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Author Topic: Update - 13 years later  (Read 135761 times)

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Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #700 on: July 31, 2016, 02:00:27 PM »
Shadow,,, Sous02,,, ML,,, Slumba,,, Thanks for the nice words :-)

It’s been half a year already since my last update,,,,
Still 16 years later though….

Tanya, her daughter and me are back on vacation in Ukraine, after waiting for almost a year and a half for their residence permit in Sweden.

First a little about the trouble we had to go trough for getting their residence permit.
After they were being denied a visitor visa to Norway in the late autumn of 2014, because of a stupid small mistake when applying, I started to look for a loophole to circumvent the immigration rules. I didn’t want to wait for a year or more, to take them home to Norway on another visa, as the Norwegian immigration department suggested. Living half an hour away from the Swedish border, I could rent a small apartment there and move temporarily to Sweden, while continuing to work and pay taxes in Norway. This was just a formality, filling in the necessary documents, as citizens inside the Nordic countries can choose which country to live in, without asking for permission. Then I used the ruling of free movement for citizen inside the Schengen / European Union, as Sweden is in the Union and Norway is a member of the Schengen agreement. It has a chapter, stating that a citizen moving from one country to another, has the right to take his wife and her children along with him. Without applying for family reunion, even if his wife is from a third country outside the union.

Bingo,,,, by filling in the necessary documents after marrying with Tanya, the Swedish Embassy would have to grant her and her daughter a Visa according to the rules of the EU. The fact that she had been denied a Schengen Visa two months earlier would no longer be relevant for giving them a visa or not.
And to top it off, after living outside of Norway for more than six months, I can use the same EU ruling when moving back to Norway. Taking Tanya and her daughter with me, without having to apply for a family reunion.
   
When arriving in Sweden February 2015, we applied for a 5 year residence permit for Tanya and her daughter, which should be a formality only, and granted in 2-4 months when all conditions are met. But this proved to be a very long and cumbersome process. Mostly because the Swedish immigration department became overloaded by thousands of refugees from Syria / north Africa, applying for asylum. This created a vacuum for personnel with knowledge and experience in processing immigrant applications.
After waiting for more than half a year, many phone calls, mistakes and conflicting answers from different persons working with our application, we received new documents to be filled in, that were clearly not appropriate for us. With questions like “are you presently married with more than one wife" even if none of us were from muslim countries.
Maybe because of the relatively short time we had been married and the large age gap (27) between me and Tanya, our application had probably been downgraded automatically to the category of possibly arranged marriages. As the next year of waiting was mostly related to questions about proof of our relationship, from young and somewhat unexperienced workers at the Swedish migration department.

Then finally a few weeks ago, Tanya and her daughter received their residence permit. Just in time for us to travel to Ukraine for a few weeks before the schools starts again, in the middle of August. Yes, guess who were jumping up and down from happiness that day....

After meeting with some friends in Kiev and Brovary, we drove south to Melitopol, where we are now, visiting her parents and meeting with friends and family ++.
My boys have been all summer at their grand parents in Dnieprodzherzjinsk, we have plans for visiting them next week.

Will add some photos and more updates tomorrow....

Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #701 on: August 01, 2016, 06:15:57 AM »
For driving to Ukraine again this summer, I also had to find a suitable car for "shaking to death", on the "pothole highways” of Ukraine.
My previous "Ukraine Ride" the Peugeot 607 in my story here, had endured a total of 70K km / 45K miles, mostly in Ukraine from summer 2013 - early spring 2015, before being sold off.

We also needed a larger car, as we had collected 150+ kg / 330+ pounds of children clothing to take along with us to Ukraine.
Tanya is helping through a friend, to support families that has lost their homes in eastern Ukraine, because of Putin’s terrible attack on them.

With my economy being at an all time low, because of pressure from my bank to down pay debt, there wasn’t much to choose from in a car with a budget close to zero.
Tanya is doing well however, her business just flourishing this year, with her pocketing USD 1000+ a week already. She is helping me out as much as she can of course, but we need much more than that to turn things around for us.

