Just friends ??

[JamesDH]

Stop the presses.

I just finished telling her how I feel and she said she feels the same.
She thinks about me 24 hours a day.

She had me going tho. questioned me very hard and gave me crap but.. in the end she admitted all.
Now to treat her right, go see her and fall madly in love.

I would sure like for this to have a happy ending.

[ML]

Unless a man is queer, he has two things on his mind: sex and food (roughly in that order).

Don't have citations, but I have read more than once that sex drive, from  high to low, is as follows:

Homosexual men
Hetrosexual men
Homosexual women
Hetrosexual women

[noelscot]

Don't have citations, but I have read more than once that sex drive, from  high to low, is as follows:

Homosexual men
Hetrosexual men
Homosexual women
Hetrosexual women

Inquiring minds want to know about the sex drives of (attractive) Russian lesbians. That's still within the scope of "Russian women discussion," right? It'll especially be within the scope once same-sex marriage visas are legalized in Western countries and some guy gets his woman stolen by a rich American lesbian attorney who is also tired of Westernized women and wants a "traditional woman."   

[calmissile]

Inquiring minds want to know about the sex drives of (attractive) Russian lesbians. That's still within the scope of "Russian women discussion," right? It'll especially be within the scope once same-sex marriage visas are legalized in Western countries and some guy gets his woman stolen by a rich American lesbian attorney who is also tired of Westernized women and wants a "traditional woman."   

Now that's a funny thought.  LOL

[Muzh]

Inquiring minds want to know about the sex drives of (attractive) Russian lesbians. That's still within the scope of "Russian women discussion," right? It'll especially be within the scope once same-sex marriage visas are legalized in Western countries and some guy gets his woman stolen by a rich American lesbian attorney who is also tired of Westernized women and wants a "traditional woman."   

See response to "sex in the dark."

[JamesDH]

Wouldn't you know it.. after taking away the "wall" our conversations have gone flat. no more photos every day. No more daily skype sessions. Maybe the challenge is gone, maybe the fire was only fake. I don't feel the need to rush to the computer to see if she is in Skype. When we do chat, I have a hard time finding words or common subjects. Just like that famous song, The thrill is gone.

You talk to different women looking for one that pushes your button and when you find her, or think you found her, it turns out to be a dud.

Back to the drawing board.

[BillyB]

You talk to different women looking for one that pushes your button and when you find her, or think you found her, it turns out to be a dud.

Back to the drawing board.

 
James, I think the woman actually liked you in the beginning and that is why you got lots of attention from her. She liked how you looked and your initial personality. I suspect you said something wrong, spooked her out, or didn't say enough at the right times so now she's looking for a new favorite or already found one. According to your profile you're 54 years old. At that age a woman expects you to have your stuff together. They have in their minds what the definition of a man is. If you were an 18 year old boy, a woman may forgive you if your social skills are lacking.  I think if you played your cards right, the woman would be yours. It was yours to lose. Live, learn and make some adjustments for the next lady.

[JamesDH]

I think it was more a case of "forbidden fruit is always sweeter".

It's always. you chase some, some chase you. Seems the ones that chase me are not as interesting as the ones I have to chase.
Could be that age old instinct from cave man days where you had to prove your strength and power to a woman or else she wasn't worth having.

[Patagonie]

Stop the presses.

I just finished telling her how I feel and she said she feels the same.
She thinks about me 24 hours a day.

She had me going tho. questioned me very hard and gave me crap but.. in the end she admitted all.
Now to treat her right, go see her and fall madly in love.

I would sure like for this to have a happy ending.

0000000

You have done a very classical mistake in seduction :

"I just finished telling her how I feel"

you said it yourself : "forbidden fruit is always sweeter".

You have killed yourself a large part of her interest. You had been the price, now you are just one of the numerous fruit on the tree. Of course it is really less exciting.

Guys : women prefer something exciting, They have so many guys who tell them, by dozens, every day, every week, so beautiful they are, and a bunch to tell them that "they have fall in love", while they never met.

James i told you "You have a lot of times, tell to this woman, for whom you have chemistry. 'You know what ? i can make a stop in Kiev the XX th february between two business trips for two days. It would be funny to meet and enjoy our time, i would like to visit the XXXX museum, go to the YYYYYYYYYY restaurant". Finish your mail by "are you free this week end ?" "
You would have kept her loosing her breath till your arrival. And have kept all your options open.

[BBC]

0000000

You have done a very classical mistake in seduction :

"I just finished telling her how I feel"

you said it yourself : "forbidden fruit is always sweeter".

You have killed yourself a large part of her interest. You had been the price, now you are just one of the numerous fruit on the tree. Of course it is really less exciting.

