FSU women lateness to appointments?

[mies]

I am on time most of the time. Sometimes traffic makes me 5 to 15 minutes later but it’s rare as I allow some time for it, and much oftener I come in advance. And I see nothing special about it, it’s as easy as to come   there at all. If I do come why would I be late? I might as well not come at all, after all. In fact, sometimes I am looking at my watch and counting seconds to ring the bell. My watch is never more than 20 seconds inaccurate, so you can check your clock when I come. But that is when I have an appointment for a certain time. When there is a party, it is usually lax and no one pays attention to the time, so the issue simply does not exist. It’s just a party that starts at a certain time and ends when it is too late, you can join any time basically.
The exception is my wife and her parents: when they invite us, we are always a few hours late. Perhaps because we do not live in the same building, we need to cross the street once. This is to come back on topic as I am not a woman.

Stirlitz, I see some wiggling on your part here. You quoted my comment when I was talking about being late to the house party/dinner party, and said I was exaggerating, then you say you are always on time, and then you say that "When there is a party, it is usually lax and no one pays attention to the time, so the issue simply does not exist." Whatever way you phrase it, with any party, the guests are given some "start time" when invited to that party, or approximate start time. I get a feeling that you somehow confirm my statement that people in Ukraine do not have a habit to show up on time (sharp) to the parties/family parties. And even though you are always just on time to your "other appointments" you are normally/always few hours late when you are visiting your in-laws. Did I understand your comment correctly? And then, how is it different from what I said in my posts? Oh, I forgot. You are not a woman. Мужчина не опаздывает, он задерживается 
I have European friends who expect to start eating dinner 5 minutes into the party. And when someone is 5-15 minutes late "due to the traffic", it is a huge nuisance to them.
How do you usually know whether the hosts gave you "lax" time, and whether they gave you "exact" time?

[mies]

I'm glad you didn't take my clinical definition as a dig, it wasn't.  My wife would be late to all social functions if I wasn't there to encourage (push dragging and screaming) punctuality. It is a trait she shared with many of my past AW gfs as well. If you will notice people who are regularly late to dinner parties, parties and other functions usually love the "grand" entrance to sap attention and then often turn into a wall flower or leave soon after, if they feel they didn't get enough. I find it annoying like someone slamming a door 30 minutes into a good performance.

When I get and accept an invitation, my first question is what time do you want me there, followed by what can I bring? I then do my best to arrive at that time. Again, I see it as rude to the host to do otherwise. If as you say, it is the unwritten rule in the FSU, to actually be expected late is the norm, there's flaw in that logic.

I'm really not anal over punctuality and I expect much less from some others than I do myself but, when given a time to arrive, I'll arrive at that time. If given an "ish", I'll arrive then too. It's really not difficult to be on time  Simple planning

I know it wasn't, and why should I? 
Thank you for your insight.
I never make a grand entrance, and never expect (or receive) any special attention. On the contrary, I tend to avoid it. When I come late, people already formed groups for communication/discussions, and I just float from one group to another, without getting too involved in a dialogue with anyone in particular. Whereas if I come on time I will be stuck with a handful of people who are also on time and communication will be more "intimate." Hence, I do not think I have the same pattern of behavior as some of your acquaintances

[GQBlues]

(If I am starting this thread in wrong group please inform me...)

I am wondering if Ukrainian women are just systematically late, and whether I should do something about it?

On my WMVM trip, I think only one woman was not late.  All the other women, they were all somewhere between 10-30 minutes late.  This is simply a bit annoying.

I am wondering if other forum members are consistently experiencing the same thing??

I had an opposite experience as you on my first trip. I'm not at all acutely aware if this is a cultural either. Generally for me folks are pretty much the same.
 
Your topic subject reminded me of a classic T/R from the other board by an old member that went by the moniker 'Freebird'. His T/R was titled "Weekend in Moscow", arguably one of my most favorite T/R ever. True to his moniker, he was always late for his date when he went to Moscow for the weekend to meet the girl he was interested in at the time. He was always late because he would always get side tracked gambling and weird circumstances that were happening to him the night before. LOL - drove the gal nuts because she apparently really liked him a lot. Consequently, I don't believe it worked out or him.
 
