Russia-US relations

[lordtiberius]

You seem to think that I voted for that ambisexual fraud, or that I want a war in Syria, or or that I don't enjoy reading how a thug like Putin always manages to punk out the little twerp that cant.

Obama is not a rational actor.  He is not driven by morals or an understansing of national interest.  He is loyal to his ego, Marx and his Muslim faith.  He wants a war.

We cannot win this war -easily.  It wil take trillions we sont have, xould lead to wider regional, global, even nuclear conflicts.  Thoae that sit out this war will benefit. 

But dont paint Russia as an innocent defender of goodneas and juatice nc they are not.  They sold that crap to them.  Even if it is a false flag, Putin is complicit in Bashars crimes.

[calmissile]

LT,  Give it a rest!!  We know your points.  You are beginning to be as repetitive as GQ.

[Anotherkiwi]

Obama is not a rational actor.  He is not driven by morals or an understansing of national interest.  He is loyal to his ego, Marx and his Muslim faith.  He wants a war.

Why is it only you (and certain other members of this forum), and not the majority of US people who voted for him, that believes your President is a Communist Muslim?   Do you really think that all of those 100 million (or whatever) of your fellow citizens are so blinded by his supposed "feel good" image that they are unable to see the truth?
 
Also, just try thinking logically for a moment.
 
What's the biggest Muslim nation in the world?  Answer - Indonesia.
 
Where in the world is it?  Right next to the country where you were born.
 
Has Indonesia ever invaded the Philippines?  Or any other country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Islam?  Answer - Saudi Arabia.
 
Has Saudi Arabia ever invaded another country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Christianity?  Answer - Israel.
 
Has Israel ever invaded another country?  Yes (several times, and kept part of more than one of those countries).
 
So why on earth are you so paranoid about Muslims in general?  You're as bad as the McCarthy witch-hunts of the 1950s, and with just as much reasoning to back it up.  Of course there are bad Muslims - nobody, least of all me, denies that.  But there are just as many bad Christians who have done just as much damage around the world - you just don't acknowledge that your own religion has been responsible for so many atrocities over the years.
 
You also need to look at how many of your own citizens die from causes that are totally unrelated to Islam.  Last year roughly 34,000 people in the US were killed in vehicular crashes (I won't say accidents, because most crashes aren't).  Over 30,000 people died from gunshots, and even more died from poisoning.  Let's round off the numbers and say that 100,000 people died in the US last year who should not have.  Your country is needlessly killing the population of a medium-sized city every year within your own borders, yet your main worry is that your duly-elected President might have beliefs that don't match yours?  And that he might act in a way that you don't want or like?
 
OPEN YOUR EYES!

[jone]

Why is it only you (and certain other members of this forum), and not the majority of US people who voted for him, that believes your President is a Communist Muslim?   Do you really think that all of those 100 million (or whatever) of your fellow citizens are so blinded by his supposed "feel good" image that they are unable to see the truth?
 
Also, just try thinking logically for a moment.
 
What's the biggest Muslim nation in the world?  Answer - Indonesia.
 
Where in the world is it?  Right next to the country where you were born.
 
Has Indonesia ever invaded the Philippines?  Or any other country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Islam?  Answer - Saudi Arabia.
 
Has Saudi Arabia ever invaded another country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Christianity?  Answer - Israel.
 
Has Israel ever invaded another country?  Yes (several times, and kept part of more than one of those countries).
 
So why on earth are you so paranoid about Muslims in general?  You're as bad as the McCarthy witch-hunts of the 1950s, and with just as much reasoning to back it up.  Of course there are bad Muslims - nobody, least of all me, denies that.  But there are just as many bad Christians who have done just as much damage around the world - you just don't acknowledge that your own religion has been responsible for so many atrocities over the years.
 
You also need to look at how many of your own citizens die from causes that are totally unrelated to Islam.  Last year roughly 34,000 people in the US were killed in vehicular crashes (I won't say accidents, because most crashes aren't).  Over 30,000 people died from gunshots, and even more died from poisoning.  Let's round off the numbers and say that 100,000 people died in the US last year who should not have.  Your country is needlessly killing the population of a medium-sized city every year within your own borders, yet your main worry is that your duly-elected President might have beliefs that don't match yours?  And that he might act in a way that you don't want or like?
 
OPEN YOUR EYES!

