Putin in Ukraine to Celebrate a Christian Anniversary

[Muzh]

   By SOPHIA KISHKOVSKY

MOSCOW — In an apparent attempt to use shared history to make a case for closer ties, President Vladimir V. Putin attended religious ceremonies in the Ukrainian capital on Saturday to commemorate the 1,025th anniversary of events that brought Christianity to Ukraine and Russia.

At a reception in Kiev, the capital, Mr. Putin spoke of the primacy of the two countries’ spiritual and historical bonds, regardless of political decisions that often divide them. Relations have been rocky in part because of attempts by Ukraine, a former Soviet republic, to formalize its political and economic ties with the European Union.

“We are all spiritual heirs of what happened here 1,025 years ago,” Mr. Putin told church hierarchs at the Monastery of the Caves in Kiev, one of the holiest sites of Orthodoxy, according to the RIA Novosti news agency. “And in this sense we are, without a doubt, one people.”

Mr. Putin’s trip was also the latest sign of the deepening ties and common agenda of the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church.

The events last week commemorated Prince Vladimir of Kiev’s decision to convert to Christianity and baptize his subjects in 988, an event known as the Baptism of Rus, the founding of the Russian Orthodox Church, whose adherents include those beyond Russia’s modern borders. The anniversary has been the subject of lavish political and news media attention in Russia, where Saturday’s events were broadcast, reflecting the Kremlin’s embrace of the church and its spiritual leader, Patriarch Kirill I. The attention has also lent apparent endorsement to church criticism of Western democracy and secular culture, particularly homosexuality.

The patriarch presided over prayers on Saturday after arriving in Kiev on Friday accompanied by representatives of all of the world’s Orthodox churches and bearing fragments of a cross on which the Apostle Andrew is believed to have been crucified. On Thursday, Patriarch Kirill and the other church leaders met with Mr. Putin in the Kremlin, where they discussed the fate of Christians in the Middle East.

The cross, on loan from Patras, Greece, has already been venerated by hundreds of thousands on a tour across Russia sponsored by Vladimir Yakunin, the powerful head of the Russian Railways, who is close to Mr. Putin and the church.

Patriarch Kirill invoked the concept of the Holy Rus, referring to Russia, Ukraine and Belarus as a unified spiritual expanse united under the faith. Ukraine’s religious landscape has been divided for centuries, not least after the collapse of the Soviet Union, by tensions over allegiance to Moscow. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate is one of the largest parts of the Russian Orthodox Church, but other groups in Ukraine planned their own commemorations.

The patriarch has sought to unify the faithful with warnings of the encroachment of secular values. He recently warned that legislative efforts to legalize same-sex marriage in Europe posed a grave threat to Russia.

“This is a very dangerous apocalyptic symptom, and we must do everything so that sin is never validated by the laws of the state in the lands of Holy Rus, because this would mean that the people are starting on the path of self-destruction,” he said at a Moscow cathedral, according to the Web site of the Moscow Patriarchate. He previously said that such “blasphemous laws” could prove as dangerous to believers as the executioners of the Great Terror during the government of Stalin.

The church’s views have increasing resonance in the political debate in Russia, where Parliament adopted laws in June banning “gay propaganda” and the adoption of children by foreign same-sex couples.

In a film called “The Second Baptism of Rus,” shown recently on Russian state television, Mr. Putin credited Prince Vladimir’s choice of religion with “building a centralized Russian state,” something he sees as a cornerstone of his leadership. Mr. Putin recalled the story of his mother having him baptized in secret after his birth in 1952 because of Soviet repression of the church.

He described Communism as “just a simplified version of the religious principles shared by practically all the world’s traditional religions” and said that today’s turn to religion was “a spontaneous movement from the people themselves to turn back to their roots” in response to the ideological vacuum after the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991.

Ukraine’s president, Viktor F. Yanukovich, appeared beside Mr. Putin during the service on Saturday, though relations between Moscow and Kiev have continued to be marred by battles over gas pipelines and other disputes despite a widely held view in Russia that Mr. Yanukovich would be more solidly aligned with Russia.