Guys : women prefer something exciting, They have so many guys who tell them, by dozens, every day, every week, so beautiful they are, and a bunch to tell them that "they have fall in love", while they never met.

James i told you "You have a lot of times, tell to this woman, for whom you have chemistry. 'You know what ? i can make a stop in Kiev the XX th february between two business trips for two days. It would be funny to meet and enjoy our time, i would like to visit the XXXX museum, go to the YYYYYYYYYY restaurant". Finish your mail by "are you free this week end ?" "
You would have kept her loosing her breath till your arrival. And have kept all your options open.

minus 1000 points!!! 

I can't believe that the luxury of loosing her interest is better to keep for dessert, until you arrive from overseas to meet this woman. If things are not supposed to work with the particular woman, you better to figure it our before investing time, money and your hopes into the trip. I'm sure that the disappointment would be much higher than what James feels right now.

I also can't understand why a man wants to cook up story about meeting a woman for 2 days in between b-trips, etc. E.g. if she was me, I'd be more "impressed" if I was told that a man (who I like) is to come solely to see me, rather than to fill the 2-days gap with me. Not all women feel the same as me I suppose, but it also depends on whether you want to manipulate with woman to keep her interest (for how long it will work, BTW), or be open and see what is her real face.
 
Any lie will come up sooner or later, and you can't be sure that once it's known to the woman whether it will be taken by her with humor and smile on her face, or with the stick in her hand  .

[Patagonie]

She knew that he was engaged, he told her.
She tried as hard as possible to keep his attention.
And now as he tells her that he is free and interested she has almost left the scene ?

Who has manipulated who ?
Who lied ?
And who now has to restart from far below rather than one week ago ?
Honesty for what ? Pen pal trafic ?


Last thing :
since you date men :
each time you meet a new one : you tell him right the money how many you have in contact ? With whom you have sex for the moment ?
I know the answer : you have never done such thing because it would have screwed up your chances and i and all my males friends have never met such type of women, all our lifes.
Is this not a little dishonest ? Is it not a little manipulation finally ?

It is only how the right journey of the world in dating. Let men do what they need to do to be successful as you do it on a daily basis.

[JamesDH]

What is it with me and this girl?
I am not a beginner at this stuff, I have talked to the most beautiful and the most humble. I can lay out sweet words and have them eating out of my hand quickly.
This girl is not "knock your sox off" beautiful or any thing special but I feel like a teenager fumbling with words to say with this girl.

I told myself it's all mental. She is just a girl same as the rest.
I fool myself into thinking I'm being myself with her when I'm not. It's impossible with that mental block I've laid up for myself.

What is the deal?
I have to get a grip.
How to bring her to the status of "normal woman" and get on with the romancing??
I want to go see her in February.

Jame

[Little_D]

Wouldn't you know it.. after taking away the "wall" our conversations have gone flat. no more photos every day. No more daily skype sessions. Maybe the challenge is gone, maybe the fire was only fake. I don't feel the need to rush to the computer to see if she is in Skype. When we do chat, I have a hard time finding words or common subjects. Just like that famous song, The thrill is gone.

You talk to different women looking for one that pushes your button and when you find her, or think you found her, it turns out to be a dud.

Back to the drawing board.

Hello James.

I may be wrong, but something in your posts tells me you want an abstract 'love' that will lead to an abstract 'happy marriage' while it doesn't happen this way. There are no ideal 'love stories' and the 'fire' will fade away one day anyway. Love is not only about sparks and chemistry, but also about patience and hard work, well at least the kind of love that a life-long relationship can be based on. If you want a romance with fire, chasing and seduction - that's ok. If you want a family - feeling is not enough, reason should be present as well. What will you do when you are married and find out one day that 'the thrill os gone'?

If you find the woman attractive, interesting and smart, if she likes you, if you both want a family - why not take one more step and see what future holds? Since you feel you have gone through the stage of initial interest, it should be time for the next stage. You will not know if you two were meant for each other untill you meet in person anyway, so why not try?

I hope I don't sound too critical, well, I certainly didn't meant to.
Good luck to you both in February. I hope all goes wonderful

[BBC]

She knew that he was engaged, he told her.
She tried as hard as possible to keep his attention.
And now as he tells her that he is free and interested she has almost left the scene ?

Who has manipulated who ?
Who lied ?
And who now has to restart from far below rather than one week ago ?
Honesty for what ? Pen pal trafic ?


Last thing :
since you date men :
each time you meet a new one : you tell him right the money how many you have in contact ? With whom you have sex for the moment ?
I know the answer : you have never done such thing because it would have screwed up your chances and i and all my males friends have never met such type of women, all our lifes.
Is this not a little dishonest ? Is it not a little manipulation finally ?

