Growing a Thick Skin…

[chipmonk]

Normally, the issue in this topic will be needed when one is in the near married or married stage of a WM/RW relationship.  However, it is best given here where there is some time to let it sink in.  And for some, will give the opportunity to pause and reflect if this endeavor is really the 'right' road to find one's true soul mate.

This is a heads-up for all those WM that refuse think that Russian women are no different than any other woman.  Those who believe that Russian women will respond to the 'sensitive male' or the man who is in touch with his 'feminine side'.  I got news that it isn't going to happen.  And if they do respond, it will most likely not be to your liking.  

Russian women are basically very traditional when it comes to gender roles.  They are looking for a strong husband that will represent and protect the family; one that will make decisions and then back them up with all that he is worth; a man that has a strong character.  

If a husband is found to be lacking in these qualities, then the Russian woman will have not recourse but to take charge and handle the family on her own.  They are perfectly capable of this and will do it in a New York minute it they determine that their husband is in their mind, weak.  Even that seemingly meek reticent beauty can unfold as a lion out of nowhere.

Now, weakness is a relative term.  I'm referring to weakness in a Russian sense.  A RW will not abandon her Russian sensibilities just because she may pass an imaginary line that demarcates her homeland from yours.  When she steps foot on your homeland, she is still 100% Russian, and will think that way for some time to come.  Therefore weakness is in the sense of 'Russian' weakness.  

Perhaps some will recall the topic of 'RW and Arguing.'  This is getting to the meat of my dialog.  One of the most important tests for finding out the mettle of the WM is to see how correctly and strongly a man will defend his position against his most precious.  In many Western cultures, an argument or many heated arguments are often shied away from in an early marriage since this is suppose to be the honeymoon period.  However, these are not typical marriages and RW are not typical wives.  

One will know when they are in earnest, hammering out the status of the relationship when they start to argue.  And they will argue hard and often.  For them it is a 'no holds barred' event.  They may throw everything at you, including the kitchen sink.  Nothing is spared in the course of arguing. Your response will determine your fate and the fate of the relationship.

For them it is a matter of practicality.  They can't afford a weak husband jeopardize the family.  In this sense the arguments are not personal, despite their apparent aggressive nature.  One may have a seemingly terrible argument with threats of going home, divorce and everything in your homeland sucks including your family.  The next hour later everything is fine and right with the world.  This is the pleasant outcome if one has a thick skin and stands his ground.  

One can't just stand their ground silently either.  One must argue passionately, reasonably and insistently.  One must give the impression that one is willing to jump into a fray at a moment's notice, if none at all.  An argument can occur at anytime or place and must be pursued on the spot despite how inconvenient the timing maybe.  This may sound like drastic measures, however not to do so will put one in a worse situation.  One will become 'material' for them to mold.

The up side is that if you are a real 'man" in the RW's eyes, the arguments will lessen in frequency and intensity.  The RW will come to respect you and love you more for the attention and tenacity you have given her and the family that you will have with her.  She will feel protected and safe with you.  She will thank her lucky stars that you chose her to be your wife.  

The question that one has to ask is, "Am I such a man." or, "Can I become such a man."  The art of argument is a skill that can be learned like any other skill.  Can one cast aside one's inhibitions and go for it?  To grow a thick skin is not being callous.  To be able to flip the internal switch and not take things personally is a bit harder to do, however it is possible for those that embrace this endeavor.

Be the 'man'!

[Bruno]

This is a heads-up for all those WM that refuse think that Russian women are no different than any other woman.

Hello Cheap Monk, i don't know what is your origin planet... but in a few post, you seem to repeat agency propaganda with beautiful word... you write good and think bad...

I have think that russian women was different than any other women... result was the loose from more of 5 year of my life, a lot of money and a child that i have love... yes, russian women have some cultural difference but they stay women and act like the majority of women in these world...

RW are not superior to other women, they are different in some way... but one positive side is compensate by a other negative... They are not the "holy grall"... for take your example about argumentation, they usually win, same if you are right... men logic seem not reach women in the same way...

