Food For Thought - A New Golden Age For Russia

[ECOCKS]

Ed, why "cabal-like"? Why not just a regular businesslike meeting? Why does this seem so unbelievable? I grew up in the Soviet Union where things were ALWAYS presented one way to the public while the reality was very different behind closed doors. I happened to think that human nature is the same all over with just some slight cultural variations. The same type of people rises to the top in any culture/country and I trust my common sense more than I trust the media or politicians. I think that there used to be some checks and balances in place here in the US when the main stream media was more independent and more objective but nowdays it seems to be not that much different from Putin's media in Russia.
I'd like to ask you, Ed, why do you think it's a conspiracy, or a theory? Is it not a fact that the Fed is an independent financial corporation who is not part of the US government, who has the power to create money (an unchecked amount of US dollars - the world currency)and influence (or maybe dictate would be more accurate?) the US economic policy as well as the rest of the world? An independent money printing corporation that does not get audited, who's corporate members' identity is kept secret?
Do you not find anything questionnable here, Ed?

Nope, but if you get hold of one of their super-secret, Tripartite decoder rings with the Masonic symbol which can unravel this nefarious plot, be sure to pass it along here on the forum.

[Eduard]

Nope, but if you get hold of one of their super-secret, Tripartite decoder rings with the Masonic symbol which can unravel this nefarious plot, be sure to pass it along here on the forum.

Now you just want to diminish the real life, undesputed questionable issue by adding "conspiracy" to it.

[Noch1]

I think you are confusing the two countries.
Yes Hi powered officials from western countries,will make millions form their contacts in the future.
To think they get a 100 million slush fund is yes a conspiracy theory. Which you welcome to believe.

Russia and the other FSU countries are outright corrupt. Stealing directly from the people.

Look What happened in Egypt.  That is how it changes and stops.
When the regular folks, finely say, that's enough!

With the levels of corruption in the FSU, a couple of honest people will never fix it!
It will take a revolt at some level. Most people who grew up with it, live with and think it
can't and won't change and that they do not have the power to change it.

But the younger generations, will see it different. They live on the internet.
they read, what the world reads. They will begin to understand they are working to be Robbed from.
by the people who are supposed to be protecting and building their country.

At some point in the future, they will say enough! It won't be fun and it won't be pretty.
But it is the only way it will every even begin to change!

[Eduard]

I think you are confusing the two countries.
Yes Hi powered officials from western countries,will make millions form their contacts in the future.
To think they get a 100 million slush fund is yes a conspiracy theory. Which you welcome to believe.

Russia and the other FSU countries are outright corrupt. Stealing directly from the people.

Look What happened in Egypt.  That is how it changes and stops.
When the regular folks, finely say, that's enough!

With the levels of corruption in the FSU, a couple of honest people will never fix it!
It will take a revolt at some level. Most people who grew up with it, live with and think it
can't and won't change and that they do not have the power to change it.

But the younger generations, will see it different. They live on the internet.
they read, what the world reads. They will begin to understand they are working to be Robbed from.
by the people who are supposed to be protecting and building their country.

At some point in the future, they will say enough! It won't be fun and it won't be pretty.
But it is the only way it will every even begin to change!

just in case you didn't know every man, woman and child in the US is $50 in debt thanks to our goverment's spending policies. And it's going to get much worse now that our great leader has been reelected.
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/sep/19/john-boehner/john-boehner-says-obama-engaged-spending-binge-ran/

[Noch1]

just in case you didn't know every man, woman and child in the US is $50 in debt thanks to our goverment's spending policies. And it's going to get much worse now that our great leader has been reelected.
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/sep/19/john-boehner/john-boehner-says-obama-engaged-spending-binge-ran/

Actually I think it is closer to 150,000 per. But now your talking something different.
Bad leadership! They didn't steal the six trillion over the last for years.
But they, spent it!, maybe just is bad, but again. not the same.

When speaking of Russia, sad thing is, it is great country.
Now imagine what they could do if they spent half of what the stole!
On the people and the country.

[Eduard]

Actually I think it is closer to 150,000 per. But now your talking something different.
Bad leadership! They didn't steal the six trillion over the last for years.
But they, spent it!, maybe just is bad, but again. not the same.

When speaking of Russia, sad thing is, it is great country.
Now imagine what they could do if they spent half of what the stole!
On the people and the country.

Things might be very different in Russia if Russian ruble was the world reserve currency, ever thought of that?
I understand how you feel, Noch. I used to feel the way you do -  thinking that Russia is all corrupt and therefor bad while the US was all good with very little corruption and really stood for truth, freedom and the persuite of happiness. Sadly I found out that this isn't exactly the case and the recent history showed us that people can be just as corrupt in the US and politics is where it's at if you wanna get rich quick.
You cay "they didn't steal the six trillion over the last 4 years"? Because they didn't need to! When you can create money by printing it or just make a deposit of any sum of money into any account where money is digital and is made out of thin air, why would there be the need to steal?

