Cheating and sex on the side (Moscow culture)

[andyman]

Both me and my wife are well off financially. We both come from upper parts of society (she in Moscow), I come from western europe.

I just have a short question: My impression is that some people we meet in Moscow have small flings, sex and so on. My wife travels often to Moscow (we still have our apartment there) and she goes to a lot of nightclubs with her friends.

My question is this; How is the present day culture in Moscow in these circles? How is extra marital sex seen there? We have been married 6 months, and she recently started to live fulltime together with me.

I want to underline the fact i am not jealous. And she knows i am sexually liberal. I morethan this stated on some occasions that it is no problem to give her the freedom to have fun on the side.

My question is more about how this is perceived in upper circles of Moscow. Someone with knowledge, please explain a little bit about the culture around this is Moscow.

Thank so much for any replies here.

[Eduard]

It all depends on who you ask. Different people have different values. Sure people have affairs in Russia. People are people and anything you can find in your own country you will find in Russia. If you want to have an open marriage anyway, then what's the difference?

[Shadow]

As with so many things, it is more common knowledge that it happens, and hidden less as in the West.
No idea if it happens more or less, just the hiding seems less important.

[ghost of moon goddess]

I tend to distinguish between the ladder of income and the morality ladder.
Being placed up high on one ladder doesn't necessarily result in being at the top level of another one. In many cases they don't merge into one, believe you me 

[andyman]

This about the openness about things. That is what i maybe understand is so different than in western culture. And about moral etc, i come from northern parts of Europe, and i know cheating is a favorite sport in any city. But it seems more like it is out in the open in another way in Moscow. Am i right, or have i misunderstood this?

[Belvis]

I just have a short question: My impression is that some people we meet in Moscow have small flings, sex and so on.

My question is more about how this is perceived in upper circles of Moscow.

First, there are no  upper circles in Moscow. There are wealthy people, poor people and of average income. However all the difference has come in the first generation so that all of them share the same morality. Money does not change  the perception. Second, nobody really cares about extramarital affairs of somebody else's spose. I mean it's the family business, a spose makes his/her own choice with no marked pressure from society.  My personal view is that Moscow nightclubs leisure-time does not match well with fidelity, but it's just a bias, not a certain thing.

[tfcrew]

Happens in Wash DC too.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/paula-broadwell-the-woman-behind-cia-director-david-petraeuss-exit/304909-2.html

[Slumba]

Seems odd - why bother to get married?

[newjason]

Doesn't going to a nightclub kind of imply that you are looking to hook up?  I was pretty sure that's why you go to these places right? I mean you don't go there for the culture, the drinks, or the interesting conversations. 

[Eduard]

Doesn't going to a nightclub kind of imply that you are looking to hook up?  I was pretty sure that's why you go to these places right? I mean you don't go there for the culture, the drinks, or the interesting conversations. 

Plenty of women go just to hang out with girlfriends have a drink, conversation and dance. It really doesn't mean that they are looking to hook up. Can it happen? Sure, under the right circumstances. But as I said before you can't generalise this kind of stuff. It's the same with AW going to a club on a "girl's night out". They just go to hang out with friends and have fun and normally are not looking to hook up. But some of them may hook up if the "right" guy happens to come along and she just happens to be open to that sort of thing. Some women will stay faithful other won't. Same with Russian women.

[newjason]

fai

Plenty of women go just to hang out with girlfriends have a drink, conversation and dance. It really doesn't mean that they are looking to hook up. Can it happen? Sure, under the right circumstances. But as I said before you can't generalise this kind of stuff. It's the same with AW going to a club on a "girl's night out". They just go to hang out with friends and have fun and normally are not looking to hook up. But some of them may hook up if the "right" guy happens to come along and she just happens to be open to that sort of thing. Some women will stay faithful other won't. Same with Russian women.

Fair enough.
Then I would like to know your thoughts on how the term : meat market : came to be associated with these places.

[Eduard]

faiFair enough.
Then I would like to know your thoughts on how the term : meat market : came to be associated with these places.

