The adventure begins

[vivefrancais]

Hello everyone, Roy, 48, from the UK here.
I've been reading this forum for a little while now taking on board the candid, friendly advice. Thank you, it's much appreciated.
I'm just at the stage of registering my profile & soon hope to have ongoing communication with FSUW who have good intentions. I'll let you know how I get on if you like. I must admit to wasting a few £'s on buying 5 St Pete email addresses from AFA - no replies.
I have a friend who married a lady from southern Russia about 10 years ago after 1st visiting sites. She's lovely & they seem very happy. I'll have a chat with them. For the simpler route I've asked them for any intros but I think that's too much of a long shot.
My aspirations are to find someone around 35-42, with kids is fine & so is the possibility of having more.
I have a couple or 3 questions that would be good to get answered.
I'm not fully decided on where to aim my search. I'm angling towards (the) Ukraine as it seems fairly accessible. I'm prepared to travel but would rather not go to the back of beyond. Originally I was thinking of St Pete or Moscow for the above reason & I'd like to visit them but I'm now thinking I may not have too much success there. Your thoughts on the most likely regions would be appreciated.
After having read 'Pursuing FSUW 101'  my first thoughts were that the women might not give the best response when they know that they are one of a number being visited. I feel if that happened to me I'd tend to be fairly non commital. I realise it has to be a numbers game as it's unwise to pin a trip on one lady but hopefully there will be some advice to make this process appear slightly less mercenary?
Also what length of time have people spent with the women on a first visit & have they found it useful to keep some free time at the end for revisiting?
I'll use my own intuition, based on my comms as well, to help decide but never having done this before it would be good to hear your experiences on these. Thanks.
Best regards.   

[newjason]

Hey Roy.
I have to tell you, I think you should play the long shot in this case.
Who knows you better than your friends?
If they have friends, then you can have friends by proxy.  I would for sure follow that avenue.
I would even travel with them to the FSU. That way, you can hook up with whomever they suggest for you,  and if it get's all weird and awkward, you still have your friends there to spend your time with.
Unless there is some reason they would not want to set you up with thier friends, I would follow that avenue first.
At least that way you will meet someone who is in your own social class.

[Hammer2722]

I have to agree with Jason. If your friend's FSU wife knows what kind os man you are and thinks you'd make a good husband, then she would have no trouble introducing you to one of her friends or relatives. You know what they say, networking is usually the best way to get what your looking for.
 
 

[Vaughn]

Welcome, Roy. I'm mostly scarce around here these days, and have no Ukraine experience. That being said, don't neglect to dig into the logistics of bringing a Ukrainian bride home with her child(ren) in tow. There could be legal hurdles of which you will want to be aware. Here is just one of several threads addressing that subject:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14269.0
 
I wouldn't immediately write off the idea of a personal introduction by your friends. Long shot it may be, but such contacts can be very valuable.

 
My first trip to Russia lasted a scant 12 days in 2001. Subsequent visits were longer, several weeks each. My "method" is considered archaic these days by most. I corresponded briefly with six women, maybe seven. In a few weeks' time it became exclusive with one.  She met me in Moscow where we spent a day and a half getting to know one another, then travelled by train to her hometown. I'm a big believer in meeting the woman on her turf: spending time in her kitchen, dacha, or whatever environment is natural to her. That's just me. Others here can advise you on how to engineer a "visit many" journey, and I would absolutely agree you should allow time for revisits.
 
As a WOVO (write one visit one) I got extemely lucky, yet I managed to maintain the attitude that a busted WOVO was far better than committing to the wrong lady. 

[Muzh]

Hi Roy and 

I'll go straight to the point.

Women in Russia will be more accessible to a 5 year difference while women from Ukraine would accept a (much) larger age difference. The reason is pure and simple: economics. Please keep that in mind when you may think you charm and wits did the trick. That may be the case but it will be later on.

Mature women with kids is a 50/50 safe proposition. Too many variables to say it is a done deal.

Talk to your friend and his wife. She will be an incredible asset when deciphering the maze.

Finally, there are NO scammers, just foolish men giving their money to total strangers.

Good luck.

BTW, what kind of convertible is that on your avatar? Looks like a Sunbeam.

