Odessa or Kiev

[Roger]

Hello folks,

I've got a week off in May and would like to go back to The Ukraine (I spent a fortnight in Sevastopol last year, but other than that am a bit of a novice as far as the country goes). I'm a 40 year old single Briton, with a beginners standard of Russian.

I'd like to do a fair bit of dating, but would also like things to do during the day...and there to be a reasonably good nightlife scene (discos etc).

I'll go back to The Crimea in June, so would like to visit somewhere different.

Trouble is, where to go? What do you regulars recommend? I take it Odessa will be warmer in mid-May, but is the choice of women lesser? (Also ff there are any board members living in either city, I'd be sure to get the beers in to thank them for their advice!).

Any advice would be gratefully recieved!

[Jay Patches]

I'd say Odessa.  If you are interested in night life, I think it's a bit better in Odessa.  Also, I think there are more pro-daters in Kiev than Odessa.

[PeeWee]

Hello folks,

I've got a week off in May and would like to go back to The Ukraine (I spent a fortnight in Sevastopol last year, but other than that am a bit of a novice as far as the country goes). I'm a 40 year old single Briton, with a beginners standard of Russian.

I'd like to do a fair bit of dating, but would also like things to do during the day...and there to be a reasonably good nightlife scene (discos etc).

I'll go back to The Crimea in June, so would like to visit somewhere different.

Trouble is, where to go? What do you regulars recommend? I take it Odessa will be warmer in mid-May, but is the choice of women lesser? (Also ff there are any board members living in either city, I'd be sure to get the beers in to thank them for their advice!).

Any advice would be gratefully recieved!

Is it referred to as "The Ukraine"?  Like The Canada or The Mexico. Other than the United States or the United Kingdom is any country called "The" first?  The China, The Vietnam, The Germany. See what I mean?

Do you have time to visit both cities? Kiev might be your best bet. But why Ukraine? Astrakhan is close by as is Kazakstan. Anyone ever go there?

Peewee

[Roger]

In English, the country is sometimes referred to with the definite article, as the Ukraine, as in the Netherlands, the Gambia, the Sudan or the Congo. However, usage without the article is becoming more frequent, and has become established in journalism and diplomacy since the country's independence (for example, within the style guides of The Economist, The Guardian and The Times). Additionally, the usage of the Ukraine in English is sometimes discouraged because of the inference that it regards Ukraine as merely a region rather than an independent nation-state.

 

The Gambia is another example that springs to mind, but I dare say there could be others.

Astrakhan is a lot further away for me as I'm in Britain, and Kiev and Odessa are easy to get to from here. I've never heard of many Western visitors to Astrakhan, and all I remember about it is it was described as "fabled" in some history book or other I read. I haven't heard so much about it recently, my slightly tongue-in-cheek entry for Wikipedia might be "slightly less fabled as it was 600 years ago" or "not so famous as it was some time ago".  

If I develop a weakness for Tatar girls, or convert to Islam I'll reconsider.

My thinking behind going to Kiev or Odessa are that I'll be travelling alone, I've only got a week, and I'm also very interested in the Second World War Eastern Front history (the main reason I went to Sevastopol last year), and I know Kiev has some great museums. Plus I am writing to several girls there. My uncle was in the Wehrmacht in the war - and tells me he was on the second to last JU52 plane evacuating German soldiers from Odessa - and tells me it's a lovely place, although the fact it it may have changed since 1944 doesn't seem to occur to him.

[aikorob]

My vote goes for Odessa; but I am a little prejudiced:D.

The nightclubs along the beaches should be getting cranked up by that time, so happy hunting.

BTW, Peewee is right, it is simply "Ukraine"

[Roger]

Thanks guys. I guess it will take time for me to change and drop the "The". I'd only just got used to saying "Leningrad" instead of Petrograd, when they go and change its name again too.

I'll have a closer look at Odessa. I heard that the Italians arrived in force last year. Anyone else heard that?

[Turboguy]

I am glad this is a Russian Forum, otherwise after figuring out the "The Ukraine" part we could try to figure out why everyone in LA take "the 5" or "the 101"  when everyone else in the rest of the country goes on Route 5

[Albert]

To the original post.  A lot of this is related to the luck of the draw, so different guys can have entirely different experiences in the various cities.

I have been to FSU over 25 times now and to around 15 cities from St. Pete in north to Yalta in the south.  I go for business first . . . . but I love the ladies everywhere.

