Russia-US relations

[mendeleyev]

The Mendeleyev Journal today:

Moscow Mayor, then acting mayor, then mayor-elect Sergei Sobyanin is now again just the Mayor of Moscow. Truthfully, he was all the time but Sergei Sobyanin was officially inaugurated into his old/new post on Thursday at 6:00 p.m. in Moscow’s Great Patriotic War Museum. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Election Commission Chairman Valentin Gorbunov officiated the ceremony.


President Putin (c) and Mayor Sobyanin (r).

Sobyanin had called for a snap election in June, a move that left opposition candidate almost no preparation time to mount campaign. Many observers said that the sudden election was to prove that Alexei Navalny who had announced his intention to run in a future election had no real political clout or backing.

The election was a surprise however as Sobyanin managed to gather just over 51 percent of the vote in Sunday’s ballot, almost throwing the election into a runoff between the two highest candidates.


Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill attended the ceremony.

A most city court threw out candidate Sergei Navalny's demand for a recount and so the inauguration proceeded Thursday inside the Hall of Glory at the Great Patriotic War Museum on Poklonnaya Gora,

[lordtiberius]

Even with a rigged election, yes, he did garner a majority of the voters who had no clear alternative.

You must remember that the Russia that refused to obey the British blockade and threatened war with England while continuing to supply the Colonies, the Russia that was our close ally up until the Bolshevik power grab, the same Russia that again thwarted English claims to parts of Northern California by delivering Russia's claims on parts of Northern California to an expanding USA, is the Russia you so sincerely wish to hate.

Again, you have read Mr. Putin's letter thru dark glasses and failed to see that while he has again outsmarted a feeble American leader, he has also given the American people a voice in whether or not we go to war-again. Without that, the Feeble-in-chief would almost certainly bypass a Congress divided and gotten us into another mess we couldn't handle.

She had a brief period of brutal socialism, and a return is never smooth or uneventful, but a normal Russia is coming back. Stop the hate.

You first.

Are you even American?  I don't know anymore.

It's hard to take lectures from a man who NOW routinely insults the graves of my dead friends and my country.  There is no greater insult.  GQBlues, Muzh, and Ade called me dumb, fat and some kind of weirdo (all of which are true to a decree.)  But they NEVER insulted my country or the sacrifices of my fellow soldiers.

If a war comes, right or wrong, we are going to win.  Putin has not forgotten that.  But you have.  You want me on your side.  STOP WITH THE INSULTS

[lordtiberius]

The Mendeleyev Journal today:

Moscow Mayor, then acting mayor, then mayor-elect Sergei Sobyanin is now again just the Mayor of Moscow. Truthfully, he was all the time but Sergei Sobyanin was officially inaugurated into his old/new post on Thursday at 6:00 p.m. in Moscow’s Great Patriotic War Museum. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Election Commission Chairman Valentin Gorbunov officiated the ceremony.


President Putin (c) and Mayor Sobyanin (r).

Sobyanin had called for a snap election in June, a move that left opposition candidate almost no preparation time to mount campaign. Many observers said that the sudden election was to prove that Alexei Navalny who had announced his intention to run in a future election had no real political clout or backing.

The election was a surprise however as Sobyanin managed to gather just over 51 percent of the vote in Sunday’s ballot, almost throwing the election into a runoff between the two highest candidates.


Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill attended the ceremony.

A most city court threw out candidate Sergei Navalny's demand for a recount and so the inauguration proceeded Thursday inside the Hall of Glory at the Great Patriotic War Museum on Poklonnaya Gora,

sham election

who cares?

how about the political prisoners?  Why don't you do the stories about the faceless people who don't even have any names?

[Daveman]

I reject the premise of your question. 

Blind allegiance is simply that -- blind.

But whatever, let's take your rosy assessment at face value, sometimes it's not what's said but who's saying it.  Putin maybe a good man.  You wouldn't know it by the way he treats his enemies.  For him to be the apostle of peace, freedom and democracy over the dead bodies of Georgians, Chechens and others who say 'I disagree' is a specious point, that I may have allowed if he didn't use his last paragraph to run down my country sir.

