It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: The Russia Left Behind  (Read 10822 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Muzh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6842
  • Country: pr
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
The Russia Left Behind
« on: October 15, 2013, 07:42:01 AM »
A journey through a heartland on the slow road to ruin.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/13/russia/
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Online Faux Pas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10232
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »
Interesting piece Muzh

Offline Muzh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6842
  • Country: pr
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 11:17:53 AM »
Actually, a sadder piece.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Online Faux Pas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10232
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 12:01:24 PM »
Interesting nonetheless. My wife's deceased father was originally from and buried in a Siberian village that could be described in a number of those stops. I made the trip there once. A mere 3 hour trip on the worse stretch of road that I have ever ridden. Beautiful scenery but not much else except the land that time forgot. The scenes of the villages looked like something one would see in an old movie out of the 30's

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9148
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 12:14:32 PM »
What people often forget if they are in Moscow or St Petersburg is that actually the largest part of Russia looks like those villages, which is one of the reasons why it is a hard country to manage.

No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Online Faux Pas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10232
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 01:14:01 PM »
What people often forget if they are in Moscow or St Petersburg is that actually the largest part of Russia looks like those villages, which is one of the reasons why it is a hard country to manage.

True. Russia has I'm guessing 15-20 metropolitan sized cities and once you venture out of those, little else. Few MOB'ers  get off the beaten path. I wouldn't had if it wasn't necessary. I never gave it a lot of thought but, evidently it's quite common in Russia to ignore infrastructure issues outside of the cities

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9148
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 01:17:51 PM »
True. Russia has I'm guessing 15-20 metropolitan sized cities and once you venture out of those, little else. Few MOB'ers  get off the beaten path. I wouldn't had if it wasn't necessary. I never gave it a lot of thought but, evidently it's quite common in Russia to ignore infrastructure issues outside of the cities
The last time they built roads , the Germans used them. No way they are going to repeat that mistake.  ;D
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Online Faux Pas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10232
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 01:40:10 PM »
The last time they built roads , the Germans used them. No way they are going to repeat that mistake.  ;D

 :ROFL:

It's tough to argue with that logic

Offline mendeleyev

  • RWD Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5670
  • Country: ua
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: Resident
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 10:11:32 PM »
That road, Highway M10, has been written about since it opened in the 1700s. One writer was banished to Siberia after he published a detailed report of the road and its condition. Mrs. M and I found it to be at the centre of our honeymoon story in which we nearly met with disaster and an acquaintance was almost killed. If you stay on it past Peter it goes all the way to the border of Finland. A new 4-lane is being constructed along the old site.

Vast areas of Russia still are not connected to a federal highway system.

We laugh, but there is a lot of truth in the fear of invasion as a reason for not building a highway system. General Eisenhower came home from Europe and pushed the USA's interstate highway system in order to spur commerce but also to move troops easily in case of future invasion. The Russians think differently and due to repeated invasions over the centuries the Russians use a different train gauge that was slightly wider than standard in order to slow the advance of foreign armies. The change of gauge was an thorn in the side of the German invaders in the GPW and often slowed their supply trains.

I'd disagree that Russia as a whole is moving backwards and therein lies the error in an otherwise very nice piece photographically. However the the state of life along the M10 is much more varied that this report would pretend. And while beautiful, this piece does pretend: there is no mention of the M11 construction adjacent to the old highway, no photos of modern Tver and no photos or video of the improved stretches of four lane highway along parts of the M10.




The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline calmissile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 10:24:45 PM »
Mendy,
I remember seeing the issue of rail guage changes in the WWII documentaries on the History channels.  Sort of a clever idea to slow the enemy.  IIRC there are also guage changes on the Trans-Siberian rail system.


Offline Chicagoguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1262
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 10:47:48 PM »
I have been in some villages out in Siberia. I doubt if anyone from North America or Europe could last a week there. Streets are all mud, only water is in a well in the center of town and you must use a small cart with two big milk jugs to get your water. Or sleds in Winter. Want a bath ? Heat water over the wood burning stove. I saw absolutely no cars. Just horse drawn wagons. Best available is a motorcycle with sidecar.
 Up in the Boreal area in the middle of nowhere there were two huge, new John Deere harvesters. Big money. Miles from nowhere. None of my friends could explain how they got there or who paid for them. Otherwise in other areas corn was stacked like little teepes. Hand cut.
Yet in small general store there was Miller Lite and Becks Beer and our cell phones worked. It was just like the old, old pictures I have seen of Russia. My friends seem embarrassed that I see this way of life when compared to how they live.

Offline Ooooops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2164
  • Country: sg
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 11:08:19 PM »
Famous Russia writer said loooong time ago - "Russia has two ever lasting problems - idiots and roads"...

Offline Ooooops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2164
  • Country: sg
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 11:23:14 PM »
Quote
“The people on the top do not know what is happening down here,” he said.


That is a silly statement.   Of course, they know.  They just don't care.

Offline Ooooops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2164
  • Country: sg
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 12:14:11 AM »
Quote
Between the great cities are hundreds of disappearing settlements: towns becoming villages, villages becoming forest.


I'm very familiar with that looking at my childhood village in near by region.  Very sad that once self reliant village was turned into collective farm, stripped of most of private initiative, grown to be dependent on subsidizing and now, when such subsidies are gone is sinking into oblivion... 

lordtiberius

  • Guest
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 06:27:11 AM »
That . . . .

Where have you been?  Keep posting!!!!

Offline mendeleyev

  • RWD Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5670
  • Country: ua
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: Resident
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2013, 11:12:34 AM »
Quote
Where have you been?

