Tipping in FSU

[CDW]

That happened to us just last week. We got in a taxi and after we arrived at the destination my girl asked how much and he obviously raised the price after hearing me speaking English. She was quite frustrated and when i asked what happened, she informed me that he must have raised the price after hearing me speak.

That's why my ex-girlfriend told me not to speak at all.  Let her do the talking!

In Colombia, they cannot cheat you with price, because they have meters and price-sheet in the back of the sit.  I wish they have the same in Ukraine.  (unless of course, they drove detour to fool me)

[Chicagoguy]

I think the taxi scene at Moscow airports is disgusting. I either arrange for a ride before time or take the shuttle train into town and take my chances with a railroad taxi for shorter distances. Meter taxi's are expensive.
Once in town I flag down passing private drivers.
 
 

[Faux Pas]

This thread has enlightened me to two things; 1 - most of you guys are cheapskates and 2 - it's blatantly obvious few of you have ever worked in the service industry.

Where tipping is concerned, "when in Rome" does not apply. When abroad you should tip just as you do back home. Oh, you are not Ukrainian? Then don't tip like one. If a Ukrainian is looking on and thinks you a braggart for flashing a 20% tip, eFF'em.

So what if the waitress receives a salary. Do you expect her to work for free? Is she expected to feed her kids from your measly 5-10%

When I walk into a restaurant or sit at a bar, just from entering I've added 20% on the total of my bill. That 20% can work either up or down depending on the level of service I get. YES, 20% is the standard from which you should tip from. A 10% tip in the US is pretty much telling the server the same thing a zero tip does.

Never tip a waitress on the quality of the food unless she prepared it for you. Only the quality of the service.

If you are an American, tip like one and don't make cheesy excuses why you didn't

[jone]

FP,

Your sentiments are spot on.  We should set a standard for taking care of service providers.  However, in the United States, service providers are paid a lower wage in expectation of tipping.  Accordingly, your standards for tipping in the United States is appropriate.  Should a Ukrainian come to the United States, should they not tip, simply because tipping is not in vogue in their country?  I think not.

So, when in Ukraine, should you tip the same standard that you do in the US?  It just doesn't make sense.  You may be an American, but you should adhere to the common standards of society. 

My take on it is that a tip is a bonus for exemplary service.  I am happy to give a substantial tip, but I am not going to give if for standard or substandard service as we are expected to do in the US. The customs for the locals do not equate.  And NOONE calls me cheap.  I think you may have guessed that already. Hah! 

P.S. - When I was growing up I did work for tips.  I always made a substantial amount more than my cohorts because I gave extraordinary service and did so with a smile on my face.

[Faux Pas]

FP,

Your sentiments are spot on.  We should set a standard for taking care of service providers.  However, in the United States, service providers are paid a lower wage in expectation of tipping.  Accordingly, your standards for tipping in the United States is appropriate.  Should a Ukrainian come to the United States, should they not tip, simply because tipping is not in vogue in their country?  I think not.

I agree with you. But, the question(s) I gathered were from an American tipping in Ukraine. Personally, I think Ukrainians, Russians and everyone else should catch up with the times on service and tipping

So, when in Ukraine, should you tip the same standard that you do in the US?  It just doesn't make sense.  You may be an American, but you should adhere to the common standards of society. 

Yes. Here's a little factoid about me  It doesn't matter and it never fails whether I am alone or a member of a group. "I" will get the worse service if there is any to be had. It's a running point of comic relief among my family and circle of friends. I don't bitch, complain and I never return a meal. My regular servers know me to be easy to please and a good tipper. Ukrainians who choose to not tip or short tip will soon enough learn that there is a direct correlation to tipping and the service you receive. I would suggest to them, catch up with the times.

My take on it is that a tip is a bonus for exemplary service.  I am happy to give a substantial tip, but I am not going to give if for standard or substandard service as we are expected to do in the US. The customs for the locals do not equate.  And NOONE calls me cheap.  I think you may have guessed that already. Hah! 

jone, you get no free passes because you are abroad. Good standard tipping is decency. Kind of equates to personal hygiene. I start at 20% and I can go up for exemplary service or I can go down for bad service. The service dictates what I do. When I see these guys tipping 10% for good service, they should be ashamed of themselves. If one has an aversion to tipping, stay out of the places where you'll be served.

P.S. - When I was growing up I did work for tips.  I always made a substantial amount more than my cohorts because I gave extraordinary service and did so with a smile on my face.

