First timer headed to Ukraine

[ML]

$1500 Round trip airfair
$300 Apartment fee
$200 Round trip taxi to Lugansk

Worried about a jacket or change for the store?  Priceless.

You're in the BIGS now.  To find out if the lady is in to you, you have to pay the entry fee.  OH, YOU PAID IT ALREADY AND ARE SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF?

You, my friend, are committed.  Don't worry about the small things.  Enjoy yourself and have an open wallet.  After all, you've already paid the entry fee.

You and others are way off base here Jone.

It has very little to do with the absolute dollar amount of what you refer to as the 'small stuff.'

What the men are (or should be) looking at is the tendency or modus operandi of the particular woman.  Her actions regarding giving back change etc. for 'small stuff' gives an indication of how she will handle the money when 'big stuff' is involved.

[ML]

Next thing you know you'll be telling her you will only buy Foldgers instead of the coffee she wants (because it's cheaper).

Jone, I see you are going to ride this one until you get tired of it.

So let me add a bit more.

The woman in questions knew 'dick' about the coffee she 'wanted.'

She looked strictly at the price tags and chose the most expensive one.
There is zero correlation between price and quality.
She just wanted to spend as much of my money as possible . . . period.

Perhaps I didn't elaborate in the OP, but she also wanted to buy several other expensive items.  Some I knew I would never eat and I knew I wasn't going to see her again, so it would have been like flushing money down the toilet.

Now, if  she had said, 'this coffee is really terrific and I highly recommend it,'
I would have purchased it in a heartbeat; because I knew I would be drinking coffee on a regular basis.

She was like the woman we can meet in any country who simply got a near orgasm from spending money, and as much as possible as quickly as possible.

[Faux Pas]

I would be very hesitant to dismiss the flags you mentioned because of the justifications you are receiving from the replies. It seems they are in pedestal construction mode tonight. What you feel in your gut is correct. Do not 2nd guess it. If I had a date ask me to purchase a high ticket item after a couple of short meetings I would walk away. This will only get worse with time. Respectable women don't do this. On the food money. I cannot imagine this either. Can you say entitlement attitude.

You are way off the mark. Have you any success stories to share? Yeah, I didn't so. 

Lone and this lady have a communication problem. She's not understanding his language and gestures anymore than he is hers. From what he's stated, she's doing what he's ask her to do. If one can take a minute to look objectively at her position you might see something different than what you suggest.

[jone]

Sorry, ML,

Just wanted to see if you were reading the thread.  Hehehehe

[Faux Pas]

What the men are (or should be) looking at is the tendency or modus operandi of the particular woman.  Her actions regarding giving back change etc. for 'small stuff' gives an indication of how she will handle the money when 'big stuff' is involved.

*cough* Bullshit*cough*

[Doll]

You and others are way off base here Jone.

It has very little to do with the absolute dollar amount of what you refer to as the 'small stuff.'

What the men are (or should be) looking at is the tendency or modus operandi of the particular woman.  Her actions regarding giving back change etc. for 'small stuff' gives an indication of how she will handle the money when 'big stuff' is involved.

BTW this woman is also watching his modus operandi
Possible observations: doesn't eat out but shops for grocery to cook (on vacations! come on!), watches the money he gave you to spend, doesn't buy things when she asks ("tomorrow"), etc.

[pokerintherear]

You are way off the mark. Have you any success stories to share?

No but I know the drill. Get my arse on a plane and take a roll of toilet paper. 

[Doll]

*cough* Bullshit*cough*

+100
This is the way they watch the hamster in the cage.

