First trip

[Elen]

Elen, in Russia, we (foreigners) still have to go thru the ordeal in registering our visa's and passport

If I inform you that I as naitive moskovite has a similar kind of registration (propiska) in my pasport (and have to change it with any new flat i live ) would it makes you happy?

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[Albert]

Bruno, you are one of the sharpest guys here . . . so I was surprised at your response.  Obviously you misinterpreted my post.  Of course I didn't mean the woman should pretend she likes you if she really doesn't.

I will try to be more clear.  If a guy goes to meet only one woman, he will be left up shit creek without a paddle if things do not work out.  He will be left to flounder for days or weeks (whatever the length of the visit) in a strange city, without language skills, without friends, etc.  He may try to line up dates with other women, but this will not be nearly the same as meeting with women whom he has  corresponded with for several weeks.

On the other hand, the single woman he went to meet will not experience one whit of change in her life.  She has not spent a dime for travel expenses, she has not used up her yearly vacation time, she is not in a strange city with no language skills, etc.  She can go home, invite her friends over to discuss the bad experience she had in meeting the foreign man, have a glass of wine, and carry on her normal life the next day.

But, despite this total 180 degree difference in the outcomes for the man and woman, only 1 woman out of 100 will ever agree that the man should not limit himself to meeing only one woman on a trip.  This is why you CANNOT be honest with them.

[Bruno]

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Bruno, you are one of the sharpest guys here . . . so I was surprised at your response. 
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I don't feel myself sharp... but sometime i can be difficult... for change my meaning, i need strong argument of some proof... and my responce surprise you because for one time, i am not on the side of man... i try to see the two side of the problem... the man of woman side...


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If a guy goes to meet only one woman, he will be left up **** creek without a paddle if things do not work out.  He will be left to flounder for days or weeks (whatever the length of the visit) in a strange city, without language skills, without friends, etc.  He may try to line up dates with other women, but this will not be nearly the same as meeting with women whom he has  corresponded with for several weeks.
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It can be the same situation for woman who go to US with K1... several man use the K1 for test the woman... and i remember that K1 is a FIANCE visa, it is used for go married... it is the rule of the game and you cannot win each time...

Strange city : why don't search information before your trip... a lot of tourist guide are publish in several linguage... if love don't appear in your trip, use it like holliday...

Without language skills : English become universal language, it can help you a lot... and why not learn some basic of russian, it can make you lady happy...

Without friends : make new one...

Of course, i have easy to say this, i have some experience about this... i was in Navy during 9 year and visit several country... in the begin, it was not easy in unknow country but with time, i have learn how to ready my stay in other country... learn a basic of english was the first ( with French and Dutch, i was enough limited ), internet allow to find several information for plan some visit...


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On the other hand, the single woman he went to meet will not experience one whit of change in her life.  She has not spent a dime for travel expenses, she has not used up her yearly vacation time, she is not in a strange city with no language skills, etc.  She can go home, invite her friends over to discuss the bad experience she had in meeting the foreign man, have a glass of wine, and carry on her normal life the next day.
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Not so sure... in our western country, we have holliday pay by the boss... ( except if you are boss yourself but in these case, you have enough money )... but in Russian of Ukraine, it is other... When i have meet Galina, she have ask holliday and receive it but she was not pay during these holliday... and these losse of money was a big problem for her... these money was needed for pay some bill... and i have help her... Some boss don't like when woman meet foreign man and they can loose her job too.

In these case, it was my choice to go in Ukraine... Until the US gouverment don't allow tourist visa to woman from FSU, you need to support the consequence of the choice of your gouverment... it is not the responsability from the woman. For us, European, the woman can visit us with tourist visa... we have the choice...


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But, despite this total 180 degree difference in the outcomes for the man and woman, only 1 woman out of 100 will ever agree that the man should not limit himself to meeing only one woman on a trip.  This is why you CANNOT be honest with them.
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1 on 100... perfect, you have find the only one one who appreciate your honesty... and if you start with 800 woman, you go have 8 woman for meeting during your trip. Remember some other post... it is a number "game"...

