Lions and Tigers and Bears ...

[IAmZon]

I have tried in the past on this site to open a discussion on other countries in the FSU, albeit with rather little success.  Yet, we try here to discuss the Russian and Ukrainian in abstract terms from the general to the microscopic ... and then, we remind ourselves that generalization hold no bearing on the specific.   It reminds me of the Kingdom of the Blind.  In this place, the one eyed man is King.

So I would like to try one more time!  Does anybody besides me have any interest in Hungary, Poland, and Romania?   Life first, wife second (if at all).  I am considering Hungary for 2 months - Sept / Oct.  Hmmmm.

I was pleasantly surprised with Berlin. Loved Vienna - although that was a bit much.  Bratislava was charming (little trade up for economic reasons ... but, that is OK with me).   I made good friends in Ukraine.  I could return ... but the women in that country are dangerous to me  because I accept them as Princesses, even though they may be less.  And, there is the amazing amount of suspicion. Buzz Kill.   I do not have this problem anywhere else.  Russia is still a blank to me.  Have little interest at this time.

[Boethius]

I don't know much about Hungary, but I do know that Hungarian is a very challenging language to master, far more difficult than Russian.

[Anotherkiwi]

I have tried in the past on this site to open a discussion on other countries in the FSU...

So I would like to try one more time!  Does anybody besides me have any interest in Hungary, Poland, and Romania?

Your problem here, rivardco, is that none of these countries were in the FSU.     So of course nobody will respond on that level.  If, however, you refer to them as former members of the Eastern Bloc, you may have more success. 
 
On a more serious note, all have pretty women who welcome the attention of Western men...according to the websites, anyway!
 
Good luck.
 
P.S.  I've never been to any of them.

[mendeleyev]

The former Eastern Bloc countries don't always mix so well given that they were forced into the Eastern sphere of the Soviet Union, governed primarily by Moscow even though the national puppet governments tried to pretend that some sort of independence existed. Education and language were issues too via the forced learning of Russian.

As these countries had more Western help in emerging from the dark Soviet shadow, their economies generally advanced more rapidly and there was not the same motivation to move to the West to seek a better life.

[Faux Pas]

I have tried in the past on this site to open a discussion on other countries in the FSU, albeit with rather little success.  Yet, we try here to discuss the Russian and Ukrainian in abstract terms from the general to the microscopic ... and then, we remind ourselves that generalization hold no bearing on the specific.   It reminds me of the Kingdom of the Blind.  In this place, the one eyed man is King.

So I would like to try one more time!  Does anybody besides me have any interest in Hungary, Poland, and Romania?   Life first, wife second (if at all).  I am considering Hungary for 2 months - Sept / Oct.  Hmmmm.

I was pleasantly surprised with Berlin. Loved Vienna - although that was a bit much.  Bratislava was charming (little trade up for economic reasons ... but, that is OK with me).   I made good friends in Ukraine.  I could return ... but the women in that country are dangerous to me  because I accept them as Princesses, even though they may be less.  And, there is the amazing amount of suspicion. Buzz Kill.   I do not have this problem anywhere else.  Russia is still a blank to me.  Have little interest at this time.

My question to you is, can you function? There are few if any marriage agencies in those countries. No "shooting fish in a barrel". Salsa dancing is not as popular and your cash will find you the girls looking for cash. Can you find a sincere woman, are you looking for one or just sex tourism? I've no doubt you can find that in your business

[Shadow]

Hungary: Last time I visited anything outside of Budapest looked desolate. Doubt it has changed.

Poland: Never visited, but a lot of Polish are here to work. And that does improve their economy. You may find some lonely housewives as their husband is working abroad.

Romania: Never visited. As most professional beggars here are from Romania, economic leverage may still be present there.

[IAmZon]

Shooting fish in a barrel, opening up a stand selling kisses ... playing on the hopes of compromised - or ambitious - women is not my style.  I greatly prefer to meet people naturally, and it is much easier than most people assume =given a little time.  I prefer my relationships with women to be slow and a little challenging.

In my travels I have to say that I very rarely have been played, or taken advantage of by women seeking only financial gain.   I am sure it is because I am never overly aggressive (I think one night stands rank right next to masturbation), and it takes a special connection for me to give a shit - not so common.

I think there is a little devil and angel in every person.  Depending on the environments and external factors, it is possible for one to have a devil phase, or an angel phase.  Of course, some people become trapped in one character type: the sinner and the saint.  I think both are equally unattractive.

Language:  Russian is almost impossible to master (5 years), but it is very possible to negotiate - get around basically.  In most relationships broken English is the standard to communication ... with a little effort in the native language to show respect and interest.  It is amazing how much communication can occur in these situations (and how little too).

[IAmZon]

Shadow; where is "here"?

[Shadow]

Shadow; where is "here"?

'here' is Belgium and Holland. Poles are wanted in work like building and agriculture, the type of jobs that even with current unemployment the local citizens do not want to perform for the available wages.

And as much as the local professionals are whinging over the 'unfair competition' it is possible to find excellent craftsmen among them.

