California CPS kidnaps Russian baby

[GQBlues]

...GQ, nice comeback. Once you saw your points defending the CPS being taken out you did not try to divert things by pointing at what is wrong in Russia but admitted you defends things based on nothing but your love for the government. It takes a real man to admit such a thing.

I'm no more defending CPS, Sutter, the parents, etc...as I am making a point about due process. I suffer no knee-jerk reactionay lapses.

[GQBlues]

...It does not mean that all Californians/Mexifornians are in agreement with GQ.  It will take time to bring the unwashed into logical thinking.  In the mean time, please respect that all Californians are not lockstep into the socialistic/communistic rhetoric of some of our members...

A little bit of education can go a long way, old man. Mexifornians? Socialism? Is that an implication somehow that the illega immigration problems we have are from Mexico...or are you implying the majority of California's population, thereby problems, are simply because of Mexicans?

[mendeleyev]

A quarter decade later Kremlin justice today is nothing but a show, wouldn't you agree? People still gets beaten and dragged down by the police for merely standing up for its rights and convictions. To see the wrong as they are and not recognize it, is just as bad as if you're the one who committed the sin. You like to tell tales of a police state in the US - methinks you have a lifetime of samplings with that in Russia, no?

You couldn't be more wrong.

I have been so critical of the government that some on the forums have falsely accused me of being on the opposition's payroll.

Engage brain before speaking. Even some of the links I provided for you upthread were about opposition activities and the government crackdown.

[GQBlues]

You couldn't be more wrong.

I have been so critical of the government that some on the forums have falsely accused me of being on the opposition's payroll.

Engage brain before speaking. Even some of the links I provided for you upthread were about opposition activities and the government crackdown.

No, I'm not...to what end?
 
You merely reported what you are paid to do, isn't it? What were the consequences suffered by the present government with all these oppressive actions in your stories? Any report on that, or should you be paid first? What happened to the alleged 'investigation called by Putin of the fire that killed those 38 people, Mendy? Nothing? Really?
 
Are you waiting for a check first? Heck, how much were you paid to classify the baby Sammy case as kidnapping and for sensationalising in the manner you do PRIOR to due process?

 
Your silly attempt to toss garbage at someone neglected you to notice and understand you're standing atop of a heap yourself.
 
 
 

[Shadow]

I'm no more defending CPS, Sutter, the parents, etc...as I am making a point about due process. I suffer no knee-jerk reactionay lapses.

That is a medical problem you need to get checked.

Especially as your writings indicate that you do suffer from the need to prove yourself against your own words. I know that people hate to admit they were wrong, taking responsibility is not cool.

[mendeleyev]

If you are stupid enough to believe that I get paid to report a certain outcome, please be my guest. Stupidity is free so have all you'd like although I don't think of you in that way.

Once you grow up you may learn that employees take direction on where and when to travel from those who pay the salary. Once you become a business owner, clients assume that role in any type of business.

The fact that both sides, opposition and the government are often irritated by what I report, plus the respect of my peers, is all the confirmation I need.

I've called you intelligent and a good writer in this thread despite your apparent need to belittle me. The old expression of "don't throw pearls before swine" may apply for either of us so I'm done with petty arguments.

My offer stands: if you can write something useful and of interest, be it Sochi if you'd like, I'll publish it as offered earlier.

[jone]

Oh, boy, I can't believe I'm doing this, but:

Due process of law is ingrained in our system.  Technically, GQ is correct.  This is coming from a Californian who straddles the fence but often votes with the Red Staters.

While the evidence that we are aware of clearly supports mismanagement by CPS, under current and existing laws, CPS, even if in possession of the the secondary note, cannot disregard an opinion by a surgeon that would put the baby at risk.  This case is unusual to the extreme.  While doctor opinions sometimes conflict, very few times do they err not on the side of caution.  That makes this case an extreme version of what might happen under the law. 

To think that there was some risk for the baby, according to California law, requires action be taken.  In my mind, this is not a left wing or right wing point of view.  Once the baby is out of danger, then due process begins and all can be sorted out.

