Sad day

[LAman]

Boe..I would agree that Aloe doesn't know what she wants. But based on her 'complaints'  here about her hubby, she knows what she doesn't want. She does have her own set of demerits too as us all do. I wonder if she is really 'asking' too much from her hubby, we here cannot answer to that. I just hope she finds happiness where ever that leads her.

[Boethius]

I didn't say anything bad a few weeks back but I KNEW he did that "nice weekend" for her because somebody (psychologist, parents, priest, etc.)  told him to do it. That's all.
 
Let's do a quick review:
 
The picture painted of this "man" of hers over the last few years is: 1. He sits on the couch and plays video games all weekends and nights. 2. Demands through verbal abuse, humiliation and threats that the house be vacuumed and cleaned. 3. Demands cooked meals waiting for him. 4. Chokes and smacks her around. 5. And of course sex is expected after all of this.
 
I have to ask you Boethius... how long would you stick around for this kind of treatment?
 
I have to disagree with you about who is being immature here.
 
IMHO, Aloe has been VERY patient with this assh*le.
 
GOB

But the picture with hubby is up and down.   


I can't say how long I would put up with the treatment, as I am hearing only one side of the story, and it moves from happiness to despair.   I think part of this is a function of age, rather than the state of the marriage.


I am not suggesting Aloe stay but rather, that she determine what is really making her unhappy.  She is looking to move away, thinking "someplace" will be better.  But she is still Aloe in all those places.  Unless she roots down to what is really making her unhappy, leaving her marriage, moving to another country, finding a new man, etc., won't make her any happier.

Boe..I would agree that Aloe doesn't know what she wants. But based on her 'complaints'  here about her hubby, she knows what she doesn't want. She does have her own set of demerits too as us all do. I wonder if she is really 'asking' too much from her hubby, we here cannot answer to that. I just hope she finds happiness where ever that leads her.

Yes, I hope so as well.  That's why I think she should talk to someone else, to know that this is a critical step in path to happiness.

[Muzh]

Oh boy. 

This was a marriage that was not meant to be. Both of them made a mistake. Period.

I wish she would, for once, take life seriously and sit down with hubby and talk past the video games.

I'm pretty sure he will agree it was a mistake and also agree both to better depart as friends rather than dragging it out and become bitter enemies.

Good luck to both of youse.

[GoodOlBoy]

I am not suggesting Aloe stay but rather, that she determine what is really making her unhappy.  She is looking to move away, thinking "someplace" will be better.  But she is still Aloe in all those places.  Unless she roots down to what is really making her unhappy, leaving her marriage, moving to another country, finding a new man, etc., won't make her any happier.

I am probably ahead of myself here, but I figured that after the sessions with her psychologist, she has already figured some of this out?
 
GOB

[LiveFromUkraine]

Moving to another country and starting over can be a very exciting time.


Running away from boring will only help in the short term. 


Once the excitement wears off, you may find that boredom again unless you look inwards to find out what you are truly missing.  Happiness is a state of mind, not a matter of location.


Same goes with wanting to be entertained.  You shouldn't need to rely on others to be happy or entertained.


Maybe this is what Aloe needs to find out for herself by experiencing a different country, a different man, a different life. 


Either way, I only wish Aloe the best. 

[Shadow]

Aloe, Brussels Air is flying to Moscow daily. Your parents would surely be able to give you room until you know what you want.

[Boethius]

I am probably ahead of myself here, but I figured that after the sessions with her psychologist, she has already figured some of this out?
 
GOB

That could very well be.  But just 3 weeks ago, Aloe was happy with her hubby.  So, this is why I question this. 


ETA, yes Shadow, that may be a good idea, except that Aloe's mother is not sympathetic to her plight.

[Shadow]

That could very well be.  But just 3 weeks ago, Aloe was happy with her hubby.  So, this is why I question this. 


ETA, yes Shadow, that may be a good idea, except that Aloe's mother is not sympathetic to her plight.

Being able to talk things through in person is much better as conversation by phone or Skype.
And contraty to now, she will be on her home ground instead of having to fear being alone.

[LAman]

That could very well be.  But just 3 weeks ago, Aloe was happy with her hubby.  So, this is why I question this. 

Yes but that was a birthday weekend where they both were doing something Aloe wanted to do. Afterwards it seems like things went back to normal......or is that abnormal?
We always hear here when something happens to Aloe whether it be positive or negative. I just don't remember hearing much in the 'positive' column.