[noelscot]

I have tried in the past on this site to open a discussion on other countries in the FSU, albeit with rather little success.  Yet, we try here to discuss the Russian and Ukrainian in abstract terms from the general to the microscopic ... and then, we remind ourselves that generalization hold no bearing on the specific.   It reminds me of the Kingdom of the Blind.  In this place, the one eyed man is King.

So I would like to try one more time!  Does anybody besides me have any interest in Hungary, Poland, and Romania?   Life first, wife second (if at all).  I am considering Hungary for 2 months - Sept / Oct.  Hmmmm.

I was pleasantly surprised with Berlin. Loved Vienna - although that was a bit much.  Bratislava was charming (little trade up for economic reasons ... but, that is OK with me).   I made good friends in Ukraine.  I could return ... but the women in that country are dangerous to me  because I accept them as Princesses, even though they may be less.  And, there is the amazing amount of suspicion. Buzz Kill.   I do not have this problem anywhere else.  Russia is still a blank to me.  Have little interest at this time.[/

Japan might be an idea. Lots of business opportunities there and gorgeous ladies. I liked Russia better than Ukraine, but that is because I was in excellent company there.

[Ade]

'here' is Belgium and Holland. Poles are wanted in work like building and agriculture, the type of jobs that even with current unemployment the local citizens do not want to perform for the available wages.

And as much as the local professionals are whinging over the 'unfair competition' it is possible to find excellent craftsmen among them.

"Here" may as well be anywhere in Western Europe. The Polish migrant workers are everywhere and yes, it's possible to find really good workers among them - same with Lithuanians and Latvians - I had a couple paint my house a few years ago and they worked like crazy. I hope to get some to help put down a driveway in my new house this year.


I wish the Romanian gypsies would stay at home though.

[IAmZon]

OK ... what's the real deal behind this "gypsies" stuff?


classism against lower classes / less fortunate?  racism? or, is this really a large group of nomadic swindlers, liars, and thieves?

[JohnDearGreen]

The divorce rate in Poland is one of the lowest.  The single life must be pretty bad...  Or maybe it is the high rate of religious belief and complex divorce process.  I spent a couple of weeks there in 3 different cities.  The outdoors nature can be very scenic in some areas.  But the cold and wet season begins around November. 


Just like cities in the US, single life can get progressively worse as people get to 30 and older, and the small to medium cities probably have the worst singles scene. Which means some ladies there might be willing to consider a long distance relationship with the right person.  I would go for touring other medium sized cities in any of those countries, enjoying the outdoors, and staying away from the beaten path in places like Krakow/Warsaw.


Prostitution is legal, another reason to avoid Poland.  The first night I stepped out of the hotel door in old town Krakow, I was quickly greeted by a young lady in tight leopard skin pants making me some offer in Polish.  I would guess many FSU ladies go there when they are in need of making a few more honest zlotys.

[Ade]

is this really a large group of nomadic swindlers, liars, and thieves?

Yes, absolutely, many of them are unfortunately.


There are several documentaries describing the culture and what they do to their kids in the pursuit of their crimes - much of it is pretty horrific.


Here's one for you;

[Shadow]

Prostitution is legal, another reason to avoid Poland. 

[Boethius]

Roma have different "tribes", so to speak.  Some are musicians (think "Gypsy Kings"), some are artisans, some are ordinary workers trying to make an honest living, some are traders, some are beggars, and some are thieves.  The latter two ensure almost all face discrimination.

The pickpocket Roma children seen in all European cities are all forced to work, and are beaten if they don't bring in enough cash.  Most often, they are from Romania, but not always.   The most successful group of pickpockets plaguing the Paris metro for years was broken up by chance, and the leader is a Bosnian gypsy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9953305/Fagin-of-Paris-masterminded-citys-biggest-ever-child-pickpocketing-ring.html

[Boethius]

As these countries had more Western help in emerging from the dark Soviet shadow, their economies generally advanced more rapidly and there was not the same motivation to move to the West to seek a better life.

They weren't as destroyed as the USSR, they all had large diasporas which helped, and, unlike most of the USSR, they still had citizens who had lived in the country before communism, which are also all factors in why they advanced more rapidly. 

My vote would be for Budapest.  Anyone I know who's been there says it is a beautiful city.

[IAmZon]

Budapest it is, my dear:)


Life is a movable feast.

[JohnDearGreen]

My vote would be for Budapest.  Anyone I know who's been there says it is a beautiful city.

Budapest, City of Baths.  But I would need something more like the fountain of youth.  Also catch a thermal cave bath in Miskolc.

[Shadow]

Roma have different "tribes", so to speak.  Some are musicians (think "Gypsy Kings"), some are artisans, some are ordinary workers trying to make an honest living, some are traders, some are beggars, and some are thieves.  The latter two ensure almost all face discrimination.

