Not Russian Custom

[catzenmouse]

Ask Elena about birthday spankings :crackthewhip:

You mean it was only supposed to be spankings?!? Wonder what all those other strange devices were....

 Still recovering from my birthday beatings!

Ken

[Elen]

Some years ago I was tired to be thakful- greatful-happy- and etc about gifts wich didn't suit my ideas about them So till now I just have a looong list with things I would want to get like a gift - May be not too romantic but it makesl ife some easy and prevents troubles for all of us. Not anybody has a talent to guess what woman wants in this partucular moment and male's ideas about gifts could be very "odd"

(Ps Birthday's spanking is not included in my list, DaKnak )

[Elen]

SoC,

 If you don't mind, would you tell us what happened with the camera? And, how did she handle your birthday?

Ken

I bet she would present him a dimond ring on her finger  and he would be supposed to show how happy he is to see it - he should , should not he?

[Turboguy]

Elen,  Here in America we are sort of brought up to be gracious about gifts.  Someone gives us a dozen golf balls we are tought to say, wow, I am so exicted.  I have been wanting golf balls in the worst way, even if we don't golf and don't plan to ever golf.   I can be a little hard to buy for and probably half the stuff I get are things I don't want.  My son gives me a bottle of Canadian Club every year for Christmas and I have every single one sitting in a closet somewhere. 

My dad never did live down the year he gave my mother a snow shovel for Christmas.  That one was not accepted too graciously.

[Elen]

And what is your point?

 We Russians were raised with idea that gift ddidn't matter but an "attention" as well But if you want to be "exited" about gifts you don't like at all all your life or guess in what closet  your own gifts find their place after your got obligated thanks then - good luck for you. I though the same way some time ago But now I prefer to find another way which like I said makes life "easy" for both sides.


Ps I'm about my family Gifts for/from freinds and "strangers"  go according to a slogan - "дареному коню в зубы не смотрят" ( translated something like - you should not look into teeth of gifted horse)

[Maxx]

So how should an AM handle a RW's abuse? 

SOC drops hints about what may have went on:

Hint #1 She called him at work afterwards to tell him (reassure him?) of her love.

Hint #2 The camera is missing

Perhaps there are others. I suspect a big rowe (major argument) with the camera being tossed or hocked at the pawn shop. Perhaps it's just hidden for the purpose of keeping SOC unsettled. Perhaps it was never missing that that part of the the story was just a misunderstanding on SOC's part.

While everyone of the "marrieds" are weighing in on what is considered an appropiate gift perhaps you can use you experience and weigh in on what is an appropiate course of conduct on

 1) RW accepting gifts that are not to their liking or expectation?

 2) An AM response if such a gift is thrown away, destroyed or hidden? Used to shame a him to get another gift or rather an additional gift?

So what is a man to do? Teach her Western manners of graciousness (although from Hellen's response they are Eastern as well) by calmly telling her like my mother did for me when I was about 7 years old? Go silent and show his disaproval? That is to not to react to her trying to get a rise out of him?

In other words how do you deal with an "in your face" arguing, demanding, destroying/hidding/selling off property (if this last part is true) RW?

BTW it is at these tense times that a man is at his biggest risk of having 911 called on him. Even RW who love and have affection for their husbands do that in a fit of rage. The desent into hell soon follows as the Law does not allow the woman to call off the police or county prosecutor.

That is why I say do almost anything to calm the situation but steer it so that one is not continued to be bullied or so the RW doesn't to feel "the need" to "up the anti" with higher and higher levels of abuse for what ever her reasons*are.

  Maxx

* love reassurance or "bringing out the man" in their man or other. 

[Elen]

:?

Truth tell I understood nothing how an isuue started with not - proper gift ( it WAS not right gift) and with not proper reaction ( reaction was not right as well) ended with something about "call 9-11" :?

[KenC]

Maxx,

First of all, reread your post and look how totally negative it is!

RW are not "abusive" when they are blunt.  I think bluntness is a common (and even an admired) trait in Russia.  They don't sugar coat too much of anything.  I know the term "cultural difference" is over used here, but in this case it is on the mark.

Over the years, Lena and I have blended many of our cultural differences.  It has been a natural process for us.  I don't know if Lena is more adaptable than most RW or if my Russian background comes into play, or a little of both.  My family has always been rather blunt and straight forward, for example.  Lena has learned to be much more diplomatic over the time she has lived in America.  She isn't phoney, which is my preference too, but she is a lot less rude in her choice of words.  I have explained to her, time and time again, that it is not necessary to verbally hit someone over the head in order to get your point across.  There were no big fights or 911 calls necessary, just two people learning from each other and growing together.  That is what people do when they are in love.

And that is the difference between what you and many others have experienced in their failed marriages and those of us that have experienced some success.  The binding emotion for mutual respect and thoughtfulness is born from the love that the couple has together.

KenC

[Maxx]

Love has got almost nothing to do with it. Maturity and relationship skills do. Love is an important foundation in a marriage and a lubricant during stressful times but not a cure all if the marriage isn't into some sort of alignment or harmony.