Ukraine is scheduled to sign an association agreement with the European Union in November. While insisting that choices of international relations were Ukraine’s to make, Mr. Putin argued Saturday that Ukraine would fare better by deepening its political and economic ties with Russia.

On Saturday, Femen, the Ukrainian feminist group known for its bare-breasted protests, said three of its activists and a photojournalist were beaten and taken away by an “organized group of people” on the way to a protest of the celebrations. On its Web site, Femen accused the spy agencies of Ukraine and Russia of being behind the attack, though it did not provide evidence.

The Kiev police said they had detained three women for “petty hooliganism” after they refused to cover up when they were spotted naked on the street. The police Web site said a photographer who was accompanying them was detained for disobeying police orders. It did not talk about beatings.

Femen later reported that its leader, Anna Hutsol, was beaten up while in a cafe on Saturday night and her laptop was taken.


NYTimes   

[lordtiberius]

If Russia is sincere about peace, her own stability and her destiny, she will with Pope Francis and ALL THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS consecrate herself to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. 

there are now two abortions for every live birth in Russia, and the Catholic Church is still hemmed in by impossible legal restrictions. Catholic bishops and priests are not even permitted to become permanent residents, and can only visit that country for three months at a time. And, over the past several years, Russian President Vladimir Putin has erected a veritable neo-Stalinist authoritarian state in Russia — silencing all major media and hobbling his major political opponents with criminal investigations and indictments. New York Times columnist William Safire calls this "Putin’s creeping coup". At the same time, Russia is developing a whole new generation of nuclear missiles, which Putin promises will be unstoppable by any missile defense.

       As The Washington Post observed in late 2003: "We must now recognize that there has been a massive suppression of human rights and the imposition of a de facto Cold War-type administration in Moscow." In a recent statement to Congress, Republican congressman Christopher Cox told the truth that Fr. Fox never reports in his "don’t worry, be happy" magazine: "Russia does not enjoy an open, competitive political system that protects freedom of expression and association, and its government does not uphold universal standards of human rights." Russian analyst Nikolai Zlobin of the Center for Defense Information put it most simply: "We’re fighting a kind of new Cold War."

       Clearly, Russia is continuing to "spread her errors throughout the world"

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/opposed/cvrup3.asp

Pray for peace.  Pray for the Consecration of Russia

[The Natural]

I noticed that Putin publicly warned against the persecution and murders of Christians in muslim countries recently. That is much more than the roaring silence on this matter from the western politicians and press. Call him what you will, a former KGB operative, a tzar, dictator bla... bla...bla... but to me he sounds like a much more moral leader than anyone we have in the west!!!

[Muzh]

I noticed that Putin publicly warned against the persecution and murders of Christians in muslim countries recently. That is much more than the roaring silence on this matter from the western politicians and press. Call him what you will, a former KGB operative, a tzar, dictator bla... bla...bla... but to me he sounds like a much more moral leader than anyone we have in the west!!!

You are saying that because he look just like you, don't you? 

[mendeleyev]

The era of beatings appears to be back in Ukraine and my guess is that murders aren't that far behind. President Yanukovich was Prime Minister during the dangerous and dark days of President Kuchma so he learned from one of the Soviet's death masters.

A news reporter went to the building that houses the FEMEN office. There he met three ladies and they were to travel together to a location on Obolonska Avenue where the ladies planned to protest as Mr. Putin arrived. A taxi was waiting outside to take them to their destination.

They exited the building, full clothed, and were jumped by a group of police who had been in hiding.

As the police report says, FEMEN leader Anna Hutsol was arrested. She was beaten by police while being arrested. Contrary to the police report she was not naked. She was clothed.



The ladies from Femen were afraid that police had been tipped off to their planned location so they asked a reporter to come along as a witness. His name is Dmitry Kostyukova and he was beaten as well and his camera destroyed.