It could be successfully argued that Israel did not invade other countries, but responded to invasions of it's own land.  Were the Israelis supposed to stop at their own borders and turn their swords into plowshares when they repelled invaders to their original borders?  Perhaps you would like to also argue that in 1948, the Yishuz illegally confiscated land from the Palestinians?

Israel is also home to Judaism and home to one of the most sacred cities of Islam. 

This part of your analogy does not exactly carry water.

[lordtiberius]

LT,  Give it a rest!!  We know your points.  You are beginning to be as repetitive as GQ.

Some of my best friends will fight this war that you want to ignore, should I turn my back on them too?

dont ever compare me to a unisexed sucubus.

I repeat these pts bc someone keeps accusing me of being an Obamanite.  Now with this crowd, you cannot dismiss false flag esp with John O. Brennan on the job.

Question to the d bag Obama zombies, General Clapper said Assad gassed hi own ppl.  do u believe him?

we know they sent Susan Rice with BS and lies, how do we know that John Kerry has not gotten the atooge treatment by Reggie Love's Lover Brother?

[lordtiberius]

So glad I was born in America and not your country, you clodhead.  You know nothing about my country and even less about the world.

Where do you think Abu Saayf gets its guns and butter?  I guess that part about East Timor was a rock concert that lasted too long?  Our friends the Saudis never invaded anyone but their money does . . .

Maybe you and the lil homo can practice kissing each other on the off chance you meet a woman

[cc3]

Saudis never invaded any other country  ? Check your history facts. Just how did the imperialistic politico-theocratic perversion of religion termed "Islam" ever become spread throughout the eastern hemisphere? It wasn't due to 1400 years of the peaceful tactics of necktie wearing, paired-up, bicycle riding 19 year old Mormon-like missionaries!

[lordtiberius]

in a lot of ways this is quite incestuous as the Assad family is married into the Saudi royal family and Prince Bandar who is supplying the rebels and now heads the Saudi intelliegence agency use ti be US ambassador

[SANDRO43]

Saudis never invaded any other country  ?

Technically correct, Saudi Arabia - and therefore Saudis - only came into being after WWI.

Check your history facts.

Apart from a small number of urban trading settlements, such as Mecca and Medina, located in the Hejaz in the west of the Arabian Peninsula, most of what was to become Saudi Arabia was populated by nomadic tribal societies in the inhospitable desert. The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was born in Mecca in about 571. In the early 7th century, Muhammad united the various tribes of the peninsula and created a single Islamic religious polity.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded by Abdul-Aziz bin Saud (known for most of his career as Ibn Saud) in 1932, although the conquests which eventually led to the creation of the Kingdom began in 1902 when he captured Riyadh, the ancestral home of his family, the House of Saud, referred to in Arabic as Al Saud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

[Anotherkiwi]

Saudis never invaded any other country  ? Check your history facts. Just how did the imperialistic politico-theocratic perversion of religion termed "Islam" ever become spread throughout the eastern hemisphere? It wasn't due to 1400 years of the peaceful tactics of necktie wearing, paired-up, bicycle riding 19 year old Mormon-like missionaries!

Not another one!  How did Christianity spread, cc3?  It wasn't due to 1400 years of the peaceful tactics of necktie wearing, paired-up, bicycle riding 19 year old Mormon-like missionaries either!

[lordtiberius]

Ade, you boyfriend is calling you.

[Faux Pas]

Why is it only you (and certain other members of this forum), and not the majority of US people who voted for him, that believes your President is a Communist Muslim?   Do you really think that all of those 100 million (or whatever) of your fellow citizens are so blinded by his supposed "feel good" image that they are unable to see the truth?
 
Also, just try thinking logically for a moment.
 
What's the biggest Muslim nation in the world?  Answer - Indonesia.
 
Where in the world is it?  Right next to the country where you were born.
 
Has Indonesia ever invaded the Philippines?  Or any other country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Islam?  Answer - Saudi Arabia.
 
Has Saudi Arabia ever invaded another country?  No.
 
What country is the home of Christianity?  Answer - Israel.
 
Has Israel ever invaded another country?  Yes (several times, and kept part of more than one of those countries).
 
So why on earth are you so paranoid about Muslims in general?  You're as bad as the McCarthy witch-hunts of the 1950s, and with just as much reasoning to back it up.  Of course there are bad Muslims - nobody, least of all me, denies that.  But there are just as many bad Christians who have done just as much damage around the world - you just don't acknowledge that your own religion has been responsible for so many atrocities over the years.
 
