Newbie planning WOVO to UkraineI

[JensenHealey907]

Good evening all:
I am a newbie here. I have been a lurker for many years on EM but recently I have been more serious about my search for a partner to share my life with. I paid the platinum membership fee on EM and I have been corresponding with a nice lady in Zaporozhye, Ukraine. I have never been to eastern Europe before but I have traveled extensively throughout the United States and Canada. I have also been to Beijing and Tianjin China for 12 days a few years ago.

The lady I have been corresponding with seems like a very nice lady but she does not speak english at all. I am excited and looking forward to meeting her in person but I am a little concerned about the language barrier. She also seems excited by the prospect of me visiting in person and has spoken about showing me around Zaporozhye. We have exchanged several letters, some of which have been quite lengthy and in depth discussions of our desires and our current lives. So far the language barrier with these text messages has been manageable.

I am looking for any suggestions from the more experienced members here who might be able to offer guidance with this whole experience. Any advice about how to carry on conversations with this lady and any other issues people might want to contribute would be most appreciated. I have a 10inch android tablet and I have read other people's trip reports here where they went to eastern europe to meet ladies who also had issues with the english language.

Also since I would be traveling to the Ukraine for the first time i am wondering if the best way to do this would be to fly into Kiev and then travel by some other means (train or bus) to Zaporozhye. Any advice about that would be great as well.

BTW, I have carried on long distance relationships before and in fact my ex wife was the person I visited several years ago in Beijing although I had met her in the US initially. I have also dated a lady here in the US who was originally from Moscow and came to the US 14 years ago with her first husband.

Anyway any feedback or advice would be very helpful.

[Slumba]

Welcome fellow Linux user,

I recommend using Skype, with Clownfish or some other addon that helps you translate text.  That way, you can look at her over video chat, but type to each other and translate the written words, same as before.

As well, it is not too hard, to learn a few greetings and other words, in Russian... she may appreciate that you took the time and effort to do this.

[lonedrake]

 Skype!!!!

 You should be concerned about the language barrier. I would skype with her and understand it will be more difficult to communicate when you meet.

 When I made my first trip I thought the language barrier would be easy to overcome. Its not. After the first day with a lady that spoke some English(poor)....I only considered women that spoke English after that.

 I now know how foolish I was.

 But, everyone is different and others have done it.

[Ooooops]

Limited ability to communicate is OK in my book.   No ability at all, relying on some translator - no go.  I've seen those English subtitles in Russian movies - OMG!!!   

[GQBlues]

...
The lady I have been corresponding with seems like a very nice lady but she does not speak english at all. I am excited and looking forward to meeting her in person but I am a little concerned about the language barrier...

A little concerned?!? That's far more concerning than Rob Ford becoming mayor of Detroit !!! Shesssh! Why people do this I will never know.

Anyway, good luck with that. I suggest you better start watching Cesar Milan's show from now on as one member here who married a woman who doesn't speak his language said (paraphrased), " it's really the same as the relationship you have with your dog."
 
So keeping that in mind, invest on a frisbee or a stick.
 
If this is something that you can walk away from, do and do it soon!
 
If you can't, then let me at least offer you this website that can at least give you good information for your target destination...Zaporizhya
 
 

[JensenHealey907]

Thanks for the words of warning about the lack of english skills. I know it would be difficult. I have also investigated using clownfish.

How about interpreters? I have read trip reports here where the first few meetings used the services of a  interpreter or a translation app on a computer.

Has anyone here actually been to Zaporozhye and made use of a reliable interpreter?

Is there a thread here or articles on other site that might be good recommended reading for a newbie considering his first trip to the Ukraine or any eastern europe country? I.E. what to pack, what not to pack, travel suggestions, anything along these lines?

[Vinnvinny]

Welcome JensenHealey907.

I can’t offer you any advice regarding travelling half way around the world to meet a lady who you don’t share a language with as it’s something that would be alien to me. Good luck though.

