Thoughts on returning to Russia...what women are looking for.

[Patagonie]

I'm sure there's more than a just a few who would agree with your assessment whether it's openly admitted or not.

Women are women. There's no more materialistic women from the FSU as there are in the western hemisphere.

I do believe however that the vast majority of divorces with these marriages is simply because there are more men who categorically falls in the typical MOBers mold than not. Money is usually pushed up front during courtship because there's little else to offer. So it isn't surprising that such is the life source for many of these relationships.

"pushed up front during the courtship" +1
"because there's little else to offer" +1

[Muzh]

I would not hasten with the word "easily". It can be easily only because of pure luck. And many have unlucky cards. Looking abroad gives one the better chance to meet a soul mate.

I'll dissent on a different vote. Especially with the white angry old men from the good ol' US of A.

[Gator]

I'll dissent on a different vote. Especially with the white angry old men from the good ol' US of A.

What does this obtuse post imply or assert?   
 
Muzh, you are a precise writer.  Your post sounds as if it could be racist, yet I would find that difficult to believe coming from what you write elsewhere. 
 
This thread could be really interesting and helpful.   It sounds as if your are injecting some ill will from another thread.  There is no need to do that as it could derail this thread.
 
Why are those with much to share so contentious at times?
 
 

[Muzh]

What does this obtuse post imply or assert?   
 
Muzh, you are a precise writer.  Your post sounds as if it could be racist, yet I would find that difficult to believe coming from what you write elsewhere. 
 
This thread could be really interesting and helpful.   It sounds as if your are injecting some ill will from another thread.  There is no need to do that as it could derail this thread.
 
Why are those with much to share so contentious at times?

You are absolutely correct.

I clearly stated white angry old men

Edit to add: This has nothing to do with any other threads, real or imagined. This are MY observations.

[Muzh]

Instead of adding to edits, I'll just continue here.

You think there is not a problem with a very older gent who is set in his ways and, let's be honest, getting to his crabby stage in life bringing here a very younger woman who virtually depends on him for everything?

No problem with that?

Regarding the 'racist' comment, what is the composition of the majority of men doing this?

[Shadow]

Instead of adding to edits, I'll just continue here.

You think there is not a problem with a very older gent who is set in his ways and, let's be honest, getting to his crabby stage in life bringing here a very younger woman who virtually depends on him for everything?

No problem with that?

Regarding the 'racist' comment, what is the composition of the majority of men doing this?

Regardless of it fitting within your moral standards, if both are aware of what they do and agree, there is no problem.
It is similar to a woman becoming a mistress and living off the allowance of a man rich enough to pay her for an occasional reward of pleasure. It may not fit moral standards, but while both knowingly and willingly agree, all you can do is stay away from them if you can not get over your own morals.

[GoodOlBoy]

Regarding the 'racist' comment, ....

No problem......This "honky" knew what you meant Muzh. 
 
GOB

[IAmZon]

Excellent framing of questions ... I don't think AM are going to like where this discussion goes?

I really enjoyed your one comment:  "There is not a single model, your task is to figure out BETTER WHAT she wants to have."  At the same time, this is a two-way street because a man is looking for something better when considering a RW for a wife. 
So a RW has wants and an AM has wants.  These "wants" can create the basis for a contract.   Nevertheless, I do not believe the individual "wants" of two people can be defined very well, given the relative brief amount of face time together.   

Thus, I do not believe a definition of each other's "wants" is a good basis for a contract between a RW and an AM. I agree that a contract is needed.  However, the contract is a simple one:  it is an unyielding commitment to the relationship.  This commitment prevails no matter what.   It is glue.  IMO, such a commitment requires that the two support each other, respect each other's differences and changes, have aligned goals and similar values, have fun together, and feel love.

NEED and HOPE prepare the surface for "glue."

Further, a RW (after moving to America and spending time here and learning of the opportunities and lifestyle here)  may change and develop different "wants."

