Boston marathon bombers are Chechens?

[CanadaMan]

 The odds are that these clowns acted alone, without any prompting by native Chechens.

And what are the odds that the Montreal and Toronto men who were arrested today for conspiring to blow up a VIA train from Toronto to New York were acting alone, without any prompting by al-Qaeda?   

[TomT]

And what are the odds that the Montreal and Toronto men who were arrested today for conspiring to blow up a VIA train from Toronto to New York were acting alone, without any prompting by al-Qaeda?   

This has nothing to do with the Tsarnaev brothers.

[BillyB]

Some of you guys get your wish. Obama isn't going to label the last suspect a "combatant" and he was read his Miranda rights. Now he can stay quite and use any important info he has for leverage. Now that he will be tried as a criminal in a high profile case, this is going to cost the taxpayers millions. We're too kind to terrorists.

[Faux Pas]

Some of you guys get your wish. Obama isn't going to label the last suspect a "combatant" and he was read his Miranda rights. Now he can stay quite and use any important info he has for leverage. Now that he will be tried as a criminal in a high profile case, this is going to cost the taxpayers millions. We're too kind to terrorists.

For the time being in the U.S., there is still a little aggravating, thorn in the side of the current administration called "due process". It is a right of all American citizens granted by the U.S. Constitution. It doesn't matter that this kid was just near 7 months into his citizenship, he gets that same right. How much it costs is immaterial. What is material is that he gets a fair trial. Just as you would want for yourself, for your brother.

It's not a matter of someones wish Billy, it's the law of the land. You and your ilk wishing to unsurp that right is more dangerous than 1000's of the Boston Marathon bombs

[BillyB]

How much it costs is immaterial.

Aren't you one of those guys that complain about America's growing debt and that our government can't balance a budget? This will be the go to country for terrorists knowing our government and it's people support giving terroists a few million dollars each for their defense. If Obama had the guts to label the suspect a "combatant", the suspect would have to get his own attorney. Since he spent all his money on bombs, I wonder how much his family would support him. He will get his due process and fair trial as a combatant as he would a criminal except he would have to pay for his attorney like most American citizens. What's wrong with that?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Aren't you one of those guys that complain about America's growing debt and that our government can't balance a budget? This will be the go to country for terrorists knowing our government and it's people support giving terroists a few million dollars each for their defense. If Obama had the guts to label the suspect a "combatant", the suspect would have to get his own attorney. Since he spent all his money on bombs, I wonder how much his family would support him. He will get his due process and fair trial as a combatant as he would a criminal except he would have to pay for his attorney like most American citizens. What's wrong with that?

The government loves sheep like you.


Do you really believe the idiotic stuff you post?  We should save money by not allowing a US citizen due process (which includes legal representation) that is given to all of us under the Constitution.  Hell, why stop there.  Why don't we just assassinate people without due process.


Oh wait... looks like we saved a few bucks.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/30/politics/targeting-us-citizens

Geez, this coming from a guy who continues to cry that he is being treated unfair on this board. 

[BillyB]

Do you really believe the idiotic stuff you post?  We should save money by not allowing a US citizen due process (which includes legal representation) that is given to all of us under the Constitution.  Hell, why stop there.  Why don't we just assassinate people without due process.
 

Paranoia will destroya. What are you worried about? Plan on stealing a candy bar and worried having the government strip you of your rights? Scared they coming to get you? John Walker Lindh is an American citizen who joined Al Qaeda an fought on their side. He was captured and labelled an enemy combat by Bush and was tried in court as such. He didn't lose his due process. No big deal. These current terrorists have hurt hundreds of people. Too bad Obama didn't label them for who they are.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/30/politics/targeting-us-citizens

If Anwar Al Awlaki is Al Qaeda and involved in killing Americans, why are you upset our drone killed him? Just because he's an American citizen, he gets a free pass to kill Americans and our government isn't allowed to fire back? I get it, it's you're worried about your rights, not the rights of other Americans to liberty and life that terrorists are trying to take away. Hope you don't get into law enforcement or public office.