[ML]

Eduard, I am really sorry to see your continued comments along this line of thought you have.

It disappoints me to think that no amount of time living in USA will change people away from their Soviet mentality.

So sad.

[Eduard]

Eduard, I am really sorry to see your continued comments along this line of thought you have.

It disappoints me to think that no amount of time living in USA will change people away from their Soviet mentality.

So sad.

I deleted my post, no use to get into an argument about this here

[jone]

I am absolutely amazed that Putin can eat a seven course dinner and still stay trim.

One of the greatest changes, in Russia, that grew out of the fall of the Soviet Union is the private ownership of land.  Not only can you buy land, but you can also perfect title on it.   On the surface, such ownership looks to be just another gimmee to the masses, but in judicial review after judicial review, this ownership is being upheld.

I fully agree with the corruption statements.  The rape of Shell Oil and the amount of money coming from Siberia is astounding.   There was three quarters of a trillion in petro dollars in a 'stabilization' fund that was liquidated to keep the ruble afloat when the first recession hit.  Now that fund is rebuilt and continues to grow.

That stabilization fund will create something never before seen in an FSU country - an ability for entrepeneurship.  Having experienced the Russian economy first hand, I am confident that the entrepeneurial model will be alive inspite of restrictions placed on NGOs and others.  This is what makes Russia a BRIC country.

[Eduard]

I am absolutely amazed that Putin can eat a seven course dinner and still stay trim.

One of the greatest changes, in Russia, that grew out of the fall of the Soviet Union is the private ownership of land.  Not only can you buy land, but you can also perfect title on it.   On the surface, such ownership looks to be just another gimmee to the masses, but in judicial review after judicial review, this ownership is being upheld.

I fully agree with the corruption statements.  The rape of Shell Oil and the amount of money coming from Siberia is astounding.   There was three quarters of a trillion in petro dollars in a 'stabilization' fund that was liquidated to keep the ruble afloat when the first recession hit.  Now that fund is rebuilt and continues to grow.

That stabilization fund will create something never before seen in an FSU country - an ability for entrepeneurship.  Having experienced the Russian economy first hand, I am confident that the entrepeneurial model will be alive inspite of restrictions placed on NGOs and others.  This is what makes Russia a BRIC country.

Jon, so you feel that Russia's future is bright and prosperous? What about the US?

[jone]

Jon, so you feel that Russia's future is bright and prosperous? What about the US?

Dunno.  I, as many did, moved money out of the US when Obama was elected.  One of my best friends moved everything out of the country, liquidated his holdings.  He was super wealthy and a very famous Russian investor.  And they wonder why noone is investing in the US.  The first words out of Obama's mouth:  We're going to raise taxes on the wealthy.  It is stupid not to take him at face value. 

The rate of return on Russian investments is 4/1 in favor of those in the US.  And safer than you could imagine if you own the banking operations.  But I just got a Visa for Brazil.  I would like to look at infrastructure investments down there.  That is what (believe it or not) Amazon.com has done.
I hear the women aren't too bad either although I think I'm pretty tied up now.

All of my company's computer consulting is done in India.  I pay $15 per hour for a group of the 'most expensive' programmers.  They are very good.

We use Great Britain for our financing - there are some attractive loopholes there for foreign people using their investment systems.

But to refresh the thread topic, Putin's government continues to make it attractive for investors.  For those who can get around the old saying about investing in Russian business:  "We get the money, you get the experience."

[Belvis]

Eduard, I am really sorry to see your continued comments along this line of thought you have.

It disappoints me to think that no amount of time living in USA will change people away from their Soviet mentality.

My guess is that those people were disappointed too finding no reasons to change their "Soviet" mentality. Some trends are similar in both countries though served under different  sauces.

[calmissile]

Dunno.  I, as many did, moved money out of the US when Obama was elected.  One of my best friends moved everything out of the country, liquidated his holdings.  He was super wealthy and a very famous Russian investor.  And they wonder why noone is investing in the US.  The first words out of Obama's mouth:  We're going to raise taxes on the wealthy.  It is stupid not to take him at face value. 

The rate of return on Russian investments is 4/1 in favor of those in the US.  And safer than you could imagine if you own the banking operations.  But I just got a Visa for Brazil.  I would like to look at infrastructure investments down there.  That is what (believe it or not) Amazon.com has done.
I hear the women aren't too bad either although I think I'm pretty tied up now.