As for getting to Zap I would discount the idea of catching a bus from Kiev. Catching the train is a better idea; ask if you need more information.

Another alternative is to fly to Dnepropetrovsk via Vienna, Moscow or Istanbul and catch a taxi to Zap. It takes about 1 hour and you should be able to get a taxi at the airport for around $50 if you’re prepared to hold your ground and barter.

As for what to pack, other than a few power adapters that will largely depend upon the time of year you plan to travel.

The only independent interpreter I am aware of in Zap is here: http://www.ukrinterpreters.com/bios/nataliia104.html  I can’t vouch for her services either way.

[JayH]

Welcome JH907. Instead of repeating myself!!  -- see the new thread "Hello Everyone" and started by fellow newbie MBH248-- read by comments there!! 

One of the key parts of seeking advice is to give the forum some information  eg-- what month are you going? ( It has large affect on what you should take !!)   

Dealing with specific info you need now-- where did you meet your contact? What are your ages? (I hate asking that--but it can often have a fair degree of relevance at your stage)  Age question can also have some relevance to English speaking question.

Vinny offers good advice on travel. Also see my thread "Flying in and to Ukraine" .  Once you settle on basic plan--getting from  DNE to ZAP is covered in a few threads here.

[mendeleyev]

Jensen,

Welcome to the forum. At some point somebody will tell you, so I'll go ahead and urge you to drop "the" from the country that has a one-word name, Ukraine. I know that Westerners have mispronounced it for years, but since you're going to make Eastern Europe a part of your future travels, why not begin to drop "the" immediately as it is a habit and will take some time to break. Locals will thank you for it.

I don't know you but making the assumption that you are a decent guy, good luck in this journey. There is a lot of knowledge here and sometimes it is delivered with a sledgehammer so put on steel toed boots and come slosh around the pool.

Several of the members here speak Russian but we didn't at one point of course. I'm perhaps one of the most ardent supporters of guys learning some common words and phrases that you will encounter. It is just like a sales call, the more that you can do to build genuine rapport and the more knowledge you can bring to a relationship, the more you become an obvious fit for the client. It works much that way when done sincerely with families, friends of the lady and the lady herself--the more rapport and knowledge you bring, the better a fit you will be for her.

She needs to contribute in the same way. I'd be very hesitant in meeting a girl if she hadn't made the same kind of effort to learn more about my culture and my language so that she could be a better fit for me. One of the things you should observe as a relationship progresses is whether her English language skills are improving.

When my wife and I first began to court I'd often meet her after work in Moscow. We had some history working at the same company but when we began dating we might be walking to a Metro station or bus stop and she would quiz me on billboard signs and window advertisements. She even had me sing words as Russian is a very musical language. She spoke fair English and sometimes our dates were spent seated across a table using an English text that she had purchased and I'd be the mentor. Fortunately she had conversational skills already but those were great bonding sessions and we would laugh at mistakes and I began to pick up on nuances of the Russian language while helping perfect her English.

That story could be replicated to a degree on Skype. Back then we barely had dial-up email and the city of Moscow provided free dial-up after midnight until 5am. We'd stay up past midnight just to email. Skype was still to be invented but I'd encourage you to find some very basic English resources and at some point use even a paragraph or two with each session to get started and build on that. Frankly, if she isn't interested in learning English with you, then she isn't that interested in you. I cannot tell you when to begin as we don't know your relationship but were it me, I'd work that in as soon as comfortable.

I don't like electronic translators as there are so many variables in any language and the biggest drawback is the cultural aspect to language. Language is understood and spoken culturally and no electronic translator can capture that and therefore you have mistakes in translation often. The courting of a possible future life mate is not a good place to have translation mistakes.

I really like that you have traveled. That is a big plus in your favour as many first dates/first meetings don't work out. It is impossible for email and Skype to judge chemistry and compatibility and therefore one who has traveled usually does better in making good use of the remaining time in-country if the first relationship just never got off the ground.