Well I bought this old 2001 VW "minibus" below, in a very nice condition with relatively low mileage, but with a broken automatic transmission. An economical turbo diesel, just having passed technical control, with road taxes paid, and full service history, for USD 900,-.
When making the deal, I was betting on my ability to fix the transmission myself. 35 years ago I was designing and building a lot of race car stuff, also modified automatic transmissions. But when searching the internet and youtube, I quickly found out that a lot of things has changed from then till now, with this being a six speed electronically controlled, "extremely complex" box built by Jatco in Japan. A box according to professionals on forums, that you can forget about taking apart yourself. I called a friend of me that have a company doing automatic transmission repairs, telling me that parts alone were above expensive. And a total dismantling and rebuild, which I needed, was exceedingly costly because of all the hours needed in doing such a transmission. This car was simply not worth it.....
 
Anyway, it’s difficult turning my always optimistic outlook around, and I’m used to go along on my own, whatever the quest. So I decided to borrow some tools from a friend, and go ahead, standing outdoors outside my office with the car. For parts, I bought another identical broken transmission for USD 50,- Hoping it would not have the same parts broken inside as mine.
It turned out to be more than a full week of work before I was able to start the car again for a test drive. Working with cars was nice in my youth, but no longer something I would want to do again these days. My bet was like 50/50 for working or not. Luckily, it was perfect, and two days later we were off to Ukraine again,,,,,

A photo of our car,,, taken at a beautiful sunset one evening when returning to Melitopol, after a trip to the beach,,,,,


Offline treadmilldude

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #702 on: August 01, 2016, 08:17:04 AM »
North, congrats on your Jan. 3rd, 2015 marriage to Tanya. I am very happy for the two of you and her Daughter. Tanya is a very beautiful woman, you are very blessed to have such a lovely Wife. Treat her like the Princess that she is, she sounds not only beautiful on the outside, but beautiful on the inside as well (what is truly important). I wish you both many happy years of marriage together. Hopefully you can come on RWD on January 3rd, 2025 and tell us about your 10 Year Marriage Anniversary - what ya'll did, where ya'll went, etc...Don't be a stranger, and please do not forget to keep us updated on how great your relationship with Tanya is. Everyone on RWD is keeping you two in our thoughts and prayers and rooting for you two to have a wonderful life together. God bless you Northkape. I hope to be as blessed as you in a few years. Although, I am not counting on finding a woman as pretty as your Tanya. I'll be very happy with a woman only 10% as pretty as Tanya.  ;)

Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #703 on: August 02, 2016, 11:51:10 AM »
Thanks for the praise, Treadmill and Slumba,,,

If you want to hook up with a nice woman Treadmill (and all others reading this).
Stop building fantasies in your head about women you have never met, or lived together with,,,
Write and get in touch with many, then go for a short meeting with each, make a selection for those you feel the most compatible with, and meet them again and again till you have only one left.
Only then, after having spent a lot of time together, is it time to start thinking about going forward with something serious....

From one thing to another,,, I had a very pleasant phone call one evening a few weeks ago,,,
 
Prelude
One early morning at the end of July 2013 I was driving into the center of Kiev one day early without a date waiting for me this evening. Stopping at a gas station I started searching all available dating sites for a woman to meet with in the evening. As I already had been writing to all profiles that fit inside my narrow filter criteria, I had to extend my maximum age gap from 25 to 27 for finding any new prospects in the Kiev area. A few hours later I had an answer from a single mother 32 years old., When calling her on the phone, she was not interested in a date with me, but would love to practice her English for an hour or so, outside in the park this beautiful evening. Six hours later we were in bed together in her apartment, and lived together around the clock for the next five days.
From page 9 of my story:
When arriving in Kiev, I dropped of a form letter to her and many others, to stuff my schedule with extra meetings.
Stating that I was in Kiev, with free time available for a cup of coffee with a woman interested in practicing her English.
Well, she replied, telling me that she had an hour or so after work, a meeting that turned into a full five days.


I named her Kiev32 in my story here: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.125

She was in so many ways a fantastic woman, and we have kept in touch with each other ever since by phone (Skype) and messaging. This late evening she was on the phone to tell me that she has finally settled for a man to marry, after five years of searching. A man from France, only five years older than herself. Almost a year having passed since I last heard her pleasant voice, we spent close to an hour talking about past and present. She promised to tell me when it was to happen, but I haven’t heard anything more since then.

