Air quality in Ukraine?

[Ooooops]

Not about Ukraine, but couple of our friends kids had real problem with air pollution in Beijing.   So basically it come to that - if you are healthy, you'll survive, if you have problems - they will worsen. 

[JayH]

Jay, if you go back and reread, the OP's question was not whether to go there or not....it was about air quality.
 The OP's has some sinus probs., wonder how many here have that prob?
Maybe it is more mental, but seeing those smoke stacks billowing dark smoke made me sick ( just the feeling, not like Canadaman). Some of these towns seem dark and dingy...the worst I saw was Mariupol, yuk.

Do not wish to sound pedantic-- I did read what the OP asked--my particular references were to exactly what he asked/  .If you note--he quoted a few other places that he was familiar with. I appreciate that was your reaction with what you saw-no problem for me with that. You were not on the plus count btw!! lol   In the end-- would it stop you going there to meet someone? My guess is you would choose to go.

[LAman]

Of course I would go...I don't have any sinus probs...plus I have plenty of antibodies from LA pollution....still doesn't change the fact the air quality is very poor in Zap!!!!

[Daveman]

Well, generally speaking, it appears we've at least succeeded in scaring the living hell out of our information seeking OP. 

[Ooooops]

Well, generally speaking, it appears we've at least succeeded in scaring the living hell out of our information seeking OP. 

Forewarned is forearmed.   Bwahaha!   

[southernX]

Well, generally speaking, it appears we've at least succeeded in scaring the living hell out of our information seeking OP. 

 lol
correct on that one daveman ,    talk about 

given my travel & time  experience in ukraine citys and russia , i think the op , would be wise to do some reading on it , understand the potential he may face in regards to air quality , then make up his mind ,

for me i go there , no problems ,& as i said earlier , i suffer with moderate asthma & hay fever etc, in australia ,
never had an issue there with any respiratory or eye problems ,bar one dose of flue in st petes years ago , that  was probably from the plane trip not the air pollution anyway 
would i live there , ??  in some parts , yes

SX

[LAman]

Well, generally speaking, it appears we've at least succeeded in scaring the living hell out of our information seeking OP. 

Actually the OP did well himself from reply #7 and #8, in fact he was going to bring the paper face masks!!!!

[TomT]

Well, generally speaking, it appears we've at least succeeded in scaring the living hell out of our information seeking OP.

It bodes ill when the greatest proponent of a plan is unstable, though.


Anyway, the OP and his girl can always visit Krym if he feels any symptoms coming on.

[steveboy]

All the people living there manage to survive. Do as they do and you will be fine 

Yes fully agree!! What a load of whimps!!! lets hope there isn't another world war, how will some people survive.

[Muzh]

The only thing I am inclined to disagree however is, there are still a lot of residual 'lead contaminants still lingering in the LA basin as a result of the lead content in the gasoline used decades ago. While use of lead been banned for a while now there are still residual evidences along our roadways...however slight, +/- sub 10 ug/m3'.  Lead is a tough, tough metal to get rid off - who knows maybe some of that pollutant are/were caused by our Blood/Crips gangs...

The simple fact is that lead is a naturally occurring element. You will never get "0" ambient readings for lead.

[Muzh]

At least it isn't airborne, thanks to California leading the nation to get the lead tetraethyl out of the gasoline. The idea that someone can judge health risks by looking out of their hotel window (or, in one case, out of his mum's basement window) is rubbish, though. There are plenty of toxins and carcinogens that don't show up in particulate tests, don't contribute to smog, but are banned in the West but are in common use in Ukraine.

Ahem.
 
NYS DEC lead (pun) the charge to convince the US EPA that the time was right to mandate catalytic converters in automobiles and banning tetraethyl lead. Back in the early '70s a group of (unnamed for obvious reasons) scientists purchased 55 gallon drums of unleaded gasoline (very illegal in NYS in those days) and ran tests (in a hideout location) with their own manufactured catalytic converters and gathered the data. The data proved that the claims made by the SAE, and the Big Three regarding the uselessness of catalytic converters were a bunch of purchased lies.
 
Ah yes. The days when being a civil servant meant something. <sigh>

[Muzh]

I am one of those who wouldn't worry about a visit there without some scientific evidence indicating that there really is something to worry about. 


Are there serious health risks to worry about for a short visit in Zap? and if so, what is that?  and why (layman's version please)?