It is only how the right journey of the world in dating. Let men do what they need to do to be successful as you do it on a daily basis.

I’m not sure if your questions were raised in relation to my post above, as I don’t see the connection between my opinion and your reaction  . As I was taught that there are no stupid questions, but poor explanations, I'll try to explain my point again in a better way. Also, fyi - I don’t tend to support the position of women just out of the female solidarity (in fact, 90% of my best friends are men – yes, men, despite what’s written in this thread about the possibility of male-female friendship).  I’m also not the one who claims that my opinion is always right and the only one to be followed. If I needed to post questions on the forum, I’d expect to get various views which would help me to look on the problem from different sides which I wasn’t able to catch alone.

From what James posted so far, it looks like the friend-lady positioned herself as the one who either doesn’t know what she wants from men or likes to manipulate for reasons known only to her. It’s hard to accept what happened in the last week to James, quite a drop down I must admit, but I encourage to look on this positively as he was able to learn PRIOR to the meeting that the relationship with this woman wouldn’t go far. I wouldn't also state that he failed because he didn't listen what he was told by the forum members. What works for some men, don't have to be truth for others. If he didn't do what he did, he would never learn.

I don’t support the position of “the best defense is in manipulating” (if I got correctly your position), i.e. to be a liar and manipulator in order not to be deceived or manipulated. IMO if you are sure that the woman is not honest and tries to play with you – leave her, don’t waste time and emotions on her, and don’t close eyes on red flags. If she discloses that you play with her (don’t think that the woman with serious intentions will necessarily be so foolish and believe in the image you wear for her) – she will leave you, if not – too bad for her.

The openness with the potential life partner do not include exaggerations like revealing your bank account details or ongoing love affairs. Open position towards a woman is to make it clear if you are interested in her or not, so that you both could start or continue to learn each other (what values you have in common and what differs; your preferences for various matters like place to live, household routine, sex – there is nothing forbidden to discuss with your potential lifetime partner, you are both adults at the end; if you are able to tolerate your differences or compromise for the sake of togetherness, etc.). If you have a lot in common, you don’t have to cook up fake reasons to keep the woman’s interest. If the sign of her interest for you is the availability of the smile on her face, OK - humor and flirt (why not?) will serve for it well, the rest depends on your compatibility which you can't learn from one direction only (from her), without opening the same about you  .

[GQBlues]

OY!

Why is it all of the sudden I have this sneaky feeling the Arts & Crafts bell will soon call everyone to class. High school can sometimes be a bore, you know...

[Daveman]

...
I want to go see her in February.

That's the be all and end all, isn't it?  That was all you needed to tell her to begin the new path.  Leave the romancing for when you meet.  For now, just enjoy the mystique.

[JamesDH]

So much good advice and information. Thanks.

I put on my man shoes last night. Looked at her pictures again and convinced myself that she is just like any other woman, same needs, same desires, same wants, same everything.
We began chatting and my male instincts took over. I began dominating the conversation and dropped that "one wrong word and I'll be shattered" mindset.
we had a 2 hour conversation that left me smiling so hard my cheeks hurt.
She just needed me to be the man and when I was, I felt her being the woman.
Just like any other Ukraine woman I've talked to (almost).. she needs a man on the other side.

I'm leaving on the 12 of February and we'll be spending Valentine's together.

Never been to Kharkov.. any advice??

[BBC]

OY!

Why is it all of the sudden I have this sneaky feeling the Arts & Crafts bell will soon call everyone to class. High school can sometimes be a bore, you know...

 
I've heard something similar. Recently. From my daughter. 
Looks like I better go to the Time for some Humor thread. 

[Photo Guy]

Smart move James. I was going to say, 'Go spend a week with her.' When you click so well on an intellectual level, which is fairly rare, you MUST go meet in person to see if there's physical chemistry too. Just be yourself and relax and enjoy her company. Maybe you'll just be friends, but maybe more...

[TheTraveler]

Leave the romancing for when you meet.  For now, just enjoy the mystique.

i'm with daveman 100%.

[jone]

Never been to Kharkiv, but if I had, here's what I might say:

1.  Stay as close to City Center as you can.  While the Metro is accessible, most of the activities are downtown activities.

2.  I like flying in through Munich.  If you do, you can make a direct flight, skipping Kyiv.  Trust me, Munich is better if you have to spend a night than Borispol.  I've done both.

3.  If you need a good Terp, there are some on the Forum here, but I also have one that has been mine since I began showing up there.

I'll probably be there at the same time, if I can get my schedule completed before next week.  Ask your gal what part of the city she is from.  If she says Saltovka, you might want to make plans not to stay in City Center.  But I am sure she will have advice for you.

