Who speaks English?

[mendeleyev]

The two most common countries in this adventure are Russia and Ukraine. I highly recommend Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Moldova as well but they are just not was well known to most Westerners.

But between Russia and Ukraine, generally in your experience whose citizens speak better English?

To her credit, Ukraine adopted bilingual signs sooner than Russia and perhaps that is a hint. But signs aren't individuals.

An article in the Moscow Times cites a study that lists Ukraine ahead of Russia in the number of citizens who are familiar with English. What are your opinions and experiences?

The MT article:

Russia has achieved 31st place out of 60 countries in English proficiency, beating France and Italy, but falling behind Latvia and Ukraine on an index published annually by language school English First.The country may have got a boost in the ratings from the Olympics.

English First was drafted in this year by the government to pump up the language skills of 30,000 volunteers for the winter games in Sochi in February.Knowledge of English is one of the essential skills required of Sochi volunteers, said Tanya Kochkina, manager of the Olympics Games English language training project. They "need to be able to explain and show the country from a positive side," she said.

The school tested 75,000 applicants for the training program, including Olympic staff, volunteers, event referees and contractors. Of these, 33,000 were selected for online training, 30,000 of whom were able to attend interactive seminars in 20 cities, where they were given the opportunity to practice their English skills with other people.

Read the entire article here: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/olympic-training-puts-russia-31st-in-english-language-proficiency/489200.html#ixzz2k57XTgWl

So, what is your take?

[ML]

I never noticed much difference between Ukraine and Russia regarding the proportion of people who can communicate in English.

I always conducted all business in English, so I suspect my samples weren't representative of the countries at large.

But I am pretty sure that once you get out of the business and university climate; the people who can converse in English in Ukraine or Russia pales in comparison to countries like Austria, Sweden, etc.

I do know from my business and social acquaintances that several Ukrainian Universities are running or planning to run entire degree programs where all instruction will be in English.  This is especially true in the medical and scientific areas so that graduates will be able to go to international conferences and bring back and put to use info of value.

One friend has a son who completed vet school entirely in English.  Government wants him to be able to communicate to keep up on  the latest regarding animal diseases, etc., that can spread across countries.

Don't know what Russia is doing in this regard.

[mendeleyev]

Don't know what Russia is doing in this regard.

Glad you brought that up, ML. PM Medvedev has begun to assemble education experts to look at and overhaul the Russian University system with the goal of bring it up to competitive standards with the West. That will take awhile but is worth the effort.

Russia is a top destination for medical students from places like India and English is more widely spoken there so I'm thinking that over time we'll see more classes that use English.

[Shadow]

In order for English to become more common Russia will have to change something very simple to do, but carrying large implications.

Instead of dubbing foreign films and series with Russian, use subtitles.
As most Russians are literate, reading the subtitles would not pose a large problem, and people will get used to hearing English. This will allow them to keep up with the lessons that almost every Russian has had in school and make simple conversation a lot easier.

[Doll]

In order for English to become more common Russia will have to change something very simple to do, but carrying large implications.

Instead of dubbing foreign films and series with Russian, use subtitles.
As most Russians are literate, reading the subtitles would not pose a large problem, and people will get used to hearing English. This will allow them to keep up with the lessons that almost every Russian has had in school and make simple conversation a lot easier.

I don't see why English needs to be "more common" in Russia. Leave alone foreign films  without subtitles.
 The one who needs any foreign language can use internet.

[mendeleyev]

Personally I'm torn.

One the one hand I see the creeping Anglicization of the Russian language and understand that English has already arrived in Russia and will continue unabated. That helps Russia from an international business perspective.

On the other hand (like Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof) I deplore the deliberate language Anglicization. It is ridiculous and makes me angry that McDonald's can't have a bolshoi Mak and instead must have a Биг Mak (Big Mac). Fast food chains and soft drink products have fueled the process as they have jettisoned the Russian language and Cyrillic alphabet with the bastardization of trying to force Cyrillic into Latin.

Things like KFC's "биггер" piss me off. They can't find a Russian form for "bigger," really? They have access to Russian speaking staff but this is just disrespectful.