[JensenHealey907]

Thank you JayH and mendeleyev for your advice and pointers. Mendeleyey, the story of how you and your wife shared some great bonding through mutually learning each other's language sounds like it was a wonderful experience.

My lady friend in Ukraine has expressed a strong interest in learning English and she also realizes how important it would be if our relationship ever progresses to the point where she would come to the US. I did not mean to give the impression that she has no desire to learn English.

I also think the idea of me trying to learn some Russian would be a good idea.

As to what month I would be going I don't have definite plans yet but I was thinking possibly either during the Thanksgiving holiday or perhaps Christmas.

[Ooooops]

At some point somebody will tell you, so I'll go ahead and urge you to drop "the" from the country that has a one-word name, Ukraine. I know that Westerners have mispronounced it for years, but since you're going to make Eastern Europe a part of your future travels, why not begin to drop "the" immediately as it is a habit and will take some time to break. Locals will thank you for it.

Locals will not even notice "the" or "no the", I think.   I don't   

[Ooooops]

When my wife and I first began to court ...

Mendy, would it be too impolite to ask you what year/s you are talking about? 

[JensenHealey907]

Wow! Lots of good information in the "Flying in and to Ukraine" thread. Thanks JayH for pointing this one out to me. That is exactly the type of information I was looking for. I have to get some sleep now but I plan on looking at the other thread you suggested tomorrow.

Again, Thanks JayH

[Daveman]

Has anyone here actually been to Zaporozhye and made use of a reliable interpreter?

Welcome Jensen,


Ye Ole Language Barrier Buttkicker, huh? ... that's a challenging situation.  Been there, done that....once.  It's astronomically frustrating at times but was also fun while it lasted in some ways.  There are a couple gazillion or so language barrier threads here.  A couple of searches should bring up more than you want to know.


Actually I do just happen to know a fabulously cool young woman in Zap who is highly fluent in English as well as a friend of my wife. She interpreted for me at our wedding/party in Donetsk (read hung out with me like a shadow whenever the wife and I mingled separately - and made sure I understood the wedding party MC, every toast to me and drunken stupor blathering from me, and she did an excellent job interpreting my inebriated Russian into intelligible Russian as well.)  She's definitely more than capable with the language aspect but as far as I am aware has not been involved with this type of situation before.  At least she used to live in Zap.  If you're interested in speaking with her about it, I'll find out if she's interested in doing it and, if it's a mutual go, hook the two of you up.


She may also be able to help you with some logistics. 


When is your trip? Never mind, you answered that while I was writing this...

[Ooooops]

[size=78%]She interpreted for me at our wedding/party[/size]

I was caught off guard at our friend's wedding reception when my friend's parents decided that they didn't like their appointed translator and made me to stand up with them doing the simultaneous poems speech from Russian to English.   Good thing I'm such an easy people gower and great mime.     

[Ade]

The lady I have been corresponding with seems like a very nice lady but she does not speak english at all.

Then why are you doing it? Sexy bod, right? 


Come on, there are a million and one women out there that speak your language and you pick one that you can't even communicate with and have really no chance on knowing well for many, many months at best even if she learns English quickly. Anything you think you know already is possibly only half correct and probably mostly a deluded hope of what you wish it to be.


A few people have done what you're doing and they have successful marriages. Very many more have failed miserably because they married someone they didn't know.

[Shadow]

Welcome Jensen. I will make a very odd suggestion and advice the two of you to learn sign language. It is pretty universal and leaves less chances for misinterpretation.
Besides that it will be fun listening to all comments about the two of you being deaf 

[Anotherkiwi]

I will make a very odd suggestion and advice the two of you to learn sign language. It is pretty universal and leaves less chances for misinterpretation.

You sure, Shadow?  I have deaf friends who say that American sign language has several marked differences from New Zealand.  I'm not deaf so I couldn't possibly comment, but maybe CDW could if he's still around.
 
