Exploitation: Real, imagined, or deliberately disingenuous?

[Daveman]

No, besides your misuse of the term, the waving of the flag came when you declared, laughably I might add, that you had proven categorically that there was no unfair exploitation in the MOB. Lol

That's your response?  If you're going to bail from the discussion with non sequiturs, AND in ad hominem fashion, at least come up with a quip of which you can feel a modicum of consolation pride.

[Ade]

That's your response?  If you're going to bail from the discussion with non sequiturs, AND in ad hominem fashion, at least come up with a quip of which you can feel a modicum of consolation pride.

Ah, I see where you misunderstood now, perhaps it's easier for you if I say, "your flag waving ..." ?

And what, pray tell, is "an ad hominem fashion". I just don't see the non sequiturs either.

Try to remember what Rumi said about polishing your mirror.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Sounds like a good time for a new Blah blah blah thread, no?

[Ade]

Sounds like a good time for a new Blah blah blah thread, no?

That's right, no, it isn't.

[LiveFromUkraine]

That's right, no, it isn't.

Damn, you exploited my brain again.

[Ade]

Damn, you exploited my brain again.

But it was done in fairness so it's okay.

[Slumba]

I seem to be doing something wrong, maybe the non-MOBers, the true royalty of RWD, among us can help me out?

Aside from one of the Ukrainian girls I contacted, none of them sought to use me for my money or my passport.

When I broached the subject of visiting, one thought that we could walk along the beach and talk a lot; another suggested bowling and lots of walking.

Of the Russian girls I am in contact with:

one earns some $5K a month (I estimate) in Russia, and has made multiple trips to various places such as a 5 star resort in Thailand, London, England, the USA, Switzerland, package tours to other places, etc. which she has paid for out of her own earnings.  She must be some kind of nutcase, given that she still wants to be in contact with me.  Obviously a mentally unstable woman, given the low likelihood that I will be able to exploit her non-poor self.

one that I spent time with while I was in Volgograd, spent some 8 hours with me over 3 dates, causing me to spend, I think, about $11 USD for tea, and a further $3.25 USD for a ride for the both of us, in the city park's simple Ferris wheel. Oh, and 40 rubles for an ice cream sandwich similar to what American call a "Klondike" bar.

another, having spent some time in the USA as an au pair, seems to be playing the "long game" with me, never asking for money, always smiling over Skype and laughing at my jokes, etc.  in order to further disarm me for the "long con" she tells me of time spent with her nephew.

I tell you, I feel so woefully inadequate compared to the rest of you, who seem to be able to exploit these pretty young things with impunity. 

You are all Supermen (Batmen?!?) compared to me. 

Is my money not good enough for them?  What?

[Ade]

I have to say that I'm continually amazed at the poor reading and comprehension skills exhibited in this thread.

[JayH]

Slumba --you are such a greedy man !!  How many times have you been told that you must go shopping and buy boots !!How do you expect to exploit anyone with a $3 ferris wheel ride? !!!!

[Ade]

And poor thinking skills too.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I seem to be doing something wrong, maybe the non-MOBers, the true royalty of RWD, among us can help me out?

Sure thing my man but we need some more info.


How old are you and what age are you dating there?


Do you date within the same age range you are looking to marry in Russia?  If not, why do you think Russian women would make an exception when American women would not?


On the beauty scale, do you date prettier girls in Russia or are they the same as what you date in America?

[JayH]

Slumba likes super model types-- less than half his age,  1/4 his weight and 6-8 inches taller than him.Also to advantage will be if she can earn enough to keep him in the style that he wishes to become accustomed.

[Anotherkiwi]

Slumba likes super model types-- less than half his age,  1/4 his weight and 6-8 inches taller than him.Also to advantage will be if she can earn enough to keep him in the style that he wishes to become accustomed.

How do you know what he looks like?  You can't exactly take GQBlues' word for it that he's 5 feet tall and 400 pounds overweight!

Just as a hypothetical, applied to me:

1. less than half his age - OK, I suppose I could live with that.  Whether or not she could is another story.  As I'm over 50, at least she'll be a reasonable age.

2. 1/4 his weight - no way do I want to date Barbie.  20 to 25 kg is in the emaciated Biafran class, and I'm not into that sort of exploitation.  Half my weight is acceptable.

3. 6-8 inches taller than him - I have no need to date a member of the Russian basketball team.  If you combine that with the weight factor, you'll get something that even the Star Wars producers didn't dare create.  Someone of average height will do very nicely, thank you.

4. the money factor - now you're talking!  Forget the earnings - just give me the mobile phone numbers for two or three oligarchs' daughters and I should be set for life...or death  .