[southernX]

LD

keep an open mind and apositive attitude to all experiences,

dont go prejudging too much stuff to soon , try to look at her side of the coin for a bit of perspective ,

id agree with alot of the advice you are getting  already ,

romance her a little , be the gentlemen , instead of the taxi ride around her city , ask about a romatic walk , take in a cafe, , enjoy the walk and relax with her , of course she wont be a bubbly fountain , if her english is not strong , she will be self confident about how her words will sound and it is difficult for a girl to translate in her mind all her answers if english isnt good , are you speaking slower with her ??i dont mean dumb slow , just slow your conversations down and use proper english , no slang etc

trust your gut instinct , something   about this girl got your attention ??  dont cave in to early to the negatives of being in a totally different country and how you are intepreting her reactions against what you expect from her , be patient !!

it may not go anywhere , but take the time to find out .

expect her to be a bit reserved , it will take time for her to trust you and open up to you ,

as it is your first time overseas , my guess is all your senses are being tested by the differences you are experiencing , compared to what you had built up in your expectations of how it would be , relax a little ask anna what she recomends to show you in her city ,

the shoping trip , well if you invite her to choose a birthday gift when shopping , then when she does pick something out , you tell her you will buy it tommorrow ??  why ??  makes you look mean or greedy and unreliable , her impression will possibly be not to trust you , this puts you in a bad light

relax a little , let go of your expectations , have a little faith and less fear ,



my wife , never kept my money at any time , she never even wanted to take money from me  for a taxi when i gave it to her ..but that really doesnt count for much , all people are different
 
SX

[jone]

You and others are way off base here Jone.

It has very little to do with the absolute dollar amount of what you refer to as the 'small stuff.'

What the men are (or should be) looking at is the tendency or modus operandi of the particular woman.  Her actions regarding giving back change etc. for 'small stuff' gives an indication of how she will handle the money when 'big stuff' is involved.

No, sir,

You are off base.  LD has made the purchase of approximately $2000.00 of traveling expenses and is going to wind up sitting in a hotel room by your recommendation.  So she's not the GAL!  Who cares?  He can wait until the cows come home to sort that out.  He's on his first adventure overseas.  See it through! 

So many of the people on this forum are so worried about getting dinged by scammers or being in a relationship that isn't the one that they forget to enjoy themselves.  One one of my trips I would up with a pro-dater.  Knew it.  She knew that I knew it.  We wound up having a great time knowing that nothing would come of it.

In Ukraine as well as in the Upper Midwest, it is the middle of winter and LD is off on an adventure.  Before we tell him to tighten up his sphincter muscle, he needs to experience life.

When he is home and you guys are all living vicariously through his trip, he can decide if she is someone he wants to spend a lifetime or even another date with.  But he won't decide and experience anything if all you folks tell him to fold up the tent and look elsewhere. 

ML, I admire the way you approach life.  I tease you for it, too.  But your way is not the way this man decided to do his trip.  He doesn't have a whole stable of women lined up where he processes them through a check stand and decides which is the best value.  He decided to experience one - let's give him the ability to experience her and then go from there.

-jon

[Faux Pas]

No but I know the drill. Get my arse on a plane and take a roll of toilet paper. 

Better yet, never go. Sit home, hang out on the forums and pass on all your sage advice to those that did go. Sounds logical to me

[Faux Pas]

my wife , never kept my money at any time , she never even wanted to take money from me  for a taxi when i gave it to her ..but that really doesnt count for much , all people are different
 
SX

During our dating stage I gave my wife money to keep and use for expenses we would incur. Buying tickets, paying for taxi and anything else that may arise. I thought nothing of it. Once I gave her the money I considered it spent. When we visit Russia together, I still do. It helps to avoid English conversations at inopportune times

[Doll]

   Once I gave her the money I considered it spent. 

Good boy! 

[calmissile]

First Timer,

I suspect your experience has been mirrored by many before you that did not spend a lot of time getting to know each other on Skype prior to making the first trip.

While Skype time is not a guarantee of compatibility, it is very valuable to discover personalities and do some preliminary sorting before making a trip.  BTW, if you do get back to Skyping with women that do not know English, PM me and I will send you a link to a great interactive translator plug-in for Skype.  It translates interactively in both directions right in the text box.

The only red flag I see in your posts is the fact that she has a child and did not tell you.  You might ask her why her profile does not reflect this important item.  She might have a plausible explanation.  If not, it would bother me that she was deliberately hiding it.  It seems to me that you first decision is to decide whether her child is a deal breaker.  If so, move on.  There are tens of thousands of FSU women that do not have children at home.

