Haven't met, she's cold and aloof, but gonna get married!

[mies]

Mies, my friends have good education and no problems whatsoever to find a spouse in real life, so no need to look for someone online...

Exactly my point. So. Do you still think that the woman we are discussing has the same opportunities in her life as your friends do? Do you follow me? 

[Anechka]

Exactly my point. So. Do you still think that the woman we are discussing has the same opportunities in her life as your friends do? Do you follow me? 

Sweetheart, I do, however, my mom is about 56-57, divorced, keep getting  a 3-/2-year visa to the US, so, calculate her opportunities. You miss my point: with so many but's and if's, since we know that something is not right, it would be cheaper to get a tourist visa to see each other, all it takes is a letter of invitation...

[Belvis]

I like girl's talk 
Anechka, sorry, you don't follow what Mies's trying to say 

[Anechka]

(Del)

[Anechka]

I understand the point that there is something wrong with the girl. However, I think it's insane to start a costly fiancée visa process where there are cheaper opportunities for the guy to understand that he was used (maybe, not sure)/ got screwed, tourist visa costs $100 plus a ticket...  Some people learn on their own mistakes 

[mies]

I understand the point that there is something wrong with the girl.

No, Anechka. This isn't what I am trying to say. What I am trying to say is that income of this woman is different than income of your friends or your mom, and as such - it may be not so easy for her to get tourist visa as you are trying to convince the OP.
There is nothing wrong per se in having a modest income. You cannot assume that the woman has malicious or criminal intent just because her income is not very high.

[Anechka]

No, Anechka. This isn't what I am trying to say. What I am trying to say is that income of this woman is different than income of your friends or your mom, and as such - it may be not so easy for her to get tourist visa as you are trying to convince the OP.
There is nothing wrong per se in having a modest income. You cannot assume that the woman has malicious or criminal intent just because her income is not very high.

Well, I'm not assuming anything, however, I'm not suggesting for her to pay for the tickets... I'm assuming that the man pays... What is the difference for him to pay for his ticket to Russia or to pay for her ticket?
My mom is in education, as in the US, education is not highly paid in Russia, I've been teaching in the university full time while studying for my Master's. My salary there was less than my scholarship... Though, it's not that bad for my mom  I think my cousin's salary was around $400, he was 26, not married and still got visa. You usually write in the invitation letter that you are going to cover all travel expenses and provide a statement of income from work (if you can, unless you are self-employed).
From what I see since many of my friends want to come to the US as tourists, if you don't talk shit during the interview, if the inviting side doesn't  have any immigration violations (like staying illegally in the country), the tourist visa is usually granted. I'm not talking as if it's 100% true, but worth a try since it costs only $100 (vs. fees for fiancée visa), if it doesn't work, then yes, one can start fiancée visa process... All they risk is around 1 month and $100...

[AnastassiaAsh]

I'm not talking as if it's 100% true, but worth a try since it costs only $100 (vs. fees for fiancée visa), if it doesn't work, then yes, one can start fiancée visa process... All they risk is around 1 month and $100...

Good luck with that! Nonsense! Why starting something knowing ahead of time that there is such a huge risk, and no, it's not that easy to start K1 after being denied a tourist visa. I would say the easiest is for HIM to visit first, if he can't for ANY reason, then this whole thing isn't for him. It's been such a mess with these visas because people complicate things for themselves and then complain that it didn't work out. 

[mies]

Well, I'm not assuming anything, however, I'm not suggesting for her to pay for the tickets... I'm assuming that the man pays... What is the difference for him to pay for his ticket to Russia or to pay for her ticket?

The difference is that:
1) he isn't issuing the tourist visa for her
2) the return ticket doesn't suffice to obtain the tourist visa to the USA.

the tourist visa is usually granted. I'm not talking as if it's 100% true, but worth a try since it costs only $100 (vs. fees for fiancée visa), if it doesn't work, then yes, one can start fiancée visa process... All they risk is around 1 month and $100..