[GQBlues]

The latest news special is, they apparently killed the MIT officer because Dzohkhar didn't have gun and they (his older bro and himself) wanted him to have gun except after the searching in and around the boat shortly after his capture, they can't find any gun...but there was a gun battle, yessirree!...
 
Every reported testimony now is predictable. "Yes, we did it. Yes, we did it in the name of religion. No, we acted alone - yada-yada-yada...
 
This Boston tragedy is disastrous in more than one way.
 
The new era of "Man-caused Disaster!"
 
When they deprived this kid of his Constitutional right by virtue of them classifying him as 'enemy combatant", they should've first understood what the term stood for since they're the ones that created it.

[BillyB]

Every reported testimony now is predictable. "Yes, we did it. Yes, we did it in the name of religion. No, we acted alone - yada-yada-yada...
 

Not really predictable. I thought the suspect would list names of collaborators in Russia and we'd join forces with Putin to bomb them.

[Faux Pas]

The latest news special is, they apparently killed the MIT officer because Dzohkhar didn't have gun and they (his older bro and himself) wanted him to have gun except after the searching in and around the boat shortly after his capture, they can't find any gun...but there was a gun battle, yessirree!...
 
Every reported testimony now is predictable. "Yes, we did it. Yes, we did it in the name of religion. No, we acted alone - yada-yada-yada...
 
This Boston tragedy is disastrous in more than one way.
 
The new era of "Man-caused Disaster!"
 
When they deprived this kid of his Constitutional right by virtue of them classifying him as 'enemy combatant", they should've first understood what the term stood for since they're the ones that created it.

IIRC, it was a term from the Patriot Act to describe enemy combatants captured on a foreign battlefield and relocated to a U.S. territory

[CanadaMan]

This has nothing to do with the Tsarnaev brothers.

Yes and no.

No it doesn't, in terms of the actual Boston bombing.
Yes it does, in terms of the topic of terrorism which is very hot these days.

Yesterday the Canadian government introduced a new terrorism bill in parliament.
Just hours later, by 'coincidence', a huge national press conference was held
in which approximately ten police and intelligence services (including the RCMP, CSIS and the FBI) announced the alleged terror plot of these two young guys.

Why did I mention these guys?
Because the Tsarnaev brothers are now believed to have acted alone, despite headlines touting them as Chechen terror suspects the first few days into the story.

And yesterday the Canadian duo terror suspects were announced to have al-Qaeda ties. Maybe in a few days the story will change to acting alone?

[GQBlues]

IIRC, it was a term from the Patriot Act to describe enemy combatants captured on a foreign battlefield and relocated to a U.S. territory

That's the pickle, FP. The term was first classified by the Bush Administration to describe captured enemies who were serving the Taliban, Al-Qeada or any other foreign group or state that wish to levy harm against the US. It was unprecedented hence the birth of Gitmo.
 
In 2009, the Obama administration made a statement to 'abandon' this term. So now in essence, their violation of this kid's Constitutional rights was based on an abandoned terminology by the the same administration. And further execerbated it by their silly attempt to connect these guys to a 'foreign group' and color them as extermists just so they can backtrack and re-classify him as an 'enemy combatant just so they can interrogate him as one (ala-Gitmo) and conveniently not give the kid his Miranda rights. Then retract that again within a day or so when they can't connect them to anything or anyone and the enemy combatant terminology won't stick. It is failing very miserably.
 
In the meantime, they already violated this kid's right to a defense and a fair trial, which he is afforded to by the Constitution that our politicians today are juggling around at their political leisure. This kid is very toast whether or not he had anything to do with the bombing.
 
They absolutely have no baseline evidence to tie them into some notorious jihadist group or history. None. You can almost visualize how these idiots are scrambling around this case making pshyt up along the way.

