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Author Topic: Gun ownership and Hunting?  (Read 9654 times)

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Offline Raging Dragon

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Gun ownership and Hunting?
« on: April 17, 2013, 01:28:25 PM »
Hi All!

I have appeared again  from the mists of time, you may remember my earlier thread about my situation a couple pages back...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14920.0

So. I haven't really done anything on the dating front since my last post here. Just hasn't been the time that I thought I'd have to focus on such things. That said, there has been a new development, in that my grandmother died recently. It was a long and painfully slow decline so that by the time she passed away my family was actually relieved than sadded so she wouldn't be tortured by a failing body any longer.

Back story aside, she had a number of boxes in storage. It turns out she had a handgun of my grandfather's that my father had long thought was gone. So, given that we're in Canada, and handguns required a Restricted (level 2) gun license, we had to move fast to keep it in the family.

Now that I've gotten my restricted and non restricted license, I've gotten my hunting license too. I've always wanted to go hunting, and it is an activity I'd like to be able to share with my children. My other hobbies are very solo in nature (weight lifting, writing, computer stuff) and having an outdoors focus in my life I think would be a good thing.

That said, what is the general impression of gun ownership and hunting in the FSU? Do men or women really have much difference in opinion?

I don't plan on getting into military guns, I've got a few different hunting calibers in mind to purchase so I can shoot a variety of birds, small and large game.

Edited to add: Some context in Canadian laws: The laws in Canada are fairly uniform compared to the US,  and overall the ease of purchasing guns and ammunition is harder than the US, but much easier than Europe and Australia.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 01:31:57 PM by Raging Dragon »

Offline alex330

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 01:55:59 PM »
I think it really depends on the individual. There are a number of men in the FSU that do hunt. My wife likes to shoot and we go to the range now and then.

Offline Daveman

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 04:05:01 PM »
I think it really depends on the individual. There are a number of men in the FSU that do hunt. My wife likes to shoot and we go to the range now and then.


Yep.  Mine too. definitely depends on the individual.


*IN* the FSU?  I think Stirlitz (a Ukrainian resident and member here) mentioned owning a Glock.  I have no idea what the regulations are. Perhaps he'll pop in to clarify.




The consensus of the women who post here would appear to be anti-gun.  However, there are many members' wives who enjoy shooting. If it is important to you -- then better to discuss and be clear on the issue up front.
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline Kokopelli

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 06:03:44 PM »
Why not military guns? The history, the beauty, the craftsmanship for the time, the FUN.  :D


What guns did you inherit?

My mother, 71, shoots a Colt Detective 38 special. I've had to hide the Colt Python from her.
She got a S&W 22lr semi-auto for her birthday this year.

My friend in Rostov is a police officer. He has a Makarov with non-lethal (rubber) bullets, if I remember correctly civilians to do not own guns for anything other than hunting.
This may help:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/28-12-2012/123335-americans_guns-0/

Women shooters?
It is in their blood.  ;D


« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 06:22:59 PM by Kokopelli »

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 08:17:39 PM »
Some random observations on guns in Russia; heavy on facts, light on the politics and even lighter on irony:

- The private possession of handguns or any type of automatic weapon is banned.

- There is no link between the right to assemble and right to bear arms as there is in the US Constitution (Amendments 1-4 were crafted to build on each other). The Russian Constitution specifically forbids armed citizens from freedom of assembly. (Article 31).

- Although Russia has some of the most strict gun control laws in the world, the homicide rate is double that of the USA. According to the United Nations, in the USA there are 4.8 homicides per 100,000 people annually as compared to the Russian rate of 10.2 per 100,000 people.

- The easiest way to own a gun in Russia is to buy one on the street. It is illegal to purchase this way but there are lots of guns in Russia. Those mafia guys in the black suburbans aren't carrying water pistols.


Normal question:
Q: If I didn't wish to break the law by purchasing a handgun or semi/automatic firearm in Russia, what would be the procedure?

A: You are allowed to purchase a shotgun or air-rifle for hunting and recreation. The government classifies these as "shoulder" guns. You must register that shotgun purchase and have a 5-year record of no arrests or public disturbances with the aforementioned weapons.

After 5 years, you may then begin the mental health and license process to own a real rifle. Handguns are banned at all times.


Here are the next steps:
- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must have medial documents to certify good mental health, including a full work-up from a mental health institution.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must have a metal gun case that is permanently attached to a wall of your home, locked, and inaccessible to children or guests.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must be willing to undergo periodic surprise police inspections who will verify that the weapon is in the locked case and inaccessible to children or guests.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must take mental health documents and proof of gun safe purchase to the police and apply for a permit, wait for the surprise home inspection to verify the existence and reliability of the gun safe, and then pay any bribes fees for processing. The entire process takes from 60-90 days, or more.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must have no criminal record.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must obtain medical certification that you are not addicted to alcohol or drugs. Good luck with that one.

- To legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must  undergo special firearms safety training.