Dmitry was hospitalized but has been released and was fined for supposedly "resisting arrest" at the time. Another FEMEN member,  Oksana Shachko, was also hospitalized.

The current Prime Minister of Ukraine, Mykola Azarov, was Yanukovich's Deputy Prime Minister during the deadly Kuchma years and both of these men think little of human lives other than their own.

[mendeleyev]

Clearly, Russia is continuing to "spread her errors throughout the world"

LT, what you are confusing is a nation with a religion. Russia is home to many Christians, some of them Roman Catholic or part of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that are Orthodox in practice and doctrine (married priests, follow Orthodox doctrine, but ruled by the Pope in Rome), but of course the vast majority are Orthodox Catholic (non-Roman).

No she isn't. If you want to know which nation actively ties foreign aid to open abortion practice, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

If you want to know which nation claims to practice separation of church and state but whose state department funds Muslim outreach programs, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

If you want to know which nation leads the globe in export of pornography, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

If you want to know which nation is the largest arms dealer in the world, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

If you want to know which nation has banned religious training and activities in public schools, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

If yo want to know which nation invades other countries and aids Islamic rebels who kill Christian minority populations in those countries, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

While we're doing a quick tally of those things I've listed above, I'd be remiss if not mentioning that the USA has a significant Roman Catholic population but only a small representation of Orthodox.

Just sayin'

[lordtiberius]

The era of beatings appears to be back in Ukraine and my guess is that murders aren't that far behind. President Yanukovich was Prime Minister during the dangerous and dark days of President Kuchma so he learned from one of the Soviet's death masters.

A news reporter went to the building that houses the FEMEN office. There he met three ladies and they were to travel together to a location on Obolonska Avenue where the ladies planned to protest as Mr. Putin arrived. A taxi was waiting outside to take them to their destination.

They exited the building, full clothed, and were jumped by a group of police who had been in hiding.

As the police report says, FEMEN leader Anna Hutsol was arrested. She was beaten by police while being arrested. Contrary to the police report she was not naked. She was clothed.



The ladies from Femen were afraid that police had been tipped off to their planned location so they asked a reporter to come along as a witness. His name is Dmitry Kostyukova and he was beaten as well and his camera destroyed.



Dmitry was hospitalized but has been released and was fined for supposedly "resisting arrest" at the time. Another FEMEN member,  Oksana Shachko, was also hospitalized.

The current Prime Minister of Ukraine, Mykola Azarov, was Yanukovich's Deputy Prime Minister during the deadly Kuchma years and both of these men think little of human lives other than their own.

As one who would agree with that FEMEN is hooligan group, this type of violence is not democratic or Christian and only serves to buttress on morally dubious cause

Great reporting mendeleyev

[mendeleyev]

I am fortunate to be allowed access to reporting by those local Russian and Ukrainian men and women of media who are braver and much better than myself. Were it not for them, I'd be inconsequential.

[lordtiberius]

LT, with all due respect I'm praying that Russia will not be consecrated to the virgin in the way you describe.

What can be lost by doing so?  If Russia is a Christian country then a consecration to the Mother of God would be a long overdue, would it not?

LT, what you are confusing is a nation with a religion.

Am I?  Are you denying the Russian government's influence and co-option in the Russo-Orthodox church?

Russia is home to many Christians, some of them Roman Catholic or part of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that are Orthodox in practice and doctrine (married priests, follow Orthodox doctrine, but ruled by the Pope in Rome), but of course the vast majority are Orthodox Catholic (non-Roman).

Russia has only been home to Christians since 1992.  Further, that Russia has a Christian heritage is not question.  What is an open question is its relationship and treatment of Catholics in Russia.

No she isn't. If you want to know which nation actively ties foreign aid to open abortion practice, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

Is it true that Russia has more abortions than live births? 