I've done my share of bartending and waiting tables in my early years. People can be such dicks when it comes to tipping. Having experienced it first hand, if a server gets shorted from me, it's their fault 

[ECOCKS]

I tip 20% when service is exemplary relative to the location. If I go to a place where I'm eating a $75 steak, the service has to be considerably better than Denny's for me to tip  more than 10%. Indifferent service leads to an indifferent tip.


OTOH, if I go to Denny's and the waitress is friendly, brings my food promptly (still hot), checks to be sure things are satisfactory, thinks to bring napkins or syrups and keeps the coffee cup filled, 10% is the lowest I go. I've been known to tip 200% if I have "camped" on the table for a long period, blocking the server away from other tickets.


Again, my wife has been astonished when I have dropped a $10 after a couple of hours when all we had was a $2 cup of coffee and a cup of tea. So, I see Jone's point about how they will still tip according to their standards (often meaning no tip at all). Of course, she is very proud that I usually put away about 5 refills in that time to get my money;s worth but....

[anm8tr]

While I sympathize with the assessments regarding tipping, I suggest reading a little history on the subject. Where it got started, when and why. It seems that is has gotten completely out of control in the US especially to put it mildly, go figure! Everything is done to the extreme here. Restaurants have a fairly high markup on food, drinks etc etc. and yet tend to pay workers low wages while expecting customers to make the difference. Sorry, but nowhere is it written in any etiquette rule book that people are obligated to pay anything.


The Japanese have already figured this out a long time ago, if anyone bothered to read my previous post. YOU DO NOT TIP IN JAPAN! The restaurants give several yearly bonuses i.e. profit sharing from all the profit made on the markup on the food! Get it?


I understand what is assumed and implied in regards to tipping in the US or Ukraine. If tipping makes you feel good, then do it! If you feel service is exceptional and beyond the normal call of duty, then by all means tip away! That's the bottom line!

[Shadow]

This thread has enlightened me to two things; 1 - most of you guys are cheapskates and 2 - it's blatantly obvious few of you have ever worked in the service industry.

1. I am Dutch, that is a compliment 
2. I have been involved as accountant in the restaurant business, which convinced me that in most countries people can survive without a single tip based om gross profit on food alone.

[Faux Pas]

While I sympathize with the assessments regarding tipping, I suggest reading a little history on the subject. Where it got started, when and why. It seems that is has gotten completely out of control in the US especially to put it mildly, go figure! Everything is done to the extreme here. Restaurants have a fairly high markup on food, drinks etc etc. and yet tend to pay workers low wages while expecting customers to make the difference. Sorry, but nowhere is it written in any etiquette rule book that people are obligated to pay anything.

You have a choice as to where you park your carcass to eat. More often the server isn't the owner of the establishment and has few choices as to where to work

The Japanese have already figured this out a long time ago, if anyone bothered to read my previous post. YOU DO NOT TIP IN JAPAN! The restaurants give several yearly bonuses i.e. profit sharing from all the profit made on the markup on the food! Get it?

So you advocate paying more for the food to release you from your obligations for a tip? Yeah that's logical  Comittment issues there anm8tr?

I understand what is assumed and implied in regards to tipping in the US or Ukraine. If tipping makes you feel good, then do it! If you feel service is exceptional and beyond the normal call of duty, then by all means tip away! That's the bottom line!

The server is the "at issue" here. They are assume and implied that if they provide you with good service you will provide them with a tip. In fact most count on it. To release you from that obligation when you walk into an establishment just simply announce to the one who initially seats you that you are not leaving a tip regardless of the quality of service. Fair enough?

[Faux Pas]

1. I am Dutch, that is a compliment 
2. I have been involved as accountant in the restaurant business, which convinced me that in most countries people can survive without a single tip based om gross profit on food alone.

You cheap bastid 

[GQBlues]

This thread has enlightened me to two things; 1 - most of you guys are cheapskates and 2 - it's blatantly obvious few of you have ever worked in the service industry.

Where tipping is concerned, "when in Rome" does not apply. When abroad you should tip just as you do back home. Oh, you are not Ukrainian? Then don't tip like one. If a Ukrainian is looking on and thinks you a braggart for flashing a 20% tip, eFF'em.