[missAmeno]

missAmenoBack in Reply number 32 of this thread a few days ago, I wrote a post wherein I basically agreed with you.
I fully expected to get a congratulatory posting from you . . . but I never saw it!!
What is this crap that you can continue to debate with non-believers, but have not the time to acknowledge a believer??
I am very hurt by this.

ML, please accept my deepest apologies for not acknowledging your support on time.
It was not my intention to ignore you and/or your views on the matter. The only excuse available for my poor behavior is that I am a human being who took advantage of long awaited holidays and to my sincere regret didn't pay enough attention to those who supported me on this thread.
In the future, I have every intention to be more attentive and adjust my behavior.

Again, I am sorry for my actions and hope we can put this matter behind us. I look forward to read more of your thoughts on the subject.

Sincerely,
MissA

[Gator]

I have to say that I'm continually amazed at the poor reading and comprehension skills exhibited in this thread.

There is also the art of communicating.  I assert that if  the majority of readers can not comprehend your debating points, you are not communicating. 


I read your posts and I perceived your primary debating point  as follows:   If a man dates a woman whose income is much lower than his, he is exploiting the economic situation to his benefit (and thereby to her detriment). 


You do not give examples of what you mean by exploitation.  Examples would help your communication.  For example, do you believe that the typical exploiter feels the woman should be eternally grateful to him?  Or worse, do you believe the typical exploiter feels he has the right to dominate his FSUW, place her in a hierarchical relationship?  Even worse, enslave her?   

IMO, these are extreme examples of wrong doing, yet your history here suggests these examples could be in your mind.   

[missAmeno]

Interesting, as my other point that i did not delve into,
was that a great deal of marriages are entered into with economic disparity ,regardless.
So where would one draw the line of exploitative

I think that line would be blurred somewhere in between 2 stages of the process.
First stage is when guy made conscious decision to seek SO from economically deprived region. I am actually very curious to understand what factors contributed to such decision. Of course over time I have been registered with forums I have been reading sufficient load of delusional excuses as well as few good valid points. Still I feel that I haven't found satisfactory answer why guys do this.
From my observations line gets blurred somewhere either during search, visits and formation of relationship which I would call second stage.

[Gator]

......Still I feel that I haven't found satisfactory answer why guys do this.

Silly answer.  Why does a dog lick his balls?  Because he can.   People frequently say this joke yet invariably leave out the next part which is the important, real reason:  Because no one else will do it for him.   

My answer: I divorced from a long marriage, I had no trouble dating women, they were fine women but not compatible enough to enter an exclusive relationship (so they said goodbye), my ex-wife introduced me to Internet dating sites saying there were tens of thousands of women, soon I saw the RW agency banner,  and I was amazed at the ease in having sincere correspondence with many intelligent pretty women.    I enjoy traveling, I had  international working experience, having resided abroad for three years,  so why not make the trip. 

[Gator]

MissAmeno,

Your recent elaborations reveal that your position is fairly aligned with mine.   I feel better as the last thing on my mind was to take advantage of a woman.

I do not know about the vast majority of MOBers.  All I know is what I have observed when meeting many AM-RW couples.   Most of these relationships  seem balanced, and the men have their heart in the right place.  Some couples indeed have "large" age differences and other differences (including intellect) that will become more of a factor as life progresses, children become older, the RW more capable of supporting herself, etc. 

   
For sure men have been given the opportunity to meet pretty young women.  Economic conditions are a contributing factor to creating this opportunity to meet.  As is the RW being unlucky in love, wanting adventure, seeking better career opportunities, hype such as RM being drunkards and bad fathers, etc.  Once the meeting occurs, I feel that most RW are competent enough to choose what is best for them.  The worst will select the first mule, but most will enter in good faith. 

Then again I am an optimist.

[missAmeno]

Using a word like 'exploitation' is unnecessary,  and I believe incorrect, when you consider how it is normally used.  Exploitation is saved for heinous situations like child prostitution or forced labor...using it in the context you are using it unconsciously and indirectly equates it to those such activities..IMO   So yeah you are going to get a lot of push-back on that?[/size]

I feel that word is correct. For you Ukraine is a country on a map. For me it is homeland. For you guys trying to get best deal they could. For me they exploit misfortunes of my homeland. Would you remain indifferent if some guys across world decided weight of their wallets entitles them to something in your homeland?

I mean if you want to include every lonely man that has written an initial letter and never traveled that gets you closer...but why even count those pretenders?   

Because they exist. What the point pretend they are not existent.