All of my company's computer consulting is done in India.  I pay $15 per hour for a group of the 'most expensive' programmers.  They are very good.

We use Great Britain for our financing - there are some attractive loopholes there for foreign people using their investment systems.

But to refresh the thread topic, Putin's government continues to make it attractive for investors.  For those who can get around the old saying about investing in Russian business:  "We get the money, you get the experience."

Interesting and educational post.  Few people on the forum seem to have first hand experience in doing business in Russia and Ukraine.  It's beneficial to some of us that have tossed around the idea of starting a business in either or both countries.

What exactly does this statement mean?
And safer than you could imagine if you own the banking operations.

Also, have never heard this expression so you might explain the meaning of it.
"We get the money, you get the experience."

Thanks again for your inputs.

[jone]

What exactly does this statement mean?
And safer than you could imagine if you own the banking operations.

Also, have never heard this expression so you might explain the meaning of it.
"We get the money, you get the experience."

Thanks again for your inputs.

The banking operations that I (and my associates) use to facilitate investments in Russia are in a Russian Bank, owned by an American.  The owner is accessible and above reproach.  And his Russian junior partners are also above reproach and very well connected.  Accordingly it is much easier to purchase real property, to buy ongoing businesses and to create the necessary connections to make sure that the bureaucrats don't confiscate that which you are building.

The story of the above American individual is almost a fable in the oblast that he operates out of.  If this weren't a public forum, I might be inclined to share it.  It is one of reaching across the oceans and building up a community - a people - from afar.  I have great respect for this man and what he has done.

The answer to your second question is that it is a punchline to an old russian joke about foreign investors that I translated very poorly.  It essentially says those foreigners wishing for the experience of investing money in Russia will be welcomed.  "We will keep the money and give you the experience."

Ha!

[Belvis]

The answer to your second question is that it is a punchline to an old russian joke about foreign investors that I translated very poorly.  It essentially says those foreigners wishing for the experience of investing money in Russia will be welcomed.  "We will keep the money and give you the experience."

The joke  (well, rather caveat) means: your russian investments will give you the experience in return for your lost money.

[jone]

The joke  (well, rather caveat) means: your russian investments will give you the experience in return for your lost money.

Da, eto pravda.

[Noch1]

I did not say there was not corruption in the US or other western countries.
But comparing that, to which happens in the Russia or the FSU, is not quite at the same level.
I will steal, I will change the laws, so you can't speak about my stealing, Please!

When is the last time, someone you know did not get paid in the US.
Because the owner of the company said, tight this week?

The examples can be many. My point is not that Governments are perfect in the West.
Shit, NO! But what is happening there is insane!

[Eduard]

I did not say there was not corruption in the US or other western countries.
But comparing that, to which happens in the Russia or the FSU, is not quite at the same level.
I will steal, I will change the laws, so you can't speak about my stealing, Please!

I agree that corruption in Russia (and especially in Ukraine) is more prominent than in the US or the Canada 
But this is not happening because Russians are a different breed of people. When American cops were getting paid pretty low wages in the 60s and 70s corruption was just as bad among them. Most of them were on the take then. Now that their salaries are a decent living wage corruption is low, simply because having a good paying job and all the benefits outweighs the risk of losing it if they get caught taking a bribe or doing anything else illegal. Put the cops back on a $15K a year salary and you will have American cops act just like Russian cops - soliciting bribes, etc. etc. People do what they have to do to survive, support their families or just get ahead in life. It's human nature and Americans are no different from Russians in that regard.   It's the same deal with government bureaucrats, etc.

When is the last time, someone you know did not get paid in the US.
Because the owner of the company said, tight this week?

Evidently you've never run your own business! I ran a company from 1990 till 2002 manufacturing a product and selling it through several distribution companies. I had a 30 day net term with most and a 90 day net with a couple. It was a standart business practice for them not to pay amounts due for as long as possible. It took countless hours and even threats on some occasions to get the money out of them.
Basically if they can screw you, they will screw you and that's just the way it is at least in my own experience. Just think about it. Almost no one in the US does business on a hand shake, you sign a contract for every little thing here all because people and businesses know that you can't trust any one. If they can get over on you there is a good chance that they will.

[Noch1]

Actually, I am self employed!! I was not talking business. I was talking workers.
You are self employed, see how long your people stay, if their check is not there on Payday!
See how long it takes for the labour board to deal with you after, they get a compliant!
If your going bankrupt, you might get away with it.
In Ukraine and Russia in the 21st century!!! It still happens weekly!
The big boss, says here's what your getting this week, have a nice day!