You also need to look at how many of your own citizens die from causes that are totally unrelated to Islam.  Last year roughly 34,000 people in the US were killed in vehicular crashes (I won't say accidents, because most crashes aren't).  Over 30,000 people died from gunshots, and even more died from poisoning.  Let's round off the numbers and say that 100,000 people died in the US last year who should not have.  Your country is needlessly killing the population of a medium-sized city every year within your own borders, yet your main worry is that your duly-elected President might have beliefs that don't match yours?  And that he might act in a way that you don't want or like?
 
OPEN YOUR EYES!

Islam is a violent, savage political and religious idealogy. How many Christians do you see strapping explosives to their bodies with the hope of killing innocent people? What is it you find in Islam that is so peaceful? Because you have neighbors and co-workers who are muslims and they haven't tried to kill you, yet?

[lordtiberius]

You cant win with these ppl uaing a fact baaed argument.  They arent rational.  They are part of the problem if not part of the enemy

[Mod7]

May I remind you "gentlemen" that certain discussions are NOT encouraged by the Rules of Conduct of RWD's Terms of Service, which you all signed upon joining thereby signifying your acceptance?

You agree to refrain from posting any ethnic, racial, religious, or political commentary which is not directly related to the theme of this site and/or which may be interpreted by others as being offensive or insulting.

Of late, some of you have also been indulging in another unwelcome activity:

You shall not post any message containing or otherwise use any obscene or offensive language

Please do not force me to slap Warnings - or worse - on repeat offenders .

[lordtiberius]

The discussion is about US Russian relations in the context of politics and religion

[cc3]

May I remind you "gentlemen" that certain discussions are NOT encouraged by the Rules of Conduct of RWD's Terms of Service, which you all signed upon joining thereby signifying your acceptance?
Of late, some of you have also been indulging in another unwelcome activity:
Please do not force me to slap Warnings - or worse - on repeat offenders .

Respectfully, are you giving guidance to us "gentleman" that we restrict our postings to only the subject of chasing women around the FSU?

[Ade]

Ade, you boyfriend is calling you.

Hey LT, you're such a typical christian.

[mendeleyev]

For informational purposes and hopefully not for mud slinging:

(Mendeleyev Journal)

On 31 August Russian President Vladimir Putin was in the Far Eastern city of Vladivostok where he toured several newly constructed facilities, including the new Ocean National Children’s Centre, as well as a hockey and sports complex under construction, and interior of the new Opera and Ballet Theatre.

This week Mr. Putin will travel to Saint Petersburg to host the G20 Summit.


(Vladivostok: President Putin spoke to Vladivostok residents at the new Ocean National Child Centre.)

In the evening before returning to Moscow Mr. Putin answered questions from members of the press. The topics included investment plans for developing the Far East of Russia, the upcoming G20 summit in Saint Petersburg and the subject of Syria and recent calls by the USA on a possible attack on Syria.


(Vladivostok: Press Conference with President Putin, 31 August 2013.)


QUESTION: Mr President, you have been on a working trip for almost a week now, to Siberia and the Far East. Is this occasioned by severe weather conditions and their consequences, or by something else?

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN: First and foremost my trip reflects the importance that Siberia and the Far East hold for Russia.
In general my trip was planned. But of course, after the well-known, difficult events triggered by floods and linked with flood control, we had to modify the agenda a little bit, and spend more time on precisely those issues.

And naturally I think that we did the right thing. A large number of Russian Government ministers have travelled here. And when they see with their own eyes what is happening on location, the difficulties that people face, then it becomes easier to take the necessary decisions, which are also more balanced.

I am sure that the decisions outlined here by almost the entire Government, the result of three days of work, are optimal. And you heard the figures; in general they have to resolve the main problems our citizens face. The most important thing is that all this be implemented on time, both quickly and well.


QUESTION: You mentioned the topicality of a trip to the Far East, but Syria is also very topical. Last night the British Parliament voted against military intervention, and some countries, including Germany and even the NATO alliance have expressed their negative attitude towards military intervention in Syria. Did you expect this – the British Parliament’s decision – and what do you think about it?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I will say honestly that it was a complete surprise for me. I think that in recent years all of us, myself included, have become accustomed to the Western community accepting everything without much discussion, or so it seems to outsiders, in accordance with the wishes and policies of their senior partner, that is the United States.

If this time something went wrong then I repeat: I did not expect this, and what’s more I’m even surprised by it.