I'm (far more) concerned about the U.S.A. and the actions of our own administration(s) than with Putin. I'm merely curious as to what it is in that particular quote, which you posted, you find disagreeable.

I am the last person to defend Obama.  The guy will sooner stab me in the back as I turn to defend him.  But he's still an American.  And where I come from that still means something.  What's it mean for you?

It means --- "“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

[lordtiberius]

Blind allegiance is simply that -- blind.



I'm (far more) concerned about the U.S.A. and the actions of our own administration(s) than with Putin. I'm merely curious as to what it is in that particular quote, which you posted, you find disagreeable.


It means --- "“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

If you are going to throw around insults sir, you better be able to take it.

 As far as I am concerned, this guy should have been impeached for Fast and Furious but guess what?  In a democracy, majority rules.  Funny thing about that.

You may be inured to taking orders from Russians, but for myself there's something's that are more important

[Daveman]

If you are going to throw around insults sir, you better be able to take it.

Where exactly was the 'thrown insult'?  Perhaps you should define "insult" so we are on the same page.

As far as I am concerned, this guy should have been impeached for Fast and Furious but guess what?  In a democracy, majority rules.  Funny thing about that.

Yes, but luckily the USA isn't a democracy.


The USA is a democratic republic, which means the 'majority rule' cannot supersede the inalienable rights of the minority.
[size=78%] [/size]

You may be inured to taking orders from Russians, but for myself there's something's that are more important

You've lost me here.. has undiscovered evidence emerged that Russians drafted and ratified the U.S. Constitution?

[GQBlues]

Somewhere in these pages, or maybe on another 'like' thread, I had given Putin credit for picking the leadership gap in the Syrian crisis. What I do not believe is cool was to do what he had just done.

Maybe he's taken a cue from Ahmadinejad, wherever that moron is today, hawking for an overdue payback. Remember when Obama called on the Iranian citizenry to rise up against their oppressive ruler?

Be that as it may, I can't help but get this eery feeling reading this co-ep from Putin. To cite the ideals of the UN Charter seem rather out of place for him. It closely hovers to hypocrisy.

The genesis of the UN charter was borne from the Atlantic Charter's 8 points, and with the ratification of the USSR, China & France during and after the war (inc. US & UK *the Allies* - and are the countries representing the UNSC today), that charter eventually became The United Nations.


The Atlantic Charter was an agreement between the United States of America and Great Britain that established the vision of Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill for a post-World War II world. One of the interesting aspects of the charter that was signed on August 14, 1941 was that the United States of America was not even a part of the war at the time. However, Roosevelt felt strongly enough about what the world should be like that he put forth this agreement with Winston Churchill. The Atlantic Charter can be boiled down to eight points:

They were:

• The United States And Great Britain agreed to seek no territorial gains as a result of the outcome of World War II.
• Any territorial adjustments would be made with the wishes of the affected people taken into consideration.
• Self-determination was a right of all people.
• A concerted effort would be made to lower trade barriers.
• The importance of the advancement of social welfare and global economic cooperation were recognized as important.
• They would work to establish freedom from fear and want.
• The importance of freedom of the seas was stated.
• They would work towards postwar disarmament and the mutual disarment of aggressor nations.

This was a bold step on the part of the Great Britain and the United States. As stated it was very significant for the United States because they were not yet involved in World War II. The impact of the Atlantic Charter can be seen in the following ways:

• The Allied nations agreed to the principles of the Atlantic Charter thus establishing a commonality of purpose.
• The Atlantic Charter was a significant first step towards the United Nations.
• The Atlantic Charter was perceived by the Axis powers as the beginnings of a United States and Great Britain alliance. This had the impact of strengthening the militaristic government in Japan.
• Though the Atlantic Charter pledged no military support for the war in Europe it had the impact of signaling the United States as a major player on the world stage. This was a position that the United States would firmly hold after World War II in its efforts to rebuild a war torn Europe.

