New guy here, questions on dating sites Ukrainedate and russiancupid

[DonCorleone]

Hello to everyone here,
I'm a long time lurker first time poster here on this site. I've been researching for quite some time the prospect of dating and hopefully marrying a girl from the FSU. I am planning to go with the write many visit few (WMVF) method. I've been meeting my prospects through dating sites, such as Ukrainedate.com and Russiancupid.com. My questions are for those who have experience using these sites. Obviously there are many scammers on these sites. I get many expressions of interest, most of which have not even viewed my profile. So my guess is that they are either scammers, or have just browsed through my photos without viewing my profile. When I message the ones who have expressed interest, I noticed that many of them ask for my email upfront. Should I automatically assume they are scammers? I noticed some who I gave my email address to write many long winded letters. I have written them back and forth, and none have asked for money or anything like that, but I do not wish to continue writing letters if they are likely to be scammers, as it would be a huge waste of time. Has anyone here met genuine women/wives from these sites who write long winded letters? Just hoping to get some feedback from the members on here who have had experience with these dating sites.

[calmissile]

Don,
I met and dated many.....married one!   I can only speak from my personal experience.  The ones that respond without looking at your profile, I would reject.  They are a time waster, or someone that wants a pen pal.

The difficult and time consuming part will be sorting out the likely scammers, pen pals, etc from the genuine prospects.  Many of the letters will be form letters.  Both men and women use them to avoid having to write everything over and over.   One of the techniques I learned on this forum a few years ago is to ask a few specific questions and see if they answer them or if it appears they ignored them (did not even read the letter).  For those that do not respond to questions, put them in the wastebasket also.

Another thing I learned is to not expect the sincere ones to spell out their life history in the first few letters.  Many FSUW are somewhat cautious about providing a lot of personal details until they determine you are a serious prospect.       The world is full of keyboard Romeo's and pen pals, so the gals have just as much concern as we do about wasting each others time.

Lastly, I would not get into any intimate discussions until much later in the frienship/relationship.  The scammers know what buttons to push on a man to get his attention and will often be sending suggestive photos and sexy dialogue to keep your interest ..... until the sick mama in the hospital message comes later.  If your looking for a wife rather than a hooker or scammer, you should just delete them.

As many will suggest to you , there is nothing like getting your feet on the ground and spend as  much time as you can to learn the culture.  Meet as many locals as you can and visit their homes.  You will find FSU people friendly and courteous once the ice is broken and they trust you.  Start building your bankroll because this is not an inexpensive adventure even in the best of circumstances.

Be sure to fully read the free RWD E-Book on this site.

[Shadow]

Welcome to the posters and I hope you will continue to post your questions and opinions.
I will give you a general answer on how I managed to stop scammers being interested. The first thing you should do is stop making any generic letter or information yourself. Treat the email as a personal conversation, and you will understant it is pretty pointless to tell everyone the same story.

Show genuine interest, which includes actually reading the profile and looking at the pictures provided for interesting information, not just the pretty face.
Use this to ask specific questions. Look up the city they are from and ask things about it. If the letter you get back does not answer your specific points but contains a lot of generalities that would hit most non-specific questions, goo chance nobody read what you wrote.

Using the WMVF tactic means that you should not develop any feelings for any of them before visiting. The best way is to visit within short time. If you have made for yourself a rating of who you would expect to be the best match, you might want to change in to a WMVO with the other few as backup.
Once you have set your expectations on someone, it is not easy to let go and give another a honest chance. This unless you have done it before and know you can handle it.

[DonCorleone]

Thanks for the feedback Shadow and Calmissile, much appreciated.  It confirms my initial gut feeling to set aside the ones writing the 'form letters.' I just needed a good kick in the rear because the photos they send make it hard to set them aside

Calmissile,
Just wondering how you managed to date many girls while over there? I've met a handful of prospects but the thing is they all live quite far from each other- St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Nikolaiv. I was thinking of spending 5-6 days in each city and making it a meet and greet/educational experience so that I can get a sense of the different 'vibes' each city has to offer. Using the overnight train each time i travel to a new city, since I don't think I want to fly using Russian airlines considering the recent Kazan crash.