On the other hand, this obviously speaks to the fact that in Great Britain, even though it is the United States’ main geopolitical ally, and, I think, in Europe too, even there are people who are guided by their national interests and common sense, and who value their sovereignty.

But above all this is also a conclusion drawn from what has happened in the past few years. I am referring to the tragic events that occurred in the Middle East and other countries too.

And despite the stated goals, achieving them remains very problematic: I mean in Afghanistan, and all the more so in Iraq, Libya and other countries. As for Egypt, we know what is happening there. So I think and am confident that people analyse events, draw conclusions and act accordingly.




QUESTION: Mr President, can you please tell us who you personally believe used chemical weapons in Syria? And can you give us your evaluation of the resulting situation there?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: We have been discussing this issue with our American partners. You know our position.

As regards the possible use of weapons of mass destruction – any weapons of mass destruction, including chemical weapons – our position is consistent. We are categorically opposed to them, we condemn them and, accordingly, if their use can be proven, we will participate in developing countermeasures.

With regards to this case specifically: as you know, the Syrian government already asked the international community to conduct inspections, as they believed that rebels had used chemical weapons. But unfortunately nothing happened. A reaction occurred only after [August] 21, when these weapons were used once again.

What do I think? Common sense speaks for itself. Syrian government troops are on the offensive. In some regions they have encircled the rebels. Under these conditions, the idea of giving a trump card to those who are constantly calling for foreign military intervention is utter nonsense. It is not logical in the least; especially when it [the attack] coincides with the day UN inspectors arrived.

Therefore I am convinced that [the chemical attack] is nothing more than a provocation by those who want to drag other countries into the Syrian conflict, and who want the support of powerful members of the international community, especially the United States. I have no doubt about this.

As for the position of our American colleagues and friends who claim that government forces have used weapons of mass destruction, in this case chemical weapons, and that they have evidence thereof: let them present it to UN inspectors and the Security Council. Claims that proof exists, but that it is classified and cannot be shown to anyone are beneath criticism.

It’s simply a lack of respect for their partners and participants in international activities. If there is evidence, they must produce it. If they don’t, then there is none. Allusions to the fact that there are certain communications intercepts do not prove anything, and cannot act as the foundation for making a fundamental decision like whether or not to use force against a sovereign state.


QUESTION: Recently you have had a lot of important telephone conversations with the British Prime Minister, the German Chancellor, and the President of Iran. And did you talk about Syria with U.S. President Barack Obama? And if so, what did you agree on and what didn’t you, and perhaps you would like to tell him something now?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you for offering your services as an intermediary.

Indeed, I have had conversations with the Chancellor of Germany, the Prime Minister of Great Britain, the Prime Minister of Turkey, and the President of Iran. Of course we also discussed this problem with the President of the United States during the G8. And by the way, at the time we agreed that together we would facilitate peace talks in Geneva, the so-called Geneva-2 talks.

The Americans took on the responsibility to bring the armed opposition to these negotiations. But I understand that this is a difficult process, and apparently they failed. But I have not had such discussions with Mr Obama in recent days, especially after new charges that the Syrian Government has used chemical weapons.

As for our position, it is well known. What can I say? I don’t even know. You know, I would first and foremost address [Barack Obama] not as my colleague, not as the President of the United States and the head of state, but as a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. We need to remember what happened in the past decade, and the number of times the United States initiated armed conflicts in various parts of the world. Did this resolve even one problem?

I already talked about Afghanistan and Iraq. After all, there is neither peace nor democracy there, what our partners allegedly sought. There is no elementary civil peace and balance. We must look at all this before deciding to carry out air strikes that of course will bring casualties, including among the civilian population. Is it not possible to think about this? Of course, I am convinced it is.

And what I would say to my colleague? In the near future we will meet in St Petersburg. I hope that the President of the United States will be among the [G20] participants, and we will certainly have the opportunity to talk in an expanded format, including about the Syrian problem.

Of course, the G20 is not a formal legal authority. It cannot act as a substitute platform for the UN Security Council, the only one able to authorise the use of force. But it is a good platform to discuss the problem. Why not take advantage of it?

Incidentally, with regards to U.S. interests: even in the U.S., look at the American media, and pay attention to what politicians and experts say. People evaluate different instances of military intervention differently. For example, most analysts are now inclined to think that intervention in Iraq was a mistake. But if we admit that there were mistakes in the past, why should the prospects [of an intervention] be considered infallible now?