[BillyB]

The term was first classified by the Bush Administration to describe captured enemies who were serving the Taliban, Al-Qeada or any other foreign group or state that wish to levy harm against the US. It was unprecedented hence the birth of Gitmo.
 

Let's not make stuff up. Just because Bush labeled a few guys combatants and used the term, doesn't mean he invented it. "Combatant" has been around for a long time. Geneva convention talks about legal and other types of combatants. Depending on the type of combatant, there are different privilages with most privilages going to legal combatants. The suspect in custody and his brother were not legal combatants authorized by a legitimate government to attack a civilian population.
 

  hence the birth of Gitmo.
 

What would the cost be in dollars and choking our judicial system if those guys were able to have all the rights to a trial in America? According to Geneva convention, those guys lose rights if they are not legal combatants. Bush didn't write those rules.

[GQBlues]

Let's not make stuff up....NOISE FILTERED

"In the United States the phrase "enemy combatant" was used after the September 11 attacks by the George W. Bush administration to include an alleged member of al Qaeda or the Taliban being held in detention by the U.S. government as part of the war on terror. In this sense, "enemy combatant" actually refers to persons the United States regards as unlawful combatants, a category of persons who do not qualify for prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions. Thus, the term "enemy combatant" has to be read in context to determine whether it means any combatant belonging to an enemy state, whether lawful or unlawful, or if it means an alleged member of al Qaeda or of the Taliban being detained as an unlawful combatant by the United States."
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatant
 

...What would the cost be in dollars and choking our judicial system if those guys were able to have all the rights to a trial in America? According to Geneva convention, those guys lose rights if they are not legal combatants. Bush didn't write those rules.

They already have been. Processing. Noise filtered...

[BillyB]

The term was first classified by the Bush Administration

Read your Wiki link again. It talks about the history of the word and Geneva Convention usage. It's also mentioned in a 1942 Supreme Court ruling. It was not first classified by the Bush Administration. This debate kind of reminds me of my kids arguing over a song on the radio. I tell them it's an old song done as a remake. They insist it's a new song invented by a modern artist.

[GQBlues]

I'll make this as simple as I possibly can...
 
If a person *classified* someone an idiot, it doesn't mean that person *invented* the word 'idiot'.
 

... Just because Bush labeled a few guys combatants and used the term, doesn't mean he invented it....

So where did I say Bush *invented* it? I hope that helps...
 
 

[BillyB]

The term was first classified by the Bush Administration

Why did you leave out the word "first" in your last post? "First" is the key word here. Read definition of "first" and read definition of "classified". Put it together and what do you have? Bush was not the first to classify "enemy combatant." He did not invent the definition of that phrase. He took the definition of it based off previous laws that defined it and applied it to terrorism which wasn't considered when it was first classified.

[GQBlues]

Why did you leave out the word "first" in your last post? "First" is the key word here. Read definition of "first" and read definition of "classified". Put it together and what do you have? Bush was not the first to classify "enemy combatant." He did not invent the definition of that phrase. He took the definition of it based off previous laws that defined it and applied it to terrorism which wasn't considered when if was first classified.

Now I can fully understand your children's frustration.
 
The thread's subject at hand is about terrorism, thus enemy combatants came to fruition because of the authorities' decision to deprive a US citizen of his Constitutional rights. It (enemy combatant) was used to classify Dhzokhar as one to justify denying him his Constitutional rights.

It (enemy combatants) was FIRST USED by the Bush administration, post-911, to classify OR describe captured terrorists, or armed combatants, fighting for the Talibans & Al Qaeda, in trying to decide what to do with captured enemy combatants since they/we (the US) were technically not at war with a recognized state (Taliban was not a UN recognized state and neither was Al Qaeda). Since they were not fighting for a recognized state, thus the Geneva Convention isn't applicable. Since they weren't US citizens either, then the laws of the US Constitution isn't applicable either. Thus, they were detained in Gitmo on a purgatorial state
 
I had my suspicion you weren't just dense BillyB, but blatantly just full of it. Now you just confirmed it.
 
