Sad day

[ML]

Why are man - woman relationships so difficult ????   

Very depressing at times to even think about.

[die_cast]

Maybe Mom has been smacked around and choked also?
It would explain her indifference to Aloe's plight.

Nope. There is old Russian tradition to live with a man who doesn't respect his wife and think she'd not find any better.
Married woman is happier than unmarried one a priori. Those women think that better to be unhappy in marriage than to be alone because it's not possible to be happy alone.

[BillyB]

On the other hand, after knowing this little about Aloe's mother, now I am less surprised at how Aloe always finds her "faults" in her husband's bad behavior. It's becoming more obvious where are the roots of this tree.

As of now, we don't have both sides of the story and we don't know if Aloe started the domestic dispute. Her husband being immature may have pushed Aloe against the wall and told her to shut up in an effort to end the dispute. Being immature is not being a wife beater. Aloe's husband loves her. He let her leave the apartment on her own free will, packing her bags, and taking her computer. She did not leave the apartment in an ambulance.


Mies, you're taking this too personal to the point of bad mouthing Aloe's mom without getting the other sides of the story. Scary, and I hope you don't threaten your husband with divorce at every sign of trouble.

[mies]

As of now, we don't have both sides of the story and we don't know if Aloe started the domestic dispute. Her husband being immature may have pushed Aloe against the wall and told her to shut up in an effort to end the dispute. Being immature is not being a wife beater.

"Your honor, I am not guilty in fracturing my wife's scull and breaking her rib. I was immature and pushed her, several times, that's my only fault. In 10 years from now, when I will become older and wiser, and mature, I can be accused of beating my wife. But at present time I was/am acting upon my immature impulses, trying to end the verbal dispute started by her. Being immature doesn't make me a wife beater."

Aloe's husband loves her.

And how do you know THAT? Or, sorry, i forgot Aloe's husband confides in you all his thoughts and feelings. How often do you talk with him? At least once a weak.

 

He let her leave the apartment on her own free will, packing her bags, and taking her computer. She did not leave the apartment in an ambulance.

I am not quite sure what you want to say here. That the only way woman may leave apartment and husband is carried out, "legs first?"
{FSU culture 101: http://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%83+%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0+%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%8F%D1%82+%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8+%D0%B2%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a}

Mies, you're taking this too personal to the point of bad mouthing Aloe's mom without getting the other sides of the story. Scary, and I hope you don't threaten your husband with divorce at every sign of trouble.

  Billy, I have my opinion about some topics, and this opinion is different from yours. There are certain behaviors that I do not find justifiable.  Also, I have not noticed your willingness to listen to the "other side of the story" of the wife who cheated on her husband. Why is that, I wonder, that you don't find any words in her defense. Doesn't she deserve her story to be heard too? Maybe she is just immature.  Or maybe you have very selective and gender-specific feeling of justice. You basically said in that thread  that the womanis not a "high quality woman" because she was married to a guy who drinks and gambles.

[Ranetka]

Also, I have not noticed your willingness to listen to the "other side of the story" of the wife who cheated on her husband. Why is that, I wonder, that you don't find any words in her defense. Doesn't she deserve her story to be heard too? Maybe she is just immature.  Or maybe you have very selective and gender-specific feeling of justice.

Actually it's very easy to apply Billy's logic there.


He drunk, he gamble, he did not provide, he did not give good sex. He was not a good husband. So she left. There.


People before you start screaming, I am just applying Billy's logic there, not mine.

[TheTraveler]

actually, in their last dispute, aloe was the initiator of the physical violence.

she raised a glass threatening to hit him over the head with it.

when aloe announced that she and hubby were coming to america, i couldn't believe how many posters were offering to host them for a visit.

i would never expose my happy home to either of these troubled people.

[mies]

actually, in their last dispute, aloe was the initiator of the physical violence.

she raised a glass threatening to hit him over the head with it.

She wasn't threatening her husband with the glass. She was threatening to break the glass. Following your logic, any woman can be beaten by her husband just because she has arms and can potentially harm him with these arms.
I like Aloe and I would welcome her in my home, but I have little interest of getting to know her husband, based on the stories on this forum. The man who "touched"/used physical force against his wife/gf/any woman disappears from my world the moment he did it. If he is immature enough to do it, he isn't mature enough to communicate with me.

[Boethius]

Aloe has posted she was not trying to hit him with the glass, and she threw it on the ground in frustration. 