If you want to know which nation claims to practice separation of church and state but whose state department funds Muslim outreach programs, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

You are of course referring to the regime of the dog eating Kenyan born Muslim sexually ambiguous President, correct?  If so what does it have to do with the consecrating Russia to the heart of Our Lady?

If you want to know which nation leads the globe in export of pornography, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

A consecration of Russia to Our Lady might help America as well . . .

If you want to know which nation is the largest arms dealer in the world, it ain't Russia my friend but you do happen to be living in the nation that does.

Russia's alliance with Iran, Syria, China and North Korea is regrettable especially in the light of the fact that Syria and Iran have blood on their hands in killing American soldiers.   But I think a consecration of Russia to Our Lady would help the cause of world peace, don't you?



http://www.romereports.com/palio/historic-meeting-between-pope-and-first-russian-ambassador-to-vatican-english-9930.html#.UftdqXCYkTs

[mendeleyev]

LT, Russian is celebrating 1025 years of Christianity. Granted there was the Soviet period and that should be subtracted but the matter of jurisdiction between churches is a genuine canonical matter.

As to Syria, this is yet another area where the minority Christian population (mainly but not exclusively Orthodox) has been protected, just as previously in Egypt. Now with Obama's Muslim Brotherhood types in a war, the non-Muslim minorities are being killed, not by the government that has protected them all these years, but by the Islamic rebels.

The USA has already committed to the rebels and the Benghazi cover-up was about arms movement from Libya to Syria. Thankfully CNN is finally beginning to cover the story because if only Sky/Fox did the story, some would dismiss it. Now with CNN it will not be dismissed as phony for much longer.

Just as Bill Clinton decisions resulted in the killing and displacement of many in the Christian minority in Bosnia/Serbia/Kosovo, we're doing the same in Syria...by proxy. Vladimir Putin understands Russia's historical role as the legitimate "Third Rome" replacing the old discredited Rome and the defeated Constantinople as the third centre of Christian Orthodoxy.

Russia as the world's largest Orthodox country by far, has historically guaranteed the safety of Orthodox Christians in this part of the world. Vladimir Putin has too much to lose by rolling over and playing possum for Hussein Obama on the question of Syria. Mr. Obama is not intelligent enough to understand that this is a cogent part of Russia's foreign policy. Russia has tried to explain it over and over to any US official who will listen but Washington has way to much wax stuffed up her ears these days.

I'm sorry that bad USA decisions have led to the deaths of US soldiers. I am more sorry however about innocent civilians who've been killed by radicals stuck in the dark ages all because our USA actions exposed the innocents to deadly harm. Soldiers are professionals and dying is a job hazard. Civilians are not trained soldiers and were you to ask me to chose between the blood of soldiers or the blood of innocent women and children....

Putin is right on Syria and the USA is wrong in thinking that toppling governments and giving radicals a chance to run Africa and the Middle East is somehow a good idea.

On the Syria issue I genuinely wish that the Russian military was of the might that it could boldly challenge the USA and force Washington to back down.

[lordtiberius]

 Russia should consecrate itself to the heart of the Mother of God.  That's all.  If not for her survival as a culture and nation, but as an atonement for the Soviet period.

[lordtiberius]

I looked up US and Russia birth rates.  Each country averages about 1 million abortions a year.  And in 2001, it was 2 million for every 1.3 million births.  Russia may never see war again.  But she will cease to exist and Putin knows it, if she does not reverse this trend.  Putin's party passed a bill to restrict abortions after the 12th week.  It is a good start.  But why not consecrate herself to the Mother of God?

[SANDRO43]

But why not consecrate herself to the Mother of God?

But why not ask Putin directly, and stop ranting here ?

[mendeleyev]

Putin's party passed a bill to restrict abortions after the 12th week.  It is a good start.

The Russian government is concerned about birth rates, my friend. That is why the government pays for pro-life ads on TV, pro-life ads in newspapers, pro-life ads on radio, and pro-life road billboards.

How is America doing on that score?

How about Italy?