Shadow,
I like the idea of an WMVO approach, but the thing is out of the few prospects I currently have I don't think one in specific stands out head and shoulders above the rest. They all seem equally valid at this point in my search and I think it would take meeting them all in person to find out who would be the right one.

[Anotherkiwi]

  DonCorleone!  Just don't use that handle in your correspondence  !
 

...I've met a handful of prospects but the thing is they all live quite far from each other- St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Nikolaiv. I was thinking of spending 5-6 days in each city and making it a meet and greet/educational experience so that I can get a sense of the different 'vibes' each city has to offer.

If you have that much time to spare, this sounds like a great idea in principle although, from my own experience, I honestly don't think Nikolayev (Mikolaiv) is worth 5 or 6 days (but that's just my opinion).  If you're looking for the cultural/educational side of things, I would rather spend a few days in Odessa, and take the bus to Nikolayev - it's only a couple of hours.  Stay there a couple of days if you want, but it's definitely not a touristical city as far as I could see.  Obviously you would need more time there if you're meeting someone.  Personally, I would spend the whole month in St Petersburg, but I'm biased - I think it's the most beautiful city in the world.
 
 

Using the overnight train each time i travel to a new city, since I don't think I want to fly using Russian airlines considering the recent Kazan crash.

As I wrote in the thread relating to the Kazan crash, don't get paranoid about Russian airlines.  Apart from the outbreak of clapping by the passengers every time a plane lands, it's really not that much different from travelling on a western airline.  The smaller regional airlines seem to be the ones that have trouble - the biggies (Aeroflot proper, S7, Transaero etc) have safety records on a par with any other airline.
 
The only other point I would make, as many have written before, is that you should not leave your visit too long.  Three months seems to be the accepted limit before the women will assume that you're not coming, so it is probably more sensible to have your international travel arrangements all made before you start looking in earnest.  That way you can tell your hot prospects that you will be in Russia/Ukraine in (for example) late March or beginning of June or whenever.
 
If you're thinking of meeting more than one woman in any city, however, be very careful about how and where you arrange your meetings.  There are a couple of very informative trip reports (e.g. TwoBitBandit in Novosibirsk) about the perils and pitfalls involved. 
 
Good luck!

[calmissile]

Thanks for the feedback Shadow and Calmissile, much appreciated.  It confirms my initial gut feeling to set aside the ones writing the 'form letters.' I just needed a good kick in the rear because the photos they send make it hard to set them aside

Calmissile,
Just wondering how you managed to date many girls while over there? I've met a handful of prospects but the thing is they all live quite far from each other- St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Nikolaiv. I was thinking of spending 5-6 days in each city and making it a meet and greet/educational experience so that I can get a sense of the different 'vibes' each city has to offer. Using the overnight train each time i travel to a new city, since I don't think I want to fly using Russian airlines considering the recent Kazan crash.

Shadow,
I like the idea of an WMVO approach, but the thing is out of the few prospects I currently have I don't think one in specific stands out head and shoulders above the rest. They all seem equally valid at this point in my search and I think it would take meeting them all in person to find out who would be the right one.

Don,
For one thing, you are going to need to confine your visit to a geographical area that you can manage.  I would suggest that you select either Russia or Ukraine (I have not been to Russia so will limit my comments to Ukraine).   Unless you are going for several months, I would further limit it to certain regions or cities.

Shadow gave you some excellent advice.  I wish I had followed it earlier in my journey.  Don't get your heart set on someone until after you have met in person and spent some time together.  It is soooo easy to fall in love over Skype and then find out you are not compatible at the first meeting.  Skype is great for initial contact and is even greater for the period of time you both will be waiting for a visa.