Probable changes of wants likely become a powerful, long acting solvent

One of the curious points that you raise is that one must feel "love".   I think it is very, very difficult for an excited AM (likely giddy with the prospects of possessing that which is not probable in his normal life - a trophy wife of some sort) - to correctly discern)

[Muzh]

Regardless of it fitting within your moral standards, if both are aware of what they do and agree, there is no problem.
It is similar to a woman becoming a mistress and living off the allowance of a man rich enough to pay her for an occasional reward of pleasure. It may not fit moral standards, but while both knowingly and willingly agree, all you can do is stay away from them if you can not get over your own morals.

Man, where is this all coming from?? Did I say that?

[Muzh]

No problem......This "honky" knew what you meant Muzh. 
 
GOB

Thanks bud.

I don't think it was that difficult to get.

[Muzh]

One of the curious points that you raise is that one must feel "love".   I think it is very, very difficult for an excited AM (likely giddy with the prospects of possessing that which is not probable in his normal life - a trophy wife of some sort) - to correctly discern)

Well, in that case it is HIS loss.

Now keep in mind that some of the men may be going for a business transactions.

[calmissile]

No problem......This "honky" knew what you meant Muzh. 
 
GOB

Please elaborate who is a 'honky'?

[GoodOlBoy]

You think there is not a problem with a very older gent who is set in his ways and, let's be honest, getting to his crabby stage in life bringing here a very younger woman who virtually depends on him for everything?

You have a VERY valid point sir.
We call it back in the hills getting "old and crotchety".
It does happen.
 
GOB

[Gator]

Muzh,  Was it necessary to say "white?"   Brown or black or yellow angry old men are okay? 
 
Here you go derailing Vasilisa's thread.   And admittedly I participated in the derailing by not ignoring your comment that is now confirmed in my book as having  racist roots.  I thought better of you Muzh.     
 
 
 
Think about it - how many intelligent RW share their personal thoughts here?  Very few.  And how many of those have tried to find their soulmate in the West, and not finding such  success return to Mother Russia.    NONE!   Vasilisa gives us a very rare opportunity to learn something.  And you instead want to take the opportunity to be critical of a stereotype that would never have interested Vasilisa.
 
I hope the moderators remove your post, my post and all subsequent related posts so as to not derail what could have been an interesting topic. 

[GoodOlBoy]

Please elaborate who is a 'honky'?

Dude, you really are daft, aren't you?
 
GOB

[Gator]

Excellent framing of questions ... I don't think AM are going to like where this discussion goes?

Not if it is anti-fantasy.

One of the curious points that you raise is that one must feel "love".   I think it is very, very difficult for an excited AM (likely giddy with the prospects of possessing that which is not probable in his normal life - a trophy wife of some sort) - to correctly discern)

My guess is that even a giddy AM has some doubts.  How could he not have questions given the language and cultural differences and probably an age gap?   There is no substitute for time together in different settings.

[Muzh]

Muzh,  Was it necessary to say "white?"   Brown or black or yellow angry old men are okay? 
 
Here you go derailing Vasilisa's thread.   And admittedly I participated in the derailing by not ignoring your comment that is now confirmed in my book as having  racist roots.  I thought better of you Muzh.     
 
 
 
Think about it - how many intelligent RW share their personal thoughts here?  Very few.  And how many of those have tried to find their soulmate in the West, and not finding such  success return to Mother Russia.    NONE!   Vasilisa gives us a very rare opportunity to learn something.  And you instead want to take the opportunity to be critical of a stereotype that would never have interested Vasilisa.
 
I hope the moderators remove your post, my post and all subsequent related posts so as to not derail what could have been an interesting topic.

Whoa Nellie.

Please explain the derailment?

The dear lady is offering her observations about what women from the former Soyuz are looking for and I offer my observations of what is common practice between Western Men and Russian/Ukrainian Women.

You definitely are an overly sensitive guy. I don't have an iota of racism. FYI, I'm as honky as GOB.  Unless you think that ALL people from Puerto Rico are brownie. Now, that would be racist.

Pleez chill.

Edit to add: Now if YOU want to moderate me, that's another story.

[IAmZon]

Not if it is anti-fantasy.

Some version of fantasy lies at the very heart of all this.   


But, I agree with Gator entirely ... it is much more interesting to listen to the honest views (even if critical) of a RW, than any of the common bantering here

[Shadow]

Man, where is this all coming from?? Did I say that?

