Sad day

[TheTraveler]

It still is no justification for her husband to lay hands on her, which is what some posters are excusing.

maybe i missed it, but i haven't seen any posters claiming aloe's husband was justified.

but after your unsuccessful attempt to embellish aloe's story, i guess the natural next step is to flog a straw man.

[Boethius]

Go back and reread this thread.   Some posters have claimed he was justified because she was "threatening" him.

[Ade]

Holy crap, I can't believe grown men justify spousal abuse - well, okay, I can believe it from BillyB as he's a freak, but really, they cowboy dude as well? What do they put in the water over there?

[BillyB]

Holy crap, I can't believe grown men justify spousal abuse -

Quote those men.

I can believe it from BillyB as he's a freak, but really, they cowboy dude as well?

Only you can start fights in threads when someone's down. What next? Starting a fight in someone's obituary thread?

Go back and reread this thread.   Some posters have claimed he was justified because she was "threatening" him.

I went back and reread. Waste of my time. Help us out and quote someone.


Let's say there was a domestic dispute. Police are called and wife raise a gun toward husband's direction. Police shoot but wife survives to tell judge she was going to shoot at the ground, not at the husband and she wants to be financially compensated for their negligence. Think judge is going to scold cops for their actions?


A glass is a different story and doesn't require a bullet to stop a person. If Aloe's husband didn't use force to take it out of her hand, from his perspective he may have lost an eye but he'll never know because it didn't happen since he did the right thing. If Aloe's husband raises his fist and cocks it back, should she assume he's going to aim for something else or should she go to jail if she grabs his hand, twists it behind his back in an attempt to neutralize the situation?

[TheTraveler]

Go back and reread this thread.   Some posters have claimed he was justified because she was "threatening" him.

or a bigger person might say...
 
'you know, after re-reading your posts, i realize my mis-interpretation of your posts.  you weren't justifying aloe's husband's violence.  you really said that both aloe and her husband sound like a psycho couple -- neither of whom you'd allow near your family.  my bad, cowboy dude!  let's do drinks!'    ;-)

[Boethius]

Or perhaps I did read the below as a justification for Aloe's husband attacking her, so I can't, in all honesty, post such an apology without further clarification from you. 


mies apparently read the post in a similar manner, based on her posts.  As did Ade.

it was an act of violence.

when someone raises a glass overhead in a heated argument, only a fool would assume it's not going to be used as a weapon against him.

[GQBlues]

I can only hope, regardless of opinions expressed in this thread, that Aloe and her hubby can find a way to work things out within themselves.

As for this latest silliness, there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse or justification, provoked or otherwise, that any man should physically abuse a woman. If hypothetically, I was the one having that silly argument with a woman and she raced up towards me to grab a glass - whatever her intent is - does not justify me physically manhandling that woman to submission.

First off, I would never ever be in such a situation where a woman's state of anger dictates her course of action to levy 'mortal harm' upon me. Secondly, I just as well allow that woman to throw that glass on the floor, or at me, and let her stupid action be enough to show her her own stupidity. There's no need for another word from me much less an aggressive attack upon her either before or after her action. I will simply walk away and never to return back and let her action/s be her own judge and jury.

[mies]

A glass is a different story and doesn't require a bullet to stop a person. If Aloe's husband didn't use force to take it out of her hand, from his perspective he may have lost an eye but he'll never know because it didn't happen since he did the right thing. If Aloe's husband raises his fist and cocks it back, should she assume he's going to aim for something else or should she go to jail if she grabs his hand, twists it behind his back in an attempt to neutralize the situation?

Billy (and Traveler), are you suffering from some kind of PTSD? Are you on medications?
I would understand if you were talking about the attacker who wants to kill you, maybe the armed robber on the street, then the terms "neutralize", "act of violence" etc. may be justified. For God's sake, you are talking about the woman, and wife!!!  Even if the man thinks that the woman wants to throw the glass at him (and why would he think that? Is there any evidence indicating she could do it? Do you know many men who lost the eye that way? Unlike the statistics of battered wives, there is no statistics of men who lost their eye to the glass skillfully thrown by their wife, but I digressed) - I think it takes less time to avoid the glass, maybe even leave the room (and save the hypothetical eye), than to approach the woman and choke her. What's wrong with you, guys? What women do you associate with if the first thought that runs through your mind when you see a woman is that she wants to make you half-blind or harm you? What kind of woman (or man) raised you if you think that your beloved wife wants to go all the way and cause you some sort of serious bodily injury? Do you think there are many women who want to go to jail for leaving her husband one-eyed.. Jeez... 

[TomT]

Billy (and Traveler), are you suffering from some kind of PTSD? Are you on medications?