Everyone on the forum has their favorite cities and reasons for it.  My personal choice was to find a village gal that would be as comfortable in blue jeans driving a tractor, as she would be in diamonds and lace.       I found the gal, but there are a lot more variables that enter the equation.  The most important (for me) is personality.  If you are seeking a wife to live together with for the rest of your life, you better find someone you can really get along with day in and day out.  Not so easy to evaluate on short visits.

My trip last summer/fall was the most successful of all the trips.  It's best if you read it in the trip reports because it is rather lengthy.  The thumbnail version is that after a previous failure, I decided to just take a lengthy vacation to Ukraine and travel the country much like an overage hippy and enjoy the people and the culture.  I had native families and friends from previous visits that invited me to stay with them whenever I was in country.   It was quite an adventure (and still is).  It was on this trip that I met my wife and chose her (each other) after meeting and dating several wonderful women.

My type of adventure is not for everyone.  Some like the big cities, flashy bars and the night life.  I am more into the getting to know the people at their roots and thoroughly enjoyed all the times at peoples homes as well as to all the neighbors they take you to.  Everyone has their own cup of tea as to what kind of environment they enjoy.  This one was my preference.

No matter how much is advised on the forum, you are likely to find that your personal journey is unique and doesn't exactly match anyone else's.  My suggestion for Ukraine is to go in the summer months.  It is hot, but all the people are out day and night.  You will find many couples out for a stroll at night and you will want to become one of them.  I have a hard time envisioning this in the winter.   

Read everything you can about the culture.  It will make your trip more enjoyable.  It will also help explain some quirks that might otherwise offend you.

There are many historical and cultural sites to see.  My particular interest was the war memorials, museums, and historical sites that I saw on the History Channels.  It was amazing.  I might suggest that you do your research as to what you would like to see and then ask gals in those cities about them.  They may be impressed that you are interested in the history and culture of their country.

As I mentioned earlier, this is not a one time visit journey for most people.  If you are serious, you need to put your mind and wallet fully into the adventure to be successful.  If you have any specific questions you can PM me or email me.  Everything to be said has been said a thousand times on this forum, so no need to try and repeat everthing.

If you are interested in my journey you can find it here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15123.0

Good luck!

[lonedrake]

DonC,

 My wife was a member of Ukrainedate. I did however meet her on allsinglerussiangirls. I don't remember long letters from her. I know I never sent them. I would say the most common letter I received was "Hello, How are you?"

Some form letters are not that long. If I received the same letter twice....it was over.

[Patagonie]

       As you start with the concept of WMVF i would advice you to delete from your list four cities which are Moscow, St Pete, Kiev and Odessa. This will increase your chances from far.
Second to aim only ONE country and if possible one city, preferentially, or two or three not so far (which means no more than half day of travel).
      You would avoid many problems.
      You are performing well, many beginner write to a photo, with chance the photo is giving real answer, they fall in love with the images or the video on skype, in the best case they put their ass in a plane and realise that it is not going to work (this is the best option, the worst is the one week wonder who put the trigger and bring the bride after one shot).
      There are no reasons to invest some feelings on someone you have never met, but usually MEN fall in love very quickly (women are more reasonable on this topic) and so they are trapped for some time (generally they cannot rebound in FSU even if they have schedule and have the abilities to meet one or several backup(s))

     So for the moment you are doing nice. Just take a map to just understand the concept of distance in FSU.

[Shadow]

       As you start with the concept of WMVF i would advice you to delete from your list four cities which are Moscow, St Pete, Kiev and Odessa. This will increase your chances from far.

But only if you are suspecting to impress women with your wallet and passport.
The women in these cities often have better opportunities which means that they will not look for the first mule to get them out. Which actually can be to your advantage.

Try not to look for someone who wants to leave her country, but for someone who does not want to leave.