Egypt, third trip there this year. Work.   :)



The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9148
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2013, 11:15:37 AM »
Egypt, third trip there this year. Work.   :)
Be careful out there. I do not want to see you in the news headlines.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

lordtiberius

  • Guest
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2013, 11:16:08 AM »
How is Gypo?  Safe?  Did you go to Sharm?

Offline mendeleyev

  • RWD Advisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 5670
  • Country: ua
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: Resident
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 02:17:00 PM »
It is far calmer than last trip during the street fighting. There are skirmishes but not like before.

On the last trip I was standing about 30 feet/1 kilometer from a street corner when a young adult girl poked her head around and was hit by a rebel sniper. She died on the spot. There was very little blood on her chest but when her friends picked her up there was a large pool of blood on the concrete sidewalk where she had fallen. The bullet had pierced her chest and left a hole in her back. That incident was profoundly sad.

The group I was with the last two trips was escorted/protected by a quasi private security detail which right now is better than being with government soldiers--that would be like painting a target on one's backside.

The Obama administration has apparently decided to back the Muslim Brotherhood, but quietly. The US State Department has used the government shutdown and the media attention on it to adjust its Egyptian policy with little news coverage. Egypt was due $584 million in military aid this month and an addition $250 million in economic aid so the administration allocated the funds so that it was not impacted by the shutdown. (Most foreign aid continues during shutdowns anyway as a matter of policy.) However the State Department has set those funds aside in escrow accounts pending a policy review. With Muslim Brotherhood advisers in the Obama administration, it is beginning to look like the relationship between Egypt and the USA may be in for a bit of a strain.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy calls the relationship "in turmoil" which is accurate. This weekend new demonstrations are expected approaching the anniversary of the 1973 war with Israel.






The Mendeleyev Journal. http://mendeleyevjournal.com Member: Congress of Russian Journalists; ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.RU (Journalist-Russia); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.UA (Journalist-Ukraine); ЖУРНАЛИСТЫ.KZ (Journalist-Kazakhstan); ПОРТАЛ ЖУРНАЛИСТОВ (Portal of RU-UA Journalists); Просто Журналисты ("Just Journalists").

Offline GQBlues

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11752
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 02:32:13 PM »
I'm not so sure what the big deal here is.....

Maybe these small *forgotten* Russian towns/cities ought to take a cue from the Danes.

Christiania seems to not only be thriving but actually prospering despite the absence of the many comforts of cosmopolitan living.

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Denmark/Koebenhavns_Kommune/Copenhagen-162183/Things_To_Do-Copenhagen-Christiania-BR-1.html

Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9148
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 02:45:31 PM »
I'm not so sure what the big deal here is.....

Maybe these small *forgotten* Russian towns/cities ought to take a cue from the Danes.

Christiania seems to not only be thriving but actually prospering despite the absence of the many comforts of cosmopolitan living.

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Denmark/Koebenhavns_Kommune/Copenhagen-162183/Things_To_Do-Copenhagen-Christiania-BR-1.html
People are always happy to complain against a reporter who looks for something to write about.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline GQBlues

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11752
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 03:53:51 PM »
People are always happy to complain against a reporter who looks for something to write about.

I do like the photographer's eye. Very effective. I especially like the picture of the teenagers sitting in a bus station.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Ooooops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2164
  • Country: sg
  • Gender: Female
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 05:42:20 PM »
Christiania seems to not only be thriving but actually prospering despite the absence of the many comforts of cosmopolitan living.



Quote
Own electricity plant


Did they build it themselves?

Offline Anotherkiwi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4089
  • Country: nz
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2013, 03:55:44 AM »
On the last trip I was standing about 30 feet/1 kilometer from a street corner when a young adult girl poked her head around and was hit by a rebel sniper. She died on the spot.

Which was it?  There's a huge difference.

Offline GQBlues

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11752
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: The Russia Left Behind
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2013, 09:27:19 AM »


Did they build it themselves?

I'm not quite sure Oooopps. I believe there's less than a thousand folks living in the community, so I highly doubt they're capable of doing so. IIRC, they 'buy' their utilities as a single subscriber and everyone in the town pitches in the pay for it.


It's an interesting place. Here's a short Anthony Bourdain video about the place.





But going back to the topic, the condition the author speaks off is not exclusive to Russia. Most nations in the world share that type of societal condition. For instance, China, outside of Beijing and very few other notable Chinese metropolis, the country's larger swat of population live much the same way as describe by this author. This can be found in Asia, South America, Africa, etc...even in LA. Take the metro-blue train from Long Beach to downtown LA and you'll know what I mean.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 8890
Latest: madmaxx
New This Month: 1
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 546490
Total Topics: 20991
Most Online Today: 1338
Most Online Ever: 194418
(June 04, 2025, 03:26:40 PM)
Users Online
Members: 5
Guests: 1314
Total: 1319

+-Recent Posts

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 07:40:58 PM

Re: Outlook for Children of joint Western/FSU relationships by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 07:39:08 PM

Re: Interesting Articles by JohnDearGreen
Yesterday at 06:44:23 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
Yesterday at 04:18:00 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 03:04:48 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
Yesterday at 11:14:05 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
Yesterday at 11:01:49 AM

Re: Outlook for Children of joint Western/FSU relationships by Trenchcoat
August 13, 2025, 11:23:04 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
August 13, 2025, 10:44:28 AM

Re: Outlook for Children of joint Western/FSU relationships by krimster2
August 12, 2025, 11:45:01 PM

Powered by EzPortal