I can't speak for the Midnight Cowboy because I haven't read much of his material but the Elephant Man of international relationships has been known to me for nearly a decade. The fellow has never let ignorance prevent him from forming an asinine opinion. He just makes up possibilities, no matter how absurd or far-fetched, to fill in the blanks.

[TheTraveler]

Traveler, do you have a habit of showing middle finger to your wife and yell at her?

violation of TOS.

[mies]

Sweetheart, it warms my heart to know that you care about happiness of my family and safety of me and my husband, as well as our income level. If you want to help solving the problem of our family minimum wage, please send your check to "Mies and her Husband, The best city in the World, street such and such, #X." I am a little surprised by your interested in my sexual life and why it crossed your mind to ask about it. I thought it was impolite to pry on what's happening in the bedrooms of other people.
What is Tahirih justice center? And how did you come across it?

Based on your bullying and /or patronizing conversation style when you talk to women, I start suspecting that my question hits a little too close to home for you.

[Boethius]

so i finally got you to admit 'some posters' is me.

well i fixed your gutless problem.

now let's work on your reading comprehension problem, and of course your problem with lying -- or altering the facts of aloe's story to back up your agenda.

No, I was referring to several posters.  If I had meant you in particular, I would've so posted.


So I remembered the particulars of Aloe's story incorrectly.  Mea culpa.  That does not change the fact that she never threw a glass at her husband before he choked her, and that, apparently, you and at least one other poster find that excusable.

[TheTraveler]

No, I was referring to several posters.  If I had meant you in particular, I would've so posted.


So I remembered the particulars of Aloe's story incorrectly.  Mea culpa.  That does not change the fact that she never threw a glass at her husband before he choked her, and that, apparently, you and at least one other poster find that excusable.

pointing out the fact that both aloe and her husband exhibit violent tendencies at home does not imply that his actions are excusable.

also, your fake reference to a thrown glass is yet another example of playing loose with the facts.  she picked up a glass in a threatening manner.  no one knew whether the glass would be struck across his head, face, or thrown.

in 11.5 years of marriage, neither my dhrw nor i have ever had any type of violent argument.  i've never raised a hand against any woman.

bu i still know that a glass can do serious harm.  it's unclear if you condone aloe's act of violence.  i hope not.

[Boethius]

There was no violence on Aloe's part.  For you to suggest there is, frankly, is ludicrous.

[Aloe]

So I've read a few articles about domestic violence. Turns out hubby definitely exhibits several traits described in them.


And to answer someone upthread, no he didn't see me leave. I waited until he was asleep and snuck out as quiet as i could because i feared for my safety.


Thanks for bringing up the other argument, i forgot all about it; But now rereading it, it's horrifying, i'm all shaking, not sure why, stress of reliving it i guess. Maybe i should go reread my other posts as well. thank god i made this 'chronicle'. Turns out it's easy to forget.


But anyway, i came here to tell that it's day 4 since i returned and i already regret that i did. I just dont feel happy here. All these things have worn me down, i don't think there are any feelings left

[LiveFromUkraine]

And to answer someone upthread, no he didn't see me leave. I waited until he was asleep and snuck out as quiet as i could because i feared for my safety.

Why did you fear for your safety? 

[LiveFromUkraine]

My statement is in general and isn't about Aloe but it seems there is a double standard here.


If a guy had come here and said he was mad enough to throw a glass, he would have been told he had control issues, anger issues and all types of issues he needed to fix. 

[Misha]

I waited until he was asleep and snuck out as quiet as i could because i feared for my safety.

That is not a good sign I am really sorry to hear that you are going through this...

[Aloe]

When i asked my hubby who's gonna guarantee he's not gonna kill me if i come talk to him, his reaction was: "what have you done that would justify killing you?". Ahem, how about, NOTHING can justify killing anyone? Lol. Unhappy phrasing, or can killing be justified in his mind?

[Boethius]

It seems to me you are reading too much into that response.  Part of it may be that you don't feel safe, but it sounds as if your husband approaches the world methodically, perhaps logically? and you, at this point are reacting on emotion.  So, you are speaking different languages, and your communication may not be at an optimum level for resolving things.

[Aloe]

Why did you fear for your safety?

He hasn't beaten me if that's what you are asking, but i did not like how he handled that door. I felt he barely restrained himself from hitting me with the door when i stood in the doorway. I felt physically threatened the entire time. I don't like feeling physically threatened.

[LiveFromUkraine]

When i asked my hubby who's gonna guarantee he's not gonna kill me if i come talk to him, his reaction was: "what have you done that would justify killing you?". Ahem, how about, NOTHING can justify killing anyone? Lol. Unhappy phrasing, or can killing be justified in his mind?