Spend a week vacation in LA or NYC. Or if you feel lucky, spend a week in Mexico City. If you don't develop any respiratory illness then you don't have to worry about Zap.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It is very helpful. I will be taking some of the paper disposable face masks along.

If the woman you wish to meet is in Zap, does the air quality really matter? If it is that important to you, honestly, you should only vet women from countries with a more acceptable air quality standard to suit you. Forget Ukraine, Russia, most FSU cities/countries. China and most of South America. None of which with the current air quality is liable to harm you for a short visit

Leave the masks at home.  , seriously. Of course it might be more acceptable if you are Asian and at LAX 

[Muzh]

Depends of course. 
 
 
If someone already has respiratory ailments, short term exposures to fine particulates can be deleterious.
 
And  the notorious case of Bhopal   - short exposure of gas leak from a pesticide plant lasting less than one night.  Deaths numbered 2000-3000.  Injured over 500,000 people.   
 
Nevertheless, I agree with you based on what I cursorily observed in Zaptown.

That was methyl isocyanate (CASRN 624-83-9) which was an intermediate for the production of carbamate pesticides. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts182.pdf

[GQBlues]

The simple fact is that lead is a naturally occurring element. You will never get "0" ambient readings for lead.

Lead is an (existing) element, Muzh. We all know that, except for obviously one or two Australian evidently. Of course it's always present otherwise it would have been taken 'out' of the element table or have never been placed there in the first place. That isn't the problem. The concentration level, use and dispersion amongst the populous is. Like asbestos, they found many uses for lead within our societal functions. And like asbestos, left alone or not airborne, they're technically *harmless*. However, traces of lead on roadways today isn't exactly the perfect scenario to keep this puppies from going airborne. But like I said, luckily, only small traces of it is present.

Heck, they used to sell strands of this stuff for soldering silly projects we have on school workshops with little or no regard to public safety. Until studies begin to emerge with its use. Ignorance have a steep price tag. Lead was even present in house paints widely used not too long ago. When and if I have to take a house or structure down, there's an exhaustive survey that must be first conducted in the field, a report filed for indentification, classification, quantity and a regulated removal protocol. Risk Assessment - Risk Management.

Same with asbestos. I've remediated enough of this crap demolishing old structures and even digging out ACP (Asbestos Cement Pipe) we used to use to pipe our domestic water with a few times a year to know the strict regulatory restriction in handling and documentation for the removal of this material. It literally borders on insane.

Remember that little 'white pad' wrap with those flat wire strand in everyone's toaster or blow dryer not too long ago? Yup. If you still have those and you throw them out with your garbage they found out where it came from, at least in SoCal - you're toast.

Everywhere on earth you go, there will be pollution. The pollutants and/or contaminants differ and with variable concentration. Consequently, the net effect on people will be subjective. Some allergically react to the chemicals in a cigarette while others won't. Petro-based contaminants, metal-based contaminants, VOCs, etc...Based on WHO's 2010 report, there is the same measure of PM10 in Los Angeles as there is in Dunedin, New Zealand (25).

CanadaMan is a good example for being a pseudo-Lab rat for this point. Based on his experience/time in Zap, he fell ill while ignorant MOBers from *Done* Under fared pretty well. It's like people who are allergic to bee stings, or have adverse reaction to that particular trigger, certain allergens/triggers affect people in different ways...

Which brings me back to the OP"s question...

So I just made my plane reservations today for my trip to Zaporozhye. The last time I made a trip like this it was to Beijing and Tianjin China and the dusty dirty air there gave me really bad problems with my sinuses. I still have the same sinus problems so I am wondering what the air quality is like in Zaporozhye.

He already presented to have had personal/historical adverse reaction to 'airborne pollution'. Which and what pollutants they were he reacted to he should have known by now. This would be his *triggers* Are the pollutants in Beijing the same as they are be in Zap? Without having to study it - who knows.

I realize it really is incumbent on all of us to be aware of our own physiological/medical bounds, thus the OP should have noted this during his travel to China. This is a simple process if one have the time to look into. My suspicion is there will likely be more of the same pollutants than not. But that's simply a guess on my part.

To stupidly address this question like a village idiot by saying something like *I was there and didn't *see* any pollution so you have nothing to worry about" is just plain stupid. For someone who was there, in a heavy industrial city with numerous billowing smokehouses spewing unmitigated/unregulated black smoke, and not understand pollutants are being released freely into the atmosphere is beyond stupid to me. I don't know but maybe this is the result of 'free' education in Australia.