We are leaving Melitopol now,, driving to Kiev during the night, have appointment at dentist there tomorrow….
More to follow,,,

Offline ML

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #704 on: August 02, 2016, 12:42:23 PM »
Hi North, good to hear from you.  You do much more risky things than I would have the guts to try.

Short story about my 'car repair' when I was a young man.

Was going on a trip of about 2,000 mils each way.
Nothing actually wrong with my car . . . but being silly, I decided to take apart the carburetor (yes, this was back in those days) and clean it.

When removing it, I heard a 'clink' but thought not much about it.

Put the thing back together and reinstalled it.
Yes, I had some missing bolts and taps, but also had some extras (as always) that didn't seen to fit anywhere . . . so no big deal to a young man.

Fired it up and heard loud clashing sound in engine.

Yes, a tap had dropped down into the manifold, got sucked into a piston bore and smashed the piston head on its next trip up.

Had to call in older friends to help fix it all up.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline JayH

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #705 on: August 03, 2016, 07:17:29 AM »


We are leaving Melitopol now,, driving to Kiev during the night, have appointment at dentist there tomorrow….
More to follow,,,

nk-- I was on the road north from Melitopol that day!
Sorry I did not see photo of car earlier-I would have looked for it!

For those not familiar with NK's story it is recommended reading.His methodology is/was closest to mine and conclusions(observations) similar .The ey part is repeat trips -time on the ground- and patience- and do not presume everyone you meet( or talk to) is a future bride( for you)
Like NK--I have also made many friends that I remain in contact with.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #706 on: August 03, 2016, 09:19:37 AM »
Hello NK,

I admire your ability to fix things, whether a broken transmission, an immigration issue, a horny woman, or an empty heart. 

Keep telling us your wonderful story.

Offline ML

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #707 on: August 03, 2016, 10:12:07 AM »
North, when you get a chance, could you please indicate the various driving routes you have taken to get to and from Norway - Ukraine?

And please specify the pros and cons of these alternative driving routes.

I presume some of the routes involve car ferries across the Baltic Sea.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #708 on: August 04, 2016, 11:36:38 AM »
Yes,, ML, I was always fascinated by mechanical things,,,
Got my first adjustable wrench and a small motorcycle when I was 7,, working on cars from 11,, stopped by police in my own car at 13,,
Age for driving a motorcycle and car in Norway at that time 16 and 18.... Made me a lot of trouble with the police in those years.

That would have been nice Jay,, but hopefully there might be another opportunity for meeting at some point in the future,,:-)

Thanks Gator,, now when getting older, I sometimes philosophize about how large an amount of knowledge and wisdom that disappears when we die.
Life passes away so quickly and it's getting so difficult to accept that I will never be able to realize more than a fraction of all my dreams in life.
When younger my outlook on life was like and eternity with no end in sight......
Now, even though I still have mostly the same energy and "drive" as I had at twenty,, that eternity is long gone...

I will do ML,,, maybe I can find time for marking the route on a .jpg of map, for a visual view of it :))
Shortest quickest form my hometown is this :
Norway to Helsingborg Sweden, ferry to Helsingor Denmark (15 min) then to Rodby south in Denmark, ferry to Puttgarden Germany (one hour), then Hamburg - Berlin - Frankfurt am Oder into Poland, straight on to Warsaw, then Lublin - Dorohusk into Ukraine, Kovel - Korosten - Kiev  total of 2400 km / 1500 miles
We always drive non stop, have fruit, water and sandwiches in cooler bag inside car, stopping only for gasoline, toilet, and a short pause or two, for an hour or so with sleep, enough for me to charge my batteries..
Normal time with ferries, and waiting time on border into Ukriane (1 - 4 hours) is 32 - 38 hours.
My personal record, alone, late autumn, very fast driving (cruise control at 160 - 180 km / 100 - 115-miles an hour when possible), no sleep, no toilet, no road work, perfect weather, little traffic, no waiting at ferries or border, was 27 hours.     
 
How time flies away,,,,,,, close to two and half year since I met with Tanya, and married a year and a half already.
She wants us to have child together,, already from before we married,, but respects my decision to wait till we are !00% sure about doing this or not.
 
This trip was her first revisit, since leaving Ukraine almost a year and a half ago.
Even though she lived in Brovary outside Kiev, she used to go by train to her parents in Melitopol, like 4-5 times a year.