He hasn't beaten me if that's what you are asking, but i did not like how he handled that door. I felt he barely restrained himself from hitting me with the door when i stood in the doorway. I felt physically threatened the entire time. I don't like feeling physically threatened.

Aloe, if you don't feel safe, then you don't feel safe.  I don't think he justified killing anyone but it is apparent that you don't feel comfortable.  That, imo, is all you need to be concerned about and you should not stay in a situation you don't feel comfortable or feel for your safety.


I have a feeling that the two of you are bringing out the worst in each other.  I honestly think there is a time where you had enough or you don't want to fix it.  It sounds like you are at that point and may want to start thinking about what you can do to leave.


What type of support do you have there?

[Aloe]

I am always careful making remarks/comments/advice to anyone regarding their marriage/relationship woes for the simple reason I am not a qualified/studied/professional counselor. Additionally, the other side of the story isn't available.
 
But.
 
Which, IIRC, would make this the second time you mentioned it in your board posting.

That's 2 too many times, IMHO.

No, i've never threatened to leave before. I was always careful to handle his feelings with care, because i know how much damage it can do (our first year when he said vacuum or divorce and etc, that was incredibly hurtful). It's this week that i told him for the first time that i'll leave him if he ever touches me in anger again.

[Aloe]

Despite my saying that, and despite my being in hotel for 4 days with phone turned off and all communication severed, he still does NOT believe i could ever leave him. I dunno, am i so misleading. I AM quite affectionate, because i like him a lot, so it's easy to be affectionate, but no matter what i do, it just does.not.occure.to.him. that he might lose me. He spent the 4 days alone perfecting the story he will tell me when i come back. Never occurred to him i might not.

[BillyB]

Even if the man thinks that the woman wants to throw the glass at him (and why would he think that?

When people get upset and emotional, anything can happen. Look at this thread for example. Because of a disagreement, people call me names, Elephant Man of international relationships, and you imply I could be a wife beater. For the emotional people here, I'd hate to think what happens when your spouse disagrees and you get your hands on them. Hope you keep the screaming down enough so the neighbors don't hear.

Traveler, do you have a habit of showing middle finger to your wife and yell at her? Billy, do you have same habits?

You seen my wife's photos. She looks happier than everybody else's wives here. She enjoys looking at my middle finger and getting a daily beating unlike the other wives.


No matter how much one would like to think I'm a wife beater, I would never put myself in a situation with so much drama.

I would understand if you were talking about the attacker who wants to kill you, maybe the armed robber on the street, then the terms "neutralize", "act of violence" etc. may be justified. For God's sake, you are talking about the woman, and wife!!!

Why would a wife want to hurt her husband? Why would a man want to hurt his wife? It just happens in the heat of the moment.


In that same thread Aloe realized in arguments her husband would go silent and ignores her. She would tell him not to ignore her. Why when her husband tries to end an argument with silence and she continues to nag and force him to listen to her? Why does she continue to push his buttons until he loses it?


As I said earlier, if she gets a new husband, she'll have the same problems. You guys aren't helping because you can't constructively criticize her behavior in their disputes and you take a one sided story as if it's the truth. Aloe's husband put his hand around Aloe's neck to take the glass from her hand. He did not put his hand around her neck to cause physical harm. Big difference.

So I've read a few articles about domestic violence. Turns out hubby definitely exhibits several traits described in them.


And to answer someone upthread, no he didn't see me leave. I waited until he was asleep and snuck out as quiet as i could because i feared for my safety.


Thanks for bringing up the other argument, i forgot all about it; But now rereading it, it's horrifying, i'm all shaking, not sure why, stress of reliving it i guess. Maybe i should go reread my other posts as well. thank god i made this 'chronicle'. Turns out it's easy to forget.


But anyway, i came here to tell that it's day 4 since i returned and i already regret that i did. I just dont feel happy here. All these things have worn me down, i don't think there are any feelings left

Aloe, what did your mom see in your husband for her to claim you won't find a better husband?


Because you snuck out of the house, when you came back, did he make you pay for it?


Keep in mind, don't let everything you read about domestic violence make you paranoid of men. I can find you sites that say just the fear of violence is domestic violence. Now you got these thoughts of him killing you in his head. Your husband is immature and reacts in immature ways. He's not a wife beater like some of the horror stories you've read.


What do you want? If you want out of this marriage, you will find evidence your husband is a wife beater. If you want to make your marriage work, you will find him an immature man that can and will grow out of it just like everybody else at this forum has done. I sense you are looking for everything that is wrong with your husband and want out of the marriage.