[Boethius]

No, I think Aloe comes here as a "sounding board", so we typically read more negative than positive.  I don't discount that Aloe and her husband are not suited to each other, but I think she needs to really look at what is making her unhappy.    Has she told him she is unhappy?  Is it something he can compromise on, or is this the core of his personality?  What does she do that makes him unhappy?  Is the video game playing an escape from dealing with what bothers him about the relationship?  Perhaps they are not suited to one another, I don't know.  But there's enough uncertainty here that I think she needs to explore this further.
 
 
 
 

[JayH]

No, I think Aloe comes here as a "sounding board", so we typically read more negative than positive.  I don't discount that Aloe and her husband are not suited to each other, but I think she needs to really look at what is making her unhappy.    Has she told him she is unhappy?  Is it something he can compromise on, or is this the core of his personality?  What does she do that makes him unhappy?  Is the video game playing an escape from dealing with what bothers him about the relationship?  Perhaps they are not suited to one another, I don't know.  But there's enough uncertainty here that I think she needs to explore this further.

I agree with you on this topic-- you make good common sense in your comments --that is in sharp contrast with many posts.

[Oops]

How old are these kids - Aloe and her "hubby"?

Never mind, I've already found the answer - Aloe is 25.   But she sounds much younger, to be honest...

[mies]

Aloe, Brussels Air is flying to Moscow daily. Your parents would surely be able to give you room until you know what you want.

I  think going home may be not the best idea for Aloe. Perhaps her parents are partly responsible for her unhappiness and as we already know, her mom doesn't have a habit of boosting Aloe's ego, nor taking sides with her instead of defending her son-in-law.

[mies]

How old are these kids - Aloe and her "hubby"?

Never mind, I've already found the answer - Aloe is 25.   But she sounds much younger, to be honest...

Her husband is few years older than her, 27-30. Hardly a "kid", imho. If a guy is "immature" at 30, what are the chances he will "grow up" by 35? or 40?

[Shadow]

I  think going home may be not the best idea for Aloe. Perhaps her parents are partly responsible for her unhappiness and as we already know, her mom doesn't have a habit of boosting Aloe's ego, nor taking sides with her instead of defending her son-in-law.

Aloe may need support, but she does not need cheerleaders.

[BillyB]

 
 

If a guy is "immature" at 30, what are the chances he will "grow up" by 35? or 40?

 
I've met a few RW in their early to mid 20's that said they will never date a man under 30. I guess they determined 30 is around the age a boy turns into a man.
 
 
I'm curious to what Aloe's counselor has said pertaining to her marriage and what are the recommendations. I hope Aloe comes forward with that information since it's something we can work with to help her. It's safe to say Aloe's marriage is less than ideal but the important thing is Aloe and her husband should improve their marriage after every problem instead of letting it waste away. Aloe's at the point of running away at signs of trouble but does she have valid reasons, over emotional, or have a little of both?
 
 
 

Aloe may need support, but she does not need cheerleaders.

 
Us anonymous posters, with a lack of infomation based off a one sided story, need to be careful we don't influence, encourage or enable the destruction of Aloe's marriage.

[Shadow]

Us anonymous posters, with a lack of infomation based off a one sided story, need to be careful we don't influence, encourage or enable the destruction of Aloe's marriage.

I fully agree with you, which is why she should limit herself to people she actually knows and who will always have her best interest at heart even if they do not agree with her.

[mies]

I've met a few RW in their early to mid 20's that said they will never date a man under 30. I guess they determined 30 is around the age a boy turns into a man.

Although I cannot claim that this is the only truth, I think you and these RWs (you've been talking to) misunderstood each other, mainly in the  definition of the "grown up man."
I think the RWs were first and foremost talking about financial independence and security of the man "30+"
Whereas you took it as they were discussing man's emotional and psychological maturity. You didn't talk to any random RW, you only talked to those who were in some way involved or related to MOB business. Which means, among other things, that the girl is looking for a solid provider. Definition of "immature man" in Russia/Ukraine is somewhat different than you have been using to describe Aloe's husband.  An immature man in Russia/Ukraine isn't the man who chokes his wife and calls her names. The immature man in R/U reality is the man who doesn't earn much and still lives with his parents, or depends to some extent on his parents financially. Hence, when RW says "I want a mature man" she usually means that she wants a man who can afford at least renting apartment separately from his parents, or preferably - own one. You can see the same definition of "maturity" when you look at the forums of RWs seeking husbands abroad. Whenever they meet someone who lives with his parents they say "he isn't mature enough, and not a serious candidate." Domestic abuse in no way is involved in this definition, because by default domestic abuse is a big "NO" for RWs, and not a sign of either maturity or immaturity, it's the feature that never changes in a person no matter how old this person is.
   