I don't put too much stock one way or another about making sure one is on time or otherwise. I put more weight on if folks would at least let you know they'll be late. Of course, there are just things in life where being punctual and studious is (borderline) mandatory - a job interview is one of them. Dates, parties, or any other social get-togethers, etc...IMO, much too casual to be stressing yourself out too much about it.

[Chicagoguy]

Rita Rudner:
My husband has a new idea. He says I'll be waiting out in the car for you.
 He doesn't know that this gives me more time to call my friends.

[Stirlitz]

Stirlitz, I see some wiggling on your part here. You quoted my comment when I was talking about being late to the house party/dinner party, and said I was exaggerating, then you say you are always on time, and then you say that "When there is a party, it is usually lax and no one pays attention to the time, so the issue simply does not exist." Whatever way you phrase it, with any party, the guests are given some "start time" when invited to that party, or approximate start time. I get a feeling that you somehow confirm my statement that people in Ukraine do not have a habit to show up on time (sharp) to the parties/family parties. And even though you are always just on time to your "other appointments" you are normally/always few hours late when you are visiting your in-laws. Did I understand your comment correctly? And then, how is it different from what I said in my posts? Oh, I forgot. You are not a woman. Мужчина не опаздывает, он задерживается 
I have European friends who expect to start eating dinner 5 minutes into the party. And when someone is 5-15 minutes late "due to the traffic", it is a huge nuisance to them.
How do you usually know whether the hosts gave you "lax" time, and whether they gave you "exact" time?

It’s difficult to say as I seldom go to parties. I just described the general situation as it probably is in my view, but that is only what I believe. But I am always on time wherever I go. If I see I may be late, I will call and warn. As for my wife’s parents...  it’s not me who is late, it’s my wife - I just follow her...

[knighta]

I wonder how many couples have done AIS?

[mies]

It’s difficult to say as I seldom go to parties. I just described the general situation as it probably is in my view, but that is only what I believe. But I am always on time wherever I go. If I see I may be late, I will call and warn. As for my wife’s parents...  it’s not me who is late, it’s my wife - I just follow her...

Ok. Let us begin again.
1) you seldom go to parties, and hence your opinion about ukrainian people being late (or on time) to parties although exists, isn't based on facts.
2) you are usually on time, and when you are late - you call and warn.

To what appointments are you usually on time?
And suppose, the woman also calls and warns that she will be late. How is she different from you, then?

[Aloe]

"always be fashionably late, anything between 5 to 15 minutes. If you really want to see how much the guy likes you - be late more. If you come on time, or God forbid early - you will appear as needy and he will have no respect for you."

This was what all the girls i knew in Russia were doing, including me (up to 15 mins late). Showing up early or on time for a date as a woman is perceived as needy/desperate. There is no worse humiliation on a date than having shown up before the guy did and standing there like a fool all dressed up for the whole world to see, waiting 

[GoodOlBoy]

There is no worse humiliation on a date than having shown up before the guy did and standing there like a fool all dressed up for the whole world to see, waiting 

Ta-dah!
 
GOB

[Patagonie]

This was what all the girls i knew in Russia were doing, including me (up to 15 mins late). Showing up early or on time for a date as a woman is perceived as needy/desperate. There is no worse humiliation on a date than having shown up before the guy did and standing there like a fool all dressed up for the whole world to see, waiting 

I think that a lot of guys should read this as gold material.
This is exactly what women do generally.
And what men do ? They are on time, a lot in advance, and wait like a fool behind the crownd, sometimes wearing a heavy bouquet in the hands, so they are exhausted when the lady consent to show up.
Depending the situation, i am on time if some others people are involved like terp, agency.
If not i arrive on time, or more often with five minutes of delay.
For those who practice the "i always arrive 10 or 15 minutes late" i have a technique. After one or two appointements which such lady i come and i stay outside of her seeing, if possible in a comfortable place like a coffee, and i wait quietly, if possible i read a newspaper or i work my english or my russian. I let her to call me and sometimes i have the joy to see her disappointement in live when she realizes that she is the first one. I repeat the treatment till she drops her shit.
If this behavior is permanent, because you will meet some people who are almost always late with an important delay (as it happened with one of my AW girlfriend), i use the step 2 program, which consists to arrive later than her (sometimes 40 minutes), and let her calling like a fool, but without picking up the phone. Be smiling and when she asks you why you don't answer tell her free and easy that you didn't realize that your phone was on silent mode.
Just do to this people what they usually do to others people, it is amazing to see how it is infuriating them when they are the victims. 

