Russian Punk Band Is Found Guilty of Hooliganism for Anti-Putin Protest

[Muzh]

Perhaps you should read up on the history of the Inquisition and the torture chambers that were built, organized and run by the Catholic Church with the blessing of the Pope 

Ahem, don't need to go so far. Just look at the recent rash of pedophilia from these holders of the sanctuary.

[Misha]

Ahem, don't need to go so far. Just look at the recent rash of pedophilia from these holders of the sanctuary.

Yes, and in Canada we had the nightmare of the residential schools    Many of the children certainly didn't find refuge there either...

[Misha]

How about even a PLANNED protest could be worth 3 years jail in the USA?
The guy was not talked in to pushing it to the limit, unlike some people in Russia.

I don't agree with the ruling either, but I expect that the majority of the American population will be outraged...

[OlgaH]

Olga,

I find your response quite selective..  I addressed both points in bold above.  Any comments on those two points?

What is your question?

My point is that the building itself is a secular building, different secular organizations and business also rent the facilities of the building. The City of Moscow also holds its secular celebrations in the building. The different organizations also can rent the facilities of the building for their own celebrations including different kind of  banquets.  The Church was given only 7 % of the building in free indefinite-term rent (or use) The facility where Pussy Riot performed their protest has not been given to the Church and the Church doesn't have any legal rights on that facility and cannot perform its religious service there according to the official documents. So, factually, according to the official documents, the Pussy Riot were dancing and singing in the secular public place than belongs to the City Hall and operated by the Fund of the Cathedral that is also a secular organization.

http://ozpp.ru/news/pussy-riot-speli-na-ne-prinadlezhashchey-rpts-chasti-hrama.html

But the RF "justice" simply closes its eyes on such facts as it closes its eyes when the priest or the state officials commit crimes 

[Misha]

But the RF "justice" simply closes its eyes on such facts as it closes its eyes when the priest or the state officials commit crimes 

Yes, and then insists that the law be followed down to every comma when in comes to sentencing 

[BC]

What is your question?

My point is that the building itself is a secular building, different secular organizations and business also rent the facilities of the building. The City of Moscow also holds its secular celebrations in the building. The different organizations also can rent the facilities of the building for their own celebrations including different kind of  banquets.  The Church was given only 7 % of the building in free indefinite-term rent (or use) The facility where Pussy Riot performed their protest has not been given to the Church and the Church doesn't have any legal rights on that facility and cannot perform its religious service there according to the official documents. So, factually, according to the official documents, the Pussy Riot were dancing and singing in the secular public place than belongs to the City Hall and operated by the Fund of the Cathedral that is also a secular organization.

http://ozpp.ru/news/pussy-riot-speli-na-ne-prinadlezhashchey-rpts-chasti-hrama.html

But the RF "justice" simply closes its eyes on such facts as it closes its eyes when the priest or the state officials commit crimes 

Olga,

Review reply 162 and 227

162 evidences a number of DUI death incidents where little or no jail time was involved..  In fact maybe even the norm.. and this in countries other than RU.  It is not 'abnormal' at all... and I do have personal experience I would be willing to share with you in PM, a very close family member killed by a DUI driver who received 6 months suspended..

In 227 I mention that the Orthodox church we frequent is in a basement of an apartment complex..  It matters not one iota if it is leased, rented, owned or illegally appropriated by the Orthodox Diocese.  It is where we worship from time to time and that is what matters.  Pussy Riot (now a registered trademark) chose this venue for a reason.  I highly doubt they researched rental contracts or building plans to ensure they were on 'public' property for their 'performance'.  Your argument is a mere technicality and of little substance.  Their intent was clear.

Olga, Pussy Riot had a rather long leash..  they were not arrested in their first, second, third performance... they were arrested and charged when they pushed the envelope too far and infringed upon the rights of others.  Their free speech were not infringed upon.

No, I do not believe Putin is a saint.. far from it, but as long as objections are in the minority (and mostly external) I think democracy in RU still ruiles, maybe in a quirky way, but one that is par for the course in politics nowadays regardless where on the globe the pin is stuck.

[OlgaH]

BC, in Russia if you are driving drunk and kill someone in a car accident you get a jail sentence, of course if you are mere Russian and don't have the right connections.

Regarding the Pussy Riot arrest. They were arrested 12 days after and it was their attorneys who appealed against arrest and its extension. Plus during their 6 month of arrest they were often deprived of their rights to see their attorneys. 

[Ranetka]

Regarding the Pussy Riot arrest. They were arrested 12 days after and it was their attorneys who appealed against arrest and its extension. Plus during their 6 month of arrest they were often deprived of their rights to see their attorneys.

I do not think it's matter, they appealed against arrest but would not agree to pay the fine; probably told the women they would be acquitted or get suspended sentence as a result of trial.

[OlgaH]

In 227 I mention that the Orthodox church we frequent is in a basement of an apartment complex..  It matters not one iota if it is leased, rented, owned or illegally appropriated by the Orthodox Diocese.  It is where we worship from time to time and that is what matters.  Pussy Riot (now a registered trademark) chose this venue for a reason.  I highly doubt they researched rental contracts or building plans to ensure they were on 'public' property for their 'performance'.  Your argument is a mere technicality and of little substance.  Their intent was clear.

BC, I gave you the link to the official website of the official organization The society for consumer right protection in Russia that  now demands to make the Church answerable for illegal occupation of the facility that belongs to the City of Moscow. So, the Church cervices in that facilities are also illegal.

[OlgaH]

I do not think it's matter, they appealed against arrest but would not agree to pay the fine; probably told the women they would be acquitted or get suspended sentence as a result of trial.

would you be so kind to give me a link to such information, that Pussy Riot did not agree to pay fine.