Yes, destroying or throwing out gifts to hurt the gift giver (if this happened) IS abuse. If an American man did this to his Russian wife how would you respond to her? Would you council her to give her husband a better gift next time?

 

Maxx

[KenC]

Yes, destroying or throwing out gifts to hurt the gift giver (if this happened) IS abuse. If an American man did this to his Russian wife how would you respond to her? Would you council her to give her husband a better gift next time?

 

Maxx

That the camera wasn't on the shelf doesn't mean that it was destroyed or thrown out.  But in either case it isn't abuse, just childish behavior.  Because I place a gift in my office and never use it, (that my wife bought for me), am I abusing her?  Get real, Maxx!  You're becoming the "chicken little" of this forum.  The sky isn't falling and everything is not abuse.

KenC

[Wild Orchid*]

Who said the gift was destroyed or thrown out? It could be anywhere! In his step-son room for example. Boy might take it there with his mother's permission to look at it properly and forgot to put it back. Why suspect the worst case scenario before anything else?

[Daknack]

[user=807]Wild Orchid*[/user] wrote:

Who said the gift was destroyed or thrown out? It could be anywhere! In his step-son room for example. Boy might take it there with his mother's permission to look at it properly and forgot to put it back. Why suspect the worst case scenario before anything else?

I was thinking the exact same thing.  While listening to my mother and father argue over easter dinner that neither can find where the other "puts things away"

[PeeWee]

[user=807]Wild Orchid*[/user] wrote:

Who said the gift was destroyed or thrown out? It could be anywhere! In his step-son room for example. Boy might take it there with his mother's permission to look at it properly and forgot to put it back. Why suspect the worst case scenario before anything else?

I do not believe that I will ever comprehend this gift giving. Somethings are considered gifts and some things are not considered gifts. A woman asks if she can borrow money. You give the money but do you ever think for  a minute that she will repay you? That was a gift, not a loan and you come off as "cheap" if you balk at coughing up the cash to begin with.

I gave a RW a copy of one of my novels, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway she wanted to read it but, apparently, that was not a gift. The other day I was telling Lena that I was going to send an airplane to somewhere and she asked if I could send her an airplane. Of course, she wanted one. I asked her what her favorite airplane was. Concorde as it turns out. Well I just happened to have a little model of the Concorde that I got from Air France. So I send it. That is a gift and she is thrilled to receive it. I never would have thought it in a million years. My mind says jewelry, flowers, fur coat, anything but that. My point is if you are like me, that would be that I am clueless, then you never will figure out this gift giving thing as it applies to RW.

Peewee "don't call me Herman" Biggs

[Jet]

 2) An AM response if such a gift is thrown away, destroyed or hidden? Used to shame a him to get another gift or rather an additional gift?

My gut instinct on this one is not to "up the ante`" by berating behavior thats now weeks old, however I would let it guide my future purchases (IE - If you can't accept an expensive gift graciously, I won't put you in the position to have to ). There is no chance in hell I'd be shamed into getting another and/or additional gift at this point.

[PeeWee]

 2) An AM response if such a gift is thrown away, destroyed or hidden? Used to shame a him to get another gift or rather an additional gift?

My gut instinct on this one is not to "up the ante`" by berating behavior thats now weeks old, however I would let it guide my future purchases (IE - If you can't accept an expensive gift graciously, I won't put you in the position to have to ). There is no chance in hell I'd be shamed into getting another and/or additional gift at this point.
[/quote]
I have a friend, a Norweign lad, who has been married to an AW for close to 20 years. Several years ago he was telling me that his wife's birthday was coming soon. I asked him if he was going to get her flowers. "No, I don't do that. If I start getting her flowers then she will expect it and more." 

That would be the extreem but there is some method to it as well. I see those ads on TV around Christmas time where the guy gets his wife a car. Big bow on it and everyone is happy. Every year I ask myself, "Other than Bill Gates who would be crazy enough to do that? And what is your plan, you idiot, for next year?" It makes no sense to me.

Peewee

[KenC]

Hmm,

I bought both of my children new cars for their 16th birthdays.  Of course they didn't expect a new car every year.  I wouldn't not buy my wife a car for her birthday or Christmas if buying a car she wanted and the event (birthday or Christmas) fell in close proximity.  I know she is smart enough to understand that it would not be a anual event too.

I don't get it.  Don't you guys think that your wife would understand such things?  I am never afraid to buy something "too good" for my wife for fear of setting a bad president.  Geesh.

KenC

[Taz]

This has been a really facinating thread. If I were SOC there is no way I would exchange her present especially after her ungracious behavior! She seems incredibly spoiled just like the RW of a friend of mine. Each year she ups the ante on what she EXPECTS him to buy for her. Next raise and she will be looking for a new home.

Last thing I would want is a woman who DEMANDS I spoil her. If I choose to do so than it is my choice. If she wants me to spoil her then she needs to EARN it! I bought a woman I loved before (RW) a digital camera and she was absolutely thrilled. She said it would help HER treasure the memories of her life.