[alex330]

I think that line would be blurred somewhere in between 2 stages of the process.
First stage is when guy made conscious decision to seek SO from economically deprived region. I am actually very curious to understand what factors contributed to such decision. Of course over time I have been registered with forums I have been reading sufficient load of delusional excuses as well as few good valid points. Still I feel that I haven't found satisfactory answer why guys do this.
From my observations line gets blurred somewhere either during search, visits and formation of relationship which I would call second stage.

I would tend to think that for most men these days it would be this -

Yes. The majority of guys using MOB sites don't give the economical situation in Ukraine or Russia any thought at all.

Men sign up on a MOB site because they see a banner ad with a bunch of hot babes. Bow-chicka-bow-wow! For the majority of men, that's about it.

Maybe I am naive and give too much credit to my fellow human beings? But I agree that if a man deliberately begins to search with premeditated intentions of a desperate woman it does change things a bit. In any case it usually ends up backfiring on the man eventually.

Fortunately I do not think this is as common anymore. We know quite a few women in Ukraine that are going through some rough times right now and a foreign man is the last thing on their mind.

[alex330]

I feel that word is correct. For you Ukraine is a country on a map. For me it is homeland. For you guys trying to get best deal they could. For me they exploit misfortunes of my homeland.

Do you honestly that most of the men are actually trying to take advantage of women due to Ukraine's economic situation?
I agree there are men like this, but I would not think the majority.

[fathertime]

Now, now Mr time, you should let go of all that angst and anger as others have done.

But I'd like to point out to you that I'm not here to teach you or anyone else English even though I posted that wiki out of pity that one time earlier. However, you shouldn't count on my language help in the future. If you are unable to understand a word from its use or the context then I suggest you take some remedial English lessons.

PS. You really should learn how to use the forum formatting too.

You have become fearful and run away from your use of 'punter' earlier in the thread...I think it is funny that you have shown zero courage...I don't agree entirely with certain other posters, but they have presented their case...you have proven to be too cowardly to even do that...probably because you actually just thought you were going to insult with impunity...now that the tables are turned all your 'strength' is drained.   


Go ahead and let the forum know what you meant when you called the forum poll members 'punters'..why so afraid?


Fathertime! 

[missAmeno]

Do you honestly that most of the men are actually trying to take advantage of women due to Ukraine's economic situation?
I agree there are men like this, but I would not think the majority.

Alex, you are doing same thing Dave have been doing previously in this thread.
Taking advantage of economic deprivation is not same as talking advantage of women.

[fathertime]

I feel that word is correct. For you Ukraine is a country on a map. For me it is homeland. For you guys trying to get best deal they could. For me they exploit misfortunes of my homeland. Would you remain indifferent if some guys across world decided weight of their wallets entitles them to something in your homeland?

Well I have several points to make regarding how you have chosen to describe the situation.


1.  Indifferent:  I think there is a difference between being indifferent, and labeling men 'exploiters' when the stigma of the word is so derogatory. 


2. Entitles:  Do men really feel entitled?  I sure didn't...I felt grateful that any woman would find me to be worthwhile.  If you feel men are walking around feeling entitled, then that is your judgement, and perhaps you ran across some arrogant jackarses along the way.  I never felt entitled, the few that do go around peacocking, give a bad name to the rest of us that don't. 


3.  Fat wallets in my homeland:  Well a fat  foreign wallet here in the states does buy things and even people...i.e. servants...so I really don't take umbrage over that.   That is just the way the world is.  No point for me to complain about it, some people have more money than others, for whatever reason.


Ultimately the way you choose to describe the situation is fairly harsh in my opinion...maybe you have some personal reasons for feeling this way. 


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

I think that line would be blurred somewhere in between 2 stages of the process.
First stage is when guy made conscious decision to seek SO from economically deprived region. I am actually very curious to understand what factors contributed to such decision. Of course over time I have been registered with forums I have been reading sufficient load of delusional excuses as well as few good valid points. Still I feel that I haven't found satisfactory answer why guys do this.
From my observations line gets blurred somewhere either during search, visits and formation of relationship which I would call second stage.

Factors as to why I traveled: 

1.  As a single man, I saw beautiful women from far away lands that seemed to be willing to give me a look. 

2.  I realized that perhaps many of these younger women would give me an opportunity to prove myself...because of my flowing hair ability and willingness to provide a more comfortable, stable/safe, life. 

3.  Ultimately, I am not risk adverse, so why not make some trips and see what this is all about....and discover...WOW these ladies are the real deal...I can find a beautiful younger wife and my value is greater because i have hypnotizing eyes  the ability to provide a comfy lifestyle for wife/kids...and maybe my neanderthal features can grow on the right woman.

4.  Worked for me...

Fathertime!