New guy looking for advice

[cheval]

Hello guys: I am new to this website, and am thinking about flying to Ukraine either in December or January.  I met a 41-year-old Ukrainian ( I am 51) woman who has never been married, has no children, and is beautiful of course off a free dating website. She speaks and reads English well and I rarely have to explain anything.  I contacted her first on the website, and I have never had one scammer on this website.  I have had 80% scammers on the paid websites (RussianCupid). I have talked to hundreds of women in the past five months that I have been searching and this woman seems special. 

I have talked to her by phone a couple of times but she says she does not know when she will be home on a given day because of her work.  She claims she is a tour guide and sometimes has to give tours at night.  This makes me suspicious of course, but she says she can only work five months a year which ends in October and then we can talk by phone.  She cannot send lengthy emails either because all she has is a smart phone and the screen is very small to type on. 

Another thing that makes me suspicious is she rarely comments on things that are important to me. For example I told her I was going to be recording one of my songs with a professional studio, and she never wished me luck.  After my meeting with the studio CEO I told her they like my music so much they want  to talk to me about signing with their record label, again no response, no congratulations.  My gut feeling says so does not really care and it is not some kind of cultural difference.

I told her I might want to stay in Ukraine for a longer period of time and she asked why.  I said if we are not compatible then I will pursue other woman. She thinks I am concerned about sexual compatibility and said she would take care of me.  I said I never even though of that, but just general chemistry is what I meant.  She was angry and said I can pursue all the women I want, but she is not going to be part of a “fiancée casting”. I have learned one thing never tell them you are going to visit other women, just do it.  She wants me to meet her in Yalta because she has gout and it helps with the arthritic pain during the winter.   

I would rather meet in an area where I can meet multiple women, because I have read some of your stories and I don't want to just meet one and get burned.  I will probably just tell her I want to meet her somewhere in Ukraine and then we will go to Yalta if we are compatible.  If she throws a fit with my suggestion I will end the friendship now.   What do you guys think?  Where is a good place to if she rejects me? What I mean by a good place is somewhere I can meet the largest amount of women without traveling all over.  It seems I am interested in women that all over the map.  Is Odessa a good place to start? 

[ML]

  Is Odessa a good place to start?

Odesa is the worst place to start, unless you want to be finished before you start.

And, you are pretty much finished with this first woman you wrote about.  Just depends on how much time you want to keep wasting by going about it wrong from the beginning.

Go to Starting Out section and read "Pursuing FSUW 101."
Then ask questions.

[Patagonie]

Her interest is not so high, you think that she is special for your but you don't look special for her.
she can be a guid, but asking you to start to call after october  . A real woman who likes you would like to  hear you as possible in any condition.

Considering your low level of connection, i would be surprise to know why you consider as special ? Any answer ?

You are cautious and this is good. Why don't schedule a travel for september all girls are in Ukraine this month ?

Avoid Odessa, Kiev also, St Pete and Moscow.

[Muzh]

Dump her sorry ass. Go to Odessa and find as many women as you can. You will definitely find one.

[pokerintherear]

You can do better

Stop,  Think about what you wrote.  Do you see how difficult she is making something that can be so simple?

This is a red flag. Move on. Men or woman who want to find a serious relationship find ways to to make it happen. She is making drama at the start of a possible relationship. It will only get worse. My guess is you were used to this behaviour from the past and think it is normal? You dated many woman who showed much drama. This is not normal!!

When you find a woman who is attracted to you and wants to genuinely get to know you it will be easy. You wont hear all the excuses. Try it.

[Muzh]

You can do better

Stop,  Think about what you wrote.  Do you see how difficult she is making something that can be so simple?

This is a red flag. Move on. Men or woman who want to find a serious relationship find ways to to make it happen. She is making drama at the start of a possible relationship. It will only get worse. My guess is you were used to this behaviour from the past and think it is normal? You dated many woman who showed much drama. This is not normal!!

When you find a woman who is attracted to you and wants to genuinely get to know you it will be easy. You wont hear all the excuses. Try it.