[Rational_Julia]

Well, long letters are a problem, when they are not coherent with yours. I am a freelance writer and translator and I have a CV on freelance websites, in the CV there is a direct email address of mine. So several times I got "job offers" - either to correspond instead of agency girls or to write series of romantic letters. The most cynical was offer to get foreign guys buy a girl jewellery (supposedly) and salary of such "worker" would be percent of jewellery cost. The probable employer would contact writers through skype, so it would be hard for police to chase him or her. I never replied but they offer good money, so I guess a lot of agencies have "shadow-writing" behind nice photos. That is one more reason not to use agencies. Better use sites like freepersonals.ru

[Елена]

dear man . Sometimes it happens that I write a letter , but do not open the profile of men. ( Not often, but it happens ) profiles often resemble each other . and most importantly , I have a slow internet and the profile can be opened for a long time (highly annoys me ) I think that in the first two letters of the person I know much more than is written in his profile . ( Forgive me if I'm wrong . ) . If the summary information is written the most important thing that interests me , ( whether he agrees that I have a child , and whether it suits my age ) , I too sometimes do not open the full profile , and forward emails from men . I realized that I did not see the profile of men perceive as not respect or scammer . I 'll keep that in mind. I would like to know your opinion . If I have the interest of the man I'm writing a letter to him - " Hey, I liked your profile , I think you are an interesting person , let's get acquainted . " - That's all. And expect him to answer. Tell me it's okay to write that would express my interest. Or is it too short letter ?

[lonedrake]

If I have the interest of the man I'm writing a letter to him - " Hey, I liked your profile , I think you are an interesting person , let's get acquainted . " - That's all. And expect him to answer. Tell me it's okay to write that would express my interest. Or is it too short letter ?

It is very good. One thing you could do is instead of saying "let's get acquainted " you could ask him a question about something from his profile.

 It is much easier to answer a question and it shows you have actually read his profile.

[GQBlues]

 


Happy Thanksgiving Greg! Five bucks sez the Cardinals are gonna kick some Irish butts, man.

[jone]

GQ,

That would be:  Cardinal.

[GQBlues]

From my vantage point there are 11 red-shirted Cardinal players both on offense and defense, yes?

Besides, yah wanna be that technical then tell me since when have fighting Irishmen comprised mostly  of African-American   

[Daveman]

... few prospects I currently have I don't think one in specific stands out head and shoulders above the rest. They all seem equally valid at this point in my search and I think it would take meeting them all in person to find out who would be the right one.

It is entirely likely probable possible that none of them are the "right one".  Not to sour your positivity but I communicated with literally hundreds.  I developed relationships with four very sincere and wonderful ladies, which didn't go the distance to marriage (most will not - guaranteed), and then the fifth one I married after dating her for about two years.


I have no information on those specific websites, but rather a general idea.  Communicate and/or meet with as many as possible, and more importantly, do not rationalize away but rather immediately accept deal breakers when they arise.  Yes, any relationship will require a little adaptation, but I think any clearly thinking individual can recognize a deal breaker if he stops staring at the package long enough to see. At that point, walk away, clear the fantasy dreams, and start over.



Welcome to RWD and good luck!

[Gator]

Don, Skype is your friend.

Just wondering how you managed to date many girls while over there? I've met a handful of prospects but the thing is they all live quite far from each other- St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Nikolaiv. I was thinking of spending 5-6 days in each city and making it a meet and greet/educational experience so that I can get a sense of the different 'vibes' each city has to offer.

I did exactly that in 2002, making the trip a combination of a) travel adventure and b) women.  Visited four cities, and in each I spent time with just one woman who proudly showed me her city.  Each RW took some time off from her job to be with me. 
 
This necessitated many telephone conversations to develop a friendship with each (and eliminating those who never became friendly).  Even so, I had one "no show"   and had to go to Plan B, which involved calling some of the women whom I had eliminated earlier. 
 
 

I like the idea of an WMVO approach, but the thing is out of the few
prospects I currently have I don't think one in specific stands out head and
shoulders above the rest.

Good reason to see only one. 
 
 

They all seem equally valid at this point in my search and I think it would take meeting them all in person to find out who would be the right one.

The WMVM works if you stay in one area and have several candidates to meet.   Personally, I found this awkward for both the women and me.
 
