USA Tourist Visa Denied - any thoughts?

[JohnMI]

Yesterday my wife's parents appeared in Kiev to apply for a tourist visa to visit my wife, children and I in Pennsylvania during December. Overnight train ride to and from Nikolaev, waiting for several hours in the cold rain outside the Embassy and then a 3 minute conversation with a staffer through a glass window before he announced their visas were denied under 214(b). My mother-in-law was very upset and was still crying when we spoke to her via Skype last night. My father-in-law is upset, but did not appear on Skype to discuss this with us. Mom stated the interviewer asked to see their passports and the photo page of their application form. He then asked where they worked, whether they have a family member in the USA and finally whether they have any other family in Ukraine. She is employed as a baker and her husband is an electrician, my wife is their only family in the USA, and they have a son in Nikolaev who is married and has a small daughter. These are the only questions they were asked. After asking about their granddaughter, the staffer told them their application is denied.
They appeared at the embassy with an invitation letter from me promising to bear all their expenses and to ensure their return after 3 weeks, they had proof of ownership of 3 apartments and one commercial building, proof of ownership of a car and copes of their bank statements. The staffer would not look at any of their documents and did not allow them to speak, other than to answer his questions. I verified the staffer was an American, not a Ukrainian employed there.
After hearing this news I fired off an email to the Embassy asking the basis of the denial. I received a reply a few moments ago indicating that they did not provide sufficient proof of intent to return to Ukraine. Then this clause ..
"An applicant refused under Section 214(b) should review carefully their situation and realistically evaluate their ties. They may write down on paper what qualifying ties they think they have which may not have been evaluated at the time of their interview with the consular officer. Also, if they have been refused, they should review what documents were submitted for the consul to consider. Applicants refused visas under section 214(b) may reapply for a visa. When they do, they will have to show further evidence of their ties or how their circumstances have changed since the time of the original application. It may help to answer the following questions before reapplying: (1) Did I explain my situation accurately? (2) Did the consular officer overlook something? (3) Is there any additional information I can present to establish my residence and strong ties abroad?"
How the hell is someone supposed to explain the situation accurately or present additional information if the staffer refuses to look at it???
At the moment I am considering a phone call to my Senator (our K1 visa was stalled for awhile, and after one phone call to him I received email notice of approval the next day), but I have also read that Senators and Representatives have no sway over the Embassy decisions (and I'll feel compelled to donate more money to him if he makes an effort on my behalf! ). I don't want to toss another $320 into the trash with a new application if I can expect my inlaws will be treated the same way on a subsequent interview, but I want to believe something can be done in this situation.
Has anyone here experienced something similar, or do you have any suggestions?

[Goombah]

My inlaws are in Russia and not nearly as well off as yours.  What has worked is to send just one of them over at a time.  We feel bad, because that has always been my wife's mother, not her father - but she speaks decent English and he does not.  Leaving a spouse behind apparently qualifies as an indicator of intent to return...

[Muzh]

Your Congressman would be more effective. Whoever you decide to contact (maybe both) supply them with as much information as you can.

And what Goombah says.

[Vaughn]

I am so sorry for all of you. The denial is earth-shattering when you have your hopes so high. I've been there buddy - it's frustrating. There are a few other things I can recommend, but first let me say that my local Congresswoman's office, although helpful, pointed out that an appeal is out of the question. These decisions, made hastily, are not reversible (as far as we've been told).
 
Similar stories have been discussed before in the Immigation and Visas section of this board, mine included. Regading your letter of invitation (which I believe is still not a required document) you may have hurt your own case by mentioning you are handling the expenses....  yeah, I did the same thing, but a member here, BC, took a different approach that may have merit. I say "may have" simply because, as you've noted, the denial notice contains no concrete information regarding the reason(s). The following quote is for your consideration:
 
 

Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding this rationale.



It's pretty simple.. Consulates like to see someone that has cash in their account to cover costs of the visit. Is quite the same here in EU. My inlaws are visiting now on a Schengen visa that was 'backed up' by some funds in their account. They are staying for 90 days so the minimum was around 5k US. Guess where that came from..

I think consulates see 'guarantees' along the lines of 'money talks, bs walks'.

John, I will add more pointers through the day. Don't give up hope, but also don't reapply too soon, allow some months to pass. A quick re-app is held to extemely close scrutiny according to our Congresswoman's office.
 