As for your second post, that is exceptionally unfair.  Aloe is not here on a daily basis.  She only comes here when she either has happy news she wishes to share, or if she is unhappy.  She uses the forum as a sounding board.  Look at the pattern.  She is not here often.   I highly doubt either of them would be arguing in the presence of hosts, and I am certain they will be lovely guests to whoever they meet.

[TheTraveler]

She wasn't threatening her husband with the glass. She was threatening to break the glass.

it was an act of violence.

when someone raises a glass overhead in a heated argument, only a fool would assume it's not going to be used as a weapon against him.

you are not a mind reader.  neither is her husband.

[Boethius]

Except that, he didn't attack her then.  He choked her after she threw the glass on the floor.  That is inexcusable.

[mies]

it was an act of violence.

when someone raises a glass overhead in a heated argument, only a fool would assume it's not going to be used as a weapon against him.

you are not a mind reader.  neither is her husband.

Really?


Nooooooo....

[TheTraveler]

Following your logic, any woman can be beaten by her husband just because she has arms and can potentially harm him with these arms.
I like Aloe and I would welcome her in my home, but I have little interest of getting to know her husband, based on the stories on this forum. The man who "touched"/used physical force against his wife/gf/any woman disappears from my world the moment he did it. If he is immature enough to do it, he isn't mature enough to communicate with me.

when i pointed out aloe's prior violence against her husband, you decipher that as me justifying violence by her husband?

is there a place where such amateurish, junior high school debate tactics actually work?  (besides junior high, that is)

[BillyB]

Also, I have not noticed your willingness to listen to the "other side of the story" of the wife who cheated on her husband. Why is that, I wonder, that you don't find any words in her defense.

Other side of story is not here but I'm willing to listen if she shows up. What does Maxxum's thread have to do with this? You think I was his personal cheerleader and didn't recognize Maxxum's faults? I criticized his addictions and how fast he made a decision to visit the woman and that his mind could have been clouded in his decision making.



Ladies, don't be haters! Youngbuck earlier mentioned how can people whisper sweet nothings to each other one day and smash in their face another. If he marries a woman with differing views on hot topic issues, he will understand. When people disagree, they can get emotional, scream, call each other names, throw and break things, and even use physical violence. Because some RW disagree, they view me and Aloe's mom who probably heard the other side of the story, as monsters failing Aloe.     I and Aloe's mom are some of the few people here trying to fix and strengthen her marriage while most others are calling for divorce.

Aloe has posted she was not trying to hit him with the glass, and she threw it on the ground in frustration. 

Everybody demands to hear the other side of the story! Is it necessary? I don't think Aloe's husband is a mind reader and knew where that glass was going to be thrown so he reacted in a physical way to restrain her.

[mies]

when i pointed out aloe's prior violence against her husband, you decipher that as me justifying violence by her husband?

is there a place where such amateurish, junior high school debate tactics actually work?  (besides junior high, that is)

Junior high is where your bullying might have worked 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N7uG6J5fp3Y

Do you think the arguing woman at 0:46" should be chocked? She looks like she is going to hit the young man, and her gestures are very aggressive.

[TheTraveler]

Except that, he didn't attack her then.  He choked her after she threw the glass on the floor.  That is inexcusable.

you are now just making stuff up.

she didn't throw the glass on the floor.

in aloe's own words...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15045.msg307153#msg307153

[Boethius]

So she was going to smash it on the floor.  Not much of a difference.


I wonder how my husband (a real man) would react.  He'd get up and leave.  He wouldn't attack me.  There was absolutely no justification, zero, for attacking her.  He knew it as well, which is why he eventually apologized.

[TheTraveler]

Junior high is where your bullying might have worked 

Do you think the arguing woman should be chocked? She looks like she is going to hit the young man, and her gestures are very aggressive.

now i'm a bully, too?

you're hysterical honey.

take a break from the computer and try doing some yard work.  it's good for the mental health!  :-)

[mies]

in aloe's own words...

"So he yelled "don't you realize I live here TOO???? you are so selfish, i just wanna listen to my music, i come home from work tired" Soi answered (first time in 3 years i have yelled, and im not exaggerrating, i've always made it a point to never ever yell in an argument, but this time i was fed up, so i yelled back that i cant stand his music and it really ruins my well being having to listen to it every evening. That's when he turned it up to a really loud volume and put his middle finger up, and not just put it up, but held it there. So after a few seconds of viewing his middle finger, i reached for the glass in front of him intending to smash it on the floor because i was angry. So he jumped up and pushed me to the wall with his hand around my neck and when i was against the wall and choked for a second from his hand, he took the glass and let go my neck (so no glasses were broken), set the glass down, then grabbed me by the shoulders and started pushing and yelling. And by pushing i mean holding my shoulders (arms? above elbows) and walking towards me forcing me to step back, for the distance of about 3 meters. Dunno anymore what he was yelling then."