[Marc Dayton]

Visa registration hassle in Russia.

Gee 20 times or more I have been to Russia never had one single problem. any hotel will stamp your pass port for free with no problem.

My service gets it done for free for are men. same day as he gets to are office. Their  are other ways for $ 10 are $ 20 dollers too.

You can also get a 1 year visa for about $ 750 from a service that that dose this kind of thing.

Try Ellas travil, Russian own 408-255-1211

[Tagger585]

I have still not made my trip yet...  it got postponed a month due to business here in denver, but...  I am having the same dilemma about being honest with the ladies.  I want to be fair and honest, but when I am, they seem to take offense.  I had been writing to one lady for about a month and I really liked our conversations.  She was 7 years younger than myself and in my eyes ...she was beautiful.  On one letter she wrote to me that she thinks I am deceiving her and that I also write to other ladies.  I had never told her that she was the only one I was writing to and the only indications I had given her were that I would like to meet her and get to know her better.  Anyway, I did confess that I was writing to 2 additional ladies and that I may meet them also on my trip... BAD MOVE...  I don't know what she said in her last letter, but my translator program did not recongize half of the words she was using...  Needless to say, that was our last letter exchange.  How can we explain to them that we are not coming over to get laid and not to bring home a wife... we would just like to respectfully meet several ladies to see if there would be an opportunity to develop a more serious relationship?  Do RW never date more than one man at a time even though there is not an exclusive relationship formed?

Thanks,

taggs

[Albert]

Bruno, yes it appears I was wrong about you.

And . . .  your response to my post has absolutely no correspondence with anything I posted.    I spoke of eggs and your responses were about potatoes.   But, I know English is not your first language, so nothing can be accomplished in further give and take.

[Bruno]

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Do RW never date more than one man at a time even though there is not an exclusive relationship formed?
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Taggs, do you meet several ladies in same time in your own country ? I don't think ! But the situation is a little different in our case... we cannot make several trip year for meeet several lady... the time and expense for so trip lead to try meet several woman.


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How can we explain to them that we are not coming over to get laid and not to bring home a wife... we would just like to respectfully meet several ladies to see if there would be an opportunity to develop a more serious relationship?
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The problem with you guys, it is that you always wait when it is too late... why don't explain it directly in your introduction letter... explain that you are really marriage minded but that you wish keep all the opportunity until you make your definitive choice... not have not lie to these woman but you have hide the true... and more you have wait, more bad is the situation... Be honest from the very beginning is a GOLDEN rule...

 

[Bruno]

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Bruno, yes it appears I was wrong about you.

And . . .  your response to my post has absolutely no correspondence with anything I posted.    I spoke of eggs and your responses were about potatoes.   But, I know English is not your first language, so nothing can be accomplished in further give and take.

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Yes, English is not my first language... and not the second too... and sometime, people use word difficult to translate... by example when you write "sharpest guys", i understand two different meaning possible : of it is a guys who see clearly thing, of it is a guys enough offensive in what he say...

Maybe your "I know English is not your first language, so nothing can be accomplished in further give and take" can be used with man already married with RW in case of discussion, it is a beautiful method for say "shut up"

Of course in you previous post, you speak about you visiting woman and i reply about woman visiting you... why ? Because you can see that the situation is not very different from one side to other...

And your conclusion : "This is why you CANNOT be honest with them" because only 1 on 100 go accept it... you start a long term relationship on a lie ! It is because of so post that RW think that we lie always and we are not honest.

[wsbill]

I totally agree, make sure the lady knows up front that you are interested in marriage.  Otherwise, you'll just be somebodies chump.  I wish I could be coming over with you guys.  But, the piece of advice I can give you is to read this message board as well as a few others.

Just do me a favor and tell us about your trip and what you encountered (pros/cons).