There are different types of night clubs. Some are just known to be singles spots to meet other singles, others are just nice places with nice atmosphere and good music where friends can meet, have a drink and spend some time together catching up. I'm not saying that it's impossible to meet some one at a place like that, but I think that different people go to night clubs for different reasons and they are not always to pick up or to get picked up. Many Russian women love to dance. They enjoy dressing up and going dancing with boyfriends, husbands or just a few girlfriends together when their men don't want to come with them. All I'm saying is that just the fact that the OP's wife goes out with friends when in Moscow does not necessarily mean that she does that to meet men.

[mies]

Both me and my wife are well off financially. We both come from upper parts of society (she in Moscow), I come from western europe.

I just have a short question: My impression is that some people we meet in Moscow have small flings, sex and so on. My wife travels often to Moscow (we still have our apartment there) and she goes to a lot of nightclubs with her friends.

My question is this; How is the present day culture in Moscow in these circles? How is extra marital sex seen there? We have been married 6 months, and she recently started to live fulltime together with me.

I want to underline the fact i am not jealous. And she knows i am sexually liberal. I morethan this stated on some occasions that it is no problem to give her the freedom to have fun on the side.

My question is more about how this is perceived in upper circles of Moscow. Someone with knowledge, please explain a little bit about the culture around this is Moscow.

Thank so much for any replies here.

Probably, among other factors, this depends on how old is she, and how old are you.

I do not think that going to the night club should be equated to cheating. Also, I doubt that a person 6 months after the wedding already starts looking for extramarital affairs. Unless this person is particularly dissatisfied with married life but for some reasons cannot divorce. Another possibility can be that there are "old friends with benefits" - but in that case, there is no need to go to night clubs.
So, basically, unless you are making your new wife very unhappy in the bedroom, I do not think that she is cheating on you, or is attempting to cheat on you. Most likely, she just misses her friends and social experience, especially she misses the flashy/glamorous Moscow night life, which (my gut feeling tells me) is much brighter than the nightlife in your Northern European city/town. Moscow is known to be "crazy/wild", everything to the extreme: power, money, beauty, showing off, etc. Western Northern Europe isn't like that at all.

I've been to some clubs in Europe, many years ago, so memories have faded. Clubs in USA are mediocre at best, comparing to what's available back at FSU. Clubs in USA may or may not have the "big fish" people, but they usually lack in vibe and atmosphere.

[newjason]

There are different types of night clubs. Some are just known to be singles spots to meet other singles, others are just nice places with nice atmosphere and good music where friends can meet, have a drink and spend some time together catching up. I'm not saying that it's impossible to meet some one at a place like that, but I think that different people go to night clubs for different reasons and they are not always to pick up or to get picked up. Many Russian women love to dance. They enjoy dressing up and going dancing with boyfriends, husbands or just a few girlfriends together when their men don't want to come with them. All I'm saying is that just the fact that the OP's wife goes out with friends when in Moscow does not necessarily mean that she does that to meet men.

True.
It doesn't necessarily mean that she is not there to meet men either.
Either way,  being in a place like that certainly does raise the number of opportunities to stray.

[jone]

I hate the term 'Oligarch' because most of the people whom that term would apply to don't fit my perceptions.  But my experience with the more affluent set in Moskva would fit into two categories.  Those who have so much money that they don't care what anyone else thinks and those who have lots of money but are responsible in their lives.  The former would probably not care what happened and to whom.  But the latter seem to be much more reserved when it comes to extra-marital affairs.  In either situation, it has never been a big deal.  But I do not have a broad range of knowledge as I am 1. An American and 2.  I always go to the same nightclub.

My top business associate has been involved in a series of flings since long before I knew him.  He is on his second marriage, his wife is on her third.  They fight like cats and dogs and he told me once that if he ever found out that his wife was cheating on him, he would shoot her.  I kinda believed him.

[jone]

Oh, while I'm at it, can someone tell me what that little Flaming Desert that they serve at Puskin's is called?