[Gator]

Roy,

 
 
Your goals seem reasonable.  While pursuing the long shot, I suggest that you join an agency such as Elena's Models.   You pay a modest amount for 6 months subscription, which entitles you to contact an unlimited number of women.
 
Some will answer, and some of those will prove interesting.  What happens from there depends upon your communication.  I suggest that you use Skype rather than emails for communication.
 
It sounds as if you are a VO (visit one) man.  Fine.  Just make sure that you spend hours and hours on Skype before committing to visiting only one, i. e. positive vibes should be overwhelming.  It can happen.
 
Where to visit?  If there is a strong connection via Skype, she may invite you to her city.  The typical FSU city does not have the sightseeing attractions of Moscow and St. Petersburg; however, seeing her city, meeting her family and experiencing FSU culture firsthand can be reward enough. 
 
Alternatively, the two of you could meet in some city such as St. Petersburg.  There are pros and cons about this.
 
Regarding children, decide what role you want to play in helping to raise her children and then determine if she feels the same.  Also, make sure that you will be just as important in her heart as her children are.  This is difficult to grasp and takes time.  Having a common child would be ideal.   You can even be like I/O and have an entire cricket team of children.

[Chicagoguy]

I know you said you don't want to go to the boonies and I agree with that for a first time visit. Maybe after you are more comfortable you could stretch your wings. But I suggest you not overlook women from smaller cities. I found that almost all were willing to come to Moscow to see me. Of course, one could always think they were looking for a nice getaway but in my case I think all were sincere.
It was also a way to WOVM if that interests you.

[Chicagoguy]

Did I say that?   Sorry.   I meant WMVM.
Write Many Visit Many

[ML]

ChicagoGuy, I liked your WOVM better.

In that approach, you write one woman and put the burden on her to come up with ten or more women for you to visit.

You continue writing to just this one.  She holds a meeting to read your message to all the other gals.  Then, she writes a composite message back to you.

This will save the man a lot of time.

Perhaps a patent on this?

[Vaughn]

ML might be onto something revolutionary.
 
I'm thinking Six-Pack K-1.

[Eduard]

Hi Roy and 

I'll go straight to the point.

Women in Russia will be more accessible to a 5 year difference while women from Ukraine would accept a (much) larger age difference. The reason is pure and simple: economics. Please keep that in mind when you may think you charm and wits did the trick. That may be the case but it will be later on.

Mature women with kids is a 50/50 safe proposition. Too many variables to say it is a done deal.

Talk to your friend and his wife. She will be an incredible asset when deciphering the maze.

Finally, there are NO scammers, just foolish men giving their money to total strangers.

Good luck.

BTW, what kind of convertible is that on your avatar? Looks like a Sunbeam.

I think the age gap greatly depends on each individual. A 27 yo, good looking woman CAN fall in love with a 48 yo man if he is handsome, in great shape, well educated and is a very intersting, smart and worldly person. You just have to be realistic about yourself and your potential partner. My experience tells me that if a man dates women who are 5 years younger locally he can date FSU women who are 5 to 15 years younger. Also if he dates 5s (in terms of looks) locally he can usually date FSU women who are 6s and 7s. Trying to get a 9 or a 10 would usually not work. You can "upgrade" by a couple of points in the FSU. That is very realistic, IMO.

[vivefrancais]

Hello guys, thanks for the responses & advice. A few of you spend a lot of time on this site! I'm glad of that.

I will try & work the friends russian wife's friends/family option as far as I can.

Think I will start in Ukraine & see how it goes.

I'm not keen on visiting just one after reading some of the stories here. I'll figure this out as I go along. I haven't seen any stories of guys persuading women to come to visit them 1st time. I guess they're more wary than us & obviously there could be financial issues.

I too liked the Write One Visit Many option - brilliant! If I reel one girl in with my charm then colour my teeth in a photo to look like a plate of burnt chips then she's going to want to palm me off with even her best friends!

Yes, it is a Sunbeam Alpine. Spent most of yesterday underneath it, touching up the old girl for winter.

[Hammer2722]

Hello guys, thanks for the responses & advice. A few of you spend a lot of time on this site! I'm glad of that.

I will try & work the friends russian wife's friends/family option as far as I can.

Think I will start in Ukraine & see how it goes.