And how much she has been waiting for returning here, to her beloved hometown…
To go to her favorite hairdresser, dentist, doctor, gynecologist, cosmetologist, masseur, +++
For servicing her manicure tools, repairing shoes, calibrating and servicing all her sewing machines, +++,,,,
Buying this and buying that, because it is cheaper or better here in Melitopol,,,
Nicer shoes, nicer clothes, nicer foods,,, +++

And yes, I can understand her very well,,, a lot of these services are less then one tenth of the price at home,
All of it from people she knows and are familiar with, high quality work being done almost for free.

But for me,,, I have been working almost as a full time taxi driver, for her and her daughter, during these two weeks here in this simmering heat 33-37 C. 91 - 99 F
Except for a few trips to a secluded beach along the coast of the Sea of Azov.

A few photos from the last two weeks...


Our secluded beach along The Sea of Azov on a nice Sunday....


Tanya and her daughter


Tanya in one of her favorite shops :-)

More to follow,,,,,,
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 11:56:27 AM by northkape »

Offline ML

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #709 on: August 04, 2016, 08:40:13 PM »
Nice pics North.

And thanks for the road map info.

For comparative reference; that 1500 miles is similar to driving Los Angeles to Omaha, or Miami to Boston.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #710 on: November 04, 2017, 04:23:54 PM »
Another year ++, has passed since my last update,,,
How quickly time passes, more than three and a half year since I first met with Tanya, and less than two months away from our three years anniversary as married. 
We are still doing well, but not without some serious friction in our relationship every now and then.


Me and Tanya 17th of May, the Norwegian independence day

The relationship between Tanya and my boys is still more than difficult. She consider them to be "Lena’s children”, and as such don’t want to be a “nanny" for her children.
She is so easily irritated and upset at whatever minor “wrongdoing” she finds in my boys behavior. While she sees straight through whatever faults are present in her own daughter.
With two sets of rules within our family, one for me and boys and another for Tanya and her daughter, my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.

On top of this, my ongoing economic problems has added a lot of strain on our relationship,
Tanya is doing well with her business, but wants to use more money for herself and helping her family in Ukraine, instead of helping me pay our bills.

Another roadblock has been language,,,,
Her daughter, as I expected, learned Norwegian quickly, (in school + social mingling) and speaks close to fluent, almost without any trace of an accent already.
Tanya however, as I expected also, continues using English with me and Russian with children. From only “yes” and “no” at our first meeting, her English has come a long way,
being close to fluent today, except for some grammatical errors. Her Norwegian however, has been progressing very slowly after arriving here.
As with English, she has to learn by studying it herself, (lack of time and money for school). It has been improving a lot in the last few months however,
mostly because she needs it badly for communicating with customers lacking English. Probably needs another year before we switch to Norwegian for our communication.
Anyway, communicating on a deeper / more advanced level, will continue being somewhat restricted for years into the future.

In spite of these problems, Tanya has apparently decided to stay with me for years to come,,,
Will add more shortly....

Offline The Natural

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #711 on: November 04, 2017, 04:45:33 PM »
Hello Jan,

That doesn't sound quite right, a few red flags I'd say. Different standards for her and your children and keeping her salary for herself. Not good but I hope you get a solution for that.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #712 on: November 04, 2017, 05:52:59 PM »


The relationship between Tanya and my boys is still more than difficult. She consider them to be "Lena’s children”, and as such don’t want to be a “nanny" for her children.
She is so easily irritated and upset at whatever minor “wrongdoing” she finds in my boys behavior. While she sees straight through whatever faults are present in her own daughter.
With two sets of rules within our family, one for me and boys and another for Tanya and her daughter, my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.


Hey NK, thanks for being so up front about what you posted. 

You didn't ask for any advice, but i'm going to toss my two cents out there.   I don't care how pretty she is, based on what you just wrote regarding your children, and that alone, I'd kick either let her know she is out of your house, or she will be out in short order.   She has no children with you, and it sounds like she can take care of her own finances, so these are not concerns.