All this should make us think about why we must not rush into such decisions. And is it in the interests of the United States to once again flaunt the international security system, and violate the fundamentals of international law? Will it strengthen the country’s international prestige? Hardly.

We urge consideration before making decisions that clearly go against the opinion of the international community, violate the entire security system and, of course, have harmful effects for many people. Obviously, something must be done. But to hurry into these things can produce completely undesirable results.




QUESTION: Mr President how likely do you think it is that the Americans will strike? And what will Russia do if they deliver such a blow?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: How do I know? You have to ask them. I can tell you why this is happening and why it is being discussed.

You see, it is elementary for people who have been following the course of events. The Syrian government’s army is on the offensive. The so-called rebels are in a difficult position. They do not have the weapons that government forces do: they have no air force, no missile technology, no modern artillery or missile systems.

What can those sponsoring the so-called rebels and those behind these sponsors do? Provide them with military support. How? Fill in the missing link in their capabilities. You cannot simply give them airplanes and missile systems - it is impossible to teach them. There is only one way, and that is to strike yourself. If this happens, it will be very sad.

[mendeleyev]

G20 Summit in St. Petersburg:

The biggest news, or perhaps it isn't big news after all, is that there are no private meetings scheduled for President Putin and his American counterpart, Mr. Obama. The two are not exactly on speaking terms at the moment after Mr. Obama publicly characterized the Russian leader as a slouch…looking like that bored schoolboy in the back of the classroom, when asked at an American news conference about the awkward body language between the two leaders. The Obama comments infuriated the Russian president.



Hermitage/Winter Palace. (photo: Svetlana Korobova)

For readers who will be in Saint Petersburg this week, give yourself a lot of extra time for moving about the city as security will be high for the G20 Summit for which President Putin will be the presiding host. Anytime you take 20 of the world's top leaders, plus their invited guests from developing countries, and put them into a compact city there will be delays in traffic, some pedestrian areas restricted and certain sites of tourist interest may be closed or operating at reduced hours.

Mr. Putin arrived today (Monday) along with the Finance Ministers from each G20 nation for agenda meetings and the official sessions with World Leaders beginning on Thursday, 5 September.

[Mod7]

Respectfully, are you giving guidance to us "gentleman" that we restrict our postings to only the subject of chasing women around the FSU?

Of course not, several threads in this Forum are not about 'chasing women around the FSU', e.g. those in the Odds and Ends board. I should also have highlighted the end of the sentence.

You agree to refrain from posting any ethnic, racial, religious, or political commentary which is not directly related to the theme of this site and/or which may be interpreted by others as being offensive or insulting.

I think you get my meaning by simply reading how this discussion has degenerated into an acrymonious catfight recently .

[Mod7]

The discussion is about US Russian relations in the context of politics and religion

You have it partly backwards. Current US-Russian relations involve politics, economy, etc. etc. not specifically religion - you want to force your pet views repeatedly into it.

[lordtiberius]

You have it partly backwards. Current US-Russian relations involve politics, economy, etc. etc. not specifically religion - you want to force your pet views repeatedly into it.

So let me break it down for you

1.  War in Syria
2. Russia involved
3. US involved
4.  Syria is the Middle East
5.  the Middle East is the home of 3 of the dominant religions
6.  People in the Middle East are religious

 

[Mod7]

Syllogisms were the favorite discussion tools of the Sophists, but yours is a bit Silly and not at all Sophisticated .

By the same token, one could argue that deserts are  relevant to US-Russian relations, since all the countries you mention have them .

[Muzh]

I see the clown has been spanked again.

[cc3]

May I remind you "gentlemen" that certain discussions are NOT encouraged by the Rules of Conduct of RWD's Terms of Service, which you all signed upon joining thereby signifying your acceptance?
Of late, some of you have also been indulging in another unwelcome activity:
Please do not force me to slap Warnings - or worse - on repeat offenders .

@Mod7, the following quote from your above post was not included when I clicked the "Quote" button:

Quote

   " You agree to refrain from posting any ethnic, racial, religious, or political commentary which is not directly related to the theme of this site and/or which may be interpreted by others as being offensive or insulting."

In accordance with this quoted term of service the entire thread of "Russia-US relations" should be deleted or banned, because the subject matter is entirely tied up in ethnic, racial, religious, and political matters, with no relationship to the theme of this site, i.e., pursuing heterosexual relationships with Russian (FSU) women.