just can say "God help" what ever God is... 

OK, I take a rest.

[Ranetka]

Basically they fully knew what they were doing and possible consequences therefore I hold them responsible for the outcome. They knew what they were getting into, let's not blame Putin for their choice.


I actually do not think they will serve the whole 2 years anyway.

[Ranetka]

Ranetka, if it is really what you think... Russia has a long way to go to understand what a democracy, the rights, the freedoms are... I just can say "God help" what ever God is... 

OK, I take a rest.

Good night Olechka, there is no right or wrong according to Buddhism, we are all good people. Democracy, Putin -it's just words, two silly girls will not see their kids, that's real and sad.

[OlgaH]

Basically they fully knew what they were doing and possible consequences therefore I hold them responsible for the outcome. They knew what they were getting into, let's not blame Putin for their choice.


I actually do not think they will serve the whole 2 years anyway.

that was exactly the soviet times... actually any times of dictatorship in Russia... people have to be silent to survive... to be like one mass applauding the public prosecutions of those who dared to speak demanding more punishment for them and applauding when bulldozers ran over exhibitions of dissidents artists and poets who spoke about the human rights and freedoms... people have to be the applauding mass because there are the regimes laws, anybody can be next... and Pussy Riot got the lesson as everybody else in Putin's Russia.

[OlgaH]

Good night Olechka, there is no right or wrong according to Buddhism, we are all good people. Democracy, Putin -it's just words, two silly girls will not see their kids, that's real and sad.

Thanks Ranetka,

and silly people in the Stalin's gulags ... and silly Sakharov who spoke about the truth during the Soviet time... silly dissidents who were criminally prosecuted for anti-soviet and anti-communist thoughts and propaganda during the soviet time... they knew what they were getting into... yes, that's real and sad.

[TheTraveler]

in russia, there is freedom of speech.

but in usa, we have freedom after speech.

(-yakov smirnoff)

[mendeleyev]

Ranetka:

I hope Mendeleyev will comment, it's interesting to see how he would feel as both Anti-Putin supporter and devoted Orthodox believer.

Ranetka, thank you for asking me to comment.

First let me say that this was my church, where I stand on many Sundays to worship and pray, where this desecration took place. It was a desecration, taking place before the Iconostasis and I was offended by their deeds and attitudes, but not their presence. Christ invites everyone to come into His presence and these girls had every right to approach God in His Temple.

Their actions however were offensive. I grieved because of them, but also for them. In the trial, boxed in cages as if they were animals which is a part of the Russian legal tradition that I deplore, they looked far more frightened and less than confident. My heart went out to them and as an Orthodox believer I am reminded that they are mothers, with children who will be deprived of an important parent.

Forgiveness is an important tenant in most religions and certainly in Orthodoxy. I found it puzzling that it was President Putin who in public seemed more forgiving than my own church leadership. To wait until yesterday to issue statements asking for leniency and mercy seemed a bit late. Frankly, these things disappointed me as much as the "disappearing watch" event of several months back. But my faith is ultimately not in any man, nor any Patriarch, but in God.

I believe that the Pussy Riot case has divided Russia along lines other than pro-Putin and anti-Putin. Whether one walks the streets and reads the graffiti or spends an hour on vk, quickly you sense that public opinion across Russia has divided more along the lines of age in this case, as opposed to political ideology.  You are correct in that too many in the West look at this case and find every reason to criticize the President or on oppressive laws.

At the same time there are others who will use this as a convenient excuse to criticize the Church. In my estimation, the cause of Orthodoxy was set back by the relative silence of church officials to come forward and make the case for Christian forgiveness. It is simply my own opinion, but my fear too, because I love the faith and want it to flourish.

As for President Putin, yesterday (Saturday) he met with the official council of human rights ombudsmen of Russia. This group includes persons of various offices and of varying faiths in Russia.





Mr. Putin listened and allowed others to have the floor to speak. Instead of holding this meeting on a weekday or at the official presidential residence, this meeting was on a Saturday and inside the Kremlin. As you know, the Kremlin for several years has been used mainly for symbolic and diplomatic functions and no longer as the working home of the Russian government. Critics may say that he staged the event and that he was not serious about the content. However, it is true that he listened and participated as well as directing the meeting. The President and Prime Minister reserve the Kremlin for important functions and this is perhaps a signal of his desire to meet the Russian people at some level on human rights.