Now your favorite phase: Yes or no question, LOL.
 
Did I said Bush invented the term Enemy Combatants? Yes or No. Think just don't hurt yourself.

[BillyB]

It (enemy combatants) was FIRST USED by the Bush administration, ....

We could have a more intelligent debate if you would stop making stuff up. Nowhere in your Wiki link does it say Bush used anything as a first when classifying "enemy combatants". For all we know, he followed examples and defined it the same way another country(the first) has in 1997 when dealing with terrorists. If you care about terrorists rights so much because it affects yours rights, send them money to hire a professional attorney instead of letting them rely on public defenders who barely made it out of school. How many of OJ's attorneys are available?

[GQBlues]

We could have a more intelligent debate if you would stop making stuff up. Nowhere in your Wiki link does it say Bush used anything as a first when classifying "enemy combatants".

9/11 was an unprecedented event involving an attack on the US by a stateless combatants. WIKI had nothing to do with that. Since the events of 9/11, and the ensuing events thereafter and as a result of it - anything will and can be easily classified - thus understood - as being 'first'.
 

.  If you care about terrorists rights so much because it affects yours rights, send them money to hire a professional attorney instead of letting them rely on public defenders who barely made it out of school. How many of OJ's attorneys are available?

LOL....WTF does OJ got to do with this? That's your version of an 'intelligent' discussion? Holly Molly...

[LiveFromUkraine]

Paranoia will destroya. What are you worried about? Plan on stealing a candy bar and worried having the government strip you of your rights? Scared they coming to get you? John Walker Lindh is an American citizen who joined Al Qaeda an fought on their side. He was captured and labelled an enemy combat by Bush and was tried in court as such. He didn't lose his due process. No big deal. These current terrorists have hurt hundreds of people. Too bad Obama didn't label them for who they are.




If Anwar Al Awlaki is Al Qaeda and involved in killing Americans, why are you upset our drone killed him? Just because he's an American citizen, he gets a free pass to kill Americans and our government isn't allowed to fire back? I get it, it's you're worried about your rights, not the rights of other Americans to liberty and life that terrorists are trying to take away. Hope you don't get into law enforcement or public office.

Billy, you're like people who cry we should tax the rich because they have more money and should pay their fair share.  Later they find out that many people think you are doing too well and should be taxed more which people like you would disagree and cry "unfair."


It always surprises me when someone is willing to give up the rights of another so easily.   They think it won't come back to bite them but if or when it does, they will be the first to cry like a baby because it wasn't suppose to be that way.

[TomT]

We could have a more intelligent debate...

GQB,


Abandon all hope ye who enter engage here.

[GQBlues]

Abandon all hope ye who enter engage here.

 
 
Anyway, this event is just nuts, man.

'See something, Say something' era is now upon us. Now anyone who's carrying a backpack is seen with extreme skepticism at best, terrorist potential *Man-Causing Disaster* at worst....
 
My wife just got a text from SMC that they just shutdown Sta Monica College (I'm impress they still have her on their call list database).
 
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-santa-monica-college-bomb-20130423,0,5971872.story

[TomT]

It's a pity that the pressure cookers weren't in plastic bags, we could have reduced a major source of pollution.

[Faux Pas]

 
 
Anyway, this event is just nuts, man.

'See something, Say something' era is now upon us. Now anyone who's carrying a backpack is seen with extreme skepticism at best, terrorist potential *Man-Causing Disaster* at worst....
 
My wife just got a text from SMC that they just shutdown Sta Monica College (I'm impress they still have her on their call list database).
 
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-santa-monica-college-bomb-20130423,0,5971872.story

Everything about it stinks to high heaven. I am waiting on the pressure cooker and pots with certain capacity control laws