Based on what many people have told me, and some credible internet sources are telling, there are many cases when tourist visa is denied. My cousin, with stable job, for whom I wrote invitation, and who definitely wasn't going to stay in the US, was denied the tourist visa recently. After the visa application is denied, usually, the person is supposed to wait 1-2 years before re-applying for the new visa, because it is assumed that 1-2 years is a sufficient time for circumstances to change. Before they do change - the visa denial is re-issued for new applications almost automatically. This is when the visa is denied based on lack of proof that the applicant has strong ties with their country.
If the visa is denied because the officer thinks that the applicant was planning visa fraud, I suppose the consequences are also not too good for the applicant.
Do you really think the immigration officers are so stupid? They see the woman with not so good job, low income, applying for the tourist visa, invited to the US by the man whom she never met, and who writes in the letter that he will cover all her expenses during her stay in the US. Does it look like a usual "tourism" to you? Do you think it will look like a usual tourism to the immigration officer at the US consulate in Russia?

[Anechka]

Yeah, fiancée visa for someone you've never met sounds definitely so much better

[mies]

Yeah, fiancée visa for someone you've never met sounds definitely so much better

Anechka, I see you like to argue, and you have your own opinion. We all are entitled to hold tight to our opinions.
It isn't the point how much better looks the fiancee visa for people who never met. Legally, it is allowed to request fiancee visa under such circumstances - if the applicant is granted a waiver for the "meeting" requirement.
At the same time, it is illegal to ask for a tourist visa if the true intent of the trip is marriage to the US citizen.

Now, what looks better in the eyes of the immigration officer who makes decision on the case: (a) the case which is straightforward, all legal requirements are met, and it is clear that applicants are telling the truth, or (b) the case where it is obvious that the applicant is lying?

{Arguably} meeting someone in person for 7 days will make the foundation for marriage SO much stronger. 

[Belvis]

Do you really think the immigration officers are so stupid? They see the woman with not so good job, low income, applying for the tourist visa, invited to the US by the man whom she never met, and who writes in the letter that he will cover all her expenses during her stay in the US.

The immigration officers are not stupid but rather  pedants. They do however stupid things. My  colleague was denied a business visa in Moscow, then he had applied in Geneva using the same invitation letter and was granted. If my friends wanted to go in USA for relatively long stay or immigrate they just used student visa, easiest way for fraud. Funny, one guy I knew worked in FSB (technical position). Then decided to try life in USA. Fortunately for him he made a foreign passport before he get a job in FSB. So he made a few false papers with the help of his friends from Moscow business and was granted student visa, and later get green card. Looks for me the immigration officers turn down rather decent people but not real hustlers.

[mies]

The immigration officers are not stupid but rather  pedants. They do however stupid things. My  colleague was denied a business visa in Moscow, then he had applied in Geneva using the same invitation letter and was granted. If my friends wanted to go in USA for relatively long stay or immigrate they just used student visa, easiest way for fraud. Funny, one guy I knew worked in FSB (technical position). Then decided to try life in USA. Fortunately for him he made a foreign passport before he get a job in FSB. So he made a few false papers with the help of his friends from Moscow business and was granted student visa, and later get green card. Looks for me the immigration officers turn down rather decent people but not real hustlers.

Great story 
They also let Anna Chapman into the US.

[Anechka]

Mies, the reason I'm offering a tourist visa is that they can meet and decide if they really want to get married. You know better than me that virtual and real relations are different... I spelled it out a few time in my post that if she is granted a tourist visa and they decide to get married, she has to come back to Russia and they file for a fiancée visa.
The guy can write a letter to US embassy explaining a situation, attaching necessary medical and other documents... Yes, they plan to get married but they want to meet each other in person first, if they decide to proceed, they will file for fiancée visa.

[Faux Pas]

Mies, the reason I'm offering a tourist visa is that they can meet and decide if they really want to get married. You know better than me that virtual and real relations are different... I spelled it out a few time in my post that if she is granted a tourist visa and they decide to get married, she has to come back to Russia and they file for a fiancée visa.
The guy can write a letter to US embassy explaining a situation, attaching necessary medical and other documents... Yes, they plan to get married but they want to meet each other in person first, if they decide to proceed, they will file for fiancée visa.