[rose]

[size="3"]Chipmonk,
when I read the place where you were describing the argument, I recalled myself 18 years ago. It looked exactly the way you've described. I remember my ex-husband (with whom we are still great friends) after such arguments tried to talk to me and figure out his line of behaviour: I didn't like when he was silent during those arguments, but I was not happy if he argued back, either. He was really puzzled what to do. The truth is that I don't know what I wanted at all. It was just the way my parents behaved, the parents of my friends, my friends.
Your suggestion that we (RW) argue because we want to see that our men are strong is wrong. Yes, we want to see strong men next to us, we need it for survival reasons: we need to build family (nest), to bring children, we need to be sure that the man will provide food and safety. But it seems to me only idiot will expect to prove it through the argument. I think the reason why RW behave like that is simple lack of communicative skills.
Now it seems funny to me, but I remember my surprise, when after 2 years of living here, I suddenly realized that all situations can be discussed calmly, there is no need for arguing.

Additionally, I think Russians show their emotions more often than Americans, who raised in an absolutely different way. And if we don't like something, we might say about it, but AM, who doesn't used to see such kind of behavior will think that we start arguing, and... the show goes on.

A strong man... who he is? well, remember the movie "Holes"? Remember that thread of a story where Patricia Arquet was playing a teacher? Ans a black guy, sorry, african-american guy who went to visit her? Remember, no matter what problems she had, she would turn to him for a help and he would say: "Don't worry, I'll fix it!"
We, RW, are strong, but we still want a man, who in a moments when we are loosing our strength would tell us that everything will be ok, and he'll take care of it.


[/size]

[tim 360]

Egads Obi Wan!  When is your book coming out?  You should save these pearls of wisdom for the book,  not to leak them willy-nilly onto the internet.  There are men who will gladly pay for your wisdom.  Maybe a self-help dvd too?  And a bibliography would be nicey. 

[jb]

Chipmonk,

Just curious, how long have you been married to a Russian?

[Son of Clyde]

This is a heads-up for all those WM that refuse think that Russian women are no different than any other woman.

Hello Cheap Monk[/quote]Sorry Bruno I had to laugh when I read this. I think it was a typo.

[Son of Clyde]

I do agree that the sensitive male might be in trouble if he meets an agressive RW.

I have been in this situation. How does one deal with it? I try to make my opinion known and I have to realize that although I may feel I am correct there is still the culture difference. For example, if I say my doctor is good and she says all American doctors suck, I have to stick to my opinion. She will never change her opinion, if she does it may take years to trust our doctors. Apparently Russian people do not go to a doctor whenever there is a problem.

All I can say is that the past 8 months have been the happiest and most stressful in my life. 

[Voyageur]

I can say that sometimes I cannot predict what will happen when I show a strong behavior. It is usually after a reaction where I do not censor or think about what I am going to do or say. I characterize this as behavoir that an AW would not apreciate :huh:. But it has the opposite effect (sometimes) in my case. After being married so long to an AW, I find that I have to re-train myself sometimes - now that I am married to a RW.

But, being too strong and arrogant and opinonated in your ways also does not work well, either. I find that you have to listen to the "neck" that steers you to keep everyone calm. Also, the instincts of my wife are usually correct after thinking about them.


And about growing a thick skin - this is also true.  The bluntness of the family life in Russian culture was somehting that I had to get used to - but now that I am used to such discussion (i.e. not Politically Correct at all, normally), it is quite refreshing and enables a closer communication.

[PeeWee]

[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:

I do agree that the sensitive male might be in trouble if he meets an agressive RW.

I have been in this situation. How does one deal with it? I try to make my opinion known and I have to realize that although I may feel I am correct there is still the culture difference. For example, if I say my doctor is good and she says all American doctors suck, I have to stick to my opinion. She will never change her opinion, if she does it may take years to trust our doctors. Apparently Russian people do not go to a doctor whenever there is a problem.

All I can say is that the past 8 months have been the happiest and most stressful in my life. 

What happens when she does need a doctor? Return to Russia for medical treatment?

Peewee

[jb]

PeeWee,

Russian women do not like the assembly line approach to doctor's office visits here.  Russian doctors will spend much more time with each patient and they believe they are getting his full and undivided attention.  Here, typically they are stuck in a treatment room and have to wait for 15-20 minutes to see the doctor for 3-5 minutes before he is off to the next cubicle and the next patient.   To the RW this seems impersonal and makes them feel unimportant. 