My recent experiences with Ukraine women has taught me that there seems to two types of women you are likely to meet.  The party gals that are very friendly and romantic at first meeting and the more reserved women that do not show affection until they have decided that you are "their man".  If you are seeking a wife, you probably should be searching for the more reserved gals.  They are not cold, just withold affection until they get to know you well enough to trust you and feel comfortable around you.  I did not get my first kiss from my present Gal for about a week of being together.  I nearly dumped her because of it.  It would have been a big mistake on my part.  Different FSU women have different values and morals and being in a rush to expect romance can be a big mistake.  Many are cautious in the beginning, but if they choose to persue the relationship, you will know it immediately.  There is no ambiguity once they have made up their mind.   LOL

I would not go blasting off to some far off place to get another date.  Some of the guys on here can probably suggest what you can do where you are now or very close to there.  Your time is limited, so make the best of it.  You can also set up a free profile on Badoo website and put your present location to where you are now.  The local gals check to see who is nearby and your profile would pop up.  It worked great for me previously.

Good luck in your continued adventure.

P.S.  I always gave money to my gals to pay for things.  Sometimes they returned the change, sometimes not.  None of them spent any of the money on themselves without asking first.  Since they always paid for everything out of the money I gave them, it made sense to them to hang on to it rather than my having to give it to them at every time it was time to pay for something. I would not make too big a deal about it.

[Doll]

calmissile, she told him about the child in her second e-mail.

[I/O]

Once I gave give her the any money I considered it is spent.

  'Sway it is...

 
Doll, your hamster in a cage analogy is quite good - I've always seen this forum as having a "mouse in a cage" mentality (The topical RW being the mouse) and I've always wondered what the "Topical trip advisory committee" would say if the mouse became mice and the examination was reversed. BTW, yes I have heard Mrs and her friends discussing some poor unfortunate punter who has turned up to meet one of their friends LOL. If only they knew...........

[Doll]

  'Sway it is...

 
Doll, your hamster in a cage analogy is quite good -

This is how Russians say in this case.

[southernX]

During our dating stage I gave my wife money to keep and use for expenses we would incur. Buying tickets, paying for taxi and anything else that may arise. I thought nothing of it. Once I gave her the money I considered it spent. When we visit Russia together, I still do. It helps to avoid English conversations at inopportune times

FP , yes same as myself , i gave it to her and didnt consider it at all , however my wife was very keen to always give it back , or at least any unspent portion of it , after some time she relented , but it took time for that to happen not the first week or so

SX

[Gator]

Firsttimer, do I understand this episode correctly?
 
You met your first UW soon after arrival while still under the effects of jet lag.  It is now a day later and you decide you do not want to see this woman again  because 1) her English is limited (something you knew before you went on this trip) and 2) you question her attitude about money (which may be nothing more than a cultural misunderstanding, especially the part about reneging on a promise to buy her a BD present).   Please elaborate if I am missing something.
 
The limited English is no reason to dump a woman who otherwise appeals to you.  Limited English means that you will need more time (i. e., more trips) to build a relationship and decide about marriage.  If you do not have such time or the money for trips, then move on.   
 
Maybe it is not the English.  Maybe  she does not appeal to you physically.  Maybe there is no chemistry.  Those are two valid reasons to see another woman.   However, unless you are absolutely sure, I would stay another day or two.  You do not have a quick backup plan.  The worse that could happen is you learn more about Ukraine and UW.
 
What is the story with diet dew?

[lonedrake]

 Well its a new day. Jet lag is still kicking my ass. Or I should say its hard to get on a regular schedule here?

 I do appreciate the feedback. I know it comes from a good place

 There is a huge learning curve for me.All the advice I received indicated that this pursuit is difficult and challenging. On top of it all I took a difficult road. I basically threw myself in the fire.  I am well aware of that. I did not use agencies or try it find an easy path.This experience will only make me a better person.