Specially those 18 yo dyevs who are dying to marry a 65 yo man. You'd be a young man to them.

[Hammer2722]

Yes, I'm quite sure Yalta will cure whatever ails her. Sounds like she only wants a free expensive vacation to Crimea from you. Don't waste another minute of your time with this one....move on.

[Hammer2722]

Specially those 18 yo dyevs who are dying to marry a 65 yo man. You'd be a young man to them.

Well, he does look much younger than he really is.....

[Faux Pas]

am thinking about flying to Ukraine either in December or January.
I met a 41-year-old Ukrainian ( I am 51) woman who has never been married, has no children
She speaks and reads English well and I rarely have to explain anything. 
I have been searching and this woman seems special. 

December or January is a longtime to attempt to carry on a romantic friendship. Why the wait?

There is most likely a reason she is 41, never married and no children that you just haven't discovered yet. Keep that in mind.

If she speaks and reads English so well, why are the two of you communicating so poorly? She should be very a tune to your music accomplishments, congratulatory and otherwise. Specifically interested in it if, it interests you. Are there any sharing of her interests and accomplishments to you?

Other than a pretty picture, what is special about her?

I have talked to her by phone a couple of times but she says she does not know when she will be home on a given day because of her work.  She claims she is a tour guide and sometimes has to give tours at night.  This makes me suspicious of course, but she says she can only work five months a year which ends in October and then we can talk by phone.  She cannot send lengthy emails either because all she has is a smart phone and the screen is very small to type on. 

*cough, cough* bullshit *cough*

Another thing that makes me suspicious is she rarely comments on things that are important to me. For example I told her I was going to be recording one of my songs with a professional studio, and she never wished me luck.  After my meeting with the studio CEO I told her they like my music so much they want  to talk to me about signing with their record label, again no response, no congratulations.  My gut feeling says so does not really care and it is not some kind of cultural difference.

I told her I might want to stay in Ukraine for a longer period of time and she asked why.  I said if we are not compatible then I will pursue other woman. She thinks I am concerned about sexual compatibility and said she would take care of me.  I said I never even though of that, but just general chemistry is what I meant.  She was angry and said I can pursue all the women I want, but she is not going to be part of a “fiancée casting”. I have learned one thing never tell them you are going to visit other women, just do it.  She wants me to meet her in Yalta because she has gout and it helps with the arthritic pain during the winter.   

I would rather meet in an area where I can meet multiple women, because I have read some of your stories and I don't want to just meet one and get burned.  I will probably just tell her I want to meet her somewhere in Ukraine and then we will go to Yalta if we are compatible.  If she throws a fit with my suggestion I will end the friendship now.   What do you guys think?  Where is a good place to if she rejects me? What I mean by a good place is somewhere I can meet the largest amount of women without traveling all over.  It seems I am interested in women that all over the map.  Is Odessa a good place to start?

You probably screwed the pooch letting that statement out of the bag there guy. If she actually is a good, honest and sincere woman, she isn't going to tolerate or deal with that well and why should she? My suspicion is that she isn't really into you and that is based on the mediocrity communication and quite honestly, it doesn't appear that you are that much into her either.

You are not shopping for a Ukrainian puppy here cheval. You've not been very good at juggling multiple women at home, have you? Seems you've started the communication with this particular woman with some twisted logic. Your compatibility pick isn't the only thing in play. Women in Ukraine need wined, dined and romanced just like all of the other women you have known do. You don't get any short cuts because you plan on traveling to meet women. Quite the opposite. My suggestion is to punt on this woman. Back up, regroup, learn some more and try again with less emphasis of doing it on the cheap.

[cheval]

Thank you guys for the advice without pulling any punches.  I said a few things that would upset any woman and that won't happen again. 

You can do better

Stop,  Think about what you wrote.  Do you see how difficult she is making something that can be so simple?

This is a red flag. Move on. Men or woman who want to find a serious relationship find ways to to make it happen. She is making drama at the start of a possible relationship. It will only get worse. My guess is you were used to this behaviour from the past and think it is normal? You dated many woman who showed much drama. This is not normal!!