[Ranetka]

I mentioned earlier that I could not find the source and even said If it's true...


I tried to search your links about drunk priests, I found a forum where you copied one from, it was not an original link bu someone posted, he actually mentioned that the priest was fired from the Church asa result of this???? Also he got suspended sentence because he had three kids and pregnant wife.

[Ranetka]

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blog/pussy-riot-russia-hooliganism-laws/


This summaries what is amount of fine according to the Article they were charged for. 

[OlgaH]

I mentioned earlier that I could not find the source and even said If it's true...


I tried to search your links about drunk priests, I found a forum where you copied one from, it was not an original link bu someone posted, he actually mentioned that the priest was fired from the Church asa result of this???? Also he got suspended sentence because he had three kids and pregnant wife.

Strange, Ranetka, I also cannot find the source if Pussy Riot were offered to pay fine.

Here is the link to KP about drink priest
http://www.kp.ru/daily/24077/312780/

[BC]

BC, I gave you the link to the official website of the official organization The society for consumer right protection in Russia that  now demands to make the Church answerable for illegal occupation of the facility that belongs to the City of Moscow. So, the Church cervices in that facilities are also illegal.

Your assertions are of little consequence...  It looks like a Church, even smelled like a church, worshipers gathered there to pray and reflect, lighting candles in the presence of their preferred Icons that provide them solace.  That was the 'target venue' Pussy Riot chose for a distinct purpose.  Who technically owns or leases the property is irrelevant.  Intent is key.

[Ranetka]

http://www.1tv.ru/news/other/212444


Guess they could have got out with a fine if they plead guilty. First link from my post earlier is the description of a new law, second mentioned they did not plead guilty. I need to check the new law from 15.06 plus процессуальный кодекс. Thats too  much


Thanks for the link, does i say that the church disposed of the guilty priest because of his crime?

[Ranetka]

Olga all of it smells worse and worse. I can not find any links I went to the first day this thread started. I am trying to find the page where it was mentioned about them asking for Putin and Kiril to be witnesses and I can not find it either. I am really starting to feel like shite about the whole dirty affiar, worse and worse.

[Ranetka]

Мы сегодня здесь рассматриваем не политическое дело. Мы рассматриваем вопрос криминальный - совершение хулиганства по религиозным мотивам", - сообщила адвокат потерпевших Лариса Павлова.

[/size]source
http://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/212468

[/size]Смотрите оригинал материала наhttp://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/212468

[OlgaH]

Religious hate? and to you Ranetka it doesn't matter that the girls asked for believers' forgiveness for their unintentional insult, that their protest was a protest against Putun and Kirill politics, there were 2000 signatures from believers in favor of Pussy Riot... it doesn't matter too.

I really don't know who said it, sometimes it misattributed to Voltaire:  "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write"


Honestly, I don't know if I'm ready to give my life for example for you Ranetka and even my son, myself so we would have the right to speak openly and without fear. I don't have the balls.  Do you understand that the simple phrase "God doesn't exist" or "There is no God" can be also considered as an insult and religious hate as well. It depends how far the repressive court decided to go.


Является ли оскорблением верующих выражение «Бога нет»? «Нет, конечно, – отвечает Кучерена. – Это вопрос философии, а не права. К тому же этот тезис нельзя ни подтвердить, ни опровергнуть...» «Свобода совести предполагает свободу веровать в любого бога или не веровать вовсе, – отвечает на этот вопрос адвокат Карина Москаленко. – Формулировки должны быть в законе точными, но свобода судейского усмотрения всегда в правовой системе присутствует». Однако и здесь не все так просто, подчеркивает собеседница «НГ»: «Проблема в том, будут ли суды слишком репрессивны. Если да – то заявители получат право на признание нарушенных прав в Европейском суде. И на моральную компенсацию соответственно».
Подробнее: http://www.ng.ru/politics/2012-07-13/1_dictionary.html






 

[OlgaH]

Мы сегодня здесь рассматриваем не политическое дело. Мы рассматриваем вопрос криминальный - совершение хулиганства по религиозным мотивам", - сообщила адвокат потерпевших Лариса Павлова.

source
http://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/212468

Смотрите оригинал материала наhttp://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/212468

What is your point Ranetka?

BTW here is an interesting video

[Ranetka]

Honestly, I don't know if I'm ready to give my life for example for you Ranetka and even my son, myself so we would have the right to speak openly and without fear. I don't have the balls.  Do you understand that the simple phrase "God doesn't exist" or "There is no God" can be also considered as and insult and religious hate as well. It depends how far the repressive court decided to go.


 

To start with, I would not expect you to. Thanks for considering though :-)


Anyway, its past midnight so I must go soon. Meanwhile I found a brilliant webpage where every news is saved day by day as the story unfold. Its www.radiovesti.ru.

[Ranetka]

What is your point Ranetka?

BTW here is an interesting video

I found it's interesting that Pussy's defender says it's not a political but common criminal process about hooliganism on the grounds of religious hatred ;-)

[OlgaH]

I found it's interesting that Pussy's defender says it's not a political but common criminal process about hooliganism on the grounds of religious hatred ;-)

what defender? in the video?

[Ranetka]

No, the quote Адвокат подсудимой this is defender, no?


Have not watched you video yet, reading. whats is there?

[OlgaH]

No, the quote Адвокат подсудимой this is defender, no?


Have not watched you video yet, reading. whats is there?

Larisa Pavlova is not Pussy Riot's attorney, she represents the Church, according to her the feminism is a sin and Kirill is saint.

[Ranetka]

oh my fault!!!!!! I need to sleep. Sorry.


Thanks,