Odesa was by FAR the worst city I have ever been in with respect to finding gals to date who met some minimal criteria.  There is some talk in the travel guide literature about Odesites being somewhat 'shady characters.'  A generalization, of course, and stems from the role of Odesa as a shipping and trading center for centuries, and attracting the wheeler/dealer types that thrive in such places.

But such a characterization held true for my experiences with the women.  They were just not much on the up and up regarding who they really were, what their jobs really were, what their English skills really were, what their intentions really were, gross misrepresentations on their profiles, no sense of commitment to keep to date schedules, etc., etc.

Even though Kyiv has a bad reputation with some guys with respect to flaky and insincere women, for me, Kyiv women won hands down over Odesa gals.  My one trip to Odesa (for a month) would have been a complete bust (with respect to female charms) had not a couple of Kyiv women and one from Kherson made the trip down to see me multiple times.

Now leave the women out of the equation, and I found Odesa to be quite a charming city.  Nice and compact, easy to walk around, get from the main streets down to the water, etc.

But, because of my experience with the women of Odesa, I will probably never set foot in that town again . . . . unless my business absolutely demands it.

[Albert]

Ukraine is the name of an independent country. There are only two groups of countries which require the article in English: First, those with plural names such as the United States or the Netherlands. Second, those with adjectival or compound forms which require the article, such as the United Kingdom.

English grammar does not require a definite article before the names of singular countries such as England, Canada or Ukraine.

Geographical regions such as the Arctic, the Atlantic, the North, the West, and the prairies all require the definite article, but these are not countries. Ukraine has very definite borders so it cannot be regarded as merely a region. Some people have mistakenly thought that Ukraine is a general word meaning "the borderland;' "the steppes" or "the prairies;' which would require the article. A few neanderthal writers have even promoted "the Ukraine" to reflect the original meaning "the borderland" in order to diminish the international political stature of Ukraine. They betray their ignorance of Ukraine, or their bias against it, with this usage.

[PeeWee]

I am glad this is a Russian Forum, otherwise after figuring out the "The Ukraine" part we could try to figure out why everyone in LA take "the 5" or "the 101"  when everyone else in the rest of the country goes on Route 5

That is a local thing, Tubro. Here we call "the 5"  which is the same highway as in LA  "I 5"  and highway 90 which stretches from Seattle to NY  "I 90" 

Peewee

[PeeWee]

In English, the country is sometimes referred to with the definite article, as the Ukraine, as in the Netherlands, the Gambia, the Sudan or the Congo. However, usage without the article is becoming more frequent, and has become established in journalism and diplomacy since the country's independence (for example, within the style guides of The Economist, The Guardian and The Times). Additionally, the usage of the Ukraine in English is sometimes discouraged because of the inference that it regards Ukraine as merely a region rather than an independent nation-state.

 

The Gambia is another example that springs to mind, but I dare say there could be others.

Astrakhan is a lot further away for me as I'm in Britain, and Kiev and Odessa are easy to get to from here. I've never heard of many Western visitors to Astrakhan, and all I remember about it is it was described as "fabled" in some history book or other I read. I haven't heard so much about it recently, my slightly tongue-in-cheek entry for Wikipedia might be "slightly less fabled as it was 600 years ago" or "not so famous as it was some time ago".  

If I develop a weakness for Tatar girls, or convert to Islam I'll reconsider.

My thinking behind going to Kiev or Odessa are that I'll be travelling alone, I've only got a week, and I'm also very interested in the Second World War Eastern Front history (the main reason I went to Sevastopol last year), and I know Kiev has some great museums. Plus I am writing to several girls there. My uncle was in the Wehrmacht in the war - and tells me he was on the second to last JU52 plane evacuating German soldiers from Odessa - and tells me it's a lovely place, although the fact it it may have changed since 1944 doesn't seem to occur to him.
[/quote]
The recent movie of a few years ago about the Russian sniper "Enemy at the Gate" (not sure of the title)  was set in which Russian city?  I forgot but the war history should be rich in that city as well.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

I am glad this is a Russian Forum, otherwise after figuring out the "The Ukraine" part we could try to figure out why everyone in LA take "the 5" or "the 101"  when everyone else in the rest of the country goes on Route 5

That is a local thing, Tubro. Here we call "the 5"  which is the same highway as in LA  "I 5"  and highway 90 which stretches from Seattle to NY  "I 90" 

Peewee
[/quote]Yes, I know "the 5" is a local thng,  I was just joking about that a bit.  I also know all about I-90 and have driven the length of it from Seattle east a number of times as well as I 80, I 70, and about every other road in the country.  I-90 has some beatiful country along it and Seatle is a neat city.