All the other issues I could compromise to some degree, but your children being treated as second class citizens for whatever reason really isn't something they should be subjected to.  They will remember the strain, and having to live in a nervous tension ridden household, and remember exactly how much their father was in their corner, or not.  What their dad prioritized and for what reason.   I'm imagining the household the way you described it and it doesn't sound good to me, I"m sorry to say. Of course I could be reading more into to than really is, only you know. 
Good luck,


In spite of these problems, Tanya has apparently decided to stay with me for years to come,,,
...and you have decided to stay with her apparently. 


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Boethius

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #713 on: November 04, 2017, 06:40:36 PM »
The relationship between Tanya and my boys is still more than difficult. She consider them to be "Lena’s children”, and as such don’t want to be a “nanny" for her children.
She is so easily irritated and upset at whatever minor “wrongdoing” she finds in my boys behavior. While she sees straight through whatever faults are present in her own daughter.
With two sets of rules within our family, one for me and boys and another for Tanya and her daughter, my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.

I predicted this when you began looking for a new wife before your ex had even moved out on her own.  This was totally foreseeable. 

Tanya's attitude is one that is common in Ukraine.  What is not common though, from this description, is her not seeing your sons as human souls who have had to deal with the pain of their parents' separation.  I suspect she is far from being able to see this, so it is unlikely the situation will change.  You can try counselling, to see if a third party can knock some sense and compassion into her on this front, but, I agree with FT, if the situation does not improve, your children will, in time, resent you for putting them in this situation.  Similarly, it is wrong of you to allow your relationship with Tanya's daughter to deteriorate. She is not responsible for the disparate treatment of the children.  I do admire you admitting your resentment.   

If things do not improve, perhaps it is time to make a choice, Tanya or your boys.  By this, I mean, either divorce Tanya or send your sons to live with their mother.  You have to do what is in your sons' best interests, and living with a fairy tale stepmother is not, I submit, in their best interests.
Quote
On top of this, my ongoing economic problems has added a lot of strain on our relationship,
Tanya is doing well with her business, but wants to use more money for herself and helping her family in Ukraine, instead of helping me pay our bills.

Personally, I think you are wrong not to expect she will send money to relatives in Ukraine.  This is common, in fact, the default for Ukrainians.  Every Ukrainian I know sends money to relatives, even if it is not significant amounts.  Having stated that, I believe a good indication of the health of a marriage is money matters.  In our home, all of our finances, but for pensions, are held jointly.  There is no "your money" and "my money".  Everything is our joint money, and what is spent is for the common good of the family.  My husband will always ask before he sends money to relatives.  He'll suggest an amount, I always double that amount, as he's paying transaction fees, so it makes more sense to send more.  Sometimes he listens to my suggestion, sometimes he doesn't.  I'm not suggesting this is the best way to handle things.  But I do think there has to be a consensus on certain household expenses, and then, perhaps, amounts that are personal to both parties.  So, if you and Tanya keep separate accounts and don't contribute to a "pot" of expenses, that is potentially a red flag on the health of your relationship.

Quote
In spite of these problems, Tanya has apparently decided to stay with me for years to come,,,
Will add more shortly....

Is it because she loves you, or is it because she needs you for continued Norwegian residency?  I'm not trying to be a skeptic here, or criticize you, nor am I suggesting you answer such a personal question online.  Rather, I am just asking if you have asked yourself this.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 08:05:36 PM by Boethius »
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Offline JayH

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #714 on: November 04, 2017, 07:19:11 PM »

On top of this, my ongoing economic problems has added a lot of strain on our relationship,

..
Jan -- nice to read the update -- not so nice to read of potential problems.
My immediate thoughts went to the quoted sentence  -- economic problems put a huge strain on ANY relationship .

It can be made even worse--when you attempt to prioritise  solving the the problem -- they are generalised observations.

The issues you describe of merged families is not that unusual anywhere ,potential problems always a reality. Perhaps even more so with a Ukrainian ?
That said -- all the children are growing up -- and that period is not easy in any family.
Helping family is what virtually everyone I know does. The opportunity to be able to do that is a driver for girls to look outside of Ukraine.
By and large --Mrs B covers it.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #715 on: November 04, 2017, 11:51:36 PM »
my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.



Tanya doesn't have much of a relationship with your kids. You aren't doing well with Tanya's daughter. It's not going to get better until you have a talk with Tanya and tell her you both have to grow up and do the right things to help the kids grow.

