She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...

[Vasilisa]

Perhaps if she offers him a prenup, to sell his home and match his proceeds to buy a home together, and gives him US$5000 monthly as "spending money", he'll consider it.

Seriously, Vasilisa, why is dating an AM if she is insecure about these issues?  I'm not saying she should give everything up, but logic dictates that if she has a successful business and doesn't want to give it up, if she wants to be independent, she should be looking for a man in Turkey or an FSUM man willing to relocate to Turkey.
  y.

Maybe she is. Who says she isn't?

[Boethius]

If she is, then she shouldn't be discussing future financial arrangements with Paulie.  Unless they are being presented as they are (i.e. unreasonable expectations) as a tactic to get rid of him.

[Vasilisa]

If she is, then she shouldn't be discussing future financial arrangements with Paulie.  Unless they are being presented as they are (i.e. unreasonable expectations) as a tactic to get rid of him.

Well, I haven't read the whole thread, but the first post states that she mentions what she wants in case she leaves Turkey, maybe she doesn't mind for him to come and live with her in Turkey.

I wouldn't get her the apartment she is asking for, but it's her right to ask for it especiаlly if she has to leave her life behind when "пенсия на горизонте".
I don't see any mad love here from any side: both the man and the woman are pretty materialistic, but again, that was what made them successful.

[Muzh]

Not at all.
If he LOVES her and TRUSTS her ( that is what you expect from her) he should be entirely happy to be with her no matter what. Money means nothing, love and trust is everything, isn't it?!

I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic.
 
Maybe I should have included this 

[BillyB]

The interesting observation: men here love to test women in all possible ways and want the women that don't pay attention to the financial moments and do everything according to their hearts' call.

Let's not over do it. Women still test men than vice versa.



There may come a point for every man to open his wallet freely with a woman. I don't tell my wife how to spend money yet she does ask my permission for  purchases that aren't necessities. I'm past the point of opening my wallet to my wife.


The issue here is at what point does a man share his wallet with his woman? If a man has a habit  to open his wallet early when dating women, surely he will get used by some and a fool and his money will soon part. He may be generous and women like that but he is also a fool and who will marry a fool?


If a man opens his wallet late or never at all, he is stingy and distrustful of his woman even if she's past the point of earning trust. Not good either.


If Paulie makes a decision to marry the woman giving into her demands thinking it's the right time to open his wallet, good or bad things will come depending on his woman more than himself. If she's a good woman, the handling of finances within marriage will be fine. If she's a bad woman, giving everything she wants will not change her and if divorce is to happen, it will have ugly written all over it.



Some people say you get what you pay for. I posted a profile of a woman recently who wishes her man to earn a million dollars annually. With that request does it make her a better woman than one that only needs a man's love and that he has a stable job that is adequate to feed a family and put the kids through college? How many men want to take a chance with that woman who demands more?


Paulie's woman doesn't need a million dollars every year but she needs $100,000 a year exclusively for herself. If the woman sells her apartment and business, will she share the money in the family pool with Paulie in exchange for an exclusive allowance for herself? I don't think so. Some may think she's giving up a lot but I think she not giving her apartment and business away for free if she comes to America.


Why do people here have bad feelings about Paulie's girl? What would you think of me if I take a part of my family's money for spending only on myself and my wife couldn't touch it? My wife entered our relationship with no money but is it fair I share money I earn unequally? If I did that, I know what you would think about me and that is the way people think of Paulie's girl.

Why can't he sell his business and move to Turkey if he loves her then?

That's an option but I don't think it's an option currently on the table since Paulie didn't discuss it. Maybe Paulie can clarify she doesn't want him to move there or he doesn't want to move there.

[Muzh]

Let's not over do it. Women still test men than vice versa.



There may come a point for every man to open his wallet freely with a woman. I don't tell my wife how to spend money yet she does ask my permission for  purchases that aren't necessities. I'm past the point of opening my wallet to my wife.