So what if the waitress receives a salary. Do you expect her to work for free? Is she expected to feed her kids from your measly 5-10%

When I walk into a restaurant or sit at a bar, just from entering I've added 20% on the total of my bill. That 20% can work either up or down depending on the level of service I get. YES, 20% is the standard from which you should tip from. A 10% tip in the US is pretty much telling the server the same thing a zero tip does.

Never tip a waitress on the quality of the food unless she prepared it for you. Only the quality of the service.

If you are an American, tip like one and don't make cheesy excuses why you didn't

I do, for the most part, carry the same attitude as you wherever I went. I tip 'more' than actually necessary. When I see someone who works hard, regardless of what they're doing, I find a way to give them a 'tip'.

But I need to share this with you FP. The first time I went to Banska Bysrica- SL (2000) to visit some of my friends, we were at the bar one night (17 of us) and happily enjoying each and having a great time. IIRC, the bar tab for 17 of us was like 12-13 bucks. So I decided to buy the rounds. First round, I gave the waitress the equivalent of 20 bucks. In my mind even at 7-8 bucks it was still a darn good deal for me and a great tip for her. A buzz took place between her and one of the gal...no worries. They tell me maybe I shouldn't tip her too much. Then had another round, did the same thing, and the next thing *I* knew the waitress came back and tried to give me my tip money back. Clueless, I insisted she takes it and that she's doing a good job.

Few seconds later, the manager came over and spoke with us - mostly my friends - and what happened was, he was asking for us to leave because they felt I was insulting them for *tipping*, especially with so *much money*.

Sometimes, they just don't work out the same way everywhere, man.

[ECOCKS]

Hmmm, can't quite go down that road FP.


The thing is I still get servers (occasionally) who do not understand about tips. I have had them run after me with the money, ask what the money was for (both me and the GF/wife) and have often wondered if it is a forced split with management.


I have also been pretty sure that most tips placed on the charge card in the FSU never get to the server.

[Faux Pas]

I do, for the most part, carry the same attitude as you wherever I went. I tip 'more' than actually necessary. When I see someone who works hard, regardless of what they're doing, I find a way to give them a 'tip'.

But I need to share this with you FP. The first time I went to Banska Bysrica- SL (2000) to visit some of my friends, we were at the bar one night (17 of us) and happily enjoying each and having a great time. IIRC, the bar tab for 17 of us was like 12-13 bucks. So I decided to buy the rounds. First round, I gave the waitress the equivalent of 20 bucks. In my mind even at 7-8 bucks it was still a darn good deal for me and a great tip for her. A buzz took place between her and one of the gal...no worries. They tell me maybe I shouldn't tip her too much. Then had another round, did the same thing, and the next thing *I* knew the waitress came back and tried to give me my tip money back. Clueless, I insisted she takes it and that she's doing a good job.

Few seconds later, the manager came over and spoke with us - mostly my friends - and what happened was, he was asking for us to leave because they felt I was insulting them for *tipping*, especially with so *much money*.

Sometimes, they just don't work out the same way everywhere, man.

GQ, true. I ran into a similar situation to that in Nicaragua about 10 years ago. The waitress thought we perceived her as a prostitute and she would have to perform if she took the money, based solely on it was too much.

But that is completely the other end of the spectrum here. Some of these guys are cheap bastids feeling good about stiffing a tip

[CDW]

FP

If you are happy to give huge tip then why don't you set up a charitable trust/foundation in Ukraine/Russia (wherever your wife comes from) ??? !!!!   Maybe, "Save The Frogs" charitable.

[Faux Pas]

Hmmm, can't quite go down that road FP.

Not sure I follow you. Telling the server up front that you're not going to tip? Wouldn't that be fair?

The thing is I still get servers (occasionally) who do not understand about tips. I have had them run after me with the money, ask what the money was for (both me and the GF/wife) and have often wondered if it is a forced split with management.

Out of country in the FSU particularly in Siberia where my wife is from, it doesn't appear a common practice. Some tip is considered generous, 10-20% is often perceived a mistake. However, IMHO, that's no excuse. What is more difficult in the FSU is finding exemplary service worth tipping 20%. Not so much the case in Moscow or Piter, they seem quite familiar with the practice of tipping

I have also been pretty sure that most tips placed on the charge card in the FSU never get to the server.

I don't recall ever putting a tip on a charge card in the FSU
[/quote]

[CDW]

According to LONELY PLANET BOOK OF EVERYTHING   (page 77)

Did you know that......