Glad to see you are wearing blue booties again.

-j

[MaryKuguk]

Hello, I am an interpreter and I have experience in this type of situations with my clients.
One of my clients had the same situation and I tried to help him and 'spied' a bit for him. What I found out, is that his lady - 'firend' is dating other guys and uses them for earning money. But - he could not say her anything about this - cause all this time they were just 'friends'.
So, if a woman really cares about U and U want to have relationships with her, I advice U to discuss with her Ur relations and suggest her to become a 'boyfriend and girlfriend' - as we call it here, in Ukraine. Or, she - like U - will be still free, which means she will have an opportunity to date other people.
This woman can be afraid of creating a couple - because of different reasons - like she was offended or hurt by other man in her previous relations. That's why - U have to help her - support her and show her, that U are serious about her. And what is most important - she has to see, that U have made decision to be with her - so U are not afraid to take responsibilities. This is what our girls are waiting for - but, unfortunately- can't get from Ukrainian men - Responsibility!
I wish U luck and love.
Marina.

[lonedrake]

I'm leaving on the 12 of February and we'll be spending Valentine's together.

 Well......How did everything go?

[JamesDH]

Hello, I am an interpreter and I have experience in this type of situations with my clients.
One of my clients had the same situation and I tried to help him and 'spied' a bit for him. What I found out, is that his lady - 'firend' is dating other guys and uses them for earning money. But - he could not say her anything about this - cause all this time they were just 'friends'.
So, if a woman really cares about U and U want to have relationships with her, I advice U to discuss with her Ur relations and suggest her to become a 'boyfriend and girlfriend' - as we call it here, in Ukraine. Or, she - like U - will be still free, which means she will have an opportunity to date other people.
This woman can be afraid of creating a couple - because of different reasons - like she was offended or hurt by other man in her previous relations. That's why - U have to help her - support her and show her, that U are serious about her. And what is most important - she has to see, that U have made decision to be with her - so U are not afraid to take responsibilities. This is what our girls are waiting for - but, unfortunately- can't get from Ukrainian men - Responsibility!
I wish U luck and love.
Marina.

Wow.. some of the most informative words I've seen on this forum.
How did it go??
It was like something out of a fairy tale. She is the most wonderful woman I have ever known.
Our time together was so romantic. I am a sensitive man and she is a sensitive woman.
She is much as you describe Mary. In our conversations she revealed that she is afraid of creating a couple, afraid to let go and trust someone. The first day was a little awkward as I am a little shy and she had trouble with English. She speaks quite a bit but was nervous just like me. I took her hand and never let go. I think that sent a signal to her. A signal that I am serious and ready to accept the role. Soon she was relaxed and we talked about everything under the sun. Our eyes met often and held the gaze longer and longer.
we were in my flat on the third day. We had wine and were standing in the kitchen. We turned toward each other and locked eyes. I could see the sparkle, I took her hand and pulled her close. Time stood still. We were there, forehead to forehead, talking small talk and I told her (women love with ears remember) that I was starting to feel strong feelings for her. She said she felt the same and she felt we were created for each other.
It was a magic trip and my feet have not touched the ground yet. We chat in skype every day and it seems each day the feeling get's stronger. She tells me every day that we were created for each other, the ideal couple. I believe it. We fit like hand in glove. So many common interests, common values, similar humor, both are affectionate and loving.

I noticed I never gave her age etc..
She just turned 44 on the 25 of March, She owns her own business and has her own car. She's traveled a lot and is very international. She is classy and elegant. She is soft and tender and sweet and smart and funny and loves to cook for me. She pampers me and teases me and I chase her around screaming then we fall in the floor laughing and kissing like teenagers. I've tried hard to think of one negative about her and I can't come up with one at this time. She is a realist and I am a dreamer. We compliment each other very well. I lift her up, she keeps me grounded.

I know this is not a proper trip report but I have little time as I'm at work. Maybe after the second trip on April 19 I'll make a good trip report.

[MaryKuguk]

Dear James!
I am very glad that the Cupid has done his work in Ur case.
I wish U both love and understanding.
I want U to know that mentality and men-women psychology differences will be more serious problem for U than different languages.
Women in our country (I mean the serious ones) have strong family values, huge and open hearts, they are smart, wise and sexy - on one hand. But! They are very sensitive, weak ( in a good way) and their feelings and emotions can stand on the way to understanding each other. If she starts crying or saying smth rude to U - in future - U should not be offended - women express themselves in this way sometimes. U have to calm her down - to show her - that U will love and support her. This is very important! In my experience - I had to explain this to my clients who had relations with Ukrainian women.
I wish U love and happiness.
Marina