It is pretty obvious that you seem to have a problem with such cases, present here or not.

[Vasilisa]

What my impressions are if to compare before and after?! Well, I would say there are a lot of changes that have been made, there is a saying that trying to improve you shouldn’t compare yourself with other people, you should compare yourself with yourself yesterday, so speaking about the country in these terms I would say that I see a lot of changes and improvements. After life in the West I can see and even admire the things that I didn’t notice in the past and took them for granted. Now I see them.
When some RW living abroad get homesick more experienced RW recommend them to go visit Russia, like it is supposed to scare them and run back in the US, but coming for a couple of weeks they see a cover. I learnt not to judge the book by its cover and to see beyond smiles, big houses with swimming pools, clean streets and green lawns.
-The majority of people live in small condos but they, not a bank own those condos, they don’t have to pay them off for years, besides most people I know have dachas and the quality of many dachas is better than the quality of the houses in the US (especially in the North or mid-west) that people have to pay off for long years.
-In Russia you have a lot wider choice on what to have and what not to have. You can have a car but you don’t have to have a car especially if you live in a big city.
-The cost of living is lower, the taxes are lower, the expenses are lower.
-The medical system is more affordable, you can choose what kind of service to have and how much to pay. If you pay the cost is reasonable and the service is good and you can pick up the day and time even if it is today. You can call the free ambulance or invite a free doctor to visit you at home just because you have a fever or a headache. Even if the ambulance is free you are served by a real doctor and not by a firefighter/paramedic.
-Women and children have a lot more bonuses in Russia than in the US.
-Less propaganda or any kind/I don’t care attitude.
-Your child is actually raised by you and people with a professional degree and not by a Mexican or  Chinese nanny with high school education.
-People ALWAYS complain and whine a lot about the government, policy, rules, laws, leaders, salaries, lack of money etc, but buy a lot of stuff and travel at the same time.
-You can buy a sim-card and a phone separately and change a sim card and a phone service provider when you want without changing your phone, incoming calls are free.
-Cats and dogs can walk, pee, bark and meow everywhere as long as they want and lay where they want as long as they want.
-You can take a picture of a historical building without being afraid that  you will take a picture of someone’s car, house, kid, etc and someone will ask you to remove it because it’s a private property, etc.
-You can walk where you want when you want.
-Theatre tickets are more affordable
-When you need some information you can come to the head office and be given the information and not to get a card with a phone number on it you need to call.
-When you call somewhere you normally speak with a person, not with an answering machine asking you to press 1,2,3,4 depending on what kind of the information you need to get.
-Shopping malls are open approximately 10am-11pm, 9 am-12pm on Sundays. Small food stores which are within a walking distance are often open 24/7.
-People have seen American, French, Indian, German, Spanish movies and can remember some foreign actors.
-When Missis Russia can’t answer the question who Agnia Barto is it’s the reason for a popular prime time talk show episode.
-Your personal information is not available to any person online unless you put it yourself.
-Strangers  don’t normally bother you with small talks and personal questions.
-Smile can be seen as flirt or desire to sell something.
-Less GMO, cheap organic, food has a flavor, and there is milk 3.2% fat
-WWII veterans pension is higher than an average salary.
-You are not seen as an impolite or rude grumpy person when you don’t want to answer personal questions of a stranger who is “trying to be polite” having a conversation with you.
-People normally show their real feelings and their real attitude towards you not hiding it under smiles trying to impress you and look nice. If they don’t like you,  you will see it right away.
-When you are having a conversation people express what they think about it and have a conversation without cracking jokes after every phrase trying to look fun or smart or thinking if it’s politically correct/incorrect/if they are going to be sued/how they are going to be seen, etc.
-The conversations are normally on a deeper level than a small talk and a couple of jokes. People on average are more educated, curious and open to the new information.
-People read a lot, you can see a lot of readers in subway.
-You can wear high heels and pretty coats and dresses without being afraid of looking overdressed.
-You actually have the places where to wear the beautiful clothes you have.
-It’s a poor taste to look fake.
-People are obsessed with the use of  natural, herbal and organic products.
-Still a  lot of superstitions, but more people put their pictures and pictures of their family and children in the social network.
-Cashiers in grocery stores have chairs so they don’t have to stand the whole day.
-Anticommercial and using a negative description of another company’s product in mass-media is illegal and unadvisable.
-Calling people names is officially illegal and is not seen as a freedom of a word.
-It’s advisable to look friendly and polite, it’s weird to look artificially overexcited and smile non-stop when you work in customer service.
Now about the changes:
-More cars (I mean a lot more cars.)
-More shopping malls.
-More restaurants and cafes.
-More country houses, the cities and towns are growing fast.
-More people who have traveled abroad and can afford traveling abroad.
-Salaries are higher
-Prices are higher, too, condos and houses’ prices are growing very fast
-More new roads build to reduce traffic, but the old roads especially in the suburbs are still in a bad condition
-New laws on driving, smoking, drinking, taxi services.
-Militia is police now
-The police just gives you a ticket/the conversation is recorded.
-More stuff for people with disabilities
-More schools or different kinds, if before you had to look through the newspaper looking for a private teacher now you have all kinds of schools offering private teachers, too.
-People are friendlier. Even if they act in a rude way and you answer not with aggression but with a smile or say sorry and treat them well they normally smile back, say sorry, too and treat you well, too.
-Service is getting better, in many offices they record the conversation or have video cameras.
-People have video cameras installed on their cars.
-“Digital lines” in offices or different kinds.
-More fitness clubs/swimming pools/stadiums
-More people interested in sport and sporting events
-More people are using debit cards in stores.
-More Russian-made movies and shows on TV, foreign ones are normally shown after 10 pm
-More TV and radio channels.
That’s what I remember right now. I may remember something later.