[ghost of moon goddess]

Maybe the flaming dessert you are referring to is "Creme brulee with strawberry" ?! Caramel dome comes to you on a plate and before it is served the waiter lights it on fire right at your table.

[Gator]

I want to underline the fact i am not jealous. And she knows i am sexually liberal. I morethan this stated on some occasions that it is no problem to give her the freedom to have fun on the side.

My question is more about how this is perceived in upper circles of Moscow. Someone with knowledge, please explain a little bit about the culture around this is Moscow.

This is so strange!  If you are so liberal, why would you care about the opinions of others?   

If she is being groomed by Moscow elite for future positions of leadership in Russian politics or business, I am sure her mentors will help her correct mistakes before serious damage is done.
 
I know of only one Moscow RW who has very wealthy parents.   A local student about 20-yo.  I understand from reliable source that she readily jumps into bed with new partners and is especially fond of Hispanic students (a novelty compared to students she knew when in Moscow).   The RW opinion of her is that she is not serious.
 
Caution:   This is only one woman.   I would classify her behavior as immaturity given her young age and the fact that she has never known the economic hardship of the typical FSUW dated by RWD men.   Quite possibly when she is ready for a serious relationship with children, she will be faithful.

[Eduard]

True.
It doesn't necessarily mean that she is not there to meet men either.
Either way,  being in a place like that certainly does raise the number of opportunities to stray.

The same can be said for a library, book store or a grocery store... Some people shop for dates in those places, doesn't mean anything though, does it?
I still don't understand why it is important anyway since the OP is pushing the open marriage concept upon their marriage... Or is this some kind of psychological game he is playing? Tell her that she is free to screw around and watch if she will remain loyal to him anyway, or will take him up on his offer? Personally I think that this is exactly what's going on here - he is testing her. Then if he finds out that she did stray, there will be this whole guilt trip agenda till the relationship ends. And it will end IMO.


To the OP, sorry if I'm wrong but you did post this on the open forum asking for opinions, so you have mine now 

[Belvis]

he is testing her. Then if he finds out that she did stray, there will be this whole guilt trip agenda till the relationship ends.

In fact OP has asked about Moscow  tolerance to cheating. No more no less     
So why to speculate?

[ECOCKS]

Doesn't going to a nightclub kind of imply that you are looking to hook up?  I was pretty sure that's why you go to these places right? I mean you don't go there for the culture, the drinks, or the interesting conversations. 

You've never been an expat.......

That isn't remotely meant as a slap or rebuke, just a comment that sometimes one man's "nightclub" is another man's (woman's) spot for meeting friends and catching up on gossip and news.

There are even some who go solely based upon the backstock of pours and brews available. I went to Golden Gate mostly for the monthly cheeseburger (until I started dropping into Fridays) and their Steak and Egg breakfast on weekends.

Students get sucked along into going hoping to meet native-speakers and get into some good conversations.

[Gator]

Oh, while I'm at it, can someone tell me what that little Flaming Desert that they serve at Puskin's is called?

Moon Goddess seems correct based on the menu:   http://www.cafe-pushkin.ru/en/flb//srv/3/3o4s88a8p.2011_.pdf
 
If you want to impress your woman, you can prepare Bananas Foster for her.   Every ingredient can be readily obtained in the FSU except  dark rum (buy at duty free when leaving the USA) and banana liqueur (substitute another liqueur or extract). 

[ML]

Anyway, for any affair; if you want to keep it a secret . . .
Ask the head of the CIA to help you.
If he can't do it, no one can.

[TheTraveler]

I want to underline the fact i am not jealous. And she knows i am sexually liberal. I morethan this stated on some occasions that it is no problem to give her the freedom to have fun on the side.

why did you get married ?
 

[jone]

Sorry to be 'off-topic' but it was the Caramel Dome that I was looking for.  Yummy.  I've been looking forward to that again and the fruit that is served in the tea.  Can't get that here in the States.  Unless you get it in Lemonade.