Also, Tanya is not a team player when it comes to pooling her money with yours to take care of bills. Seems she's living for herself unless she feels you mismanage money and it's better in her hands.
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Offline northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #716 on: November 05, 2017, 05:29:41 AM »
Natural, FT, Bo, Jay, Billy,
Thanks a lot for your comments,,,,,
I will try make a short answer before I continue the update.

No red flags as such in my opinion, but a difficult family situation, where I'm continually balancing on an edge, trying to keep conflicts to a minimum.
Kicking Tanya out is not an option at all :-)
I know very well that Tanya's attitude is one that is common in Ukraine, and totally foreseeable as such in general,,,
But I'm always optimistic, and on an individual level, generalities might not apply.
When reading Norwegian / Swedish forums about split family problems, it sometimes makes me feel quite comfortable with our relatively minor conflicts.

My relationship with Tanya's daughter is often hit by the difficult situation I'm in, when pressed into a corner,,, to side with my boys or with her in a conflict.
Being totally neutral isn't always an option. She is always siding with her mother, often against my boys.
These are mostly silly conflicts, often about minor things like; who forgot: to clean, close a cabinet, leave last piece of pie, feed animals, put shoes in correct place, and so on. 
Sofia gets very upset when Tanya is criticizing her, and for me to criticize her, about anything at all, is never accepted,,,
so butthurt,,, that I consider it not worth doing.

On the other side, me and boys are talking about these situations, being totally aware of the realities in these conflicts and trying to avoid any escalating at all costs.
But it sure feels like walking on needles every now and then.

Tanya on her side is criticizing me for splitting our family,, and has her own opinion of me being responsible for most of the conflicts :-)
Me and especially Lena should have learned boys how to do, and remember all of this and that.....

In reality a normal week is like this, me and boys leave for school / work 7.30, when Tanya and Sofia gets out of bed.
Sofia goes to training all weekdays in a neighbor city, Tanya and me are at work together, till Sofia is finished between seven and eight in the evening.
Boys goes to home after school / activities, and are at home in their room when we arrive at nine or so.
I will then make some food and we eat together, usually without Sofia, as she is keeping her special diet most days.
After eating, boys returns to their room, going to bed an hour or so earlier than Sofia.
On Friday after school, they go directly to Lena in Oslo, and returns by train directly to school on Monday morning.
So there are not a lot of hours in a week available for having conflicts.

Counseling wouldn't ever help for us at all,,
Tanya can't help being controlled by her feelings when upset, even though she knows it's not always a rational reaction.
I have learned to let her endless criticizing of me, pass through my ears.

Tanya is controlling every part of her economy all the time, and I have no problems with that.
I never ask how much she has in her account or what she made last month.
She contributes what she thinks is fair, and usually accepts my request for help with this or that bill to be payed. 
Having a common economy is not an option at this time, as my economy is a bottomless pit, that is drained for every penny the moment it arrives.

If Tanya is living with me for having permanent residency later,,, I used to ask myself about that when marrying with Lena 17 years ago.
Of course a beautiful and intelligent woman 27 years younger than me, must have been looking into the future and wondering about it.
For me, I'm rather pragmatic and happy for every day with her, as long as we have loving and close relationship together.
it might not last forever, neither do I have a lot more years in front of me being physically fit as a twenty year old man, as I am today.

Then for the update,,,,

As Tanya has a temporarily residence permit in Sweden only, we are living mostly in Sweden and partly in Norway.
Living like this, Tanya and her daughter will have a Swedish passport in February 2019, opening the door for leaving me if she wants to, for whatever reason.
Lately she has changed her mind and wants us to arrange for moving to Norway permanently at the beginning of next year.
If we are doing that, there is another 4+ years to wait for a Norwegian passport.
Tanya don’t want to discuss this, as she says she didn’t marry me for having a passport, and don’t care about the extra years waiting for it :-)
But for me it would be nicer for her to have the passport sooner,,, for traveling especially.

Anyway, there will be drastic changes next year,,,
I will probably be finished down-paying debt before springtime, and my boys will move permanently to Lena next summer when finished with school here in my hometown.
Lena found herself a man at the beginning of this year, which was very nice for me. Instead of calling me every day at least once, it’s now every week at lest once :-) 
She is doing well, and will buy a larger flat before boys are to start at college in Oslo next autumn.