As much as you might have enjoyed a meal in India, don't thank the host because saying "thank you" is seen as a form of payment, and may be taken as an insult

 

[Faux Pas]

FP

If you are happy to give huge tip then why don't you set up a charitable trust/foundation in Ukraine/Russia (wherever your wife comes from) ??? !!!!   Maybe, "Save The Frogs" charitable.

Tipping isn't charity. If you were not such a stingy soul, you'd realize that

[ECOCKS]

Not sure I follow you. Telling the server up front that you're not going to tip? Wouldn't that be fair?

Out of country in the FSU particularly in Siberia where my wife is from, it doesn't appear a common practice. Some tip is considered generous, 10-20% is often perceived a mistake. However, IMHO, that's no excuse. What is more difficult in the FSU is finding exemplary service worth tipping 20%. Not so much the case in Moscow or Piter, they seem quite familiar with the practice of tipping


I don't recall ever putting a tip on a charge card in the FSU

Hmmmm..........


No I would never think about telling them about tips on the front end. That was between you and an8mtr(?). I meant the tip like you were sitting back home part. Sorry for being vague there.


I don't use it as an excuse but there are times it isn't done there and due to time, language barrier constraints and other distractions, starting a course on tipping as an incentive is not on my plan.


Overall, I agree with you but occasionally I do go that route of ""when in Rome..." it's better to just say "Ciao" and walk on....


The comment about the credit cards was for those who are used to leaving the tip on the charge card. I used mine for years without identity theft, over-charging, etc. but always left a cash tip when paying at a restaurant with it.

[Faux Pas]

Hmmmm..........


No I would never think about telling them about tips on the front end. That was between you and an8mtr(?). I meant the tip like you were sitting back home part. Sorry for being vague there.

To my line of thought, one needs a standard. If my service is horrible, I might leave a quarter but, no matter how horrible, I am going to leave something. In most cases if it just left much to be desired the server will likely get 10% from me unless they pissed me off somehow. Acceptable service is a 20%'er. Great service, the sky is the limit. I use my standard no matter where I am at.

I don't use it as an excuse but there are times it isn't done there and due to time, language barrier constraints and other distractions, starting a course on tipping as an incentive is not on my plan.

Good point. I will go out of my way to tip but, not above and beyond. It is my server's responsibility to make it easy and convenient for me to do so.

[ECOCKS]

Exactly.

[GQBlues]

...Out of country in the FSU particularly in Siberia where my wife is from, it doesn't appear a common practice. Some tip is considered generous, 10-20% is often perceived a mistake. However, IMHO, that's no excuse. What is more difficult in the FSU is finding exemplary service worth tipping 20%. Not so much the case in Moscow or Piter, they seem quite familiar with the practice of tipping....

Concur. The only time I stiffed anyone in Russia happened in Moscow my first trip and with a taxi service dispatched by Way2Rus taking me to SVO on my way home. The dude was likely a nationalist and was overall being a jerk. Paid him the quoted fee and nothing else. I'm sure we were both convinced were both jerks, which is cool with me...
 
But all other time and places, I was far more than generous whether it's at a restaurant, kiosks, fares, etc...I mostly found it to be 'appreciated' than not. I give a little extra for the service - period. I mean..why not, eh?
 
I'm not saying do as I say or do as each of us is different.

[anm8tr]

You have a choice as to where you park your carcass to eat. More often the server isn't the owner of the establishment and has few choices as to where to work

Yes we all have choices. Correct!  The server has as many choices where and what to do for work as I have choices in where I eat. The fact that they may end up working in a restaurant is their personal choice alone and not mine.

So you advocate paying more for the food to release you from your obligations for a tip? Yeah that's logical  Comittment issues there anm8tr?

Your either watching too much television or too many movies. While there are obviously very expensive restaurants in most countries, the prices for the food in Japan are no different than anywhere else I have ever eaten. I wasn't eating a $200 Kobe burger or Fugu. So that notion can be quickly discarded.
I see nothing wrong with restaurant owners being honest with themselves and their employees, do you?  The fact that Japanese practice this should be a lesson for other owners, wouldn't you think?

Do you think it is fair that a certain worker get the more expensive tables? or the the fact that he or she might not be able to work one evening and thus collect less tips than their co workers, or do you think that maybe it's more fair that the work be spread evenly across the board and  the profits spread evenly among the workers?

What makes you think that what we do in the USA is the defacto standard for the rest of the world?
 