The FSU is a interesting place, though I was in Kiev in 2001.   My guess, if I might be able to make it back in 2007 or 2008.   Hate to say it but I'm broke, and this adventure will most definately cost you a small fortune.

I must admit I started out, just going over to see the place never really desiring to meet a lady.  The girl I hooked up with had a 4yo boy, but due to my finanical shape or for the lack of a better term - no real solid job.  I strung her along and frankly that's not a very nice thing to do.  Wait til you go over and see the kind of poverty they have live in.  It's a mess.   The little boy had a thyroid problem because of Chernoble as all that radioactive was flowed down the Dniper and contaminated pretty much every little kid in their country.   I mean, think about it.  These people make about $20 a month paycheck.   So, when you poor you go fishing, eat the fish and get all these nasty diseases from contamination.   The real irony is it's not just Ukraine but Belruse.

You guys will see.   It's a real wake up call to see how their government pretty much left them high and dry.  Communism really is a bunch of balony!  The men fare way, way better than the ladies, who have to turn to prostitution to put food on the table for their families...  I've heard in Moscow, family members and personal friends have actually sold off them off for the almighty buck.

Go there with a open mind and so when you return home you can thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

[Elen]

No comments to

I've heard in Moscow, family members and personal friends have actually sold off them off for the almighty buck.

 

So boy let's better stay in yours America. We don't need such close mind persones here.

 

 

 

[Elen]

You boys come here looking for fun and pick up the first hooker you met at a street. And then you makes conclusions about all women, the whole country and even about Communism (btw under communism nobody had to sell herself for putting  foods at family table)

Let's pay a visit to yurs american prostitutes and hear out their sob stories about awuful capitalism ( I suppose you are not going to say me that in such paradase like America there is no prostitution at all. are you?)

[Photo Guy]

 snip.. What this means is that you CANNOT be honest with these women.  That is not the ideal way to start out a relationship. but the irrational viewpoint of the women dictate this action.

Elena of Elena's Models, in her ebook makes a very strong
argument for visiting just one woman. She makes the point that
in a multiple date scenario, each woman will intuitively know
you are seeing other women, and this will sabotage any
relationship. (except for scammers?) And of course if you tell her
you will be in Kiev for another four days without seeing her,
it will be obvious to her what you are doing. When a woman senses
that you are deeply infatuated with her and her alone, that can be
a potent seductive element in the relationship, can't it? I wish women understood the pragmatism of multiple dating, but it seems there must be some genetic rationale for their disdain. Women need to
feel special and adored. Meeting a bunch of women will make a woman feel insignificant, not special. Dishonesty can be perceived.   -doug L.

[Photo Guy]

You boys come here looking for fun and pick up the first hooker you met at a street. And then you makes conclusions about all women, the whole country and even about Communism (btw under communism nobody had to sell herself for putting  foods at family table)
Let's pay a visit to yurs american prostitutes and hear out their sob stories about awuful capitalism ( I suppose you are not going to say me that in such paradase like America there is no prostitution at all. are you?)

When you say 'you boys', are you referring to every guy here?
Generalizations are such a bore, no? Over here, we're individualists. We've been affected by the Renaissance. It would
be hard for most of us to accept a communal lifestyle. There are many things wrong with capitalism, and the US is very imperfect
as are most countries. On the other hand, democracy is just
about the best form of government, in my opinion. It will take some time for Russia and the former Soviet Union to realize that capitalism with a little bit of corruption is far different from capitalism with a lot of corruption. There has to be a system of justice in place,
to limit the amount of corruption. Corruption and a lack of law can
kill the benefits of capitalism in any country. There's nothing positive
about discussing the superiority or inferiority of one nation
compared with another. I'm not looking for a woman who is desperate to escape her awful country. If you are, you could easily
screw yourself, or both of you.  -doug L.  

[Elen]

Ah, what a nice words!  Just a  honey for a heart of poor females:D:D

 ( this is not to the last post but to the previous one)

You are right Photo guy. We feel "that" with our 6th sense. I read at Russian board the stories told by girls. There are a lot of them where boy was put down just because a girls guessed she was not the only one. So that problem should be solved in some way (don't know what this way may be, though :?. Life is so complicate...)