- Finally, to legally obtain and hold a hunting rifle in Russia you must join and maintain a membership with a licensed hunting club, firing range club, or other sort of licensed gun club.

- If arrested for any reason, the hunting license is repealed.

- Your rifle/hunting license is good for 5 years and must be renewed.

- Foreign residents may not obtain or possess firearms of any kind. Those mafia guys in black suburbans who are from other regions outside Russia are undoubtedly packing water pistols, not real firearms.

- It bears repeating that the quickest and easiest way to obtain a firearm is to purchase one on the street. Oops, that would be illegal.


Trivia question:
Q: When did the Soviet government abolish personal gun ownership?

A: In 1929 after Stalin came to power.



Another trivia question:
Q: What were the gun laws under the Tsars?

A: You shot at rabbits, deer, your neighbor, and anybody you didn't like. You just didn't shoot at the Tsar.



Russia Today television survey:
- Between 40-60 million Russian citizens would purchase a handgun if given the right, according to the study (June 2012). By contrast in 1991 the Levada centre reported that only 14% of the population supported gun rights. My my, times have changed.


Legislation:
- Senator Aleksandr Torshin of the Federation Council drafted a bill last year (2012) that would allow some citizens who pass mental health checks to own handguns. Some would be sanctioned to use weapons to protect their homes only, while others would be authorized to take handguns in their cars. The most privileged group would be permitted to carry pistols anywhere. This third category could include postmen, ambulance staff and social workers. (What, no mafia?!)

Prime Minister Medvedev made sure the bill went nowhere.


Ammo question:
Q: Where can I buy ammo?

A; Wherever licensed weapons are sold. Your license will list the types of ammo a dealer can sell to you. As all ammo transactions are logged and tracked, you can only purchase for the caliber of weapon listed on your license.



DIY question:
Q: If I purchased the shotgun and obtained that first 5 year license, can I do my own reloading?

A: You may, provided the powder is purchased at a licensed ammo dealer and your purchase is logged.



Dang, yet another trivia question:
Q: Wait a second, you said earlier that Article 31 forbids armed citizens from assembling together. But joining a gun club means that you're assembling with other gun owners, right?

A: Okay, duffus. This is Russia. If you want logic, go live under the Queen who really doesn't rule anybody. Now shut up and pay this year's club dues!



Supplies:
Q: You say that handguns are illegal but my gal and I walked into a camping store and saw empty holsters and ammo belts for sale in glass cases, but no handguns. What's up?

A: Those were really extra large size cell phone holders that you mistook for holsters. Handguns are illegal in Russia. Those weren't real ammo belts, either. Some Russians like to bend their SIM cards and other digital memory cards into circular shapes and those looped belt circular SIM card holders may look like ammo belts, but their sole purpose is to make it easy for Mom to keep the youngsters organized.


Security guard question:
Q: I know a Russian security guard who carries a handgun. Is that legal?

A: Yes. Security guards must pass mental health checks and firearm safety courses to be licensed to RENT guns from the police for the exact term they are employed as a security guard and must surrender weapons when no longer employed in that profession.


Serious trivia question:
Q: My gal and I stepped inside a store that sold real guns. Sure there were air-rifles and paint guns but also real rifles. What gives?

A: Nothing gives. Without a license (see the laundry list above), you ain't buyin' nothing. Shop till you drop but you're leaving empty handed without a license (again, see the laundry list above).



Pre-stupid question:
Q: I'd like to hunt in Russia with family and friends. Can I bring my own gun or ammo?

A: If you are a Hollywood weirdo who donated some big bucks to a certain Russian politician's campaign, yes. If however you fall into a lesser category you might be interested in knowing that Russia does have a program just for you! It comes with lots of hanging out with other guys, a fairly dramatic weight loss program at no extra charge, frequent romantic engagements, free tattoos, and complimentary head lice. After 2-5 years of draining your family's resources for legal fees you get to return home.



Stupid question:
Q: Is there a way to get around all those rules?

A: (sigh) Of course, ever heard of bribes in Russia? I imagine that just about anyone can buy one on the street. There are lots of ex-military guys with connections and with the universal draft, millions of RM had/have access. If you take your chances, make sure you are never caught.



Photo below: Prime Minister Medvedev, like President Putin, belongs to a registered gun club and enjoys shooting.


Medvedev gun sights height=393

Russia is an exporter of firearms but most of the items made in Russian factories are not available to citizens.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 10:17:50 PM by mendeleyev »
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Offline Belvis

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 12:21:17 AM »
Q: Is there a way to get around all those rules?

A: (sigh) Of course, ever heard of bribes in Russia? I imagine that just about anyone can buy one on the street. There are lots of ex-military guys with connections and with the universal draft, millions of RM had/have access. If you take your chances, make sure you are never caught.
I can't agree with the assumption that anyone can buy a gun on the street. Nobody from my social circle posseses guns except hunting rifles. Even in hot spots at Caucasia one has to be close enough to mafia, cops or extremist underground to get the access to guns. Anybody else will be a victim of local cops who used to make the controlled sale of stuff to "suckers". Usually ordinary guys get legally a gas pistols and make over it for use of live cartridges, usually for criminal intentions.