I will address the "familial ties" angle in my next post later....

[Vaughn]

Very quickly before I forget:
 
Has either parent ever traveled abroad, say to Turkey, Egypt, Western Europe? If so, their past travel record and timely return should be documented. This works in the applicant's favor....

[ML]

I have mentioned in other threads about this . . .
NO INVITATION is required to get a tourist visa to USA and no support statements from other persons are needed.

As Vaughn wrote . . . the idea is the visa granting people want to see applications that can stand on their own.

If you want to think even more commercially . . . the USA (and other countries) would like to see NEW tourist money brought into the country . . . not just recycling of money already in the country.

[Wayne]

Sorry to hear about this!  I think the staff at the embassy reviews the application before you go to the interview, and already has their mind made up. So, it is important to have every document exactly correct. The person doing the interview has a list of questions made up before hand and you do not get to present your case.
 
It is the same, if you ever had the trouble, of going to court and face the judge. If you are "pro se" (without an Attorney) the judge will probably not give you a reasonable time to present your evidence.
 
Your representative would be a better choice, I think, than your Senator. I had an extremely slow response from both of my senators, but very quick from my representative.
 
Of course, there is nothing you can do but try again with more evidence.

[ML]

I had an extremely slow response from both of my senators, but very quick from my representative.

A quick response . . . but of any help in changing the outcome?

As mentioned above . . . the Immigration Service is quite well insulated from political pressures.

[Vaughn]

If either of the parents (applicants) have any siblings, complete identifying information on each (as listed below) should be included as evidence.
 
My personal belief is that a letter of recommendation from employers may carry some positive sway, if for no other reason than to validate their claim of employment there.
 
Here is a list of items, many of which you already addressed, that were recommended by our Congressional office.
 
 1) Full Name
2) Date and Place of Birth (City, Town, Province, Country)
3) Residential Address
4) Home and Office Telephone Number
5) Employment Position, Name of Employer, Address of Employer, and
Length of Time at present Employment
6) Same Information on Spouse as listed in numbers 1 to 5 above
7) Same Information on All Children as listed in numbers 1 to 5 above
8] If Spouse or Children are Naturalized US Citizens or Legal
Permanent Residents of the United States, please indicate status
and provide their Naturalization Cerificate Number, Date of Naturalization,
Place of Naturalization, Name listed on Naturalization Certificate, and
USCIS Registration Number (also referred to as former Green Card number
or A number). Also provide copy of Naturalization Certificate or Green Card
for Spouse or Children.
9) List Financial Assets: Does applicant for visa own a home, own property,
own a business, own automobile(s)? If so, state what is owned and where
property or home is located. Does applicant have a checking or savings
account? State name of financial institution where accounts are located.
10) Provide same biographic information as listed in numbers 1-5 above for
siblings (brothers and sisters) of visa applicant(s), list same information for
parents.
11) Has a Relative Immigrant Visa (RIV) Petition (Form I-130) ever been filed
on behalf of the visa applicant? If so, by whom and when? Provide copy of
Fee Receipt Notice, or Notice of Action on the I-130 filing. What was the
outcome of filing, if known, or is case still pending?
12) Has an Immigrant Occupational Visa Petition (Form I-140) ever been filed on
behalf of the visa applicant? If so, by whom and when? Provide copy of
Fee Receipt Notice, or Notice of Action on the I-140 filing. What was the
outcome of filing, if known, or is case still pending?
13) Has the visa applicant ever visited the United States before and for what
purpose? If so, when, where, and for how long? Answer same questions
for multiple trips to the U.S.A.
14) Has the visa applicant ever visited another country and for what purpose? If
so, where, when and for how long? How many trips to each country visited
have they made, responding to where, when and for how long?
15) Has the visa applicant already visited the American Consulate to apply
for their visa? If so, when and what was the outcome? List multiple times
visits to Consulate were made concerning this matter and the outcome of
those visits.