Some of these fast food executives and ad managers should be taken over to Lubyanka for a quick bullet in the back of the head. Just my frustration of course. 

[Shadow]

I don't see why English needs to be "more common" in Russia. Leave alone foreign films  without subtitles.
 The one who needs any foreign language can use internet.

We live in an era of globalization, and that includes the language.
As Holland is a small country, the practice of subtitles has been much more economic as hiring actors to dub every film. There for, children's TV excepted, all are using subtitles for over 40 years.
Dutch still exists and while Anglization does happen it certainly has not taken over. And on the positive side, you will not find a single Dutch person who can not understand English.

[Chicagoguy]

I noticed over 10 years ago that almost all the shops on Tverskaya Uuitsa had their signs in English. When I asked my Russian friend he said it was cachet. I remember when it was much French in America. Some still is of course.

[Doll]

We live in an era of globalization, and that includes the language.
As Holland is a small country, the practice of subtitles has been much more economic as hiring actors to dub every film. There for, children's TV excepted, all are using subtitles for over 40 years.
Dutch still exists and while Anglization does happen it certainly has not taken over. And on the positive side, you will not find a single Dutch person who can not understand English.

We do live in the era of globalization but I still don't see why people in Russia NEED to watch the films without subtitles.
They have their own well developed language and will watch whatever in their language.
Just like you do.

[Doll]

I noticed over 10 years ago that almost all the shops on Tverskaya Uuitsa had their signs in English. When I asked my Russian friend he said it was cachet. I remember when it was much French in America. Some still is of course.

They do it for tourists.

[Isthmus]

Whether people like it or not, English has become the global lingua franca. Today, if you ever want to travel abroad you need some English language proficiency.  Not speaking at least some English and lacking basic IT knowledge is the 21st century equivalent of illiteracy.

[Isthmus]

We do live in the era of globalization but I still don't see why people in Russia NEED to watch the films without subtitles.
They have their own well developed language and will watch whatever in their language.
Just like you do.

In Australia foreign films are never dubbed into English but rather are subtitled.  I prefer it that way, you lose quality when its dubbed in terms of delivery, voice projection ... all kinds of nuances that a voice over usually won't have compared to the original actor's voice.

[Chicagoguy]

They do it for tourists.

Moscow Russians are richer than tourists 

[JayH]

Personally I'm torn.
One the one hand I see the creeping Anglicization of the Russian language and understand that English has already arrived in Russia and will continue unabated. That helps Russia from an international business perspective.

Things like KFC's "биггер" piss me off. They can't find a Russian form for "bigger," really? They have access to Russian speaking staff but this is just disrespectful.

It is an interesting topic. Shadow mentioned Dutch still being spoken upthread--it reminded me of my first European trip many years ago !! where I discovered virtually everyone under about 40 yo spoke excellent English.It was very soft European entry. It was (is)compulsory in schools for some years and I could see how effective it was.
By way of contrast at that time in France where English was not widely well spoken and was basically scorned by authorities who were and still -- are are fighting a losing battle to prevent the Anglicisation of the French language and culture.
I very much equate those experiences with what I have seen in Ukraine-- where some are actively seeking to impose Ukrainian over Russian  --while English is becoming by far the most taught foreign language . Most  younger people  have some English but lack practical opportunities to get practice to improve. Most are far better than they think at basic English.
Mendes battle to preserve the and use Russian words is very similar to the losing battle the French have been making for the last 50 years !!

[mendeleyev]

Some observations on the topic using yesterday's Miss Universe pageant as one example.

The two English speaking co-hosts started the program by saying hello in Russian. I didn't expect them to try on Здравствуйте as that is indeed hard for a non speaker and they'd only arrived in Moscow during the past week. They used the informal hello that you'd use to greet someone you already know: привет (pri-vyet). Good enough.