When you find a woman who is attracted to you and wants to genuinely get to know you it will be easy. You wont hear all the excuses. Try it.

I don't like drama, my last American girlfriend was perfect, I just was not ready for marriage at the time.  I did have one drama queen and will try to avoid that type of woman at all costs.

December or January is a longtime to attempt to carry on a romantic friendship. Why the wait?

I had multiple women invite to stay with them, and this woman wanted me to visit her at the end of August, but my business is booming until the middle of December and I need to work.


There is most likely a reason she is 41, never married and no children that you just haven't discovered yet. Keep that in mind.

She said she has had many opportunities in her country, but the men are abusive and talk down to her treating her like a dummy.  She said she would rather be single than be treated poorly.  I thought it was a good answer, the same answer many of the woman I have spoken with give.

Specially those 18 yo dyevs who are dying to marry a 65 yo man. You'd be a young man to them.

I have had quite a few Romanian women in the 18-25 year old range contact me.  It seems that any Russian and Ukrainian women under age 37 that contact me are scammers.  I have had a few that are legitimate, but I know it won't work out so I am not interested. I do look to be in my earlier 40's because I do not have any gray hair yet, and I am a decent height (6') for these women that are taller than the average American woman. 

[Faux Pas]

I had multiple women invite to stay with them, and this woman wanted me to visit her at the end of August, but my business is booming until the middle of December and I need to work.

Then you likely should wait a "little bit" before pursuing a woman to meet. It's certainly not unheard of to carry on for 5-6 months before meeting but, often that kind of time frame tends to fizzle out a relationship before it gets started. The formulations and foundations of relationships with FSUW are not much different than their American sisters. Would you show romantic interest in a local woman online and wait 5 months to meet her? Is your business really that busy that you couldn't be gone for a 10-12 day stretch to meet the possible woman to spend the rest of your life?

She said she has had many opportunities in her country, but the men are abusive and talk down to her treating her like a dummy. She said she would rather be single than be treated poorly.  I thought it was a good answer, the same answer many of the woman I have spoken with give.

Possibly, because she is a dummy? Are all the men wrong or is she? You'll need to trust me on this statement; Russian/Ukrainian men are not all drunken abusive bums. More are not, than are. Probably about the same percentage of American men you know. I've been to Russia many times, I know a lot of Russians there and here. I don't know where all these drunk abusive Russian men are. Maybe they exist, maybe the numbers are exaggerated. I really do not know. In fact, I personally know more American men who have abused their wives than I know Russian men who do. Food for thought

[Doll]

Odesa is the worst place to start, unless you want to be finished before you start.

And, you are pretty much finished with this first woman you wrote about.  Just depends on how much time you want to keep wasting by going about it wrong from the beginning.

 

What's "wrong" from the beginning?

[Patagonie]

I think that it should be better to START writing, when you are sure to go.
This makes a huge difference.
Till this you are just a keyboard romeo. In ladies' eyes you have NO legitimacy. And i approve them.

You will be really MORE stronger with your ticket in your pocket.

[GQBlues]

...I would rather meet in an area where I can meet multiple women, because I have read some of your stories and I don't want to just meet one and get burned.  I will probably just tell her I want to meet her somewhere in Ukraine and then we will go to Yalta if we are compatible.  If she throws a fit with my suggestion I will end the friendship now.   What do you guys think? ...

I think you should do what feels comfortable with you.

If *I* told you I think you should call her a 'hag and an idiot' for even thinking of getting a free vacation on your dime - would you do it? Of course not. You know the gal and the dynamics between you two, thus you should know better than any of us where the approximate limits are with this/these woman/women. Yalta during the new year celebration can be a load of fun so I can understand HER logic. Can you?

As for meeting multiple women, you can take heed of the usual advice here not to tell women you're meeting other women, but for me - lying to a woman to suit your convenience/insecurity, one whom you're traveling halfway around the world to become your wife for, seem rather silly to me. But again, if that's who you are and are comfortable with it, then more power to you.

