Sad day

[Boethius]

I don't equate going to work to support someone, showing love. If so, then I truly love myself all these years!!I don't know either how hubby showed his love...maybe for him it was being faithful, going to work and coming home....and spending his free time on his game. Again we don't know all the facts...but one thing was very clear...Aloe was not happy. There should be no blame...only two people that were not growing together only apart.

I think anything done not solely for yourself is showing love, so that includes work, cooking, cleaning, etc. 

I disagree about no blame in a relationship.  If one assumes "Oh well, that didn't work out, the next time will be better.", without examining one's role in the demise of a marriage, the patterns will repeat in the next relationship, and the individual will not grow.  Both Aloe and her husband would benefit from looking at what, in each of them, caused their marriage to break down.  Then each will be able to search a more suitable partner, and work on those areas in themselves that need improvement, for future relationships.

[Misha]

I don't equate going to work to support someone, showing love.

I would say that most women wouldn't either. The problem is that it is easy to enter into a downward spiral. Men want respect, women want love, and when one feels slighted, they withdraw from the other and the other retaliates by taking away what the other wants. I.e. man gives less love, women treats him with less respect, and in turn he shows less loves, etc.... We had a pastor friend who organized a marriage course and they needed another couple so we recruited. It was not bad: http://loveandrespect.com/. Though it was based on religious principles, it did a good job of showing how couples can easily get on a downward crazy cycle.

[Ooooops]

Men want respect, women want love...

[Misha]

True, but she specifies that she wants "just a little bit" 

[BillyB]

I don't know the actual statistics; but from what I heard from several FSUW, you are incorrect.

Those several RW are wrong. In modern times in non Muslim cultures, women everywhere initiate divorce more than men. In dating, in short term relationships, in long term relationships, and in marriage women say "goodbye" to men much more than men say that to women.

Care to back that up? I didn't think so. 

No, not for you. You didn't say the magic word "please". Go ask Olga to back up her statement. Here's a tip for her to reply positively: Change your tone and use the magic word next time you want someone to educate you.

I don't equate going to work to support someone, showing love.

Would you work 8 hours a day everyday to feed, clothe, house, and finance a college education for a bum on the street? Would you do ALL that for your brother or sister? Probably not for a bum and maybe some for a sibling but you would do ALL that for your wife and kids. Why? Would you call it charity or are you doing it out of love?


Aloe's husband has done ALL that for Aloe but she wants much more and shown little gratitude. I sometimes think her husband likes to sit on his computer all day after work to play games and other times I think he wants to just get away from an ungrateful wife that belittles him. Aloe admits to doing little at home so what does she do and offer for her husband or future husband? Just leaving him isn't going to solve all her problems.


Aloe has big dreams and some people say "Leave and go for it!" She can search for a wealthy man who will hire a maid to take care of the house and they will go on vacations around the world or she can earn her way in life as most ladies have or are doing. Study, build her life with her husband and in 20-40 years they will have enough saved up money to travel the world.


Aloe made the same mistake many of us did. We married not fully understanding our role and a spouse's role in marriage. We, the spouse, or both of us failed at our responsibilities and the easy way out is to divorce instead of fixing our problems. Aloe married a man she thought was cool, had things in common with her such as video games and talking about cars. They both married for the wrong reasons and were not ready to be an adequate husband or wife.

[Faux Pas]

No, not for you. You didn't say the magic word "please". Go ask Olga to back up her statement. Here's a tip for her to reply positively: Change your tone and use the magic word next time you want someone to educate you.

There is that overinflated ego posting on the board again. You're not capable of educating anyone Billy unless it is on being a clown. Please has nothing to to with it, you know you can't. Neither can Olga and her post doesn't magically make yours true.

As usual you start with your asinine juvenile conclusion stated as fact and then make up shit in an attempt to prove you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't.

[Welder]

I think anything done not solely for yourself is showing love, so that includes work, cooking, cleaning, etc. 

I disagree about no blame in a relationship.  If one assumes "Oh well, that didn't work out, the next time will be better.", without examining one's role in the demise of a marriage, the patterns will repeat in the next relationship, and the individual will not grow.  Both Aloe and her husband would benefit from looking at what, in each of them, caused their marriage to break down.  Then each will be able to search a more suitable partner, and work on those areas in themselves that need improvement, for future relationships.

That's a good post Boe.  Unfortunately I went through a divorce.  It is a humbling experience.  For sure I made mistakes and learned from them.  It was one of the main reasons I encouraged Aloe to seek professional opinions.  A therapist can usually route out the issues and make one aware of their role in a break down.  Hopefully both will learn and become better mates in the future.