As for the cops you are right. But answer this.
Tell me one level of Government that won't take a bribe?
From the marriage office, to speed up the 30 day wait.
To the cop, who outright hustles for bribes, to being shake down
if you own a business.
I asked a girl who owns shops in Odessa one time, how bad the Mafia is on collecting.
No she swore there is no Mafia in Odessa. This conversation went back and forth for a few days.
She swore no Mafia. ( there was some language barrier issues ) Finally  we got it sorted out.
The local Government and cops, managed to get rid of the local Mafia.
They were strong enough ( not sure how true that is) Ya so she paid her %
to the Local cops daily, because she owned 5 shops, she paid higher ranking officer.
the one's who only own 1, pay the beat cop! The ones who have bars or higher end business
pay the chief or mayor or in some cases higher. not a question if you pay, its who and how much.

Edward go to your local agency, ask the girl at the counter, if she can get you paper work tomorrow for 100 dollars, come back tell me how it went.
Or better yet, get on the highway, speed till pulled over and see if the same 100 will get you on your way!
I am sure it happens but good odds if you were persistent, you would get handcuffs.

I have met many people, and I would be happy to see that level of corruption stop.
But it runs deep at every level, not an easy fix.

[ECOCKS]

Eduard, I am really sorry to see your continued comments along this line of thought you have.

It disappoints me to think that no amount of time living in USA will change people away from their Soviet mentality.

So sad.

+1

[ECOCKS]

I agree that corruption in Russia (and especially in Ukraine) is more prominent than in the US or the Canada 
But this is not happening because Russians are a different breed of people. When American cops were getting paid pretty low wages in the 60s and 70s corruption was just as bad among them. Most of them were on the take then. Now that their salaries are a decent living wage corruption is low, simply because having a good paying job and all the benefits outweighs the risk of losing it if they get caught taking a bribe or doing anything else illegal. Put the cops back on a $15K a year salary and you will have American cops act just like Russian cops - soliciting bribes, etc. etc. People do what they have to do to survive, support their families or just get ahead in life. It's human nature and Americans are no different from Russians in that regard.   It's the same deal with government bureaucrats, etc.

Evidently you've never run your own business! I ran a company from 1990 till 2002 manufacturing a product and selling it through several distribution companies. I had a 30 day net term with most and a 90 day net with a couple. It was a standart business practice for them not to pay amounts due for as long as possible. It took countless hours and even threats on some occasions to get the money out of them.
Basically if they can screw you, they will screw you and that's just the way it is at least in my own experience. Just think about it. Almost no one in the US does business on a hand shake, you sign a contract for every little thing here all because people and businesses know that you can't trust any one. If they can get over on you there is a good chance that they will.

Sorry, Ed but that's pure horses***.


At it's worst in Chicago or New York almost a century ago there "might" have been something approaching the level of corruption which is institutionalized in the FSU but there has never been as widespread, systematic corruption as we see in almost every aspect of life in the FSU. Business, housing, privatization, policemen assisting with murder, traffic cops making quotas [of bribes], getting your pipes or elevator repaired in your building, yada, yada, yada.....


Ever.


You read a few too many Pravdas in your youth old boy.

[Hammer2722]

In FSU, the norm for solving cases is for the cops to beat the confession out of the "suspect". I've never ever read or heard of this ever being the norm at any time in this country's history.

[ECOCKS]

Now you just want to diminish the real life, undesputed questionable issue by adding "conspiracy" to it.

I said it plainly Ed, I don't believe there is anything sinister or conspiratorial about it. It's nothing more than a bureaucratic institution growing into a self-sustaining entity which needs to be trimmed down a bit, audited for efficiency and redesigned a bit.

[Jack]

I'm curious to know if anyone has any documents, reliable reports or studies to support that the majority of police in America during the 60's and 70's were corrupt. This is the first I have heard of this and frankly find it hard to believe.

[jone]

The 60s and 70s kinda outdate me, but, sorry Ed, you're outvoted on this one.  I know what you were trying to say, but I grew up in a family where my father was the judge for the entire county.  If there was any corruption going on, we would have known about it.  The law enforcement officers for the area that I grew up in were greatly respected - and never bribed or on the take.

On a side note, when I am in Russia, I am always given a driver.  (Probably because they don't want me to get lost.)  Three summers ago, I was there, and Yevgeny was our driver.   We had just left the outskirts of Moscow, when, sure enough, there was a speed trap set up - one where they just signal you to the side of the road.  Yevgeny pulls the car up, and pulls out the money.  The guy looks at him and says in Russian 'You're my 10th guy, I have to write you a ticket!'  In other words, I fleeced the first nine, but to keep the government running, I have to write a ticket occasionally.  Poor Yevgeny,  it was his birthday and he had to report to his employers that he received this ticket.