Consider the manner in which both China and Russia had conducted itself since the inception of the UN. Consider for a minute the manner in which every country in the Security Council had conducted itself since the ratification of the United Nations, keeping in mind the underlying ideals that caused the formation of this Charter, and one that seeded it.

Take note of the Charter 8-points, then think of each individual country within the council and ask yourself if each one held these ideals to it's truest intent since the ink dried.

I say pot meet kettle.

[SANDRO43]

I'm suddenly reminded of the organetti that toured our streets when I was a kid, on carts drawn by their grinders or some family member. Maybe because one would always hear the same tunes being played over and over ?

[mendeleyev]

LT, freedom is won and re-won every generation.

One of the first steps is to recognize when there is a problem.

The next step is to call it out.

[onus]

Putins letter leaves me confused. I do have to agree with him on the contents.

But, the end is whats getting me. I'm not a huge fan of the bastardization we have now a days of American exceptionalism.

I just don't know why he wants to discredit us for trying to be good people. Not that bombing a country does that but, in general terms.

We may not be different and i know we are not. But, why should we stop an idea that is only positive in general.

I always thought of Putin was a sort of forthcoming guy. Sure maybe i don't agree with his policies but they never seemed to be hidden or obscured. That has to be worth something.

We could use some of that around here.

Anyway, I am glad we are not bombing Syria. I think our own house needs to be put in order first. I have hope that we can.

[Faux Pas]

Putins letter leaves me confused. I do have to agree with him on the contents.

But, the end is whats getting me. I'm not a huge fan of the bastardization we have now a days of American exceptionalism.

I just don't know why he wants to discredit us for trying to be good people. Not that bombing a country does that but, in general terms.

We may not be different and i know we are not. But, why should we stop an idea that is only positive in general.

I always thought of Putin was a sort of forthcoming guy. Sure maybe i don't agree with his policies but they never seemed to be hidden or obscured. That has to be worth something.

We could use some of that around here.

Anyway, I am glad we are not bombing Syria. I think our own house needs to be put in order first. I have hope that we can.

Dude, Putin is KGB in it's purest form. Everything about him is hidden and agenda driven. Putin seized a moment. It's beginning to look more like set a trap and waited for the sucker to land in it and he has.

I too agree with Putin's words but I don't for a minute believe he has Syria, the U.S. or peace in the world as his driving force. Far, far from it

[mendeleyev]

Which European nation refused to heed the English blockade and continued to supply the Colonies during the revolutionary war?  Russia 

Who was America's closest ally during the war of 1812?  Russia

In 1832, who became the first nation to gain "most favored nation" trading status from the USA?  Russia

Russia had just freed their own Serfs when the US Civil war began. Which Navy sailed squadrons of ships into New York and San Francisco with supplies for the North in 1863?  Russia 

Do you remember the classic “Flight of the Bumblebee” written by Russian composer Nikolai  Rimsky-Korsakov? He composed that masterpiece based on his experience as a sailor in the Russian Navy when the Russians came with supplies to America, writing home to his family that “I’m bored and hear buzzing all the time.”

(Thanks to Russia Beyond the Headlines)

[mendeleyev]

[GQBlues]

So the majority of the US public disagree with him, the congressional houses disagree with him, Putin just made a mockery of him, Assad just dispensed of him; so what other option does Obama have left other than the faux roman columns?

Who you gonna call? JOE BIDEN!!!

I hope now the majority Americans understand the error of their ways. We have three more years of this circus.

[Faux Pas]

So the majority of the US public disagree with him, the congressional houses disagree with him, Putin just made a mockery of him, Assad just dispensed of him; so what other option does Obama have left other than the faux roman columns?

Who you gonna call? JOE BIDEN!!!

I hope now the majority Americans understand the error of their ways. We have three more years of this circus.

One can only pray we last that long

[GQBlues]

Forget Syria...