The issue here is at what point does a man share his wallet with his woman? If a man has a habit  to open his wallet early when dating women, surely he will get used by some and a fool and his money will soon part. He may be generous and women like that but he is also a fool and who will marry a fool?


If a man opens his wallet late or never at all, he is stingy and distrustful of his woman even if she's past the point of earning trust. Not good either.


If Paulie makes a decision to marry the woman giving into her demands thinking it's the right time to open his wallet, good or bad things will come depending on his woman more than himself. If she's a good woman, the handling of finances within marriage will be fine. If she's a bad woman, giving everything she wants will not change her and if divorce is to happen, it will have ugly written all over it.



Some people say you get what you pay for. I posted a profile of a woman recently who wishes her man to earn a million dollars annually. With that request does it make her a better woman than one that only needs a man's love and that he has a stable job that is adequate to feed a family and put the kids through college? How many men want to take a chance with that woman who demands more?


Paulie's woman doesn't need a million dollars every year but she needs $100,000 a year exclusively for herself. If the woman sells her apartment and business, will she share the money in the family pool with Paulie in exchange for and exclusive allowance for herself? I don't think so. Some may think she's giving up a lot but I think she not giving her apartment and business away for free if she comes to America.


Why do people here have bad feelings about Paulie's girl? What would you think of me if I take a part of my family's money for spending only on myself and my wife couldn't touch it? My wife entered our relationship with no money but is it fair I share money I earn unequally? If I did that, I know what you would think about me and that is the way people think of Paulie's girl.



That's an option but I don't think it's an option currently on the table since Paulie didn't discuss it. Maybe Paulie can clarify she doesn't want him to move there or he doesn't want to move there.

What about when she opens her legs?
 
The issue here is at what point does a woman open her legs to this man? If a woman has a habit to open her legs early when dating men, surely she will get used by some and a slut and her dreams will soon part. She may be 'generous' and men like that but she is also a slut and who will marry a slut?

[Misha]

Why can't he sell his business and move to Turkey if he loves her then?

Men are invariably judged by their jobs and their earnings. Such is life. That is why few men who are successful and have good jobs will move.

[BillyB]

What about when she opens her legs?
 
The issue here is at what point does a woman open her legs to this man? If a woman has a habit to open her legs early when dating men, surely she will get used by some and a slut and her dreams will soon part. She may be 'generous' and men like that but she is also a slut and who will marry a slut?

That's not the issue here. Paulie has not mentioned his girl could be a slut.

[Muzh]

I'm not talking about Paulie. I'm talking about what many men usually take for granted.
 
THAT is the issue here.
 
Boy, you are being slow today.

[Faux Pas]

Not at all.
If he LOVES her and TRUSTS her ( that is what you expect from her) he should be entirely happy to be with her no matter what. Money means nothing, love and trust is everything, isn't it?!

So all Paulie need do is offer her a pre-nup that guarantees love and trust? Shouldn't that be enough for them both? 

Vasilisa, your approach and thought process is likely to sink a budding romance if there is one. She wants 100K in property, paid education for her daughter and 5-6K a month compensation for what she is "giving up". If you or her will make me that deal, I'll be right over 

[pitbull]

Perhaps if she offers him a prenup, to sell his home and match his proceeds to buy a home together, and gives him US$5000 monthly as "spending money", he'll consider it.

Seriously, Vasilisa, why is she dating an AM if she is insecure about these issues?  I'm not saying she should give everything up, but logic dictates that if she has a successful business and doesn't want to give it up, if she wants to be independent, she should be looking for a man in Turkey or an FSUM man willing to relocate to Turkey.
 

My understanding is that she is willing to date and AM and move to the US, but on the terms that make her comfortable. Whether those are realistic or not is a different question. I can not say for this woman, but I have a feeling that she will be okay staying where she is if Paulie doesn't come through with the guarantees that make her feel secure. She doesn't seem to be in a particular hurry to get married.
By the same logic if Paulie wants a foreign wife and expects her to leave everything behind - he should be looking for someone less successful with no strong ties to her countries and little to nothing to lose.
The joys of dating when you are older 

[BC]

Havent read the whole thread but earning 5-7k in Istanbul would provide a very good quality of life.  I understand the costs for education for her daughter will soon be lower.  A city like Istanbul has a lot to offer that simply cannot be replicated elsewhere.  If the relationship is serious the OP could consider moving there..