As to his protection of the Orthodox Church, he does see his role as one of protector. But he also sees himself as protector of the Muslim community of the Russian Federation. Yesterday, which was the Uraza Bayram holiday marking the end of Ramadan, Mr Putin met with Muslim leaders and issued a statement to all Muslims across the country. He cited the significant contributions made by Muslim fruitful and "...the rich ethnic and cultural traditions of the peoples of Russia and its centuries-old spiritual heritage. On this happy holy day I wish Russian Muslims prosperity, health and success in good deeds."

Sure, it is okay to criticize our leaders. But we must also given them credit when they do the right thing. We would hope that they would view us in the same way.

Had I been the judge in this Pussy Riot trial, I would have tried to ignore any outside influence, any "telephone verdicts" as was so common in the CCCP, but I do not believe that this judge issued a sentence on orders from above, rather from the statues in the Russian Federation criminal code. Were it me, I'd have sentenced them to time served and some community service. They're young, with children, and everyone deserves a chance to grow and mature. That was what I saw in their faces, and such is just my personal opinion.

[Misha]

If you had been an Orthodox you wouldn't have been feeding the devil.

The devil is being fed when the murderers such as the ones who gun down journalists like Anna Politkovkaya never see justice and equally guilty are those who aid and abet such injustice, and may even for all we know piously go to church for photo-ops 

[Ranetka]

Ranetka:
Ranetka, thank you for asking me to comment.
[size=78%].  You are correct in that too many in the West look at this case and find every reason to criticize the President or on oppressive laws.[/size]

At the same time there are others who will use this as a convenient excuse to criticize the Church.

 but I do not believe that this judge issued a sentence on orders from above, rather from the statues in the Russian Federation criminal code. 

Thank you. I am really happy to see that we are seeing the same.

[Misha]

Thank you. I am really happy to see that we are seeing the same.

Then, I will be the dissenter. For such a high profile case, I would say that it borders on unthinkable that a judge would not have been "advised" by someone, in the same way that I have no doubt that Khodorovsky's sentencing was also not the sole doing of a judge.

[Ranetka]

Then, I will be the dissenter. For such a high profile case, I would say that it borders on unthinkable that a judge would not have been "advised" by someone, in the same way that I have no doubt that Khodorovsky's sentencing was also not the sole doing of a judge.

You have a point too. The verdict is within the law however so all good.

[Misha]

You have a point too. The verdict is within the law however so all good.

Perhaps, but I have greater respect for judges who refuse to apply unjust laws.

[Ranetka]

that was exactly the soviet times... actually any times of dictatorship in Russia... people have to be silent to survive... to be like one mass applauding the public prosecutions of those who dared to speak demanding more punishment for them and applauding when bulldozers ran over exhibitions of dissidents artists and poets who spoke about the human rights and freedoms... people have to be the applauding mass because there are the regimes laws, anybody can be next... and Pussy Riot got the lesson as everybody else in Putin's Russia.

Olga this is just not true. They don't "have to be silent to survive.". The have protested before in various places, no-one had silenced them.


Anyone can organize a demonstration, protest, art exhibition, whatever.


This time they have chosen to artistically express themselves offending other people in the place of worship. Their actions were criminal. Their 2 years in prison colony IS harsh, well tough sh&t. As I said earlier not harsher than sending a man to 25 years for a burglary.

[Ranetka]

Perhaps, but I have greater respect for judges who refuse to apply unjust laws.

I have respect for people who refuse to apply unjust laws. Judges however are by definition in a position of applying and protecting existing law. If applying existing law is against their moral code they must resign rather than bend the law.


I m not sure if Canada has a precedent Law system? In Russia the Criminal Code outlines max and min punishments for different crimes, the judge job is to determine the Article applied and give a sentence within the outlined in the Code. But you probably know it anyway:-)

[Misha]

An independent judiciary is essential to freedom. If judges mindlessly apply laws and follow orders, then freedom will be eventually lost by all IMVHO.

[BC]

Wonder if the FEMEN protester here trying to support pussy riot will get charged for pulling this stunt.... Or should this be considered free speech also and therefore should get a free pass?

[Anotherkiwi]

Wonder if the FEMEN protester here trying to support pussy riot will get charged for pulling this stunt.... Or should this be considered free speech also and therefore should get a free pass?

What's with all the blurring?  Is it too rude to show actual breasts?

[tfcrew]

It is very rude not to.

[Misha]

Wonder if the FEMEN protester here trying to support pussy riot will get charged for pulling this stunt.... Or should this be considered free speech also and therefore should get a free pass?

Should they be charged for destroying public/private property? Sure. I would have them pay the cost of repairing/replacing the cross. Should they somehow be charged with a hate crime against Christianity? That, we can certainly debate.