The server is the "at issue" here. They are assume and implied that if they provide you with good service you will provide them with a tip. In fact most count on it. To release you from that obligation when you walk into an establishment just simply announce to the one who initially seats you that you are not leaving a tip regardless of the quality of service. Fair enough?

I am not advocating not leaving a tip. I always tip even with bad service! I stated earlier that I tipped a guy for delivering my pizza in the pouring and freezing rain one time. I don't feel like I need to tip a waitress $2.00 for serving me several cups of coffee, but I do it anyway. It  doesn't negate from the fact that tipping is still implied and not a requirement.

I quit eating at most restaurants anyway after watching and reading about so many health violations. My first job was washing dishes at an Italian restaurant and I don't even want to mention about the things I saw there. Better to take the hint.

I took a plunge over a year ago and bought a Vitamix blender, so my diet consists of 80% veggies and fruit, a little fish and chicken.  You guy's can have the restaurants, and tip to your hearts desire.

[Faux Pas]

Yes we all have choices. Correct!  The server has as many choices where and what to do for work as I have choices in where I eat. The fact that they may end up working in a restaurant is their personal choice alone and not mine.

Not exactly. Working as a server in a public establishment is more often than not, a shit job. If you had ever had such a job you'd know. Many different people work those jobs for a whole plethora of reasons, most all of them connected to needing the money

Your either watching too much television or too many movies. While there are obviously very expensive restaurants in most countries, the prices for the food in Japan are no different than anywhere else I have ever eaten. I wasn't eating a $200 Kobe burger or Fugu. So that notion can be quickly discarded
I see nothing wrong with restaurant owners being honest with themselves and their employees, do you?  The fact that Japanese practice this should be a lesson for other owners, wouldn't you think?

Complete Strawman and not germane to the topic

Do you think it is fair that a certain worker get the more expensive tables? or the the fact that he or she might not be able to work one evening and thus collect less tips than their co workers, or do you think that maybe it's more fair that the work be spread evenly across the board and  the profits spread evenly among the workers?

Again, more Strawman. What has this to do with the price of cow shit in Texas? The topic was the amount you leave and why in the FSU. Your a cheap bastid, I get it, fine. But please, quit trying to justify it because of some obscure practice in Japan

What makes you think that what we do in the USA is the defacto standard for the rest of the world?
 
I am not advocating not leaving a tip. I always tip even with bad service! I stated earlier that I tipped a guy for delivering my pizza in the pouring and freezing rain one time. I don't feel like I need to tip a waitress $2.00 for serving me several cups of coffee, but I do it anyway. It  doesn't negate from the fact that tipping is still implied and not a requirement.

Yet more of the same. I never stated what we do (well some of us) in the US is the defacto for the rest of the world. Is someone actually impressed that you tipped a pizza guy once in the freezing rain? Yeah you didn't have to do it but what the hell? It was the freezing rain eh? Was that the same two bucks you leave for your coffee?

I quit eating at most restaurants anyway after watching and reading about so many health violations. My first job was washing dishes at an Italian restaurant and I don't even want to mention about the things I saw there. Better to take the hint.

I think we've all heard the stories and some of us and seen it too. Still no excuse for not tipping your server Hirohito

I took a plunge over a year ago and bought a Vitamix blender, so my diet consists of 80% veggies and fruit, a little fish and chicken.  You guy's can have the restaurants, and tip to your hearts desire.

Yeah after those greasy spoons you've been eating in, I don't blame you 

[ECOCKS]

Yet in these countries not everyone defines these as "shit jobs".


I know of students who wait tables that tell me they earn far more than their professionally-employed parents (engineers, teachers, etc.).


FWIW, I pooled all tips and redistributed them as monthly bonuses to staff based on pro-rating the hours worked. Since roughly 98% of tips were at the register this worked well and kept the kitchen staff as involved as those who delivered food out to the tables.

[Shadow]

Yet in these countries not everyone defines these as "shit jobs".


I know of students who wait tables that tell me they earn far more than their professionally-employed parents (engineers, teachers, etc.).


FWIW, I pooled all tips and redistributed them as monthly bonuses to staff based on pro-rating the hours worked. Since roughly 98% of tips were at the register this worked well and kept the kitchen staff as involved as those who delivered food out to the tables.

This is actually standard practice in Holland. After all why would the waiter get the money for the great work the kitchen staff has done ?