I'm not keen on visiting just one after reading some of the stories here. I'll figure this out as I go along. I haven't seen any stories of guys persuading women to come to visit them 1st time. I guess they're more wary than us & obviously there could be financial issues.

I too liked the Write One Visit Many option - brilliant! If I reel one girl in with my charm then colour my teeth in a photo to look like a plate of burnt chips then she's going to want to palm me off with even her best friends!

Yes, it is a Sunbeam Alpine. Spent most of yesterday underneath it, touching up the old girl for winter.

Good for you! Eventually, you will go with whichever search format you are comfortable with (WOVO vs WMVM). GOOD LUCK!

[Jumper]

Welcokme!
and for what its worth, I'd second Gatorz advice


I'd add that which  country or city isn't important in the onset,
communicate with many and  try to build interest with one (or more) and a location will appear

[size=78%]I think the age gap greatly depends on each individual. A 27 yo, good looking woman CAN fall in love with a 48 yo man if he is handsome, in great shape, well educated and is a very intersting, smart and worldly person.[/size][size=78%] [/size]

[size=78%]whew !! glad you agree with my wife! [/size]
[size=78%]well all excepting the  well educated and smart bits .. [/size]

[newjason]

LOL
WOVM
that's awesome.
Write One girl, just make sure she has more than 300+ friends on vk.
That way if she doesn't like you, you can have her suggest all her friends. LOL

Nothing could go wrong with that plan! It's brilliant!

 

[Eduard]

whew !! glad you agree with my wife!

off course I agree with your wife! I've learned long ago that disagreeing with a woman can be futile! 

[55North]

Welcome Roy.


I'm only an occasional visitor to RWD nowadays after 8 years of engagement with the FSU.  Whilst I am very happily married to a Russian, my first 'life' involved a Ukrainian fiancee.  The lack of visa and easier (cheaper) access is certainly attractive.
 
But be careful.  Assuming you have done your Due Dilligence ie. read all the cautionary tales on RWD, know that the general 'marketplace' is not as it was, even a five years ago, let alone ten.
 
But the biggest problem you will have is probably the British government.  You don't need me to tell you that it's war out there re immigration to the UK.  For that reason, and if you haven't come across them before, let me introduce you to the forum at Real Russia, the specialist at the mechanics of actually getting 'her' to the UK.
 
http://www.realrussia.co.uk/forum/category-view.asp
 
For what it's worth, and picking up on Vaughn's comment, I was WOVO on both 'visa' occasions.  My wife and I are 15 years apart.  Last weekend, we went to the housewarming party of a wonderful couple in their 40s, he, never before anywhere near or interested in the FSU, and now just back from visiting her family in Belarus, and she, on her 2nd British marriage after 11 years in Newcastle.

So, there may well be love here at home, but with 'eastern promise', if you have connections.

[Muzh]

I think the age gap greatly depends on each individual. A 27 yo, good looking woman CAN fall in love with a 48 yo man if he is handsome, in great shape, well educated and is a very intersting, smart and worldly person and is loaded with billion$$.

There, fixed.

You just have to be realistic about yourself and your potential partner.

Make sure you are loaded and get a prenup.

My experience tells me that if a man dates women who are 5 years younger locally he can date FSU women who are 5 to 15 years younger. Also if he dates 5s (in terms of looks) locally he can usually date FSU women who are 6s and 7s. Trying to get a 9 or a 10 would usually not work. You can "upgrade" by a couple of points in the FSU. That is very realistic, [/color]NOT.

Bullshevism!!!


All joking aside, Ed has described the exceptions to a T.

[Muzh]

Hello guys, thanks for the responses & advice. A few of you spend a lot of time on this site! I'm glad of that.

I will try & work the friends russian wife's friends/family option as far as I can.

Think I will start in Ukraine & see how it goes.

Just use your common sense and you'll be fine. Remember, if it is too good to be true, it is.

Yes, it is a Sunbeam Alpine. Spent most of yesterday underneath it, touching up the old girl for winter.

I knew it!!

Nice.

[Jumper]

There, fixed.



Hmm i missed out on the millions or billions,by millions and billions..lol!!
amazingly still never had any troubles with women being seriously and sincerely interested

Make sure you are loaded and get a prenup.