In our history, under dire circumstances, we have suspension of all types of basic rights.  Anyone who saw the movie Lincoln will remember his suspension of habeas corpus in some of the Border States.  But at the same time, we saw that due process was slated to resume and would overturn an Executive Order freeing the slaves in the rebelling states. 

The rights of an individual (the baby) were in question here.   Those are dire circumstances.   While CPS got it wrong, the suspension of rights of the parents were in the interests of the baby.   My belief is that the black eye that CPS received was for ignoring evidence to the contrary of the basic assumption, that a child was endangered.    It would be a miscarriage of justice that CPS has it's wings clipped due to overzealous activities by a limited few.  Instead, I believe that there are a tremendous number of children that are aptly protected and that such protection should continue under California law.

[Muzh]

Oh, boy, I can't believe I'm doing this, but:

Due process of law is ingrained in our system.  Technically, GQ is correct.  This is coming from a Californian who straddles the fence but often votes with the Red Staters.

While the evidence that we are aware of clearly supports mismanagement by CPS, under current and existing laws, CPS, even if in possession of the the secondary note, cannot disregard an opinion by a surgeon that would put the baby at risk.  This case is unusual to the extreme.  While doctor opinions sometimes conflict, very few times do they err not on the side of caution.  That makes this case an extreme version of what might happen under the law. 

To think that there was some risk for the baby, according to California law, requires action be taken.  In my mind, this is not a left wing or right wing point of view.  Once the baby is out of danger, then due process begins and all can be sorted out.

In our history, under dire circumstances, we have suspension of all types of basic rights.  Anyone who saw the movie Lincoln will remember his suspension of habeas corpus in some of the Border States.  But at the same time, we saw that due process was slated to resume and would overturn an Executive Order freeing the slaves in the rebelling states. 

The rights of an individual (the baby) were in question here.   Those are dire circumstances.   While CPS got it wrong, the suspension of rights of the parents were in the interests of the baby.   My belief is that the black eye that CPS received was for ignoring evidence to the contrary of the basic assumption, that a child was endangered.    It would be a miscarriage of justice that CPS has it's wings clipped due to overzealous activities by a limited few.  Instead, I believe that there are a tremendous number of children that are aptly protected and that such protection should continue under California law.

Good post. I agree with what you said except this:
 
 My belief is that the black eye that CPS received was for ignoring evidence to the contrary of the basic assumption, that a child was endangered.
 
I know it is your assumption but keep in mind, CPS has TWO reports. How are they to know which one is right?
 
So, what if CPS sided with the OTHER doctors and baby dies? Can you say lynch mob?
 
This is why civil servants ALWAYS err on the side of safety.

[GQBlues]

 

That is a medical problem you need to get checked.

Especially as your writings indicate that you do suffer from the need to prove yourself against your own words. I know that people hate to admit they were wrong, taking responsibility is not cool.

It was merely a suspicion before but now I know for certain. It's painfully obvious the Dutch model only comes with one gear. For a while there I was under the impression you were only stuck in it. My bad.
 

If you are stupid enough to believe that I get paid to report a certain outcome, please be my guest. Stupidity is free so have all you'd like although I don't think of you in that way.

Once you grow up you may learn that employees take direction on where and when to travel from those who pay the salary. Once you become a business owner, clients assume that role in any type of business.

The fact that both sides, opposition and the government are often irritated by what I report, plus the respect of my peers, is all the confirmation I need.

I've called you intelligent and a good writer in this thread despite your apparent need to belittle me. The old expression of "don't throw pearls before swine" may apply for either of us so I'm done with petty arguments.

My offer stands: if you can write something useful and of interest, be it Sochi if you'd like, I'll publish it as offered earlier.

A-hah! Another area we're definitely different in Mendy. I get paid to do what I know in my trade not what I'm only told to do...
As for the invite, I've never been much a shill much less a propagandist for hire. But thanks anyway....
 

...While the evidence that we are aware of clearly supports mismanagement by CPS, under current and existing laws, CPS, even if in possession of the the secondary note, cannot disregard an opinion by a surgeon that would put the baby at risk.  This case is unusual to the extreme.  While doctor opinions sometimes conflict, very few times do they err not on the side of caution.  That makes this case an extreme version of what might happen under the law...