So whenever you talk to RW about male maturity, this is how you should hear her: "I do not consider men younger than 30 seriously, because they are not sufficiently mature good providers."

[mies]

I fully agree with you, which is why she should limit herself to people she actually knows and who will always have her best interest at heart even if they do not agree with her.

Shadow, although I partly agree with you opinions in this topic, I do not think that "people whom Aloe actually knows" is equal to "people who will always have her best interest."

To give you an example, my mother, a person who supposedly knows me better than anyone else, and who always keeps my best interest, went crazy when I announced engagement with my husband (then boyfriend). She was calling me several times a day (we lived in different cities with her), was making drama scenes and DEMANDING that I should cancel the engagement and the wedding plans, or else. She  never actually specified "what else" but always made it sound super serious, vaguely hinting she would disown me. The first 3-4 years of my marriage she was regularly requesting me to divorce, then promising her and dad's full support if I decide to divorce, and telling all sort of nasty things. To this day, every now and then she makes the "guerilla strikes" on my marriage. And it's not the point whether my marriage is perfect or imperfect. My view on this is no matter what decisions about my life I make, these should be my decisions, and not following my mom's advice.
Her main argument is "since you married this man, you stopped listening to me and only listen to him." Her only concern is not about the personality of my husband, her concern is that she had ultimate power over me, and now she no longer has this power. Whether she acts in my best interest or not - I'm not quite sure. In fact, I think that she doesn't, because she wants to exercise control over me, "continue living through her children" taken literally.

Now, please tell me, will it be a good idea for me to turn to my parents/my mom if I have some troubles in my marriage? Do you think they will be able to offer me true support (or instead they will try to get me back into their controlling hands), and give me unbiased advice?
You operate under assumption that parents are the same across the globe. But that's not necessarily true. We do not know what are potential motives of Aloe's mother to say that Aloe is worthless and will not find anyone better than her current abusive husband. This doesn't mean that Aloe should divorce, but to me this does mean that Aloe should be taking any advice that comes from her mom with a grain of salt.

[BillyB]

 
 

I think the RWs were first and foremost talking about financial independence and security of the man "30+"
Whereas you took it as they were discussing man's emotional and psychological maturity. You didn't talk to any random RW, you only talked to those who were in some way involved or related to MOB business. Which means, among other things, that the girl is looking for a solid provider.
 

 
No, they were pretty clear with me they were turned off by men who lacked maturity. They don't like boys who can't make decisions for themselves, were silly and full of drama.
 
 

domestic abuse is a big "NO" for RWs,

 
Is DV a "yes" for women in any culture? Young men tend to react to a bad situation poorly compared to older, mature men. Some of those men lose their temper, go into a rage, and do things they normally don't do but they can grow out of it with age. Although Aloe's husband pushed her and had his hand around her neck, he is not a wife beater that deserves to sit in jail.
 
 
 
 

[mies]

he is not a wife beater that deserves to sit in jail.

does Aloe deserve to be pushed around? Please, do not twist my words. I wrote "domestic abuse" and this is what I meant. Whether the actions can be qualified as DV may be discussed, but there is no doubt that domestic/spousal abuse is taking place in this relationship.

No, they were pretty clear with me they were turned off by men who lacked maturity. They don't like boys who can't make decisions for themselves, were silly and full of drama.

silly and full of drama isn't exactly the same as pushing and chocking. In fact, those are quite different things. As for "make decisions for themselves" - this is exactly about financial independence and ability to make decisions without involving parents into the process. The fact that they were pretty clear with you doesn't mean you understood what exactly they were talking about. You need to understand the culture in order to understand what these RW are talking about. Trust me, I know.

[BillyB]

does Aloe deserve to be pushed around? Please, do not twist my words. I wrote "domestic abuse" and this is what I meant.
 