Let's instead hit Russia with *an unbelievably small military strikes* for these crimes against humanity....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/russian-law-gay-parents-children

I thought the Russian state was vehemently against any state taking children away from their parents?

[mendeleyev]

We'll move the regular Russian language lesson here this time as the topic fits and someday this tired thread will be forgotten and posting the photo in the language thread without context might leave new readers wondering about the purpose.


 


российский сыр = Russian cheese.
сделано в россия = Made in Russia.

[lordtiberius]

what a peaceful people

[mendeleyev]

How are those Russian language lessons coming?   

[lordtiberius]

classy

[LiveFromUkraine]

classy

Do you have tourettes?

[mendeleyev]

So as not to upset anyone, rather than posting my comments in the World Affairs Journal today, here is a link to the MJ: http://wp.me/peVMt-2VG

Those who'd like to read may, and those who wouldn't are free to move about the forum unbothered. 

[GQBlues]

Mendy-

Maybe you'll agree, or maybe you won't, but let's face reality here a bit.

While I submitted Obama fumbled this crisis pretty darn bad (like no other past president had done before him with the likely exception of Carter) but Putin's interest in this latest crisis is hardly 'humanistic' either. This is sheer politics. I took his op-ed as nothing more than corrupt leader of a dying nation looking for some significance.

It's downright ridiculous to even read his ending sentence...

"...We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal...."

The Lord's blessing?!? His administration is presently on a hate campaign against people in his own society who happen to be 'different'. The 2002 Nord-Ost siege hasn't been that long ago either. Putin as some sort of a 'humanitarian' is just plain silly. Matter of fact, he ordered not to disclose the type of gas he used to kill not only the attackers but his own people and keep it classified instead of divulging what it was so they can at least try to save some of his poisoned citizens' lives. Beslan is not too far out of that loop either.

Obama deserves every bit of hammering on this fiasco, but at the same token, Putin hardly deserves any credit for convincing Assad to give up what *Assad claimed he doesn't have, much less used, to begin with*.

[mendeleyev]

Of course much is politics, but still I find him a better humanitarian than the US president.

I don't find his opening odd given the audience to which he was writing, rather he was calling the bluff of some conservatives who somehow believe that Russia is the great bear of the North who will someday swoop down on Israel.

There is no question that the ascendancy of Putin to the world stage will hamper the home opposition which has been quietly but effectively transforming itself from loud street protests to more of a disciplined voter education and polling alternative opposition movement.

[lordtiberius]

Mendy-

Maybe you'll agree, or maybe you won't, but let's face reality here a bit.

While I submitted Obama fumbled this crisis pretty darn bad (like no other past president had done before him with the likely exception of Carter) but Putin's interest in this latest crisis is hardly 'humanistic' either. This is sheer politics. I took his op-ed as nothing more than corrupt leader of a dying nation looking for some significance.

It's downright ridiculous to even read his ending sentence...

"...We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal...."

The Lord's blessing?!? His administration is presently on a hate campaign against people in his own society who happen to be 'different'. The 2002 Nord-Ost siege hasn't been that long ago either. Putin as some sort of a 'humanitarian' is just plain silly. Matter of fact, he ordered not to disclose the type of gas he used to kill not only the attackers but his own people and keep it classified instead of divulging what it was so they can at least try to save some of his poisoned citizens' lives. Beslan is not too far out of that loop either.

Obama deserves every bit of hammering on this fiasco, but at the same token, Putin hardly deserves any credit for convincing Assad to give up what *Assad claimed he doesn't have, much less used, to begin with*.

+1

agree.  Putin won and is winning these rounds and will likely continue to win, but does he have to insult his opponents.  Every media outlet has picked up on the American exceptionalism so any goodwill to us is burned.  He wrote that to unalign countries like Brazil toward him - an alternate superpower to build a multipolar universe.  From your (M) point of view, because America is so debased and dangerous it cannot and should not be the lone superpower.  But of course, I disagree.