 
If i have no news i decide to go to a comfortable location after 10 or 15 minutes and decide on a maximum time to wait, generally it is 30 or 40 minutes maximum. After i delete her name on my phone for ever, except if she successes to convince me that she has a very good excuse.

[Aloe]

I think that a lot of guys should read this as gold material.
This is exactly what women do generally.
And what men do ? They are on time, a lot in advance, and wait like a fool behind the crownd, sometimes wearing a heavy bouquet in the hands, so they are exhausted when the lady consent to show up.
Depending the situation, i am on time if some others people are involved like terp, agency.
If not i arrive on time, or more often with five minutes of delay.
For those who practice the "i always arrive 10 or 15 minutes late" i have a technique. After one or two appointements which such lady i come and i stay outside of her seeing, if possible in a comfortable place like a coffee, and i wait quietly, if possible i read a newspaper or i work my english or my russian. I let her to call me and sometimes i have the joy to see her disappointement in live when she realizes that she is the first one. I repeat the treatment till she drops her shit.
If this behavior is permanent, because you will meet some people who are almost always late with an important delay (as it happened with one of my AW girlfriend), i use the step 2 program, which consists to arrive later than her (sometimes 40 minutes), and let her calling like a fool, but without picking up the phone. Be smiling and when she asks you why you don't answer tell her free and easy that you didn't realize that your phone was on silent mode.
Just do to this people what they usually do to others people, it is amazing to see how it is infuriating them when they are the victims. 

 
If i have no news i decide to go to a comfortable location after 10 or 15 minutes and decide on a maximum time to wait, generally it is 30 or 40 minutes maximum. After i delete her name on my phone for ever, except if she successes to convince me that she has a very good excuse.

I've never ever received any flowers on a date from someone who wasn't my bf It doesn't make any sense to be late for a date with your bf. With a stranger however it makes perfect sense    They don't bring flowers or dress up anyway

[mies]

Ta-dah!
 
GOB

Well, most of WM are looking for a Traditional Woman, from the society with Traditional and not equal gender roles. So this is part of the package. The man should court woman, man should make first step in everything. That involves being first to dates (and not simultaneously or late). To enforce traditional gender roles, women have to come late to dates. Because there are always guys who show up late.

(this comment is somewhat a tongue in a cheek but you got the gist).

[mies]

I think that a lot of guys should read this as gold material.
This is exactly what women do generally.
And what men do ? They are on time, a lot in advance, and wait like a fool behind the crownd, sometimes wearing a heavy bouquet in the hands, so they are exhausted when the lady consent to show up.
Depending the situation, i am on time if some others people are involved like terp, agency.
If not i arrive on time, or more often with five minutes of delay.
For those who practice the "i always arrive 10 or 15 minutes late" i have a technique. After one or two appointements which such lady i come and i stay outside of her seeing, if possible in a comfortable place like a coffee, and i wait quietly, if possible i read a newspaper or i work my english or my russian. I let her to call me and sometimes i have the joy to see her disappointement in live when she realizes that she is the first one. I repeat the treatment till she drops her shit.
If this behavior is permanent, because you will meet some people who are almost always late with an important delay (as it happened with one of my AW girlfriend), i use the step 2 program, which consists to arrive later than her (sometimes 40 minutes), and let her calling like a fool, but without picking up the phone. Be smiling and when she asks you why you don't answer tell her free and easy that you didn't realize that your phone was on silent mode.
Just do to this people what they usually do to others people, it is amazing to see how it is infuriating them when they are the victims. 

 
If i have no news i decide to go to a comfortable location after 10 or 15 minutes and decide on a maximum time to wait, generally it is 30 or 40 minutes maximum. After i delete her name on my phone for ever, except if she successes to convince me that she has a very good excuse.

that very much reminds me of someone i used to know       
The only problem with my acquaintance was that he acquired this habit with his first GF, but was practicing it on all subsequent gf's and females. And he also dropped the heavy bouquet somewhere on the way, or perhaps never bothered to buy it. ))

[BillyB]

This was what all the girls i knew in Russia were doing, including me (up to 15 mins late). Showing up early or on time for a date as a woman is perceived as needy/desperate. There is no worse humiliation on a date than having shown up before the guy did and standing there like a fool all dressed up for the whole world to see, waiting 

There's nothing wrong with showing up on time. It's a man's responsibility to show up before "On time". You should be on time to judge how responsible the man is. If ladies want to be irresponsible and late all the time, they will match up well with irresponsible men.