The pickpocket Roma children seen in all European cities are all forced to work, and are beaten if they don't bring in enough cash.  Most often, they are from Romania, but not always.   The most successful group of pickpockets plaguing the Paris metro for years was broken up by chance, and the leader is a Bosnian gypsy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9953305/Fagin-of-Paris-masterminded-citys-biggest-ever-child-pickpocketing-ring.html

Do not confuse Romanians with Roma, even if they may be.

As Romania has joined the EU a number of criminal gangs has ventured in to the new territory. Not only begging, but also many ATM frauds, car thefts and other crime is within their territory.
After some art robberies the paintings were recovered in Romania.
These criminal gangs are not Roma, they are not nomadic and apart for their 'job' do not live in mobile homes.

[Boethius]

I didn't confuse them.  But, most of the Roma causing problems in the EU are from Romania, and Romania has the largest Roma population in Europe, followed by Hungary, Spain, and Bulgaria.  Some estimates put the Roma population in Romania at over 2 million.  There are whole "gypsy villages" in Romania, and plenty of mansions built with money pickpocketed in London or Paris.  Almost all those pickpockets are, indeed, Roma.


ETA - See the link.  It is from the Daily Mail, which is quite sensationalist, but this has been printed elsewhere, as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-510243/SPECIAL-REPORT-How-21st-century-Artful-Dodgers-making-Romanian-villages-rich.html


Here's a good blog description of Roma life.  This corresponds to what I witnessed in Ukraine, as well.

http://romaniawhatidontknow.blogspot.ca/2010/11/what-i-learned-about-roma.html


By census, Ukraine has fewer than 100,000 Roma, but estimates are there are over 400,000 Roma living there.  I remember the first time I saw a Roma, a boy, near the zoo.  It was during the school day.  I asked if the boy, who was dark skinned, was from Central Asia.  My husband laughed and said "No, he is a tsygan (gypsy)."

Roma in the USSR were forced to settle in villages, to give up their nomadic lives.  They were told by Stalin that if they stole, they would be sentenced to 25 years in the gulag.  Hence, by the time I arrived in Ukraine, there were no gypsy clans that survived on theft.  During so called "glasnost'", some were beggars (before then, they faced arrest for begging), renting children for a day as they sat at the top of a metro station, or pretending to be blind, or crippled.  They also used to trade (illegally) behind the market and stores on Khreshchatik.  My husband used to yell out "police" in Romani to watch them scatter. 

[Shadow]

I just want to emphasize that the problems with Romanian criminals have nothing (much) to do with Roma. Due to being nomadic, the Roma have been around in Europe long before the opening of borders, and their general behaviour is known.
Roma appearing in countries like Norway (where even the homeless look well groomed) is more due to the economic trouble in Southern Europe.
As someone in Argentina mentioned at the time fo the bank collapse there: the good thing is that all beggars disappeared, the no longer make enough money.

[IAmZon]

Upon a little review, Budapest looks enchanting.  It is hard not to notice that Hungarian women are attractive as are Ukrainian, Russian, ect...


As we have done, and do here, what are the social generalizations with Hungary?  The pros and cons ...  Do these observations really hold true for how people differ from one country, Romania, to another Hungary, for example.  These places are not so vast!  it is sort of saying that people in Georgia are this way, and people from Florida are this way ...


I noticed that people do not walk around with a smile on their face in the Eastern Block Countries.  I have noticed, as with Ukraine, that people's orientation are set to "anywhere is better than here mentality."  There are liars and sincere people in every place.  Some places are spoiled with excessive wealth -- a minority for sure, yet nevertheless. 

[Shadow]

What I learned from Hungary was that Budapest is everything. As a capital it has a draw of people from all over the country, and outside that city life seems to be pretty dull.
I visited apart from Budapest the third city of Hungary, which had a total of two restaurants at the time. Food however was good and (for our ideas) extremely cheap.

Budapest is like any metropolitan city, and probably what you will find there at this time will not differ much from other European capitals. It has its share of beautiful places and women. The 'get out ofhere' mentality will not be found a lot I suspect, which is all the better.

budapest, like Prague, has been used for sex tourism in the past, mainly from European countries as prices were low and enough women to be found. People may still be wary of foreigners approaching single women as a result of it.

[ML]

It is a waste of time to go to any of these Eastern European countries EXCEPT IF YOUR GOAL IS TO FIND BIG SELECTION OF SLENDER WOMEN.

Otherwise, you can find the very same women right here in your own  country(s).  All the BS about the other qualities is just that.

And then if you are able to snag a slender beauty . . . you have to weigh that against the continual hassles of getting her here and integrated into the local culture.

If my Gal weren't such an even keeled, very pleasant and enjoyable person . . . we wouldn't have lasted through the hassles the last couple of years.  And her acclimation has been relatively mild compared to what other couples have endured, in that  she had relatively good English coming in, did not have a child in tow, and did not encounter home-sickness.

Quite amazing that she smiles at me the first thing each morning, most of the day, and the last thing at night.  Never a bad mood.  These qualities are a lot more important than a beautiful face; although she has that also. 

And these qualities are in rare supply in women from Eastern Europe as we can see here on this board every day by the foul mood many of the married guys constantly display.