[SANDRO43]

The Russian government is concerned about birth rates, my friend. That is why the government pays for pro-life ads on TV, pro-life ads in newspapers, pro-life ads on radio, and pro-life road billboards. How is America doing on that score?

How about Italy?

No pro-life campaigns here that I noticed. However, the Vatican's pro-life stance is pervasive, influencing our legislation both existing (e.g. re abortion, i.e. the doctors' right to refuse to do it due to their own religious beliefs) and under discussion (e.g. re the proposed 'biological testament', i.e. the possibility of stating one's intention to want/refuse continuation of life-support therapies if in irreversible coma or similar circumstances).

[The Natural]

Quote:
 
I noticed that Putin publicly warned against the persecution and murders of Christians in muslim countries recently. That is much more than the roaring silence on this matter from the western politicians and press. Call him what you will, a former KGB operative, a tzar, dictator bla... bla...bla... but to me he sounds like a much more moral leader than anyone we have in the west!!!
 

You are saying that because he look just like you, don't you? 

Oh, I set myself up for that one, didn't I? Maybe that's why I never got in any trouble on my trips to Russia and Ukraine, that I apparently look like Putin, hehe. Without the evil eyes as one commented a while back, good for me. But we both like to be bare-chested!

[lordtiberius]

The Russian government is concerned about birth rates, my friend. That is why the government pays for pro-life ads on TV, pro-life ads in newspapers, pro-life ads on radio, and pro-life road billboards.

How is America doing on that score?

How about Italy?

Irrelevant. 

America could fall in the sea and Russia would cease to exist because of demographics.  Russia has been through the evil of the Soviet.  Some cleansing is in order, would you disagree?  I wish you would address the question I am raising directly than to distract the discussion outliers and non sequiturs.

[lordtiberius]

I noticed that Putin publicly warned against the persecution and murders of Christians in muslim countries recently. That is much more than the roaring silence on this matter from the western politicians and press. Call him what you will, a former KGB operative, a tzar, dictator bla... bla...bla... but to me he sounds like a much more moral leader than anyone we have in the west!!!

Agree
 

Oh, I set myself up for that one, didn't I? Maybe that's why I never got in any trouble on my trips to Russia and Ukraine, that I apparently look like Putin, hehe. Without the evil eyes as one commented a while back, good for me. But we both like to be bare-chested!

Ignore that guy.  He's a douche

[The Natural]

The Natural:
Oh, I set myself up for that one, didn't I? Maybe that's why I never got in any trouble on my trips to Russia and Ukraine, that I apparently look like Putin, hehe. Without the evil eyes as one commented a while back, good for me. But we both like to be bare-chested!
 

Agree
 
Ignore that guy.  He's a douche

Who? Putin or me? 

[ML]

Quote from: lordtiberius on Today at 12:33:40 PMAgree
 
Ignore that guy.  He's a douche

 
Who? Putin or me? 

Rather than aspiring to be a douche; think like Prince Charles, who wanted to be a tampon.

[cc3]

LT, Russian is celebrating 1025 years of Christianity. Granted there was the Soviet period and that should be subtracted but the matter of jurisdiction between churches is a genuine canonical matter.

As to Syria, this is yet another area where the minority Christian population (mainly but not exclusively Orthodox) has been protected, just as previously in Egypt. Now with Obama's Muslim Brotherhood types in a war, the non-Muslim minorities are being killed, not by the government that has protected them all these years, but by the Islamic rebels.

The USA has already committed to the rebels and the Benghazi cover-up was about arms movement from Libya to Syria. Thankfully CNN is finally beginning to cover the story because if only Sky/Fox did the story, some would dismiss it. Now with CNN it will not be dismissed as phony for much longer.

Just as Bill Clinton decisions resulted in the killing and displacement of many in the Christian minority in Bosnia/Serbia/Kosovo, we're doing the same in Syria...by proxy. Vladimir Putin understands Russia's historical role as the legitimate "Third Rome" replacing the old discredited Rome and the defeated Constantinople as the third centre of Christian Orthodoxy.