 As far as Anna goes I will think this over as some of the advice could apply. I don't believe she is a scammer and the money issues are my own fault. Its not the first time I have screwed up.  But...I believe the more likely possibility is than she doesn't have a strong interest in me.  After today I will have a much better understanding.

 The woman I am meeting today has a bunch of ideas of things to do. She even thought showing me around town was a good idea. She even suggested going skating.

  Oh..I did not ask Anna to spend the night.Not my style.

[Gator]

  But...I believe the more likely possibility is than she doesn't have a strong interest in me.  After today I will have a much better understanding.

Some RW are that way.  Not really interested after seeing you, but too polite to abandon you.   RW are direct.  Ask her what she is feeling.  Or better yet, give her a kiss in private.  Her response will reveal much and could get a discussion started. 

The woman I am meeting today has a bunch of ideas of things to do. She even thought showing me around town was a good idea. She even suggested going skating.

Fantastic.  I did not know you had a list of other women to call.  Hopefully she is fun.  I was most attracted to the women who were fun to be with.  Most of them are pretty enough, so to me it was not about finding the prettiest or the one with the largest breasts, but the one with whom life is fun even doing nothing other than looking at surrealistic industrial landscapes in Lugansk.
 
Good luck!

[lonedrake]

 Gator, I posted just after you.

 The issue is not the money or even her attitude about money. I just view it as her attitude towards life in general. She does not want to go to restaurant because she only eats fruits and vegetables. She does not seem to have interest in much. Does not make much effort to help me out...or make effort to check on me. I don't feel she is adventurous enough.

 Maybe I jump to all the wrong conclusions but this is how I feel. It will never work between us....so why keep trying?

[Belvis]

The issue is not the money or even her attitude about money. I just view it as her attitude towards life in general. She does not want to go to restaurant because she only eats fruits and vegetables. She does not seem to have interest in much. Does not make much effort to help me out...or make effort to check on me. I don't feel she is adventurous enough.

Seems to me all this stuff could be revealed through skyping or e-mails. I'm suspicious of vegetarians too, not a good match for a hunter
I assume when AM says: I believe the more likely possibility is than she doesn't have a strong interest in me, it means: She doesn't appeal to me

[Anechka]

Just curious, why does everybody go to Ukraine? It's just my impression from the topics I saw... All Ukrainian towns and cities listed...

Too lazy to get a visa to Russia?  or too afraid of mr. Putin? He banned adoptions... So maybe ban of international marriages is on the way...

[Larry1]

Just curious, why does everybody go to Ukraine? It's just my impression from the topics I saw... All Ukrainian towns and cities listed...

That's a good question, and one that has been discussed at some length.  It's true that Ukraine attracts far more Western bride-seekers than any other FSU country, at least on a per capita basis.  Not for nothing is the country called the bridebasket of Europe.  People have suggested various reasons for this.  Here are the ones I can recall off the top of my head:

1. Ukraine doesn't require a visa for people from the common bride-seeker countries.  Obtaining a Russian visa requires minimal effort. When I have obtained mine all it required was filling in a fairly short application, sending it to a visa agency along with my passport, a passport-sized photo, and a $200 fee.  I will say that most of my trips to FSU have been made to Ukraine, sometimes because projects at work made it unclear exactly when I could make the trip far enough in advance of travel.  It was handy then to be able to fly on shorter notice.  With one exception, my trips to Ukraine were not to see UW but rather to meet Belarusian or Russian girls who came to meet me there.

2. Perhaps because of Ukraine's less-developed economy, more UW than RW, per capita, are willing to look abroad for a husband

3. Ukraine is closer than most areas of Russia for most Western bride-seekers.  The short flight from the UK to Kiev means that a guy can visit very often. 

4. Ukraine has had a well-developed marriage agency culture, consequently when many Western guys think of finding a FSUW Ukraine springs to mind first.  Some guys will investigate further and perhaps look in various countries of FSUW but many will not.  I've heard a lot of guys say they got into this with an internet search on "Ukraine wife".

Does anyone have any other ideas?

or too afraid of mr. Putin?

I doubt it.  The trend didn't seem to be different under the Medvedev administration.