Anyway, that's a possibly fun side issue.    Mr Motorcar!  I wish you luck but, after a couple of failed attempts with women whose English skills were poor and moderate respectively, the future Mrs AK will have to speak good English (unfortunately that rules out most Australians  ).  I wouldn't phrase it quite as bluntly as Ade and GQBlues, but they ARE actually right.  You MAY get really lucky (if you're as lucky as Chicagoguy you will have a match made in somewhere closer than heaven), but there's an extremely high likelihood that it won't work out.
 

My lady friend in Ukraine has expressed a strong interest in learning English and she also realizes how important it would be if our relationship ever progresses to the point where she would come to the US. I did not mean to give the impression that she has no desire to learn English.

How long have you two been trying to communicate?  Seriously, if she's THAT interested in you, she would have made time for English lessons within the first month or so.   It might depend, of course, on her financial situation, but the prices I've seen for English lessons in Ukraine seem pretty cheap, even for someone earning the average wage over there.  "A strong interest in learning" doesn't actually mean anything - I have a strong interest in improving my Russian language skills, but I'm not doing anything about it at the moment.
 
You might even break one of RWD's Ten Commandments and offer to pay for English lessons!

I also think the idea of me trying to learn some Russian would be a good idea.

Yes, it would, although others here will disagree.

As to what month I would be going I don't have definite plans yet but I was thinking possibly either during the Thanksgiving holiday or perhaps Christmas.

I thought Thanksgiving was only a long weekend?  No way is that long enough to do anything worthwhile - 12 to 18 hours in the air, depending on where you live, plus airport transfers and check-ins, and there goes Thursday.  The same coming back - there goes Sunday.  You have two days, assuming that you aren't jet-lagged half to death like some members here, to make an incredible impression on this lady.  She will not want to meet a lump of blancmange whose body clock is so out of kilter that he wants to go to bed at midday!
 
Seriously, flag that one as a bad idea.  Christmas would be preferable to me, even allowing for the 40 or 50 degree drop in temperature compared with here - by then, you should be able to judge her progress in learning English, and you'll have a much better idea of whether or not she really is worth pursuing.
 
Anyway, whatever you choose to do, good luck!

[Ooooops]

I have deaf friends who say that American sign language has several marked differences from New Zealand.

This I would really like to learn about more.  I thought that Brail was universal, no?

[SANDRO43]

This I would really like to learn about more.  I thought that Brail was universal, no?

Lesson #1:
- Braille is for the blind, not the deaf/mute .

Lesson #2:
- See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_language, apparently there are MANY local variants:

Sign language families

[Gator]

I am excited and looking forward to meeting her in person but I am a little concerned about the language barrier.
 

Unless you consider Tolstoy's War and Peace a novella about a walk in the park,     I agree with GQ and Ade that you should seek someone else, someone who speaks some English.

 
Seriously, what you plan to undertake has little chance of success unless:
 
1.   You have much time to develop the relationship (you should plan on three years of dating, making 3-5 trips per year).
 
2.   You have had enough past experience with "bad apples" that you can spot one without buying it.   Not a small number of FSUW have the mentality that it is acceptable to fleece the unsuspecting American man.  The result is that you may waste 1-2 years of your time and $10,000+ of your money before realizing that she was never sincerely interested in you.
 
3.  She has shown a proclivity for language albeit not English.  Learning language is easier for some people than others.  Perhaps she does not know English because she elected to study   German or perhaps she is not bright.  Not knowing another language suggests to me that she will be slow to learn English and her mentality is not a good for moving to America given the difficulties of adjustment.
 
4.  As Mendy advised, you learn some Russian. 
 
I speak from experience, as my wife spoke "poor" English when we first met.  She is a fabulous woman and was well worth the risk even if I had failed.  And fail I did.  Nevertheless, my patience was eventually rewarded.  Then we entered a new stage of frustration when she immigrated to America and encountered the many adjustment obstacles. 
 