I will never let a woman try and manipulate me in this manner. I hope SOC has some balls and will stand his ground otherwise she will continually take any ground he gives up. He needs to stake out his position and be a man. He didn't cheap out on a gift and put a lot of thought into. Next year she could drop hints before if there is something she want specifically.

[Jet]

I don't get it.  Don't you guys think that your wife would understand such things?  I am never afraid to buy something "too good" for my wife for fear of setting a bad president.  Geesh.

KenC

Nor am I, but the point was that I won't REWARD bad behaviour.

[Taz]

Nor am I, but the point was that I won't REWARD bad behaviour.

Nor should you reward bad behavior. Also be careful about setting a precedent or escalating the value of your gift each year. At some point if you ever decrease the value of the gift (for whatever reason) you will have one PO'd woman on your hands. I have been there and done that but NEVER again. It is NOT about the value of the gift you are buying UNLESS you are trying to BUY her love. Put thought, not money, into the gift you buy for her.

[PeeWee]

I dated a RW several years ago who, when I asked her how her mother chose her father, told me that her mother had four men persuing her at the same time. I asked how she finally chose. "She chose the man, my father, who gave her the most gifts."  I saw it later in the RW daughter. We were having lunch one day at Mc Donalds. I asked if her mother, the woman I was dating, had any men friends. To which the daughter responded, "She has one guy but I don't like him."  I asked why she did not like him. "Because he didn't give me any gifts."

I don't think this gift thing is an isolated incidence. I believe that Russians do look up on this in a much different way than us Western men do.

 

Peewee

[rose]

I dated a RW several years ago who, when I asked her how her mother chose her father, told me that her mother had four men persuing her at the same time. I asked how she finally chose. "She chose the man, my father, who gave her the most gifts."  I saw it later in the RW daughter. We were having lunch one day at Mc Donalds. I asked if her mother, the woman I was dating, had any men friends. To which the daughter responded, "She has one guy but I don't like him."  I asked why she did not like him. "Because he didn't give me any gifts."

I don't think this gift thing is an isolated incidence. I believe that Russians do look up on this in a much different way than us Western men do.

Peewee

I have similar problem with my friend, she has the same attitude toward the men. We discussed it many times, once we even stopped talking to each other for a half of a year because of this...
But not everybody in Russia is like this. I'm not. I'd value much more non-material things. So, I don't think that Peewee's statement can be true toward all R/U/B women.
And as to the birthday gift... I would value a simple card if it'll be given to me from all heart, than a car, if it'll be just "take and shut up gift".

[Elen]

Why is to give a gift few times in a year ( in Russia it's 2 official holidays, birthday and some your annivercity) such "spoiling" business??

And talks are not about cost of gift, demanding gifts and etc  but about a gift wich would SHOW that husband thought exactly about wife but not about his own "needs' ( in Clyde's case if he would be honest with himself then may be he admit that he thought about broken old camera and a need to have one new in a family let talk in himself that she too would be glad to a new camera )

Camera as itself is a good gift but only for people who like to use it

And "demanding" thankful for unwanted gift is spoiled thing to do as well:P

Instead of speaking here how RW are all spoiled ( wonder by who? by those awful Russian males??) better think that you marry to almost strangers , you know nothing about your wives and can't even to pick up a gift for them for birthday


 

[KenC]

Nor am I, but the point was that I won't REWARD bad behaviour.

Nor should you reward bad behavior. Also be careful about setting a precedent or escalating the value of your gift each year. At some point if you ever decrease the value of the gift (for whatever reason) you will have one PO'd woman on your hands. I have been there and done that but NEVER again. It is NOT about the value of the gift you are buying UNLESS you are trying to BUY her love. Put thought, not money, into the gift you buy for her.
[/quote]
As long as my wife appreciates whatever it is I do choose to give her, I don't ever fear setting a precedent by the value of the gift I give.  She isn't tracking the values from one birthday to the next.  It is the thought behind the gift that is constant.

KenC

[Turboguy]

I agree with not rewarding bad behavior.  A long time ago back in my married days my next door neighbors wife got mad at him and flushed what would be today about  $ 7,000 wedding rings down the toilet.    What did he do once they got over their fight.  Went out and bought her a replacement.  

The only way I would have even done anything to ever replace it is I would have been more than willing to pop the lid off the septic tank for her if she wanted to go diving to look for it.

[Son of Clyde]

Let me clarify my thoughts. In my parents family, both parents have a camera. In my brother's and sister's families, both spouses and some of the children have their own camera. It is like owning a car or having your own cellphone, it is for you,  but it may be shared by others. Apparently, she is not familiar with the US custom of people having their own things. I personally like the idea of her owning a camera and me owning my own camera and even my stepson having his own camera.

This idea of buying things exclusively for the family is strange because a camera does not necessarily have to be a family item. Maybe in a country where there is not a lot of wealth it would seem more practical.