[Muzh]

Havent read the whole thread but earning 5-7k in Istanbul would provide a very good quality of life.  I understand the costs for education for her daughter will soon be lower.  A city like Istanbul has a lot to offer that simply cannot be replicated elsewhere.  If the relationship is serious the OP could consider moving there..

Exactly.
 
This is what I meant that some guys just take these ladies for granted and only think about what they can give him.
 
How about a little give and take. You know, yin yang, in and out?

[pitbull]

Havent read the whole thread but earning 5-7k in Istanbul would provide a very good quality of life.  I understand the costs for education for her daughter will soon be lower.  A city like Istanbul has a lot to offer that simply cannot be replicated elsewhere.  If the relationship is serious the OP could consider moving there..

Great idea, BC!

[Patagonie]

Well, so far it sounds like  the man who started that thread doesn't lose that much, maybe financially, but anyway, if the relationship doesn't work out, he just steps away in a month or two and moves on.

What does she lose?

She strongly want to emigrate in USA now, because her daughter is living there.
Being in Turkey, she can find many turkish men, and the turkish economy is up for few years.
She can also very easily meet any europeans guys. Perhaps she lets him to come and really likes him more than others. But a women who prefers a country (or a nationality) will maximise her dating in the purpose to meet such men.
She is minimum 42 and more likely, for what the OP has written, to have let behind her ingenue time.

[BC]

She strongly want to emigrate in USA now, because her daughter is living there.

Not necessarily...  plenty of visits either direction are possible.

With one tourist visa to the US already, problems obtaining a visa in the future are likely minimal. 

She could easily find another man in the US to marry and overstay if that were her intent.

IMHO true GCG's are somewhat of a myth, evolving from circumstance and not premeditation.

[Doll]

What is "maximizing dating"?

[Doll]

Well, so far it sounds like  the man who started that thread doesn't lose that much, maybe financially, but anyway, if the relationship doesn't work out, he just steps away in a month or two and moves on.

What does she lose?

Everything or much. Unless she has savings and won't sell her kondo back in Ukraine.

[Vasilisa]

So all Paulie need do is offer her a pre-nup that guarantees love and trust? Shouldn't that be enough for them both? 

Vasilisa, your approach and thought process is likely to sink a budding romance if there is one. She wants 100K in property, paid education for her daughter and 5-6K a month compensation for what she is "giving up". If you or her will make me that deal, I'll be right over 

That's not MY approach since as for me  I left my life behind because of the guy and suffered the consequences later, because believe it or not, but men do tell LIES and very often don't keep their promises.

So I am not saying I support the lady's approach but I do understand her as a woman.
Guys here love to mention some fantastic stories about Russian MDs that made huge income in Russia and still moved in the US and happy to work as cashiers in Macy's and Walmart now but I personally don't know such stories.
Some women with so-called "successful" professions either migrated long time ago (60-ies or 90-ies)when  doctors actually made very little money in Russia, like $70 or they owned some business with their grown up kids, or they were hired employees that would find a similar job in the US easily but I don't know any women that owned their own business and made $7,000-$10,000 in Russia and left everything to work as a cashier in Walmart because they fell in love with an American they found in the Internet and he promised a lot.

[Misha]

made $7,000-$10,000

Most people would not be leaving earning such money unless:

• They knew that they would soon be earning a lot less;
• They want to leave because the money is not worth the risk or other disadvantages that they face if they stay there;
• They don't really earn what they say they earn.