I'm glad that  private possession of handguns  is banned in Russia. I have no illusions I'll be safer with a gun, just opposite in reality. Though... may be I can develop a skill of Clint Eastwood or Bruce Willis  to shoot first  :)

Offline Shadow

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 07:53:38 AM »


It gives the essence of hunting in Russia. If you miss Bigfoot you did not see all the movie.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline Muzh

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 08:00:33 AM »
Dang!

From Russian to French and Ukrainian over Russian with English subtitles.

Egad!
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Lily

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 08:44:32 AM »
Women are women everywhere, and I would not say that anything that is related to weapons is in our blood. Even given the fact that we had a mandatory military training class in the Soviet high school, where we had to disassemble and assemble a Kalashnikov, I cannot tell that we like this thing.
 
My Dad was a passonate hunter and kept guns at home, but I cannot recall what my Mom ever said about it. I think that we were pretty much indifferent about it. Some women may feel that any gun presents a danger to their lives, and would be cautious even to touch it. At the same time, I agree that it would be up to an individual.
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline Raging Dragon

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 01:00:13 PM »
 I inherited a .38 (not the special) ivory handled antique from 1913, a S&W. I pretty much figured it would depend on the woman no matter what the culture, but figured I'd ask. Thanks for all the great answers everyone! :)

Offline SneakersAndHighHeels

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 02:09:39 PM »
Hunting and fishing are typically man's hubbies in Russia. If you find a girl, that likes outdoors a lot, she might join you though (unless she is a "sleeping beauty" kind). I liked watching "looney toons" growing up :) . Piph-puph!

Most of my Russian girlfriends find it at least acceptable to own guns for self protection.
If u see someone without a smile, give them one of yours! =)

Offline Kokopelli

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 10:42:02 PM »
Women are women everywhere, and I would not say that anything that is related to weapons is in our blood. Even given the fact that we had a mandatory military training class in the Soviet high school, where we had to disassemble and assemble a Kalashnikov, I cannot tell that we like this thing.
 
My Dad was a passonate hunter and kept guns at home, but I cannot recall what my Mom ever said about it. I think that we were pretty much indifferent about it. Some women may feel that any gun presents a danger to their lives, and would be cautious even to touch it. At the same time, I agree that it would be up to an individual.
The wink meant I was joking.  :)
Field strip an AK47? 


Offline Kokopelli

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 10:49:20 PM »
I inherited a .38 (not the special) ivory handled antique from 1913, a S&W. I pretty much figured it would depend on the woman no matter what the culture, but figured I'd ask. Thanks for all the great answers everyone! :)

Model number?
Does it look like this?


Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 09:16:47 AM »
The Mendeleyev Journal

Russia has some of the strictest gun laws of any country in the world. Handguns are banned except for police and military. A hunting rifle takes a 5+ year permit process, which includes a mental health screening but there are plenty of guns in Russia--just not the legal kind.

Belgorod map height=171

Today at 2pm local time in Belgorod, a city in southern Russia near the border with Ukraine, a lone gunman strode into the Okhota hunting store and began firing, killing 3 salespersons. He then shot several people outside including two young teenaged girls, 16 and 14 years of age, who died at the scene. Another woman was shot outside and died while being treated at the local hospital.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=QHz1UHIN3R4#!

Police say they have identified the gunman as Sergei Pomazun, a 32 yearl old resident of Belgorod who had been released from prison in 2012 on a prior theft conviction. Unconfirmed reports say that the weapon used may have been a Kalashnikov-based semi-automatic 7.62 caliber Saiga carbine.

The assailant fled in a BMW which he abandoned at an Auto Mall. Last reports say the police have the area surrounded by the gunman has not been captured. Authorities believe the shooting started as an attempted robbery.

(Image: Twitter user @cityofgood31) height=373
(Photo: Twitter user @cityofgood31)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 09:18:40 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline Raging Dragon

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 12:26:48 PM »
Model number?
Does it look like this?



Hmm. Not exactly. Handle is a bit small and it's a 5 shot.

Offline southernX

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »
passed through belgorod a few times , border security is quite tight there ime

shame people are the same the world over really when it comes to such crimes

my wife doesnt have any problems with my guns , her son did range shooting in his home city & regularly comes hunting with us , his dadushka has a gun , my wife  did her training at school as well , so although she doesnt shoot, she isnt anti guns either
before we met we discussed it , it would depend on the individual i think

seems russia has similar laws to australia in gun purchase and ownership requirments ,

SX
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Gun ownership and Hunting?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2013, 04:25:03 PM »
There is a growing movement in Russia to allow ownership of private firearms beyond just hunting rifles. One of the groups, called the Right to Bear Arms can be found here: http://pravonaoryzhie.ru/


Of course a quick Google search revealed a story in the New Republic titling such groups as gun nuts.
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