[jb]

The recent movie of a few years ago about the Russian sniper "Enemy at the Gate" (not sure of the title)  was set in which Russian city?

I could be wrong, but I believe that city was Stalingrad, now known by it's earlier name, Volgograd.

[Turboguy]

Just so you know I don't always disagree with you jb, yes, that is what I remember from the movie, Stalingrad and yes Pee Wee, that is the name of the movie when I saw it.

[Roger]

Yes, it was Stalingrad, now Volgograd, previously Tsaritsyn. I've got some Russian friends in my city, and they say there unfortunately isn't much there worth seeing, and one day, two at the outside, is enough before you're bored. However, if you like tall blond girls, the Volga area is worth a trip, so I'm told. It is on my list of places to visit, even if the city was entirely rebuilt.

As an aside, The Enemy At The Gates was based on Soviet propaganda which has recently turned out to be false, but this wasn't known at the time the film was made. Snipers came into their own in that city nevertheless.

Thanks all for your help and advice: it's much appreciated.

[Admin]

And the movie was based on a VERY entertaining book by David L. Robbins entitled "War of the Rats." It was published in 1999.

Another fascinating movie - though I think it is only available in subtitles - is a German film entitled "Stalingrad." It is NOT a 'feel-good' type movie - but it portrays the stark realities of war - and of that particular war front. I cannot even imagine the reality of it.

- Dan

Added: BTW - if you want to read about the historical accuracies and inaccuracies in both the book and the movie - check out this link -- http://www.snipercountry.com/BVT_Reviews/WarOfRats.asp

[Roger]

And the movie was based on a VERY entertaining book by David L. Robbins entitled "War of the Rats." It was published in 1999.

Another fascinating movie - though I think it is only available in subtitles - is a German film entitled "Stalingrad." It is NOT a 'feel-good' type movie - but it portrays the stark realities of war - and of that particular war front. I cannot even imagine the reality of it.

- Dan

Added: BTW - if you want to read about the historical accuracies and inaccuracies in both the book and the movie - check out this link -- http://www.snipercountry.com/BVT_Reviews/WarOfRats.asp

 

I've got Vilsmaiers film which is dubbed into English. It's kind of ruined the sound though, the same way that the dubbed version of Das Boot was spoiled. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108211/

My German uncle had a brother shot in Russia by a sniper, another brother captured (and shot) at Stalingrad, and his brother-in-law was a panzer commander killed on the drive to the Don. Thanks for the link. I've got Beevors book Berlin, and Stalingrad is next on my list.

[PeeWee]

Yes, it was Stalingrad, now Volgograd, previously Tsaritsyn. I've got some Russian friends in my city, and they say there unfortunately isn't much there worth seeing, and one day, two at the outside, is enough before you're bored. However, if you like tall blond girls, the Volga area is worth a trip, so I'm told. It is on my list of places to visit, even if the city was entirely rebuilt.

As an aside, The Enemy At The Gates was based on Soviet propaganda which has recently turned out to be false, but this wasn't known at the time the film was made. Snipers came into their own in that city nevertheless.

Thanks all for your help and advice: it's much appreciated.

last week there was an interesting program on the History Channel about the Russian snipers. One of the snipers, they featured her I think, looked like a model. In the day when those warriors were both dirty and wore unflattering uniforms and without the benefit of makeup this sniper looked every bit as good as any fashion model you might name. I kept thinking had she been born 50 years later...look out world!

Regarding the tall blonde Volga woman. Does this include Astrakhan? Nothing more Volga than Astrakhan I think.

 

Peewee

[Roger]

Regarding the tall blonde Volga woman. Does this include Astrakhan? Nothing more Volga than Astrakhan I think.

 

Peewee

I don't know Peewee. I would guess it's a bit too far south there, as it's Tatar country.

[PeeWee]

Regarding the tall blonde Volga woman. Does this include Astrakhan? Nothing more Volga than Astrakhan I think.

 

Peewee

I don't know Peewee. I would guess it's a bit too far south there, as it's Tatar country.
[/quote]
Yes but, Roger, I love Tatar sauce. I should go to Astrahkan.

 

Peewee

[Oosik]

 Ukraine was usually referred to as "The Ukraine Region of the USSR" during the cold war. Until Ukrainian independence, it was nearly always reffered to with the "the", It is a hard habit to break. Those of us who paid close attn to world politics before the first Bush administration know this.