 
If domestic abuse is the term to be used, then both parties are guilty of that. I'm sure Aloe has threatened to leave her husband when she's not happy. Using the destruction of ones own marriage as leverage to get what one wants is abuse.
 
 
 

As for "make decisions for themselves" - this is exactly about financial independence and ability to make decisions without involving parents into the process.

 
They were clear with me they don't want a "yes" man who agrees to everything a woman says. It has nothing to do with financial independence and freedom from parents. When those women ask a man what he wants to do or eat and the man replies everytime "Whatever you want", it turns women off that the man can't think for himself.
 
 

The fact that they were pretty clear with you doesn't mean you understood what exactly they were talking about. You need to understand the culture in order to understand what these RW are talking about. Trust me, I know.

 
If I don't understand women? How did I get a date? How do I get repeat dates? How did I get married? If a woman tells me she doesn't like young men because they lack of maturity which adds to the relationship silliness, drama, and always letting the woman make the decisions, it's best I believe those ladies than to tell them they're wrong because I rather trust a woman on the internet. Do you like when men behave like children or give you drama? Your answer is the same as my past dates and to them, which is clear to me, all relates to the level of maturity of a man. If you still insist maturity is related to financial security, what do you consider immature?  An unemployed man?

[Oops]

Her husband is few years older than her, 27-30. Hardly a "kid", imho. If a guy is "immature" at 30, what are the chances he will "grow up" by 35? or 40?

I'd say no chance at all.   And even if there is - his choice of music may be attributed to his age, but the choice of handling family disputes can not.   

[mies]

If domestic abuse is the term to be used, then both parties are guilty of that. I'm sure Aloe has threatened to leave her husband when she's not happy. Using the destruction of ones own marriage as leverage to get what one wants is abuse.

Wow! Wow! Hold on. How can you be sure of that? Has she ever mentioned it? I do remember her husband has threatened to leave her (or rather kick her out of Belgium, before she got her citizenship). Billy, are you a dreamer?
Also, even if Aloe ever said that do her husband, how do you know she was pushing her husband's buttons vs.  really meant that.

 

They were clear with me they don't want a "yes" man who agrees to everything a woman says. It has nothing to do with financial independence and freedom from parents. When those women ask a man what he wants to do or eat and the man replies everytime "Whatever you want", it turns women off that the man can't think for himself.

Billy, this will be a joke of the day for me. Please, do show me a woman who wants a "NO" man who will disagree with her and won't give her what she wants. 
 
 

If I don't understand women? How did I get a date? How do I get repeat dates? How did I get married? If a woman tells me she doesn't like young men because they lack of maturity which adds to the relationship silliness, drama, and always letting the woman make the decisions, it's best I believe those ladies than to tell them they're wrong because I rather trust a woman on the internet.

Well, your "understanding" of women didn't save you from divorce, for some reason. You were married twice before your current marriage, and you weren't the one who applied for divorce. Or were you? Your success rate when it come to staying married, to date is about 33%. And before you married A it was 0.
"I rather trust a woman on the internet."  - is the second joke of the day I think your excellent sense of humor is why you get repeated dates and get married.

Do you like when men behave like children or give you drama? Your answer is the same as my past dates and to them, which is clear to me, all relates to the level of maturity of a man. If you still insist maturity is related to financial security, what do you consider immature?  An unemployed man?

An unemployed (or employed but not financially secure/independent) man who believes his wife should take care of him the same way as his mom took care of him - is behaving as a child, and hence is called "immature" and "unreasonable". When he starts using childish manipulations to prove his point - he is referred to as  giving drama to a woman.  This is the point i've been making to you all along.

The man is immature when he tells his wife "my mom used to do my laundry and cook for me, and give me pocket money and I didn't need to pay her rent, and when I lived with my mom I never did anything around the house and the house was always meticulously clean. You are not  a good wife because you are a worse cook and cleaner than my mom was."
When the man uses verbal insults/abuse and physical pushing & chocking (physical abuse) - he isn't immature. He is abusive.


 

[GQBlues]

Give it up mies.... 

The day you can command FSUWs to line-up breaking over your door down to fight over your attention so they can cook you soup, including a token Mexican gal, will be the day you'd know more what FSUWs want than 'Yohan'. Being a FSUW yourself and having lived and grown-up in FSU is no match for him. It isn't even close. Heck, he even knows Aloe and her marriage better than Aloe herself.

I'd suggest letting this sleeping dog lie...