[noelscot]

(If I am starting this thread in wrong group please inform me...)

I am wondering if Ukrainian women are just systematically late, and whether I should do something about it?

On my WMVM trip, I think only one woman was not late.  All the other women, they were all somewhere between 10-30 minutes late.  This is simply a bit annoying.

I am wondering if other forum members are consistently experiencing the same thing??

It's not "their culture" to be late. Some folks here will try to convince you that you should tolerate B.S., but you'll only set yourself up as a door mat. Bad behavior is bad behavior.

[CDW]

LATE = GOODBYE  (SAME MEANING)

[Stirlitz]

Ok. Let us begin again.
1) you seldom go to parties, and hence your opinion about ukrainian people being late (or on time) to parties although exists, isn't based on facts.
2) you are usually on time, and when you are late - you call and warn.

To what appointments are you usually on time?
And suppose, the woman also calls and warns that she will be late. How is she different from you, then?

I know! You work for the government. Either the IRS or the police. Which? 

[ML]

There is no worse humiliation on a date than having shown up before the guy did and standing there like a fool all dressed up for the whole world to see, waiting 

Yes, it is terrible.

But it doesn't apply to the guys when the roles are reversed.

It's OK for the guy to be humiliated, and look and feel like a fool.

[ML]

For you gals who like  to be late for date with a guy, and are happy to be with the guy who continually waits for you despite your rudeness

. . . they make pretty good husband and father material; and such acceptance probably helps them advance in their professional careers.

[tfcrew]

When I arrived to meet my wife for the first time, she was eagerly there..[I was late].
Snow delayed my flight from Vienna

[Larry1]

For you gals who like  to be late for date with a guy, and are happy to be with the guy who continually waits for you despite your rudeness

. . . they make pretty good husband and father material; and such acceptance probably helps them advance in their professional careers.

That reminds me of something I read decades ago.  A manager said he preferred to hire guys who had families to support because he knew that those guys were more likely to do absolutely anything he ordered them to do because they had to have a job to support their families.

[Chicagoguy]

I once was waiting on the train platform in Russia for an out of town date. Flowers in my hand. I stood there until the platform was empty. Imagine that sight.
Went back into that station and walked around for about 20 minutes. Nothing. Took to metro to Menezh Square for computer  [ before we all had one with us ]. No message and times and station were correct. Flowers were in garbage.
Went back to rented flat in a foul mood and after going through front door with elevator to 4th floor - there she was standing by my door. A train problem and a huge effort on her part ! No, not the one I married, but still in touch years later.

[knighta]

When I arrived to meet my wife for the first time, she was eagerly there..[I was late].
Snow delayed my flight from Vienna

Same thing happened to me when I was going to Belarus.  The lady I was seeing and her friend who was the interpreter traveled from Gomel to Minsk and waited a couple of hours for me.  I forgot the airline I was on but when I was on the airplane they announced something I didn't understand so I asked the guy next to me and apparently they forgot to put enough fuel in the airplane. 

[Jumper]

 My wife was always very punctual, and I admire that trait.
It shows respect for the other persons time,  as if it was your own.
Simple concept really.

[Anotherkiwi]

My wife was always very punctual, and I admire that trait.
It shows respect for the other persons time,  as if it was your own.
Simple concept really.

I'm not the most punctual person when it comes to things which don't really matter, but I am when it concerns transport or meetings.  The first lady I met in Russia had made an enormous effort to meet me - my plane landed in Kazan at about 8.30 am, and she and her daughter were there to meet me.  They had left Naberezhnye Chelny (230 km away) by bus at 3 am to make sure that they could get to Kazan and then out to the airport (which is half an hour from the city) in time to meet the plane.
 
I really appreciated the effort - just a shame that we didn't click romantically.     She was always on time for everything which we planned, as was the woman I went to meet on my second trip.  Different story with a RW friend from Poland who visited here a couple of years ago.  I don't think that she was on time for anything except one restaurant dinner - when I was held up at work and was half an hour late picking her up!