Given that the cost of living is quite reasonable in Turkey, I would expect that a woman earning $7,000 to $10,000 in Turkey would easily be able to put away several thousand dollars per month even if she wasn't all that frugal and much more if she was. If she worked any length of time earning those wages (a few years lets say) she would already have a nice little nest egg already set aside for a rainy day and she would not really need a guarantee to ensure her security


That is why I would say that the most likely scenario is the third...

[Faux Pas]

That's not MY approach since as for me  I left my life behind because of the guy and suffered the consequences later, because believe it or not, but men do tell LIES and very often don't keep their promises.

So I am not saying I support the lady's approach but I do understand her as a woman.
Guys here love to mention some fantastic stories about Russian MDs that made huge income in Russia and still moved in the US and happy to work as cashiers in Macy's and Walmart now but I personally don't know such stories.
Some women with so-called "successful" professions either migrated long time ago (60-ies or 90-ies)when  doctors actually made very little money in Russia, like $70 or they owned some business with their grown up kids, or they were hired employees that would find a similar job in the US easily but I don't know any women that owned their own business and made $7,000-$10,000 in Russia and left everything to work as a cashier in Walmart because they fell in love with an American they found in the Internet and he promised a lot.

Forgive me the shock value Vasilisa. I like you and always have. I understand your position but, your comments here have somewhat championed this woman's cause. There is a very wide gray area here. My contention from the start is how one could possibly put a price tag on what this woman did so quickly. They've known each other only 8 months. That alone is enough for me to caution the OP. Quite honestly, IMHO when one can place a price on something as intimate and personal as a marriage/relationship, you're swimming in deep waters in concrete boots.

I asked my wife earlier about this situation. I gave it a 1 in 10 chance of survival and she said 1 in 100. She doesn't read this forum but does read some RW forums. I couldn't in any decency advise a man in Paulie's situation to move forward. I read you to be a woman of high moral character. Please answer honestly, can you if this was your father, relative or friend, could you advise him to pursue this woman?

[noelscot]

I am wondering if this is a 'conniver.'

She is a conniver. Straight up. She is setting you up to be her sponsor.


There are literally thousands of sincere women out there. Don't let this woman push you around. Tell her "Eta ne moya problema. Dasvidaniya!" 

[TheTraveler]

more than a few posters have referred to the paulie's rw needing to sell her apartment in turkey.  in his first post, i'm pretty sure he referred to it as a 'decent rental apartment'.  perhaps paulie can clarify.

[lordtiberius]

My two cents is, that while security is necessary, a relationship built on money is not a relationship at all.  She does not yet trust you.   I can't say it won't happen, but you're not there yet.

ditto, I say DX this fish and move your boat elsewhere.  I got a bad feeling about this

[TheTraveler]

She is a conniver. Straight up. She is setting you up to be her sponsor.


There are literally thousands of sincere women out there. Don't let this woman push you around. Tell her "Eta ne moya problema. Dasvidaniya!"

at first, i kinda felt sorry for paulie.
 
but the more i read his story, he doesn't come across to me as a sympathetic character.
 
at this point, i'm actually amused by what i hope will become a cautionary tale of how *not* to date.
 
he led with his wallet *inappropriately* -- throwing all kinds of money around for things that he should not be paying for: computers, plane tickets for her (not his) daughter, *cash*, etc...
 
completely lacking in self confidence, he took the lazy road: playing the role of the bigshot with the fat wallet, throwing chum off the back of the boat.  and now he has 'jaws' climbing into his lap, and he's looking for advice!  should i give her a monthly $5k stipend and buy her a personal condo?  btw... paulie mentioned $100k for the condo.  what kind of crappy condo can you buy in cali for $100k?  And since i'm assuming that this woman is actually going to live with paulie, i'm guessing the condo is for her daughter!
 
anyway -- i think she's called big-spender's bluff!!
 
does anyone here think he has the kind of coin that he was projecting to hook her in the first place?  judging by her demand for a reverse-dowry, she evidently has her doubts.
 
i can't wait to read where this one ends up...
 
ps:  apologies to anyone with a $100k condo in cali!