[OlgaH]

Neither can Olga and her post doesn't magically make yours true.

No, Faux Pas, I don't think I can do and I don't practice magic 

Regarding the divorce rate if to compare the studies between Russia and the US, the divorce rate is rather higher in Russia. It is also can be explain that Russians tend to marry earlier.

According to UN Demographic Yearbook Russia has the highest rate divorce in the World... also is leading in suicide rate.

[Gator]

   Beyond the abuse, and not taking the female's side for granted - it aint easy being everything, everytime, everyday for anyone 24/7 beyond being a good husband.     

I missed this post initially.  This is an excellent point that seems to have been overlooked.

What is your definition of a good husband? 
 
You have a loving relationship of many years with your husband, yes? And I know you consider him a good husband.  Some questions about your good husband:   
 
-   Does your husband sit at home almost every evening playing video games?   
 
-  If you want to go out and socialize, does he say "no" every time? 
 
-  Does he insist on playing only his music? 
 
-  Does he order you to do housework, tell you how to do it, and refuse to help? 
 
-  Does he drive the only car (a gift from your parents) and make you take the bus? 
 
-  Does he demand that you tan yourself or he will divorce you? 
 
-  When you were living with him in his country, did he do little to help you adjust? 
 
-  If you did something remarkably good such as progressing faster than any other foreign student, did you hubby criticize you rather than praise your accomplishment? 
 
-  The first moment you met him, did he aggressively force a kiss on you before speaking a word? 
 
-  Did he grab you menacingly around the neck, push you, and shake you?
 

 
I very much doubt that your standards for "good husband" are that low.  I assert that hubby has not been a good hubby, much less suggest that hubby is trying to be "everything. everytime, everyday 24-7."  GQ is so wrong with what he implies, yet you support his position.

GQ, being the skeptic he is, correctly points to the fact that we do not have the hubby's testimony.  However, if only one third of what Aloe reports is true, this is an "open and shut case" against hubby.

[Faux Pas]

No, Faux Pas, I don't think I can do and I don't practice magic 

Regarding the divorce rate if to compare the studies between Russia and the US, the divorce rate is rather higher in Russia. It is also can be explain that Russians tend to marry earlier.

According to UN Demographic Yearbook Russia has the highest rate divorce in the World... also is leading in suicide rate.

Billyb must think so.  Billyb is a pitiful soul constantly seeking affirmations and attempted to use your posts to support his.

Russia might lead the world in divorce rate but, it isn't by much over the U.S.. Both countries are roughly 50%. Billyb states that Russian and Ukrainian women divorced their husbands at a higher percentage than do American women. This is bullkaka 

All he needs to do is prove it and I'll retract, he can't. He can't possibly know that and he'd be hard pressed to find any data where that information could be mined. It's just typical Billyb M.O., starting with a conclusion and making up facts to support it.

[Gator]

I think going to work everyday to support not only himself, but her, is showing love.

Sweet suffering Jesus!  If he does not work, how does he support himself and contribute to society?  Do you believe that people who can work yet do not want to work are entitled to government support.   Working  is life.  Supporting her is his marital responsibility! 

[Gator]

Aloe has garnered much sympathy at RWD save for a few who believe that there is much more to this story. 
 
Aloe has been telling this story at RWD for many years.  She has been consistent, and that indicates much.  She has chronicle a steady decline of their relationship.  I feel her story is either true or she is a clever, pathological liar.  My few PMs with Aloe suggest that she is more  innocent and sweeter than what comes out in her posts.  Thus, I believe Aloe.
 
Yes, we don't know much about hubby.  However, I have this intuitive feeling that the situation is worse than how Aloe portrays it.  Let us consider one option.  Could it be that hubby is a mama's boy?  Perhaps his mama does not approve of the marriage, and mama is a constant undercurrent interfering against the marriage?  Her husband seems so immature that he can not comprehend the complexity of what is happening.

[BillyB]

According to UN Demographic Yearbook Russia has the highest rate divorce in the World...

According to many divorce sites a few years ago, Russia's and Ukraine's divorce rate hovered around 65%. Lately the same sites list Russia's and Ukraine's divorce rates in the low 40%. Either spouses started to behave on a large scale and divorces declined or those governments have a "family friendly" image problem and need to use propaganda to show things aren't so bad to keep people from leaving.

Russia might lead the world in divorce rate but, it isn't by much over the U.S.. Both countries are roughly 50%.