More to follow
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 06:19:22 AM by northkape »

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #717 on: November 05, 2017, 06:04:58 AM »
This will get better when the boys move to their mother.
How old is Sofia?

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #718 on: November 05, 2017, 06:15:56 AM »
It certainly will Doll,,,
In summertime when boys are in Ukraine for almost two months, there are much less, and softer conflicts.
Twin boys and Sofia are all 14,,,
But she behaves, and looks like being 2-3 years older than them :-)

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #719 on: November 05, 2017, 06:28:53 AM »
It's a very tough age. All the children are jealous, as well as Tanya.
It was very predictable long before you found Tatiana- when the boys stayed with you after your divorce.

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #720 on: November 05, 2017, 07:38:44 AM »
Quote
Tanya can't help being controlled by her feelings when upset, even though she knows it's not always a rational reaction.
I have learned to let her endless criticizing of me, pass through my ears.

I sympathize completely. It's one of the biggest reasons my ex is my ex. Irrationality-criticism-silent treatment, that was the usual order, with a little bit of "don't touch me!" thrown in. Then she would blame me for not supporting her during her "crisis".

Best of luck NK.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 07:58:55 AM by mhr7 »
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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #721 on: November 05, 2017, 07:52:29 AM »
Tough situation, although I'm imagining it will ease up to some degree (But probably not entirely) after your boys depart which is a game changer. 

Good luck,
Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #722 on: November 05, 2017, 10:27:38 AM »
Hi Jan, thanks for extensive update.  Happy for the good news, sad for your bad news.

I have not much to suggest beyond what others have said.  It mostly just reflects the common problems of trying to integrate two families with teenage children.

I hate to be too picky with minor things, but . . .

1) Why didn't you immediately switch to Norwegian when she first arrived?

2) You said: "Tanya and me are at work together."
Do you mean at the same work location . . . or do you just mean you two are at work during same time period?

3) You are eating large meal after 9 in evenings??

4) How does this work out logistically  . . .  living mostly in Sweden and partly in Norway.
You have 2 different actual homes?  And how far apart are these homes?
And why isn't the Swedish language also part of the necessity for all of you??
How do the children attend school in Norway, if they live mostly in Sweden?

5) Children start college in Norway at age 15 ???
Is this really a college like children in USA start at age 18-19 after 13 years of secondary schooling (Kindergarten + 12th grade)?

Thanks, ML
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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #723 on: November 05, 2017, 11:30:32 AM »
Natural, FT, Bo, Jay, Billy,
Thanks a lot for your comments,,,,,
I will try make a short answer before I continue the update.

No red flags as such in my opinion, but a difficult family situation, where I'm continually balancing on an edge, trying to keep conflicts to a minimum.
Kicking Tanya out is not an option at all :-)
I know very well that Tanya's attitude is one that is common in Ukraine, and totally foreseeable as such in general,,,
But I'm always optimistic, and on an individual level, generalities might not apply.
When reading Norwegian / Swedish forums about split family problems, it sometimes makes me feel quite comfortable with our relatively minor conflicts.

But your optimism has real effects on your sons, who had no say in bringing Tanya into their lives, or how she relates to them.

I have often said that parents should not remarry while they have the responsibility of children, and this, and the split family problems, is the reason why.  Children have no say in the step parent brought into their lives, which is why they often act out.  And then, people are upset at the deterioration of "family values". 

Quote
My relationship with Tanya's daughter is often hit by the difficult situation I'm in, when pressed into a corner,,, to side with my boys or with her in a conflict.
Being totally neutral isn't always an option. She is always siding with her mother, often against my boys.
These are mostly silly conflicts, often about minor things like; who forgot: to clean, close a cabinet, leave last piece of pie, feed animals, put shoes in correct place, and so on. 
Sofia gets very upset when Tanya is criticizing her, and for me to criticize her, about anything at all, is never accepted,,,
so butthurt,,, that I consider it not worth doing.

The daughter should have ZERO say in this.  You and Tanya need to resolve this, and the children need to be told that their views on the matter are not required.