[Elen]

When you say 'you boys', are you referring to every guy here?

They do know who I address to. Dot;t take this personally

[Bruno]

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Go there with a open mind and so when you return home you can thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

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Bill, what is a civilized country... i have never see metal detector in russian school like in some US school because of problem with weapon... drugs is a problem too in our country... now, it is beginning in Russia too but before it was a not a problem.... and what say about aids who his growing in Russia... again something who go from outside... and maybe search a post from JB about people who life in US in a ... i don't remember good the name, i think "traler"...

It is not a problem of civilized country but from other country with other culture... good and bad exist everywhere... i have visit US and you have someplace who are not better that Russia... and in Belgium too...

[line]
Let's pay a visit to yurs american prostitutes and hear out their sob stories about awuful capitalism ( I suppose you are not going to say me that in such paradase like America there is no prostitution at all. are you?)

[line]

Elena, you have prostitution where you have money... in russia, it is grow up because the opening of the country... someone need to take care of the money from these western man.... and in russia, except in the very big city, the prostitution is not a problem because man have no problem for find a woman... Why russian man go pay for hooker when they can have so much woman they wish...

Doug, the only one woman is the method i have choice but it take a very long time for make the final choice... i have meet one but in the beginning, i have write to several and direct say that i was writing to several... and the time have narrow my choice

[Elen]

It will take some time for Russia and the former Soviet Union to realize that capitalism with a little bit of corruption is far different from capitalism with a lot of corruption. There has to be a system of justice in place,
to limit the amount of corruption.

 And socialism without corruption is even more better thing:D:D:D

[Elen]

Why russian man go pay for hooker when they can have so much woman they wish..

  Because there are no such things in this world as "free-of-pay" ones:D:D

To get "so much women as you wish" is means you should pay for that with your
charm, kindness, gentless, compliments, with love at last for every woman.

For many men it's easy to pay money for thier "needs":?

[Bruce]

Elen, from my experience in Russia I strongly agree with you that socialism without corruption was a better system then what so far has replaced it.  I am slightly optimistic that what will eventually emerge will be better for your country (I am hopeful).  Russia needs patriots right now as much as it ever did.  However, from what I have heard I believe there was a certain amount of corruption during Soviet times as well, though at a much lower extent than today.  Putin has a tremendously difficult job to do - so I think it is easy to criticize him, but I am sure I do not know the facts he is looking at, so I would make an uneducated criticism for sure.  Therefore, I can only tell you that he looks like a strong, disciplined leader who gives Russia a strong image at least in my mind from afar. 

[Elen]

Yeah! Patriots are just exactly what Russia needs. But the odd thing money and patriotism (as well as conscience) were always  incompatible things in Russia:? And even Putin can do nothing about that

[Photo Guy]

How are money and conscience incompatible?  -doug L.

[Elen]

How?  What didn't you never see how people lost conscience and went at dead bodies  trying to gain as much money as possibble? You are lucky to live in Wonder land:D Welcome to the post-communist Russia to see how it coud be!:D

[Bruno]

Elena, if you read all the post of Doug, you go understandt him more easily... he is a man who believe that romantism have always a place in these world... he is one of the good guy... his value are more moral that financial... it is his charm but in the same time, he is a easy prey for bad woman... some time he can be like a child but he is always honest...

I wish him to find the right woman because he is able to make her happy... he is maybe one of the best guy who post here...

[Elen]

Phew!:shock: I'm not about Doug at all!!

I'm about Russia and money, and about how Russians (many of them) see compatibility of money and conscience. And when I tell "money" in such "abstract  reasonings" I don't mean those "remains" (KIDDING - until you take this persolnal again) but those "money" our "smart" democrats "do" here in Russia. (because my reply was to the post about future of Russia)

[Bruno]

Ooopssss... i have think that your reply was for Doug... Sorry :?