Please, don't take it too close too heart and don't be offended, these are just some personal observations and a personal point of view, not absolute truth.

[Muzh]

It is pretty obvious that you seem to have a problem with such cases, present here or not.

Oh boy Shadow, you are so way off the mark.

[Muzh]

Vasilisa, I would never take it wrong nor be offended. You were describing home.

[calmissile]

Dude, you really are daft, aren't you?
 
GOB

Yea, I guess so.  I 'm not a hillbilly so not accustomed to such language.
Now can you answer the simple question without being sarcastic?

[GoodOlBoy]

Please, don't take it too close too heart and don't be offended, these are just some personal observations and a personal point of view, not absolute truth.

Not at all Vasilisa!
Please, keep it coming.
Your post only reinforces my belief that one day (in the not so distant future), this whole FSU MOB thing will be over (as far as Russia goes).
You will notice that most of the sleazy agencies, socials, sex tours, etc. are operating mostly now out of Ukraine.
As far as some of the other poorer FSU countries and the "stans", well the ladies may be jumping ship for years to come looking for some place better to live.
But once their economies catch up with Russia.........
 
GOB

[Vasilisa]

It's good to see you back at RWD Vasilisa!

Like Gator, I also would be interested in hearing more about your personal story rather than RW in general.

Especially in light of how you painted RW with such a broad brush:

"These women on international dating websites are not looking for a soul mates, they are looking for more than that...
 better life, better job, better country, more money, better sex, BETTER anything."

In a thread discussing MOB'ers (men)
GQBlues was quick to distance himself from the average MOB'er, claiming he is not an average/typical MOB'er.

He went so far as to say ""I believe I'm different than the whole lot of you."

Vasilisa would you consider yourself different from the 'typical MOB' (Mail Order Bride) that you described in your opening post?That is, did you come to America because you were looking for your soulmate and not looking for BETTER this or that?

I was expecting to see this question when I was starting the thread.
 
No, I don't consider myself to be different. I am just stupid. I didn't meet my husband through an agency or a website, we met in real life, but still I considered my life and the life of people around me in Russia "too gray" and boring, I always wanted for my life to be different, brighter, better than average and when I met my future husband he was very optimistic, open-minded, smiled a lot, told a lot of interesting stories, spoke a different language, that was awesome!!!
 But I hadn't made  a good search in Russia before meeting him either.

 And guess what, it's not the country or someone else that makes your life brighter and better than average and you happy.