This was a standard MO years ago when many men would become engaged after just one week.   They relied upon an agency to arrange many meetings.  The key reason for WMVM is that many a time the first few minutes of meeting someone can destroy the high expectations build up in WOVO correspondence.  In the WMVM method, men search for chemistry, and not finding it within the first 30 minutes, the woman is eliminated.
 

 
Personally I believe you should be thinking about making many trips over the next 2=3 years.   As Daveman wrote, it may take a few trip to find Ms. Right.  And upon finding Ms. Right, you should meet a few times to build your relationship and confirm your initial feelings.
 
Whatever plan you pursue, I promise that your trip will be enjoyable, interesting and somewhat perplexing.  You will return knowing much more than you do now. 

[Gator]

Try not to look for someone who wants to leave her country, but for someone who does not want to leave.

Great advice, yet there is risk.   I pursued a woman who was a challenge.   After 5 1/2 years, she eventually left Russia.       And her adjustment to America was difficult for another year.   
 
All is well today, very well indeed.   
 
The primary reason for the elongated process was the fact her English was weak.  A second reason is that she had a good life in Russia:  family, friends, culture and men (but none that she loved).

[jone]

From my vantage point there are 11 red-shirted Cardinal players both on offense and defense, yes?

Besides, yah wanna be that technical then tell me since when have fighting Irishmen comprised mostly  of African-American   

That always made me confused too.  Maybe they got dark suntans prior to coming to America working in the potato fields?

[LAman]

That always made me confused too.  Maybe they got dark suntans spots prior to coming to America working in the potato fields?

Uh.....I think those are better know as freckles!!!

[LAman]

       As you start with the concept of WMVF i would advice you to delete from your list four cities which are Moscow, St Pete, Kiev and Odessa. This will increase your chances from far.
Second to aim only ONE country and if possible one city, preferentially, or two or three not so far (which means no more than half day of travel).
      You would avoid many problems.
   

 

I do remember a trip St Pitre, Moscow, Kiev and Simferopol...almost 3 weeks. Had a nice time except the part of repacking, so I didn't always empty the suitcase. It was more to see the sites and meet up with a few women that were interested to show me their cities. 

[DonCorleone]

Everyone on the forum has their favorite cities and reasons for it.  My personal choice was to find a village gal that would be as comfortable in blue jeans driving a tractor, as she would be in diamonds and lace.       I found the gal, but there are a lot more variables that enter the equation.  The most important (for me) is personality.  If you are seeking a wife to live together with for the rest of your life, you better find someone you can really get along with day in and day out.  Not so easy to evaluate on short visits.

Agreed Cal. I think finding a village gal is ideal, since they are less likely to be 'spoiled' than their big city counterparts. I have heard it said that if you're going to look in Kiev or Moscow, then you'd might as well stay home and look in the big cities there-  LA, NYC, etc. . Turns out in my searching I did not get many replies from the ones from smaller towns. The ones who have seemed sincere so far to my surprise are actually from the larger cities- Moscow, St Petersburg, Kiev..

 

I do remember a trip St Pitre, Moscow, Kiev and Simferopol...almost 3 weeks. Had a nice time except the part of repacking, so I didn't always empty the suitcase. It was more to see the sites and meet up with a few women that were interested to show me their cities. 

Sounds similar to my situation. The girls also want to show me their cities. How were the logistics of your trip by the way- travel by plane, train, bus? Were you affected by jet lag? I went to Europe recently and visited over 20 cities in two weeks, so it shouldn't be too much of a shock for me.

It is entirely likely probable possible that none of them are the "right one".  Not to sour your positivity but I communicated with literally hundreds.  I developed relationships with four very sincere and wonderful ladies, which didn't go the distance to marriage (most will not - guaranteed), and then the fifth one I married after dating her for about two years.