So as the girls began to introduce themselves I was really interested in how Miss Russia, Elmira Abdrazakova, would handle it being that she is from Siberia (Mezhdurechensk, near Kemerovo) and not a major Russian city. She doesn't speak much English although she is a very intelligent young lady and I wasn't surprised at all when she pronounced Russia as Россия (ra-seeya) in her quick intro. It reflected her confidence level by declining to try some English while on stage.

Miss Ukraine however is much more bubbly (she and Miss Russia get along very well together for those who know that Miss Russia has received a lot of flack this year over her father's Tatar heritage) and Miss Ukraine, Olga Storozhenko, speaks English comfortably and that is exactly how she handled her introduction and in her interview remarks.

The other person of note was Russian pop singer Filipp Kirkorov, one of the 8 judges. The fact that Kirkorov owns a Donald Trump built condo in Miami probably helped him land the gig as one of the judges in a Trump/NBC owned pageant. So when it came time to interview the final 5, Kirkorov who is of Bulgarian and Russian descent, asked his question in accented, but perfect English.

For those interested, Miss Kazakhstan, Aigerim Kozhakhanova, speaks several languages including some English. You may be interested to know that those sexy Miss Universe promo shots of a dark haired girl wearing what was billed as the million dollar white diamond studded swim suit for promotional campaigns was of Miss Kazakhstan. She lives in Almaty where she works as a fashion model and this was her first trip to Moscow.

There were a lot of спасибо (spa SI ba, means "thank you") expressions peppered in conversations during the pageant.

Moral of this story: Try to date a beauty queen or pop star if your RW needs to have some English skills. 

[Shadow]

We do live in the era of globalization but I still don't see why people in Russia NEED to watch the films without subtitles.
They have their own well developed language and will watch whatever in their language.
Just like you do.

My native language is Dutch. However I understood the virtues of TV education a long time ago, as I preferred to watch F1 in French (and because they were at the time the only available channel broadcasting) thus improving my ear for that language. We used to watch a lot of German TV as well, and of course the subtitled English on the Dutch channels.
In fact, today I enjoy watching Russian TV as hearing the language over extended time simply improves understanding.

Unless you want Russians to live behind a wall that does not allow communication outside their country, giving them experience in English and Chinese is something they will benefit from.

[Doll]

Moscow Russians are richer than tourists 

Dyslexia?

[Doll]

In Australia foreign films are never dubbed into English but rather are subtitled.   

What's the official language in Australia again? Remind me.

[Shadow]

What's the official language in Australia again? Remind me.

Pama–Nyungan 

[Doll]

  Unless you want Russians to live behind a wall that does not allow communication outside their country, giving them experience in English and Chinese is something they will benefit from.

Are you listening to what you're saying?
Living behind the wall and imposing YOUR language in the form of "you, Russians, need to watch Amer. movies with no translation" are TWO different things.
Nothing new though.
So, in China they HAVE to watch same? In France? In Argentina?
Why?

[Doll]

Pama–Nyungan 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Australia

[Shadow]

Are you listening to what you're saying?
Living behinds the wall and imposing YOUR language in the form of "you, Russians, need to watch Amer. movies with no translation" are TWO different things.
Nothing new though.
So, in China they HAVE to watch same? In France? In Argentina?
Why?

Once again, English is NOT my language.
And there will be translation in the form of subtitles. As almost any Russian can read, what is the problem?

[Doll]

Didn't know you were in Holland))))))
Translation in what language? Russian?
But why? They are Russians with (again) very well developed language.

[Isthmus]

What's the official language in Australia again? Remind me.

There is no law that says Australia has an official language but the language of public communication is English of course (not my mother tongue either mind you). Even in dealing with many parts of Australian bureaucracy you can organise interpreters and information in over 20 languages, including Russian. Shops can have signs in any languages they want to.  Its a very linguistically tolerant country.

[vwrw]

But why? They are Russians with (again) very well developed language.

If person wants to have access to the wealth of information available in English and communicate with foreign people from many cultures, s/he has to learn English, regardless of how well developed the person's non - english language is.  That is why - to have access to the wealth of information and to communicate with foreign people.

Now, the easiest way to learn other language is to watch programs on TV or Internet in the language and without translation.