Parallel to Doug's Summer/Fall Trip to Ukraine

[Anotherkiwi]

Firstly, let me say "Thank you, Doug!"  We have locked horns a couple of times in the period that you've been a member, but most of this trip report has been sheer gold - not necessarily for the way you've behaved (which to me has bordered on the insane in some places!  ), but for the inventiveness you've shown in the way you've got out of a couple of very tricky situations, and the sheer delight which you've shown in both your relationship with Larissa and her daughter and in your enjoyment of what is to be seen in different parts of Ukraine.
 
I seriously wish you the best of luck in this endeavour.
 

We will have to respectfully disagree on this.  I understand your point however if you do not connect with your future wife, you might want to enjoy the experience of discovering a land and culture that you may decide not to come back to.

The best of both worlds would be if the woman is like Larissa and incorporates the sight seeing into the time spent together.  I feel very lucky to have hooked up with her.  I spent about 2 months in Ukraine last year with Irina and never vistited a single historic site, nor learned nearly as much about the culture outside her little world.

I agree very much with this.  I've stressed in several posts, following on from what was stressed TO me, that you must treat at least your first trip as a "holiday with possible benefits."  You have to go with no expectation of an instant romance - no matter how many emails you've written, or how much time you've spent talking on Skype, nothing which takes place before your initial face-to-face meeting(s) counts for ANYTHING.  If it all goes pear-shaped when you meet (as it did for me within a couple of minutes on the first trip, and a few days on the second) it makes sense to have a back-up plan.  That may be meeting one or more other women, whether or not you had planned to, or, as in my case, simply enjoying a holiday in one of the most amazing parts of the world.  I'm an architecture and history buff, so visiting St Petersburg for the first time was enough to make me drool for hours! Being able to go back four years later, even in often crummy weather, was yet another dream come true.  It made me determined that, if I AM lucky enough to get married again, this is one city to which I will take my wife.
 
Although any idea of romance died fairly quickly with my two WOVOs, I was lucky in that they both enjoyed sightseeing, so we had a good time in that regard - on the first trip we did day trips from Naberezhnye Chelny to Izhevsk and Kazan, as well as walking around a lot of Chelny itself, while the second lady and I spent several days exploring Rostov-na-Donu and Sochi, and the attractions near the latter (I highly recommend the 33 Waterfalls!).  This to me was far more enjoyable than being with a woman interested only in "shopping," even if the total cost was not much different.
 
 

[calmissile]

Firstly, let me say "Thank you, Doug!"  We have locked horns a couple of times in the period that you've been a member, but most of this trip report has been sheer gold - not necessarily for the way you've behaved (which to me has bordered on the insane in some places!  ), but for the inventiveness you've shown in the way you've got out of a couple of very tricky situations, and the sheer delight which you've shown in both your relationship with Larissa and her daughter and in your enjoyment of what is to be seen in different parts of Ukraine.
 
I seriously wish you the best of luck in this endeavour.
 
I agree very much with this.  I've stressed in several posts, following on from what was stressed TO me, that you must treat at least your first trip as a "holiday with possible benefits."  You have to go with no expectation of an instant romance - no matter how many emails you've written, or how much time you've spent talking on Skype, nothing which takes place before your initial face-to-face meeting(s) counts for ANYTHING.  If it all goes pear-shaped when you meet (as it did for me within a couple of minutes on the first trip, and a few days on the second) it makes sense to have a back-up plan.  That may be meeting one or more other women, whether or not you had planned to, or, as in my case, simply enjoying a holiday in one of the most amazing parts of the world.  I'm an architecture and history buff, so visiting St Petersburg for the first time was enough to make me drool for hours! Being able to go back four years later, even in often crummy weather, was yet another dream come true.  It made me determined that, if I AM lucky enough to get married again, this is one city to which I will take my wife.
 
Although any idea of romance died fairly quickly with my two WOVOs, I was lucky in that they both enjoyed sightseeing, so we had a good time in that regard - on the first trip we did day trips from Naberezhnye Chelny to Izhevsk and Kazan, as well as walking around a lot of Chelny itself, while the second lady and I spent several days exploring Rostov-na-Donu and Sochi, and the attractions near the latter (I highly recommend the 33 Waterfalls!).  This to me was far more enjoyable than being with a woman interested only in "shopping," even if the total cost was not much different.

Thanks for the comments.  I don't necessarily think that any particular method of dating FSUW is the 'only one' that suits everyone.  It is a very personal experience and we all have different interests and priorities.  You and I happen to agree on our priorities. I would not have traded this years experience for anything.

Had I followed ML's and Edwards advice last year, I would not have wasted a year and $10k - $15K on a relationsip that had no chance of success.  A lot has been written about love being blind and I can certainly vouch for this.  LOL

I learned a lot this trip about the culture and behavior of 'typical' FSU women.  You can't do that when you have only had the experience with one person.  The more time I spend in Ukraine the more I love and respect the common people in this country.  My dreams last year were to be able to spend a lot of time in both the US and Ukriane after marriage.   I still have that goal and if things work out I will adjust my life to try and make that dream come true.   

My friend Bob in Kiev owns a beautiful apartment in Kiev, a ranch in Colorado and a business in Tuscon.  He spends about 1/2 time in Ukriane.  I envy his situation and can see myself and my future wife doing the same thing.

Another lesson I learned was that having the opportunity to investigate business opportunities, local customs and processes was far more accurate than believing the negative comments on the forum.  Some people expect that livng somewhere else in a different culture is bad because it is not the same as they are used to.  When in Rome.......   LOL  It also takes a lot of blood and sweat to build a successful business anywhere including the USA.  I have done it twice and if you have the skills and the drive, it can be done in Ukraine as well.  Some of my friends have already done so.

I am not going to get into details about Larissa's history, but if I were fortunate enough to marry her or someone like her it would be a much easier road to travel.  Prior to her taking 3 years off to raise her daughter, she owned a large beauty shop in Kiev with 67 employees and at age 38 has purchased and paid for a flat in Yalta, bought 2 cars, paid for two $10K medical operations for her mother and raised her daughter on her own.  We seem to share the same dreams and both have the drive to work hard to make a better life for ourselves.  Yes, it is materialistic and that's the way we are.  When you share the same goals it makes life so much easier!

Over the next few months we will decide whether to pursue our dreams together.  She is anxious to do so but has several personal and business matters to clear up before it can happen.  I am not counting any chickens before they hatch, because I do not like dissapointments.  Whether it works out or not, it was a fantastic time spent together with a wonderful woman and her daughter.

[ML]

Doug and Kiwi,

My advice presumes a well  planned WMVM trip.  In such a trip, there are PLENTY of women to meet.  So there is no down time to spend on ones own as you might encounter on a VO trip.  The goal is women.  The sight seeing comes with the women by your side and as it can be fit in.

Yes, it is best if the women you are meeting are into showing you around the sights as opposed to wasting your time whining about things and moping about a home.

Now that is not to say that I would be opposed to just going on a vacation trip to see the sights and be open to meeting any women that happened to be in  the same areas that I would be  in.  But in this case, it would probably be to completely different locations than FSU.  Look at lists of ancient wonders of  the world and modern wonders of the  world and see  how many are in FSU.

So decide what you primary goal is, and then take action to maximize your chances and enjoyment.