Thanks for the reality check Daveman. I hope my search doesn't take that long, but I'm willing to bite the bullet if it does. Two years of international courting must have taken its toll on the bank account I imagine. But at least you did manage to find the needle in the haystack.

dear man . Sometimes it happens that I write a letter , but do not open the profile of men. ( Not often, but it happens ) profiles often resemble each other . and most importantly , I have a slow internet and the profile can be opened for a long time (highly annoys me ) I think that in the first two letters of the person I know much more than is written in his profile . ( Forgive me if I'm wrong . ) . If the summary information is written the most important thing that interests me , ( whether he agrees that I have a child , and whether it suits my age ) , I too sometimes do not open the full profile , and forward emails from men . I realized that I did not see the profile of men perceive as not respect or scammer . I 'll keep that in mind. I would like to know your opinion . If I have the interest of the man I'm writing a letter to him - " Hey, I liked your profile , I think you are an interesting person , let's get acquainted . " - That's all. And expect him to answer. Tell me it's okay to write that would express my interest. Or is it too short letter ?

Perhaps the slow internet connection is a valid excuse for not clicking on a person's profile. But it does raise suspicions if you write someone whose profile you don't bother to open. Just my two cents. In regards to your question, no I don't think that what you wrote is 'too short of a letter.' The problem for me is the women who ask for my emails as their first message. Why would you ask for someone's email right away without first asking a few basic filtering questions? That is what causes me to suspect that she is not a sincere person.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Definitely helping a newbie out here.

[DonCorleone]

       As you start with the concept of WMVF i would advice you to delete from your list four cities which are Moscow, St Pete, Kiev and Odessa. This will increase your chances from far.
Second to aim only ONE country and if possible one city, preferentially, or two or three not so far (which means no more than half day of travel).
      You would avoid many problems.

It definitely wasn't my intention to find girls from these cities specifically. It's just how things have panned out so far. I've heard similar advice before and I see the logic behind it going to one or two or three cities. Since my trip will be in March, I still have time to weed out a few and will probably cut out a couple of the cities on my current list. The logic behind visiting two countries is that you'll never know which one will agree with you until you've actually been there. I could be wrong, I'm just thinking out loud. Since it will be my first trip to the FSU I might as well get a feel for both. I do freelance work so I have the time. From the people who have been to both countries, is there a completely different vibe when crossing the borders from Russia to Ukraine? Is one generally more welcoming, friendlier, and /or  more hospitable than the other? 

[DonCorleone]

Don, Skype is your friend.
 
I did exactly that in 2002, making the trip a combination of a) travel adventure and b) women.  Visited four cities, and in each I spent time with just one woman who proudly showed me her city.  Each RW took some time off from her job to be with me. 
 
This necessitated many telephone conversations to develop a friendship with each (and eliminating those who never became friendly).  Even so, I had one "no show"   and had to go to Plan B, which involved calling some of the women whom I had eliminated earlier. 
 

Gator,
Out of those four cities, did you develop a liking for any of them in particular?

[LAman]

It definitely wasn't my intention to find girls from these cities specifically. It's just how things have panned out so far. I've heard similar advice before and I see the logic behind it going to one or two or three cities. Since my trip will be in March, I still have time to weed out a few and will probably cut out a couple of the cities on my current list. The logic behind visiting two countries is that you'll never know which one will agree with you until you've actually been there. I could be wrong, I'm just thinking out loud. Since it will be my first trip to the FSU I might as well get a feel for both. I do freelance work so I have the time. From the people who have been to both countries, is there a completely different vibe when crossing the borders from Russia to Ukraine? Is one generally more welcoming, friendlier, and /or  more hospitable than the other?

Don.....some guys plan trips when they are able to travel( timing at work) and at times difficult for timing with girls. Another is timing on girls in different areas/countries, you don't want to buy ticket at last moment. One way I have circumvented this is to buy ticket for my destination city, most times it is Moscow or Kiev, and depending on city to visit purchase flight/s out of these cities. If more visits are to say Ukraine than Russia, use multi-city
route and fly into Moscow and return through Kiev (as an example).
You spoke of how I travel.....mostly always through flights, rarely on trains or buses, I try to get to my destination/s quickly. Just over time you develop a plan/s you are comfortable with.