If you'd prefer to meet multiple women on your trip and the women doesn't understand that about you, to me it only means you're just not compatible and don't share the same logic in that regards. Remember, these ladies' pictures are on the sites, not yours, so chances are they're involved speaking/meeting with other men likely with far more numbers than you can ever muster for yourself.

If you've gone out and dated multiple women in your life before, and with frequency, then do that. But if you haven't, I suggest you don't attempt this at home. This is for professionals only. Simply, you wouldn't have the clue what to do and how to handle situations that will surely rise.

51 years old is VERY young, strictly based on the actual ages of the majority of WMs heading east to get squeezed, 60s seem to be about the 'norm' for MOB. Life stages and all that jazz.

[cheval]

Even though this woman claims she cannot talk until October we have been talking everyday (through Whatsapp & the dating site) for almost six weeks.  She also claims she stopped checking her emails on the dating site to focus on me.  She is telling the truth on that because it is easy to verify, and I verified it.  It does not mean she is not talking to other guys via her smart phone. 

I  decided to take the general advice and find someone else.

I think you should do what feels comfortable with you.


As for meeting multiple women, you can take heed of the usual advice here not to tell women you're meeting other women, but for me - lying to a woman to suit your convenience/insecurity, one whom you're traveling halfway around the world to become your wife for, seem rather silly to me. But again, if that's who you are and are comfortable with it, then more power to you.

I tried to be honest and she was not impressed, she said she wanted nothing to do with it.  Another woman (50 looked like 30) I had talked too for two month's figured out I was talking to other women and ended our communication.  Apparently she had decided she was going to marry me; I said am I supposed to be able to read your mind. I also said how can you want to marry me when we only talk twice a week.   She was going to visit me in September, and we were going to drive across America.  She said she was not talking to any other men only reading their emails and laughing (like I really believe that).  I told her I did nothing wrong, I am on a dating website and I am going to talk to other women.  I said we do not have a commitment and I would never make one without having dated in the real world.  After these two experiences with being honest I have decided it is better not to say anything about other women. I don't have a commitment with them so It is not dishonest to me.

Then you likely should wait a "little bit" before pursuing a woman to meet. It's certainly not unheard of to carry on for 5-6 months before meeting but, often that kind of time frame tends to fizzle out a relationship before it gets started. The formulations and foundations of relationships with FSUW are not much different than their American sisters. Would you show romantic interest in a local woman online and wait 5 months to meet her? Is your business really that busy that you couldn't be gone for a 10-12 day stretch to meet the possible woman to spend the rest of your life?

That is a good point about waiting five months in America, I went on a couple of dates from American sites in the past three weeks and yes it was just a few email exchanges and then we met. 

Possibly, because she is a dummy? Are all the men wrong or is she? You'll need to trust me on this statement; Russian/Ukrainian men are not all drunken abusive bums. More are not, than are. Probably about the same percentage of American men you know. I've been to Russia many times, I know a lot of Russians there and here. I don't know where all these drunk abusive Russian men are. Maybe they exist, maybe the numbers are exaggerated. I really do not know. In fact, I personally know more American men who have abused their wives than I know Russian men who do. Food for thought

Are you trying to piss me off with the dummy comment?  She is an extremely intelligent woman with a college degree.  I don't believe everything they tell me regarding Russian/Ukrainian men since I am only hearing their side of the story.

51 years old is VERY young, strictly based on the actual ages of the majority of WMs heading east to get squeezed, 60s seem to be about the 'norm' for MOB. Life stages and all that jazz.

I thought I already had one foot in the grave.

[LAman]

. 
 Another thing that makes me suspicious is she rarely comments on things that are important to me. For example I told her I was going to be recording one of my songs with a professional studio, and she never wished me luck.  After my meeting with the studio CEO I told her they like my music so much they want  to talk to me about signing with their record label, again no response, no congratulations. My gut feeling says so does not really care and it is not some kind of cultural difference.

 

So Cheval, why do you need any ones advice here? You know situation better than anyone here.

[Faux Pas]

Are you trying to piss me off with the dummy comment?  She is an extremely intelligent woman with a college degree.  I don't believe everything they tell me regarding Russian/Ukrainian men since I am only hearing their side of the story.