Billyb states that Russian and Ukrainian women divorced their husbands at a higher percentage than do American women. This is bullkaka 

All he needs to do is prove it and I'll retract, he can't.

I'll make a deal with you. You back up your statement of both countries divorce rate is roughly 50% and I'll back up mine proving you're wrong. You criticize me for making statements without backing them up so put up or shut up.

She has chronicle a steady decline of their relationship.

I'm sure her husband could chronicle a decline too. They both accuse each other of being lazy and not wife/husband material. They remind the other of their faults and belittles them. Putting a spouse down and making a husband/wife feel worthless escalates the arguments instead of solving the problems. Aloe thinks her husband is not smart, lazy, and she has little respect towards him. We know how her husband reacts but how does Aloe behave and talk to her husband? Could be of the tone Faux Pas uses with me or GQ with you. Those kinds of tones don't repair relationships in the forum or in marriage.

[GoodOlBoy]

Now I am starting to get a clearer picture of why Aloe has allowed this abuse to go on and not reported it to the proper authorities:
 
http://forcechange.com/44314/allow-belgian-immigrant-victims-of-domestic-violence-to-report-abuse-without-fear/
 
"Belgium has a serious and unfortunate gap in its policies protecting immigrant women from domestic violence. If a woman immigrates to Belgium to join a partner but does not become a citizen, she can be deported after reporting domestic violence. This has created a large-scale problem of Belgian immigrant women being trapped in abusive relationships. There should be no connection between reporting domestic violence and deportation."
 
Unbelievable!
 
GOB

[Faux Pas]

I'll make a deal with you. You back up your statement of both countries divorce rate is roughly 50% and I'll back up mine proving you're wrong. You criticize me for making statements without backing them up so put up or shut up.

No deal. Do you own homework.You really can't stand it when you get called on all that shooting off of the mouth you do. I called you out Billyb, now prove it, measure up or STFU. You made the claims.

I'm sure her husband could chronicle a decline too. They both accuse each other of being lazy and not wife/husband material. They remind the other of their faults and belittles them. Putting a spouse down and making a husband/wife feel worthless escalates the arguments instead of solving the problems. Aloe thinks her husband is not smart, lazy, and she has little respect towards him. We know how her husband reacts but how does Aloe behave and talk to her husband? Could be of the tone Faux Pas uses with me or GQ with you. Those kinds of tones don't repair relationships in the forum or in marriage.

Off topic yet again and seeking more approval Billyb? Your attempts at dragging others into supporting your moronic claims is noted. You and I have no relationship Billyb. Never have, never will. Stop your fantasizing

[Shadow]

Yes, we don't know much about hubby.  However, I have this intuitive feeling that the situation is worse than how Aloe portrays it.  Let us consider one option.  Could it be that hubby is a mama's boy?  Perhaps his mama does not approve of the marriage, and mama is a constant undercurrent interfering against the marriage?  Her husband seems so immature that he can not comprehend the complexity of what is happening.

If you have read all prior posts of Aloe you would know that hubby is a mama's boy for sure. He has experienced a broken relationship and lived with his mother until Aloe 'stole' him.
In some of her first posts Aloe describes how mama shops for hubby.

For hubby, Aloe should be a perfect replacement of mama with added benefits.
And if mama would believe that the 'foreign girl' is not the best hubby could get, however wrong she may be in that, it will influence him.

What I seem to read in her posts is that when Aloe and hubby are communicating together they get along. Then for some reason hubby comes home and behaves different. Who that influence is that makes him turn around we can only guess.

[Misha]

There was also the info that Aloe gave that hubby is trying to model himself after his father who in her account does seems to have a somewhat dysfunctional marriage (though who knows).

[Gator]

Thanks Shadow and Misha.  I do not recall Aloe posting about hubby's parents.  The psychologist counseling Aloe should be able to ascertain quickly if they are an issue.   

[Boethius]

I missed this post initially.  This is an excellent point that seems to have been overlooked.

 
What is your definition of a good husband? 
 
You have a loving relationship of many years with your husband, yes? And I know you consider him a good husband.  Some questions about your good husband:   
 
-   Does your husband sit at home almost every evening playing video games?   
 
-  If you want to go out and socialize, does he say "no" every time? 
 
-  Does he insist on playing only his music? 
 
-  Does he order you to do housework, tell you how to do it, and refuse to help? 
 
-  Does he drive the only car (a gift from your parents) and make you take the bus? 
 
-  Does he demand that you tan yourself or he will divorce you? 
 
-  When you were living with him in his country, did he do little to help you adjust? 
 