Yes. Thousands of folks can visit the city and not be affected by Zap's pollution. Few will be. Hundreds of thousands folks living IN Zap won't likely die of Zap's pollution, but thousands will and have.

Without knowing this person's *triggers* and without fully understanding the pollutants that exists anywhere - why on earth will anyone take the liberty to go blindly forth? Thank goodness the OP was smart enough to research the state of Zap/Ukraine himself and make his own assessment.

[Muzh]

Without knowing this person's *triggers* and without fully understanding the pollutants that exists anywhere - why on earth will anyone take the liberty to go blindly forth? Thank goodness the OP was smart enough to research the state of Zap/Ukraine himself and make his own assessment.

From a public health standpoint, you are absolutely correct. The OP had resevations because he may have some prevalent conditions and if that is the case, he should take all precautions IF he is still going there, or anywhere in Ukraine for that matter.
 
The best for him is to discuss with his primary care physician of his travel intentions. Also, the CDC has a list of vaccinations that are recommended when traveling abroad plus other advisories that may come in handy for people with pre-existing conditions.

[Ooooops]

I wonder if people who make fun of others with health problems were bullies or bullied back in school?

[Brillynt]

I found the following quote in an article about air pollution in Ukraine.

Air pollution is especially severe in many of the heavily industrialized cities and towns of southeastern Ukraine, notably in Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhia. Coal-using industries, such as metallurgical coke-chemical plants, steel mills, and thermal power plants are major sources of high levels of uncontrolled emissions of sulphur dioxide, dust, unburned hydrocarbons, and other harmful substances.

Maybe if I am going there at the end of November it will be better than summer but it really doesn't sound good.

I have yet to see any air pollution in Luhansk or Donetsk. I have made 5 trips to both locations this year and just returned a week ago. I have been there for all four seasons and have not had any issues. I have seen more pollution in NYC and LA compared to Ukraine.

I use tap water for brushing my teeth with no issues, though I only drink bottled water.

[steveboy]

I wonder if people who make fun of others with health problems were bullies or bullied back in school?

I always thought Russian/Ukrainian women liked big strong macho men?

[Daveman]

I have yet to see any air pollution in Luhansk or Donetsk. I have made 5 trips to both locations this year and just returned a week ago. I have been there for all four seasons and have not had any issues. I have seen more pollution in NYC and LA compared to Ukraine.

I use tap water for brushing my teeth with no issues, though I only drink bottled water.

I agree about Donetsk..


The guys do make some excellent points about particulate emissions we can't see though.  *I* didn't have any problems whatsoever, but people with specific sensitivities may very well be adversely affected by that which isn't so obvious.


I wish more definitive data were available.

[CanadaMan]

I have yet to see any air pollution in Luhansk or Donetsk. I have made 5 trips to both locations this year and just returned a week ago. I have been there for all four seasons and have not had any issues. I have seen more pollution in NYC and LA compared to Ukraine.

I've been to Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhia as well as a few other cities in Ukraine.
Of all the cities I've been to, Zap was definitely the worst, pollution-wise.

I want to stress that it wasn't the pollution from the metals industry that was the most noticeable (visible), but rather that from the marshrutkas.

Zap has done away with most of their regular buses and relies pretty much on marshrutkas for public transportation.

The problem with the marshrutkas is that:
a) there is a virtual non-stop line of them flowing along Lenin Ave.
b) there is no 'drive clean' program there; each vehicle belches out thick black smoke that lingers in the air. Just as the air is clearing from one marshrutka another one arrives. Often times two or three are following each other just meters away.

If you're going to Zap you can't avoid Lenin Ave.

[JayH]

Not disputing your  impressions at all--but Lenin is a very wide street and not exactly a confined space where you are trapped  choking curbside by buildings !!
My original point was that there was no reason not to go there and that view is supported by more than 90% in this thread.The OP had quoted the data prior to the negative comments about it being made in the thread.

Regardless--the OP rearranged plans to not go there and stay in Kiev .

[CanadaMan]

Regardless--the OP rearranged plans to not go there and stay in Kiev .

Smart move.   

[Daveman]

Regardless--the OP rearranged plans to not go there and stay in Kiev .

Smart move.   

I told ya we scared the living hell out of him...       Everyone send him PM's telling him that there's a breaking news story that a new burst of radiation from Chernobyl is causing major and immediate mutations in Kiev and the surrounding area.  Before long we'll have him meeting her somewhere like the Canary Islands.

[TomT]

Smart move.   

Yes it was. I'm glad that he had the good sense to ignore some wacked advice.