Our children are all close in age, only a year between our two oldest, 3 years between the oldest and youngest.  IMHO, growing up in a family of girls, and having an oldest girl and then two boys, girls are far more vicious, difficult, and bossy.  At the ages of your children, when there was a conflict (almost always involving our daughter and one of our sons, our sons never fought), the solution was simple.  If they were fighting over something, none of them had access to it.  It was removed because they couldn't resolve the issue.  We never had issues with them arguing over chores, it was always over the x-box, or control of the tv remote.  Solution?  It's gone for a day (and to be honest, that was my leniency, my husband would have taken it much longer-he gave them one warning, and that was it.  He once stopped driving, took a toy they were arguing about which he'd told them to stop arguing about, and ran it over.  So, from very early childhood, they learned how to resolve their conflicts before appealing to him.  I was the "soft" one, and their conflicts were always when my husband was at work).  So I suggest if there is an argument over chores, each of them be given a task that must be completed by X day, all on the same schedule.  When the consequences are less pleasant than the argument, the arguments will, eventually, stop.

I don't know how you can argue over who forgot to do chores, either they are assigned or they are not, and in the latter case, what good is the finger pointing?  Just call them all in, have them all do the chore together, and suggest they all try to remember their duties.
Quote
On the other side, me and boys are talking about these situations, being totally aware of the realities in these conflicts and trying to avoid any escalating at all costs.
But it sure feels like walking on needles every now and then.

Why are you avoiding this?  It should be resolved, not avoided.  Avoidance eventually creates resentment.  Also, why is this even an issue for Tanya?  She is coming home late, they are away all weekend, so it seems she barely interacts with them.
Quote
Tanya on her side is criticizing me for splitting our family,, and has her own opinion of me being responsible for most of the conflicts :-)
Me and especially Lena should have learned boys how to do, and remember all of this and that.....

From your description, it appears she is correct on the split, though if Tanya doesn't like it, she needs to be training them to do these things with patience.  It sounds as if she doesn't have patience and has a "my way or the highway" attitude.  It doesn't matter if you didn't teach them, complaining about it is non productive.

Quote
In reality a normal week is like this, me and boys leave for school / work 7.30, when Tanya and Sofia gets out of bed.
Sofia goes to training all weekdays in a neighbor city, Tanya and me are at work together, till Sofia is finished between seven and eight in the evening.
Boys goes to home after school / activities, and are at home in their room when we arrive at nine or so.
I will then make some food and we eat together, usually without Sofia, as she is keeping her special diet most days.
After eating, boys returns to their room, going to bed an hour or so earlier than Sofia/

This to me, is especially sad.  Your boys are really raising themselves.  Do they ever hear a positive word from Tanya?  When you look back at this time, will you honestly be able to say you spent quality time with your sons?  It seems to be a significant change from their life prior to your marriage.  Why not just let them move to Oslo now?  None of their activities or school work will suffer, long term, assuming their mother is home in the evenings.  Wouldn't that be better for them than being on pins and needles in their own home, and spending a majority of their evenings alone?  What kind of family life is this for them?  If payments are the issue, ask Lena if she can forgo some of that while you get back on your feet, with help from you as you can manage.

Quote
Counseling wouldn't ever help for us at all,,
Tanya can't help being controlled by her feelings when upset, even though she knows it's not always a rational reaction.
I have learned to let her endless criticizing of me, pass through my ears.

On a similar note, is this a joyful marriage?  Why would you want to be with someone who criticizes you endlessly?

Quote
Tanya is controlling every part of her economy all the time, and I have no problems with that.
I never ask how much she has in her account or what she made last month.
She contributes what she thinks is fair, and usually accepts my request for help with this or that bill to be payed. 
Having a common economy is not an option at this time, as my economy is a bottomless pit, that is drained for every penny the moment it arrives.

It sounds as if she is better with money.  Why not let her manage the finances?

Quote
But for me it would be nicer for her to have the passport sooner,,, for traveling especially.

She should have no problems travelling now on a Ukrainian biometric passport.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 11:46:27 PM by Boethius »
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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #724 on: November 05, 2017, 01:17:48 PM »

Northkape, I've always believe children are better off with both a mother and father even if one or both of them are not their biological parents. But if there is a failure of one or both parents to be a parent, then it is harmful to the kids. You got one shot to raise your kids/step kids in a healthy environment. Can't go back and undo mistakes.
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