Not at all. What do I have to gain pissing you off? What do I have to gain posting any answer to your questions? Those are her/your words, not mine. I'm just attempting to offer you some guidance related to your questions. I don't tend to tell anyone what they want to hear unless it parallels with my experience. Take heed or not brother, that is on you.

[JohnDearGreen]

...  I will probably just tell her I want to meet her somewhere in Ukraine and then we will go to Yalta if we are compatible.  If she throws a fit with my suggestion I will end the friendship now.   What do you guys think?... It seems I am interested in women that all over the map.  Is Odessa a good place to start?

Sounds like a good plan.  Odessa might be a little warmer in January than Kyiv.  Just invite some of those women from the south and east sections of Ukraine to come to Odessa and meet you for a couple of days.  Avoid ladies from Odessa, except maybe to fill in any extra free time.

[cheval]

Sounds like a good plan.  Odessa might be a little warmer in January than Kyiv.  Just invite some of those women from the south and east sections of Ukraine to come to Odessa and meet you for a couple of days.  Avoid ladies from Odessa, except maybe to fill in any extra free time.

Is there something wrong with women from Odessa?

So Cheval, why do you need any ones advice here? You know situation better than anyone here.

I have been talking to Slavic women for about five month's and I just want to make sure I am not making any major mistakes. Most of the people here have way more experience in areas that I have not even experienced, like an actual trip.

[JohnDearGreen]

Is there something wrong with women from Odessa?

Odessa is a port city, with much drug traffic going through.  A larger criminal element, prostititution, drugs, AIDS, etc.  Maybe not as much an issue with ladies over 40. But you can read here what the environment was like in a similar Russian port city of Kaliningrad 15 years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/04/world/at-a-western-outpost-of-russia-aids-spreads-like-a-forest-fire.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[LAman]

Odessa is a port city, with much drug traffic going through.  A larger criminal element, prostititution, drugs, AIDS, etc.  Maybe not as much an issue with ladies over 40. But you can read here what the environment was like in a similar Russian port city of Kaliningrad 15 years ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/04/world/at-a-western-outpost-of-russia-aids-spreads-like-a-forest-fire.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Jeez, in my time in Odessa, maybe more than most here, never have I seen much about drug traffic going through there, not anything different than any other big city in Ukraine. Many times I hang out with locals in bars and clubs.............. then again I don't hang out with the lowlifes or hookers, maybe that is why.
The thing is, you find a city you are comfortable with and you will do fine!!!

[LAman]

Is there something wrong with women from Odessa?
 

I don't know...I know several guys that are quite happy, both here in US and  in Odessa.
If I followed what I read here, I would not have my close friends in Odessa, enjoyed the beaches, experienced night life in Arkadia and learned about the interesting history of Odessa.
Maybe it is the fact I carry a rabbit's foot , never step on lines, throw salt over my shoulder or say my prayer's...just haven't had a bad time in Odessa.

[cc3]

I don't know...I know several guys that are quite happy, both here in US and  in Odessa.
If I followed what I read here, I would not have my close friends in Odessa, enjoyed the beaches, experienced night life in Arkadia and learned about the interesting history of Odessa.
Maybe it is the fact I carry a rabbit's foot , never step on lines, throw salt over my shoulder or say my prayer's...just haven't had a bad time in Odessa.

I'm sort of stuck, in the short term, with Luhans'k, but my Luhans'k fiancee and I, having visited Odesa in May and L'viv in July, (first time for her in both), agree that they are, now, our two favorite cities in Ukraine (L'viv being first).

[JohnDearGreen]

.......... then again I don't hang out with the lowlifes or hookers, maybe that is why.
The thing is, you find a city you are comfortable with and you will do fine!!!

If anyone is interested in statistics, rather than ignorant comments, you can check out the various Ukraine cities on page 33 of this report.  Note this is just reported cases.  Most cases are not reported.  In 2000, most HIV in Ukraine was from lowlife.  Now over 50% is heterosexual.
http://s116768.gridserver.com/sites/default/files/content/pphg/triangulation/ukraine-triangulation.pdf