[JohnMI]

Thanks for the quick responses, guys. I guess I can add a bit of information concerning the new visa application procedures which seem to be contrary to the advice given in the email response I received. I don't know the full details of the procedures employed previously, but we initially tried to make the visa applications and schedule the interviews in September. The Embassy web site indicated that changes were being implemented and we should not apply until October 20, 2012, I believe, and we should review the new rules that would be posted on the site at that time. Anyway, the application is now via a form that is completed online and submitted directly from the site. The form asks only basic questions concerning employment, immediate family, past travel to USA, do you plan to commit terrorism when you arrive in the USA (love that question!), etc. There are no areas where supplemental information can be added, and there is no provision for sending 'attachments' with the application. Thus, the other information I was told (in the later email) would have been helpful to demonstrate "ties" could not be submitted in advance. Thus, no one saw their property ownership records, bank records, etc., nor did anyone see my invitation letter. Thank you for the advice concerning that letter, by the way. If we try this again I will not include a pledge to financially support them, though I may write something long on emotion (describing how my wife has not seen her parents in a long time, and they have never met their step-grandchildren except through Skype) to see if that is helpful.
Vaughn, her parents have only traveled to Armenia and Georgia previously, though her mother will be visiting my wife's aunt in Paris next spring.
Goombah, interesting idea regarding split visitation. I'm sure my wife will not be thrilled with that idea, but it is something I will discuss with her tonight. Thank  you for the suggestion.
In the interim, I am going to ask the inlaws to scan to me copies of the documents they wished to present to the Embassy, and I'll then put together a package to send to my Rep and Senator to see if they might be able to assist in any way. Doubtful, but I'm open to any options at this point.
Thanks again, guys, and if you have any other ideas I'm more than willing to listen.

[JohnMI]

Thank you, Vaughn, for the list of additional information that would be helpful. I forgot to mention that we did have letters from her parents' employers stating that each works there, that each would be permitted to travel to the USA to visit their daughter, and that each would have their jobs waiting for them when they returned. Again, however, no way to present that with the online application and no willingness to look at it on the part of the interviewer.
I will go through the rest of your list and compile as much of that information as I can, however.

[Vaughn]

Anyway, the application is now via a form that is completed online and submitted directly from the site. The form asks only basic questions concerning employment, immediate family, past travel to USA, do you plan to commit terrorism when you arrive in the USA (love that question!), etc. There are no areas where supplemental information can be added, and there is no provision for sending 'attachments' with the application.

You would do the community a great service if you could post the link to that new form. From what you've written, it seems like, yeah, if there are no provisions for supplemental evidence how on earth can they evaluate the "ties" ???

[JohnMI]

Here is the relevant portion of an email I just received moments ago from the Embassy. Seems to be pointless at this juncture.
 
Please be informed that in order for the U.S. Consular officer to make a decision on whether the visa should be granted or not, the applicant must submit essential documents i.e. DS-160 confirmation page, international passport of the applicant as well as proof of payment of the application fee. Should the applicant wish to provide any other supporting documents, he/she may provide them only if the officer asks to do so.
 
At least they answer their emails quickly.
Here is the link to the new form, in case anyone is interested in the new procedure or the questions asked.
http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/visa-forms.html
 

[calmissile]

Intersting topic and we should stay on top of it to provide the latest info.
My G/F in Ukraine thinks her sister is getting a tourist visa in Novmeber to come to the US.
It will be interesting to see if she gets it and under what circumstances.
She will not even discuss it now for fear of upsetting the applecart.

[GoodOlBoy]

Why not go to the interview?
I went to my wife's K-1 over 7 years ago in Moscow.
No problems.
 
GOB

[ECOCKS]

Never ceases to amaze me how many people think they can guarantee the return of someone or that providing an invitation is going to accomplish anything.

Travel record, confident presentation and an interviewer having a good day are the necessary ingredients.

Focus the energy on the next effort rather than wasting your time raging and venting.

[calmissile]

Why not go to the interview?
I went to my wife's K-1 over 7 years ago in Moscow.
No problems.
 
GOB

It's for a Tourist Visa.  I am not aware that a sponsor can attend them.
It's also Ukriane, not Russia.
The State Department is not real happy about the imprisinment of political leaders in Ukraine.  Perhaps that has filetered down to the embassy staff. 
I understand that Russia is now much easier than Ukriane to get tourist visas.

[GoodOlBoy]

Travel record, confident presentation and an interviewer having a good day are the necessary ingredients.

Being a retired GYSGT (U.S.M.C.) doesn't hurt any either. 
 
GOB

PS.... Good to see you back ECOCKS!