Not really. I know a local RW who came on a tourist visa, overstayed and married. Then applied for a greencard. It took some time but, they never threatened to send her back and she now has a conditional 10 Gc. The conditions last for 3.5 years

[calmissile]

Not really. I know a local RW who came on a tourist visa, overstayed and married. Then applied for a greencard. It took some time but, they never threatened to send her back and she now has a conditional 10 Gc. The conditions last for 3.5 years

Yes, it is very common.  I have met many who have done this from the Philipines.  Everyone I talked to used immigration attorneys and cost thousands per person, but were successful.  Come to the US on ANY kind of visa (including Student, Business, Tourist, etc),  get married, and then file for AOS.  For whatever reason, the immigration attorneys are able to get approvals in very large numbers.

[mies]

Mies, the reason I'm offering a tourist visa is that they can meet and decide if they really want to get married. You know better than me that virtual and real relations are different... I spelled it out a few time in my post that if she is granted a tourist visa and they decide to get married, she has to come back to Russia and they file for a fiancée visa.
The guy can write a letter to US embassy explaining a situation, attaching necessary medical and other documents... Yes, they plan to get married but they want to meet each other in person first, if they decide to proceed, they will file for fiancée visa.

Анечка, я по-русски напишу. Может мой английский не слишком понятен. Я не против того чтоб женщина по тур-визе приехала. Да ради Бога. Только я боюсь что конкретно этой женщине тур-визу ей будет сложно получить. Сложнее, чем невестинскую.

Почему я так думаю?

Потому что:
а) я подозреваю, у нее невысокий доход. Иначе бы она не шла замуж за кота в мешке с лежачей потенциальной свекровью-инвалидом (проживающей, заметим, вместе с ее потенциальным мужем). На таких условиях идти замуж это вообще подвиг, а героизму, как известно, способствует или любовь к Родине или крайняя нужда. Любовь к Родине к данному случаю никаким боком не относится.

б) беря во внимание что у гражданки Н невысокий доход, - она не удовлетворяет требования к туристической визе "достаточных связей" с родиной, и у нее банально нет денег на туристические поездки такого плана. Это если она в посольстве никак не будет упоминать о знакомстве с американским гражданином и о том что едет к нему в гости.

в) если же американский гражданин все ее расходы возьмет на себя, и напишет для нее письмо-приглашение: "полностью беру на себя все расходы гражданки Н," - то у иммиграционного чиновника на интервью возникнет вопрос "а с какой целью Вы едете к этому гражданину, и почему он покрывает Ваши расходы?"

Гражданка Н скажет "он мой друг" а чиновник спросит "и где такие друзья чтобы тысячи платить за подруг которых они в глаза не видели? Где вы познакомились?"

Гражданка Н скажет "познакомились на форуме кулинаров" а чиновник спросит "это форум кулинаров случайно не онлайн брачное агентство?"

Гражданка Н что-то соврет в ответ. А чиновник ей ответит "а поскольку знакомились вы в брачном агентстве, и целью поездки является (вполне вероятное) заключение брака, то и визу Вы должны просить невестинскую, а не туристическую." И откажет ей в туристической визе, на основании того что она скрыла в визовой заявке некоторую существенную информацию, и свои иммиграцинные намерения.

Так яснее?

Шанс получить отказ по туристической визе у нее очень высок. А после отказа может быть сложнее просить новую визу.

Если же она приедет по невестинской визе - она точно так же может использовать эту визу для того чтобы познакомиться с мужчиной, и решить выходить замуж или нет. Она ведь не обязана выходить за него замуж. Не захочет - не выйдет.

Вы мешаете всё в одну кучу. А нужно мухи от котлет отделить.