If you do pursue this woman:
 
1.  Use a reliable interpreter now to ask more probing questions and to get an independent assessment of this woman.
 
2.  Plan on meeting other women while on your trip.
 
 
BTW, it will take less than a day to see the highlights of the strip-cityZap, highlighted by walking atop a hydroelectric dam.       Actually, there is an interesting outdoor Cossack museum.
 
 

[JensenHealey907]

Yes, my lady friend has already mentioned the Cossack museum and horseback riding exhibition. The last couple of letters to me are filled with descriptions of things we can do when I visit. She also suggested flying into Dnepropetrovs where she could meet me.

She has checked on English language tutoring sessions and wants to start a class that begins on Nov 17th. She has described in detail all of the various options she found. And yes, I have broken one of the rules by offering to pay for the lessons. I figure they are a good investment in our relationship. The cost is cheap enough that I am not overly concerned by this part. I have spent way more on car and computer parts for my hobbies.

[Muzh]

The lady I have been corresponding with seems like a very nice lady but she does not speak english at all. I am excited and looking forward to meeting her in person but I am a little concerned about the language barrier. She also seems excited by the prospect of me visiting in person and has spoken about showing me around Zaporozhye. We have exchanged several letters, some of which have been quite lengthy and in depth discussions of our desires and our current lives. So far the language barrier with these text messages has been manageable.

A la verdad es que tienes que ser un cabrón de siete suelas. ¿Que carajo tú haces buscando una mujer con quién no puedes hablar una puñeta? ¿Estás loco o te pica el culo? ¿Y especialmente yendo a un país que no conoces?
 
Clownfish that.
 
P.S. Pics of the Jensen Healy, please.

[Faux Pas]

Yes, my lady friend has already mentioned the Cossack museum and horseback riding exhibition. The last couple of letters to me are filled with descriptions of things we can do when I visit. She also suggested flying into Dnepropetrovs where she could meet me.

She has checked on English language tutoring sessions and wants to start a class that begins on Nov 17th. She has described in detail all of the various options she found. And yes, I have broken one of the rules by offering to pay for the lessons. I figure they are a good investment in our relationship. The cost is cheap enough that I am not overly concerned by this part. I have spent way more on car and computer parts for my hobbies.

Well therein lies the rub. You have a pen pal through translation. You don't yet have a relationship per se'. If they are that cheap one might ask why she hasn't already taken the lessons being she is searching for a foreign partner?

 It's easy to understand that you like and have grown some affection for this woman. Most folks here wish you the best and hope it works out for you. Yet, at the end of the day, you don't know her, she doesn't know you and you can not yet communicate to improve on that. It's not the best footing to start a relationship.

Keep everything in proper perspective. Hope for the best and expect the worse. One invariable fact is that you can travel to meet this woman, spend a couple of weeks with her and you still have no clue as to whether or not, do  you really like each other? Take your time, think with the big head, not the little one. As mentioned, plan many trips as her English progresses and communication improves. The worse possible scenario for you is, that you make a trip, fall in love, marry the woman and you do not "know" her and you can't communicate with her. Read the archives. They can be enlightening

[Patagonie]

Yes, my lady friend has already mentioned the Cossack museum and horseback riding exhibition. The last couple of letters to me are filled with descriptions of things we can do when I visit. She also suggested flying into Dnepropetrovs where she could meet me.

She has checked on English language tutoring sessions and wants to start a class that begins on Nov 17th. She has described in detail all of the various options she found. And yes, I have broken one of the rules by offering to pay for the lessons. I figure they are a good investment in our relationship. The cost is cheap enough that I am not overly concerned by this part. I have spent way more on car and computer parts for my hobbies.

Nota bene : for the moment you have no relationship.

Don't forget that.

So this is a bad investment.

And now if she ditches you soon, you would for ever have the doubt if she was a prodater/scammer or not.