-  If you did something remarkably good such as progressing faster than any other foreign student, did you hubby criticize you rather than praise your accomplishment? 
 
-  The first moment you met him, did he aggressively force a kiss on you before speaking a word? 
 
-  Did he grab you menacingly around the neck, push you, and shake you?
 

 
I very much doubt that your standards for "good husband" are that low.  I assert that hubby has not been a good hubby, much less suggest that hubby is trying to be "everything. everytime, everyday 24-7."  GQ is so wrong with what he implies, yet you support his position.

GQ, being the skeptic he is, correctly points to the fact that we do not have the hubby's testimony.  However, if only one third of what Aloe reports is true, this is an "open and shut case" against hubby.

I never posted Aloe's husband was a good husband, only that I agree, one person can't be everything to everyone.  That is very true, I think.  To play your game, if her hubby were posting here, my questions would be about whether a good wife allows a husband to come home, after a long day at work, to a dirty home and a wife who slept until noon, whether a woman who wants to spend the family budget on entertainment, knowing they are on a strict budget, is reasonable, whether a good wife is reasonable in expecting to live in the city although decent apartments are out of the family's price range, etc.  Note - these are not meant to criticize Aloe, just to point out that every story has two sides.

My husband did kiss me aggressively the second time we met.  Suffice to say, I did not resist and the rest is history.   

From all I have read, both were immature and probably not ready for the responsibilities of living with another person.  It appears neither confronted, in a mature manner, behaviours that had a detrimental effect on the relationship.

While it is great on a forum to give support, and I certainly hope that, whatever happens, Aloe finds happiness, this marriage didn't break down on one side only, and Aloe needs to look at her own role, and what she expects in life, if she is going to find happiness in the future.

[ML]

My husband did kiss me aggressively the second time we met.
Suffice to say, I did not resist and the rest is history.

Oh my!!  Does the word hussy come to mind?   

I hope you have learned to be more demure.   

[Boethius]

Sweet suffering Jesus!  If he does not work, how does he support himself and contribute to society?  Do you believe that people who can work yet do not want to work are entitled to government support.   Working  is life.  Supporting her is his marital responsibility!

We have very different views of respect for the roles in marriage, I suppose.


In my hubby's family, both his grandfathers thanked their wives for preparing family meals.  When I prepare a meal, after dinner, my husband always kisses my hand and thanks me for preparing his meal.  Now, I am not in any way in the league of cooks the Grandmother with whom he grew up was.  She would make Julia Child look like a rank amateur.  However, he still appreciates the effort, just as I appreciate when he fills my car, or shovels the walks, or changes my flat tire, or fixes the plumbing.  I always thank him because I want to be constantly reminded not to take him for granted. 


I have always worked and supported myself.  I never needed a man to support me, but I still appreciate the fact my husband goes to work to support his family.

[Boethius]

Oh my!!  Does the word hussy come to mind?   

I hope you have learned to be more demure.   

Hussy.  Now there's a word I haven't heard in like, forever.


P.S. - I don't think my husband would be happy with "demure"

[Ooooops]

To play your game, if her hubby were posting here, my questions would be about whether a good wife allows a husband to come home, after a long day at work, to a dirty home and a wife who slept until noon, ...


...whether a woman who wants to spend the family budget on entertainment, knowing they are on a strict budget, is reasonable, whether a good wife is reasonable in expecting to live in the city although decent apartments are out of the family's price range, etc...

I thought that Aloe was a full time student, no? 


I've got an impression that Aloe came from pretty well off family, so her demands are based on her habits from pre-merital life.   Another thing that it is possible to adjust to new reality but...   we have what we have in this case...

[Boethius]

I thought that Aloe was a full time student, no? 


I've got an impression that Aloe came from pretty well off family, so her demands are based on her habits from pre-merital life.   Another thing that it is possible to adjust to new reality but...   we have what we have in this case...

When Aloe first moved to Belgium, she was home all day.   Aloe posted that her husband complained about her failure to vacuum and maintain their apartment.  I supported her position then, and still do, because he made demands, rather than approach what was a minor problem in a reasonable fashion.  She didn't post that he grabbed her, though, IIRC.

Both had to adjust to a new reality.  Grabbing your wife because she doesn't do your bidding is intolerable behaviour as well, and I suspect this is the result of his immaturity.

[Ooooops]

Had to Google what IIRC stands for...       I haven't read first posts by Aloe, so I didn't know about that.   In any case - it is a very small issue in my opinion too.   Especially at this age when two of them got married...