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

[Jet]

Agreed JB

My wife was STUNNED when visiting a Doctor in Key West toward the end of our honeymoon. Doc asked "what's wrong?" she said "hurts here and here, I think I may have a Bladder infection..." and he wrote her a 'script' for an antibiotic. She couldn't believe the doctor would actually take her word for it, without running any tests, or checking further for himself. Whole encounter lasted about 3 minutes.

She did gain just a slight bit of confidence when the medication worked and she was feeling "all better" by the following morning .

[ConnerVT]

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

There is value in American health care?  Unfortunately, you need to be in really bad shape before you see that value returned to you...  :?

[jb]

Ok,,, ok,,, Perhaps I used a wrong word there, the only people getting "value" from the American health care system are the Insurance Companies (BlueCross/ BlueShield etc.) and the mal-practice lawyers.

I was referring to the time it takes for a RW to develop any confidence in American doctors.

[BC]

Western doctors have to learn that when no ailiment can be found they should act like they do know what is wrong and prescribe some kind of harmless herbal medicine.

[PeeWee]

PeeWee,

Russian women do not like the assembly line approach to doctor's office visits here.  Russian doctors will spend much more time with each patient and they believe they are getting his full and undivided attention.  Here, typically they are stuck in a treatment room and have to wait for 15-20 minutes to see the doctor for 3-5 minutes before he is off to the next cubicle and the next patient.   To the RW this seems impersonal and makes them feel unimportant. 

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

I have a friend who lives in Moscow. I would imagine if it happens in Moscow then it must be the same through out Russia. When daugher is ill a doctor always comes to the home to see her. My second thought is why not have your wife seek out a Russian doctor now practicing in the US? Would they not have adapted to the American system? My third thought is that the woman that I am currently communicating with is a doctor. There seems like there are so many of them in Russia. I wonder, should she arrive in the US to live, if she would like to return to medical school to remain a doctor and if she did if she would practice in the old way or if she would adapt to the system of "hurry up and wait"?

 

Peewee

[David1963]

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

After being to the dentist here my wife misses her former dentist.  She would visit him at his apartment, he worked out of it.  It was just her, him and no anesthetic.

She seems to prefer that to the dentist here.  I took her to the dentist in November and ever since then her teeth have been needing something.  She says that I should have never taken her to the dentist because once he touched her teeth, that is what caused all the problems.  She said you never go to the doctor or dentist unless there is a major problem.

Hence the $20K in dental that is being accrued faster than my insurance maximums allow.

[Son of Clyde]

I know of American men who travel to Ukraine to have dental work done when they have the time. A crown costs about $250.00 per tooth compared to $750.00 and up in the US. I had two crowns done about 15 years ago so the prices I am sure have skyrocketed.

[KenC]

[user=681]David1963[/user] wrote:

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

After being to the dentist here my wife misses her former dentist.  She would visit him at his apartment, he worked out of it.  It was just her, him and no anesthetic.

She seems to prefer that to the dentist here.  I took her to the dentist in November and ever since then her teeth have been needing something.  She says that I should have never taken her to the dentist because once he touched her teeth, that is what caused all the problems.  She said you never go to the doctor or dentist unless there is a major problem.

Hence the $20K in dental that is being accrued faster than my insurance maximums allow.

David,

This is very common.  What you will learn is that fsu denistry is inferior.  It is inferior in technology and in materials used.  Most work done in the fsu will eventually have to be redone here.  My wife's dentist has found root canals supposedly competed in Russia where the Russian dentist missed a nerve or two, for example.  Or fillings where some substandard material was used.  The substandard work just has to be done again, the correct way.  I am sure that there are some dentists in say Moscow or Keiv that have the latest technology, but they are far and few between.  Those dentists that do have the latest and greatest available to them, charge handsomly for their services too.  (More than what the average person can afford there)  Just how technically current could a dentist be, working from his apartment?

KenC

[PeeWee]

It usually takes a while before the RW sees the value of American health care. 