1) man provoked the conflict by loud music and refusing to turn the volume down.
2) man was the first to yell.
3) man shows the middle finger to his wife. (!!)
4) after she takes the glass - he chokes her and pushes her.
In whose world that may be interpreted as a self-defense of a man who just wanted to stop the argument initiated by his wife?

This is a very serious, dangerous, and scary situation, and I've been to some quite sh-tty and scary situations in the past.

Anyway, one thing you are right about is that I should be out of this thread. I get upset by it too easily, and I feel really sorry for what Aloe has to put up with. I also get upset by realization that men with opinions like yours and Billy's actually exist and aren't just a product of feminists' imagination.

[TheTraveler]

So she was going to smash it on the floor.  Not much of a difference.

i think it does.

but if you thought it made no difference, then why'd you alter her story?

[TheTraveler]

"So he yelled "don't you realize I live here TOO???? you are so selfish, i just wanna listen to my music, i come home from work tired" Soi answered (first time in 3 years i have yelled, and im not exaggerrating, i've always made it a point to never ever yell in an argument, but this time i was fed up, so i yelled back that i cant stand his music and it really ruins my well being having to listen to it every evening. That's when he turned it up to a really loud volume and put his middle finger up, and not just put it up, but held it there. So after a few seconds of viewing his middle finger, i reached for the glass in front of him intending to smash it on the floor because i was angry. So he jumped up and pushed me to the wall with his hand around my neck and when i was against the wall and choked for a second from his hand, he took the glass and let go my neck (so no glasses were broken), set the glass down, then grabbed me by the shoulders and started pushing and yelling. And by pushing i mean holding my shoulders (arms? above elbows) and walking towards me forcing me to step back, for the distance of about 3 meters. Dunno anymore what he was yelling then."

1) man provoked the conflict by loud music and refusing to turn the volume down.
2) man was the first to yell.
3) man shows the middle finger to his wife. (!!)
4) after she takes the glass - he chokes her and pushes her.
In whose world that may be interpreted as a self-defense of a man who just wanted to stop the argument initiated by his wife?

This is a very serious, dangerous, and scary situation, and I've been to some quite sh-tty and scary situations in the past.

Anyone, one thing you are right about is that I should be out of this thread. I get upset by it too easily, and I feel really sorry for what Aloe has to put up with. I also get upset by realization that men with opinions like yours and Billy's actually exist and aren't just a product of feminists' imagination.

and you'd welcome her into your home?

i wouldn't allow either one of them anywhere near my beautiful family.

too much risk for too little reward.

[Boethius]

I didn't alter the story.  Did she threaten him with the glass?  No.  Did she throw it on the floor?  Yes.

[mies]

and you'd welcome her into your home?

her? Sure. What would make me not welcome her into my home?

How would you react if your spouse yelled at you and gave you a middle finger?

[lonedrake]

Did she threaten him with the glass?  No.  Did she throw it on the floor?  Yes.

 Go back and read it. No glass was thrown on the floor.

[Boethius]

OK, so she intended to throw it on the floor.

i reached for the glass in front of him intending to smash it on the floor because i was angry.

It still is no justification for her husband to lay hands on her, which is what some posters are excusing.

[BillyB]

OK, so she intended to throw it on the floor.

But she didn't. Her husband quickly neutralized the situation and took the glass out of her hand. It's safe to say he felt threatened by her actions.

It still is no justification for her husband to lay hands on her, which is what some posters are excusing.

Who are those people excusing the behavior? We all agree his action are immature and we would've handled it differently. I'm ok with the fact he used physical means to remove the glass out of Aloe's hand. I'm just surprised how many people think he should go to jail for this but then again, look at our laws and how it's trending.

I wonder how my husband (a real man) would react.  He'd get up and leave.  He wouldn't attack me.  There was absolutely no justification, zero, for attacking her.  He knew it as well, which is why he eventually apologized.

Did you read what Aloe said before her hubby apologized? She was never going to do it again. That is her apology for her unacceptable behavior.