Russia as the world's largest Orthodox country by far, has historically guaranteed the safety of Orthodox Christians in this part of the world. Vladimir Putin has too much to lose by rolling over and playing possum for Hussein Obama on the question of Syria. Mr. Obama is not intelligent enough to understand that this is a cogent part of Russia's foreign policy. Russia has tried to explain it over and over to any US official who will listen but Washington has way to much wax stuffed up her ears these days.

I'm sorry that bad USA decisions have led to the deaths of US soldiers. I am more sorry however about innocent civilians who've been killed by radicals stuck in the dark ages all because our USA actions exposed the innocents to deadly harm. Soldiers are professionals and dying is a job hazard. Civilians are not trained soldiers and were you to ask me to chose between the blood of soldiers or the blood of innocent women and children....

Putin is right on Syria and the USA is wrong in thinking that toppling governments and giving radicals a chance to run Africa and the Middle East is somehow a good idea.

On the Syria issue I genuinely wish that the Russian military was of the might that it could boldly challenge the USA and force Washington to back down.

+1000! Most eloquently stated. My nation, under its grossly ignorant, politically inept, politically correct, Islamic sycophantic Washington elitist leadership has become the premier traitor to Western civilization. It seems so strange to this Marine veteran of the Cold War that the leader of Russia has become the major champion of Western/Christian values. My national government embarrasses and disgusts me more with every passing day. The Second American Revolution is just over the horizon.

[cc3]

Russia should consecrate itself to the heart of the Mother of God.  That's all.  If not for her survival as a culture and nation, but as an atonement for the Soviet period.

LT, you need to somewhat rein in your proselytization fervor. We, on this forum, do not comprise an appropriate audience.

[mendeleyev]

 

I wish you would address the question I am raising directly

This one?

But why not consecrate herself to the Mother of God?

Pope Pius XII defined this as: "By our consecration we promise to become dependent on Mary in all things: to offer all our prayers and oblations to God through Mary, and to seek every gift from God through Mary. And we do this with the greatest confidence.  Since she is our mother, she knows our needs better than we; and since she is Queen of Heaven, she has immediate access to the infinite treasury of graces in the Kingdom of her Divine Son."

We Orthodox Catholics, like our Roman brethren formerly believed before the RC doctrine of Mary was developed and expanded, find that what Pope Pius describes above to be heresy. If you go back to the Third Ecumenical Council, when our churches were united, you'll find that the idea expressed above to be far different from what the Church of Rome teaches today. Rome has changed, not all the other Catholic bodies around the world.

The Immaculate Conception of Mary can be clearly dated back to the year 1896 in a Papal decree. The Orthodox reject that new doctrine and so there is no need for Russia to consecrate herself to something they view as errant.

Orthodox venerate Mary and honour her for who she was, but we do not find either in Scripture or Holy Tradition the idea that she is the mediator between God and man. The Orthodox see that as the job of her Son.

Now if you think that all nations should live in ways that seek to honour God, like expressed in the Beatitudes for example, then we have something to agree.

[mendeleyev]

Frankly, LT, all these discussion of religion should be moved to a separate section. There is nothing wrong with religion, I love and practice Orthodoxy, and it is true that it is important enough that men seeking a RW/UW should know her views prior to marriage. But it is counter productive to lace every topic with this one.

[SANDRO43]

But it is counter productive to lace every topic with this one.

Not only that: from the RWD Terms of Service, accepted by any RWD member upon joining:

You agree to refrain from posting any ethnic, racial, religious, or political commentary which is not directly related to the theme of this site and/or which may be interpreted by others as being offensive or insulting.

Which also means that this suggestion:

Frankly, LT, all these discussion of religion should be moved to a separate section.

is NOT acceptable in this venue, either.

LT, recently you've been posting repeatedly on this 'Mother of God consecration' theme. It may be a subject dear to you, but if you insist further you will be placed in moderated status, or more .