Sorry, no prenup needed, don't have enough millions or billions to matter..
and if that occured she would be absolutely welcome to whatever is fair in any marriage that ended.

Bullshevism!!!

All joking aside, Ed has described the exceptions to a T.


exceptions? perhaps, but i know quite a few single FSU women, in the age range ed described, very few would not be interested in the man ed described.

[Eduard]

exceptions? perhaps, but i know quite a few single FSU women, in the age range ed described, very few would not be interested in the man ed described.

Thank you, Jumper. Sometimes I think that Muzh lives in a different universe where things don't work exactly the same way as here.
FWIW, I'm not only the hair club for men owner, I'm also a client 
I'm definitely not a millionaire, not even a billionaire!  I've been married for almost 8 years to a very attractive girl who is 20 years younger than me raising 2 babies with her. According to mr. Muzh that is impossible! maybe it has all been a dream?

[Shadow]

Hello Roy,

As you are from the UK you have a very large advantage over most here that you should use: distance.
If you wish to maximize your chances while minimizing invested time, arrange to have a lot of three-day weekends. From the UK a flight to Ukraine and Russia is just a couple of hours, so you can go and come back easily. No jet lag, no time needed to recover.
So your tactic should be to write, then if there is an interest to meet in person just hop over for a long weekend. One or two days are enough to know if you want to go further or not, and if needed you can repeat this many times.

You got relatively cheap flights and the possibility to meet someone fast.

[Eduard]

Hello Roy,

As you are from the UK you have a very large advantage over most here that you should use: distance.
If you wish to maximize your chances while minimizing invested time, arrange to have a lot of three-day weekends. From the UK a flight to Ukraine and Russia is just a couple of hours, so you can go and come back easily. No jet lag, no time needed to recover.
So your tactic should be to write, then if there is an interest to meet in person just hop over for a long weekend. One or two days are enough to know if you want to go further or not, and if needed you can repeat this many times.

You got relatively cheap flights and the possibility to meet someone fast.

Yes, this can be a good method for him, as long as he learns to separate prodaters and scammers from the real, sincere women.

[vivefrancais]

Good advice on immigration & various visiting methods - thanks.

Had a chat with my friend & his Russian wife today. Lots of advice coming thick & fast, much of it contradictory which led to some spirited banter! As she's well educated & was relatively well off she thinks I should narrow my search to those women, which my friend disagreed with. He added that it's going to be almost impossible to marry off their 2 sons as no woman will be good enough for them.
Theirs is an interesting story. Briefly, he started writing to women all over, some from dating sites, some from penpal sites. After a few months he'd narrowed it it down to about 20 & said he'd like to visit.
2 from St Pete, 2 from Moscow & 1 penpal from Astrakhan replied saying they were keen. The penpal said she'd got a few friends that might be interested.
After having a good time sightseeing & dating in the 1st 2 cities he flew to Ast. & was shown round for 3 days by his penpal & her ex husband. He suggested that it might be a good time to start visiting her friends & she said, you guessed it, that she quite liked him herself. So they went to a holiday resort quite a few hours SW of Ast. Quite a dangerous area I believe. There were lots of Russian soldiers about & a year after the trip one of the trains on the same route as their holiday journey was blown up.
My friend explained that he wasn't well off, he was buying his house but also had quite a few debts that needed clearing so she certainly wasn't expecting to come to the UK & live in luxury.
 
Looking at their story a possible parallel, more subtle approach could bring success. There probably was a fair amount of luck involved as it was his first visit but I think it's great that he found such a nice genuine girl. I'm hopefull there are plenty more like her, just needs some dedication to find them.

He does strike a wary note on some of the dangers of these places, especially Moscow. This was 10 years ago. I'll try & find out what the situation is today.

[Manny]

Ask your friends wife if she will check her Odniklassniki for single friends she might introduce you to. That is good hunting ground.

About the Russia v Ukraine question. By choosing Russia, you will pretty much avoid the 'mail order bride' industry that is still booming in Ukraine. In Russia, it has mostly gone now. And that is a good thing.

Most men start out with these 'visit many on one trip' ideas. Most seem to focus in Odessa or Kiev. Most crash and burn.

FWIW, most Brits I know who are married to a Russian speaking woman are married to women from Russia.