After being to the dentist here my wife misses her former dentist.  She would visit him at his apartment, he worked out of it.  It was just her, him and no anesthetic.

She seems to prefer that to the dentist here.  I took her to the dentist in November and ever since then her teeth have been needing something.  She says that I should have never taken her to the dentist because once he touched her teeth, that is what caused all the problems.  She said you never go to the doctor or dentist unless there is a major problem.

Hence the $20K in dental that is being accrued faster than my insurance maximums allow.
[/quote]
David,

This is very common.  What you will learn is that fsu denistry is inferior.  It is inferior in technology and in materials used.  Most work done in the fsu will eventually have to be redone here.  My wife's dentist has found root canals supposedly competed in Russia where the Russian dentist missed a nerve or two, for example.  Or fillings where some substandard material was used.  The substandard work just has to be done again, the correct way.  I am sure that there are some dentists in say Moscow or Keiv that have the latest technology, but they are far and few between.  Those dentists that do have the latest and greatest available to them, charge handsomly for their services too.  (More than what the average person can afford there)  Just how technically current could a dentist be, working from his apartment?

KenC
[/quote]
Substandard materials? Never! Not in Russia! Along those lines, I am involved in a number of ways with the airline/aircraft industry. Last summer entire fleets of the Ilushin 96 series had to be grounded when it was discovered that mechanics had used inferior metals in the braking systems. President Putin's jet was delayed for 2 hours as a result of it which did not make Vladimir very happy. As a result all of Aeroflot's jets were grounded for, I believe, 90 days which in turn put a great strain on the operation of the entire airline as other, Boeing equipment, had to be substitued for the 96s. I have never seen a bigger society of corner cutters than I have observed in our Russian counterparts.

 

Peewee

[Maxx]

[user=118]jb[/user] wrote:

 

Chipmonk,

Just curious, how long have you been married to a Russian?

4 years, which is equivilent to 28 AW/AM years.

Chipmonk is Ronin, the ex-mod from RWG. He is a fellow seasoned, battled hardened  RW/AM war veteran and not an agency schill. He deserves respect!

Maxx

 

[David1963]

Chipmonk is Ronin, the ex-mod from RWG. He is a fellow seasoned, battled hardened  RW/AM war veteran and not an agency schill. He deserves respect!

Maxx

 

Thanks Maxx,

I found that to be a very informative and acurate, from my experience, post.

 

[David1963]

David,

This is very common.  What you will learn is that fsu denistry is inferior.  It is inferior in technology and in materials used.  Most work done in the fsu will eventually have to be redone here.  My wife's dentist has found root canals supposedly competed in Russia where the Russian dentist missed a nerve or two, for example.  Or fillings where some substandard material was used.  The substandard work just has to be done again, the correct way.  I am sure that there are some dentists in say Moscow or Keiv that have the latest technology, but they are far and few between.  Those dentists that do have the latest and greatest available to them, charge handsomly for their services too.  (More than what the average person can afford there)  Just how technically current could a dentist be, working from his apartment?

KenC

 

My wife has 4 root canals, you can see on the x-rays that two were done good and the other two were only partially done.  The material used prevents them from being re-done in the future, so if they go bad the only option available is to pull the teeth.

The crowns for her cost about $350.00 each, when insurance pays for half.  With this lastest trip we just maxed out the $1,500 per year limit so anything else will be fully out of pocket.  :huh:

For all those that travel to the FSU for cheap dental work, good luck, we won't be taking our chances.

If you want to get a $30 bridge and $5 fillings just PM and I'll give you the name and address to my wifes former dentist.   

 

[JPjr]

Just for the record, I alerted Ronin to the very 1st post of his copywrited essays and he told me he was not Chipmonk.   JPjr

[Admin]

Just for the record, I alerted Ronin to the very 1st post of his copywrited essays and he told me he was not Chipmonk. JPjr

If anyone believes they have copyrighted material being posted here against their wishes, they need only contact me and I will take appropriate action.

My email address is: icpilot_at_yahoo.com.

- Dan

[Maxx]

Thanks for the heads up JPjr.

Any relation to Jay Patches? Whose real first name rhymes with Vance, chance and romance? 

Maxx