 
 
...and to add, a mandated reporter/s, for all intent and purposes, is/are automatically given qualified immunity. The consequence is much too dire to ignore. Any mandated reporter who knowingly disregards any/all cited reportable baseline, alarm, notices, or knowledge of possible case of abuse, and do not follow protocol; is liable for a major financial fine, jail time or both.
 
Thus, a hearing is scheduled and due process of the law will proceed and would likely audit the event in a judicial fashion. Judgment to follow accordingly. Donnelly is bucking for votes to be taking a position of judge and jury absent of a proper hearing. Considering he's in an office of public service, he is a disgrace to the State in which he serves.
 
Knee-jerks (or just jerks), misinformed suppositions, opinions-for-cheap-hire, etc...is just well, uncivilized.

[jone]

Good post. I agree with what you said except this:
 
 My belief is that the black eye that CPS received was for ignoring evidence to the contrary of the basic assumption, that a child was endangered.
 
I know it is your assumption but keep in mind, CPS has TWO reports. How are they to know which one is right?
 
So, what if CPS sided with the OTHER doctors and baby dies? Can you say lynch mob?
 
This is why civil servants ALWAYS err on the side of safety.

Of course you are right.   SOP.

[mendeleyev]

A-hah! Another area we're definitely different in Mendy. I get paid to do what I know in my trade not what I'm only told to do...
As for the invite, I've never been much a shill much less a propagandist for hire

Actually we're not. Like you, I am paid for what I know and can accomplish. Having someone assign me to cover an event or story is far different from being told the outcome in advance. For you to infer that the outcome of a story is "for hire" is dishonest.

[GQBlues]

Actually we're not. Like you, I am paid for what I know and can accomplish....

I see. So like me, you haven't grown-up either. 

...Once you grow up you may learn that employees take direction on where and when to travel from those who pay the salary. Once you become a business owner, clients assume that role in any type of business....

[BillyB]

keep in mind, CPS has TWO reports. How are they to know which one is right?
 

 
If I remember correctly, the second report is the report CPS pursued and sent an officer to get that report. The baby was reported fine and that is when CPS should have stopped pursuing the baby. If they don't have faith in their own investigative practices, they aren't qualified to do this work. Either way, they are going to look silly in court.

[Shadow]

 
It was merely a suspicion before but now I know for certain. It's painfully obvious the Dutch model only comes with one gear. For a while there I was under the impression you were only stuck in it. My bad.
 

Guess you never heard of the CVT, a Dutch invention based on our capabilities.

[jone]

 
If I remember correctly, the second report is the report CPS pursued and sent an officer to get that report. The baby was reported fine and that is when CPS should have stopped pursuing the baby. If they don't have faith in their own investigative practices, they aren't qualified to do this work. Either way, they are going to look silly in court.

Unfortunately, what we know is only what is reported in the media.  Because the CPS reports are sealed, there is no way ANYONE other than a court officer or judge actually knows what CPS did or did not do.  In my post, I put 'evidence that we are aware of'.  Because until information comes out in court, we can only speculate what the real facts are of the case. 

Speculating on what investigative practices were or were not in place is hardly uncommon on this forum, but demonstrates the desire of members to offer opinions that are not always based on fact.

[Muzh]

 
If I remember correctly, the second report is the report CPS pursued and sent an officer to get that report. The baby was reported fine and that is when CPS should have stopped pursuing the baby. If they don't have faith in their own investigative practices, they aren't qualified to do this work. Either way, they are going to look silly in court.

So let me get this right.

People with NO medical experience can and should make judgement calls regarding someone else life, correct?

Boy you sure are obtuse.

[Shadow]

So let me get this right.

People with NO medical experience can and should make judgement calls regarding someone else life, correct?

Boy you sure are obtuse.

Next time read the topic so you have at least a remote idea what you post about.

[GQBlues]

Guess you never heard of the CVT, a Dutch invention based on our capabilities.  

   Hah! I could give credit to the Dutch but only when the buttered muffins are served as I do not want to disrespect the Brits..