[JohnMI]

ECOCKS,  you may have hit the nail on the head regarding the mood of the interviewer as I have no other explanation. Whether my wife will allow me to vent the little bit I have done here and then call it a day is the question, but her mood is better today and she told me we should waste no more money on an additional application so maybe this is over now.
 
Also, I knew there is no requirement for an invitation letter, but one of my mother-in-law's friends told her it would help so they asked me to send one to them for use at the interview. Obviously no one can guarantee their return, but I sent the letter on my law office letterhead thinking it might add some weight given that I could potentially lose my license to practice law were it determined that I lied on that letter. In any event, no one saw it so no harm done.
 
I'm done venting now. Thanks to all for listening and for your input.

[GoodOlBoy]

Before you leave, JohnMI, has your wife had any of her friends from Ukraine come to visit?
Just curious.
 
GOB

[ECOCKS]

Your Mother-In-Laws friends are probably from countries which use invitation letters as part of the visa process.

Since 90% of the documents they provide for qualifications, various proofs and the like are purchased or forged for the occasion they are at a disadvantage to understand why you don't know that you should put one in......

[JohnMI]

I'm not going anywhere, GOB. I've been nearly a daily lurker here for years, and I have no plans to quit.   
 
No, we have not yet had any visitors from Ukraine, though (surprisingly) in and around my small town of Punxsutawney my wife has met with several ladies from Ukraine. One is an alleged "bitter and angry woman" (suka lol) who my wife does not care to associate with, but the others are fairly common visitors to the house. My wife's cousin and her young son planned to visit us next summer, but I don't know whether today's revelations will change her plans. I can say that her cousin is very well-off, financially, and has traveled extensively (Italy, France, Turkey, Egypt, Russia, Georgia). She also plans to leave her husband home at his work so maybe her chances will be better.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am sorry for your troubles guy.
 
Your wife must be heartbroken.
 
I guess Ukraine is completely different from Russia?
 
My wife has had a total of 11 RW visit us here. Mostly from Omsk, but a few from Moscow.
 
Heck, once they found out Marina was in Miami, it was like Grand Central Station here for a while.
 
I was sending out "invitation letters" with "itineraries" like crazy. 
 
My wife went on a cruise with 2 of her best friends from Moscow, some of the others we took down to Key West and others we took up to Universal Studios/Disney World.
 
Bottom line, none of them were denied a tourist visa to the GoodOl' USA.
 
Maybe somebody else will come along on your thread with some good advice.
 
I wish you the best.
 
GOB

[Gator]

My Russian MIL and SIL recently completed a 4-week visit with us in Florida.   Their visas were granted without delay.  They did say some other petitioners were denied while they waited for their turn to be interviewed.
 
The two petitioned the consulate in Yekaterinburg.  I initially proposed to complete the application for them.  However, my wife, who knows everything  , said it would be best to use an agency.  So MIL and SIL used a local agency named "Pony Express" who did all the paperwork.
 
Particulars:  Neither speaks English and neither has ever traveled outside the USSR/Russia.  SIL has a fairly high position with the Federal prison system for women.  MIL has not worked in decades.  Neither has money to flaunt, just a little cash in bank account, but more under the mattress. 
 
The FIL stayed in Russia where he spent many days socializing with his friends and later recovering at the local sanatorium.  The SIL has a son and grandson but no husband.
 
They took to the interview a letter from me stating that I would be responsible for their travel and medical expenses.  No one attended the interview other than the two of them.
 
Perhaps the keys for their success were being from Russia, FIL staying home, and using a local agency who has prepared many tourist visa applications. 

 

[JohnMI]

GOB, I lived in Miami 9 years while going to grad school, law school and then working a bit so I can definitely relate to all the visitors appearing at my door (especially during the winter months). Each time I felt like I was back in my undergrad frat house! I'm surprised how easy it seems for Russian citizens to get tourist visas, but it is what it is. You mentioned the Keys ... is the Whale Harbor Inn still open at Islamorada? I used to love to go there to wolf down a ton of crab legs and top them off with several of those mini key lime pies. 
 
Gator, my MIL spoke to a visa agency about helping them. The agency wanted $850 USD to prepare the application. Both MIL and wife vetoed that idea. I really don't think it would have made a difference, and I wonder whether a different interviewer would have decided the applications differently.