У гражданки Н есть задача: познакомиться с мужчиной, встретиться с ним в реальной жизни.
Для этого нужно чтобы или мужина к ней приехал, или она к нему.
Мужчина к ней не может приехать потому что у него мало денег и мать инвалид.
Она к мужчине может приехать, если ей дадут визу.
Теоретически, с точки зрения гражданки Н - ей без разницы по какой визе в США въехать. Хоть студенческая, хоть рабочая, хоть туристическая, хоть невестинская  -любая подойдет. Главное - чтобы эту визу дали и не дали отказа.
А вот с точки зрения иммиграционных властей - разница в типе визы есть. С точки зрения иммиграционных властей иностранец должен честно сообщать о своих намерениях. И если у него намерения выйти замуж, и даже потенциальный жених уже найден, то просить любой другой тип визы - это обман. За обман могут надрать уши.

Потому, гражданке Н, раз уж ей без разницы по какой визе въезжать в США, главное чтобы эту визу дали - нужно просить тот тип визы который она по американским законам имеет право просить.

[Anechka]

1) я все это понимаю, я не предлагаю врать, мед документы о том, что он не может приехать, можно предоставить. Все мы люди и консулы тоже. Описать ситуацию, подписать аффидевит, что обязуется выехать и оформить визу невесты/жены...  В конечном итоге, что они теряют, особенно если честно в е расскажут... Да, планы есть, но для планов нужна встреча, он приехать не может, ибо мама, а она может... Обязуемся оформить все, как полагается, если у нас сложиться все хорошо...
2) доходы и связь с родиной: мне сложно судить, по какому принципу они это решают. Приезжал троюродный брат, 26 лет, работает в музее, зарабатывает копейки, из недвижимости - четверть квартиры в попе России... Визу дали. У мужа родственница - архитектор, работает на гос структуру, не самая маленькая должность, 57-60 лет, хороший заработок, постоянно в Европу ездит, муж, дочь, зять, внук, квартира в Питере... Визу не дали..

Кстати, ситуации как с моим братом не единственная. У меня большинство друзей в образовании, надеюсь зарплаты школьных и вузовских учителей вы представляете: им всем дали визы... Не замужем/женаты, молоды, вуз закончили, связей с родиной особо никаких... С мамой проблем меньше, она хоть и в образовании, но в частной структуре, зарплата выше, плюс есть мед документы, что бабушка от нее зависит..
Я к тому, что ю невер ноу... Попытка - не пытка... Виза невесты - это экстрим... Это ж как отчаянно надо хотеть замуж/в Америку, чтобы согласиться на такое безумие? Для меня логичнее звучит: знакомство, а потом виза жены/невесты. Можно пожениться по тур.визе, но жена обязана выехать и необходимо оформить ей визу жены...

ЗЫ: вопрос о содержании молодой жены даже ставить боюсь... Если у товарища денег особо нет...
ПЗЫ: а вообще, сам случай какой-то очень экстремальный, сидели бы все по домам...

[Anechka]

Not really. I know a local RW who came on a tourist visa, overstayed and married. Then applied for a greencard. It took some time but, they never threatened to send her back and she now has a conditional 10 Gc. The conditions last for 3.5 years

Yeah, half Brooklyn is like that, lol, numerous cases that I know about... However, if they try to invite their family to visit them, there is a huge chance they will be denied, immigration doesn't like it.

[Faux Pas]

Yeah, half Brooklyn is like that, lol, numerous cases that I know about... However, if they try to invite their family to visit them, there is a huge chance they will be denied, immigration doesn't like it.

That may well be the case in the majority of the cases, I really don't know. This lady is from the same city as my wife, in a horrible marriage but, won't go back to Russia for anything. Her mother, a well know singer from Moscow has visited her numerous times and has no problem getting a visa. She was just here a couple of months ago.

[Anechka]

That may well be the case in the majority of the cases, I really don't know. This lady is from the same city as my wife, in a horrible marriage but, won't go back to Russia for anything. Her mother, a well know singer from Moscow has visited her numerous times and has no problem getting a visa. She was just here a couple of months ago.

I know, it happens, they grant visa sometimes, in general, a lot of visa denial

[TheTraveler]

Nonsense!...
 
I would say the easiest is for HIM to visit first, if he can't for ANY reason, then this whole thing isn't for him.

thread winner!
 
nastya = the voice of reason.