Calling All Old Posters-- ie Those missing on Forum for some time

[KenC]

We cannot judge if her choice was stupid or not because we do not know her opportunity cost, what she gave up to be with Ken. If she married a man of her age, it does not mean she would have a career, kids and family by now. She could be at exactly the same place she is right now, regardless of the age of her first husband.

VWRW,
Interesting topic: opportunities gained or lost with an older husband?  What are your thoughts?
I see it as a "push" if you take kids out of the equation.

[Daveman]

The Tale of Two Lena's seems to contrast the outcomes of those with ambition, drive, desire for something more to those without. 

[missAmeno]

I believe the biggest indicator that a person benefited much from a marriage is amicable conduct of the person toward ex. People who feel their marriage  was not beneficial for them , that they were exploited usually feel anger and want retaliation. These people will try to harm their ex by denying child visitations or trying to get all the marital assets as the reimbursement for their suffering and so on.

Lena, on the other hand, said no to what she was given at divorce. I guess she felt she benefited enough from her marriage without taking  what was given to her at divorce.

I do not know anything about people involved and/or any details of their marriage/divorce but that sounds more like pride than benefited in other way.


Nevertheless I feel this uncalled for discussion about KenC's ex wife is well beyond of inappropriate and unkind.

[vwrw]

The Tale of Two Lena's seems to contrast the outcomes of those with ambition, drive, desire for something more to those without.

I did not read the tale of second Lena, and there are 23 pages to it. Could you give me a short summary on how her life turned out?

[pitbull]

I do not know anything about people involved and/or any details of their marriageorce but that sounds more like pride than benefited in other way.


Nevertheless I feel this uncalled for discussion about KenC's ex wife is well beyond of inappropriate and unkind.

I think it is a great educational discussion about age gap marriages and their outcomes, especially for RW.


Looks like the current RWD policy is to sweep anything other than sugar-coated kissy-kissy exchanges under the rug, so this discussion will probably be shut down soon.

[vwrw]

VWRW,
Interesting topic: opportunities gained or lost with an older husband? 

Certainly, opportunities are gained and lost with an older husband, in my case the value of  opportunities gained much exceeds the value of losses. Knowing everything I know now,  I would marry my husband again if I was given a chance to change my past. I do not feel like I want to go in details about it though.

[calmissile]

The Tale of Two Lena's seems to contrast the outcomes of those with ambition, drive, desire for something more to those without.

That's how I read it as well. 

From what I have read in this thread, it appears that KenC did everything he could to motivate her to improve herself and it was her choice to do nothing!  Somehow, I cannot feel sorry for her, nor fault Ken for choosing a younger/beautiful wife.  Age has nothing to do with it.  She is/was not motivated to improve herself, even with the help and support of her husband.

Room and Board?    LOL

Yea, I guess if you have the option of free room and board perhaps you aren't motivated to improve youself.  On the other hand, if she were home raising kids there would have been a legitimate excuse for not going to school, etc.   Blaming someone else for your failings might get sympathy in some quarters, but not here.

[Daveman]

I did not read the tale of second Lena, and there are 23 pages to it. Could you give me a short summary on how her life turned out?

Northkape will need to fill in the details, but from what i gather, she has a bright future in the field of Law working for the government.

I think it is a great educational discussion about age gap marriages and their outcomes, especially for RW.

Seems to me to be more in line with personal opportunities gained/squandered as opposed to age gap marriages and their outcomes

Looks like the current RWD policy is to sweep anything other than sugar-coated kissy-kissy exchanges under the rug, so this discussion will probably be shut down soon.

The current RWD policy is to enforce the ToS, eliminate the personal attacks as well as superfluous forum trolling - as has been iterated and reiterated numerous times.  If members cannot express themselves in a non sugar-coated manner without the name calling and/or personal attacks, then that's their own problem of communication failure. 

The removal of unnecessary mud does not apply a sugar coating.  Discuss, debate, talk about what you want in a manner permitted by the forum rules.  Pretty simple.

[KenC]

VWRW,
Understandable.
Pitbull,
I mistakenly thought you were blaming me for my ex's wasted time.  Young people think they have all the time in the world while older people know they do not.

[vwrw]

Pitbull, I also misunderstood you at first. Now I see what you meant.


Yes, marriage to an older man may bring many resources for young woman to grow faster than she could otherwise. He has already been there, done that and can help her navigate through to her goals. Yet, you can bring a horse to water but you cannot make the horse to drink it.


A lesson to girls aspiring to marry an old dude to get some of his assets at divorce after a period of doing nothing, don't do it. There will be a bunch of trusts and other devices to prevent those dreams from coming true. However, if a woman is driven by ethical goals and hopes that her more experienced and successful partner can help her to get there faster, she is in the  right place. The experience he will pass on to her will be very valuable.


Not all of us are aspiring to build career. Lena might want to have an emotionally and financially secure life where she can explore things that are of interest to her. Ken provided that opportunity to her, and she enjoyed it. It does not make her choice stupid.  It is just her way to be happy.

[vwrw]

I do not know anything about people involved and/or any details of their marriageorce but that sounds more like pride than benefited in other way.

That could be pride if she was asking for much but got so little that it seemed demining to her to take that. However, she did not ask for anything, yet she was given her share at divorce as the law mandates and she did not take it.

[Misha]

Not all of us are aspiring to build career.

Very true, also not all men and women are equally hard-working or dedicated or focused on achieving a set goal.

[size=78%]It does not make her choice stupid.  It is just her way to be happy.[/size]

I agree. We can't judge others based on our own ambitions and values. A surgeon may be considered extremely successful by some, yet a few will say that he or she wasted their youth sitting at a desk and studying instead of climbing mountains, hiking over glaciers or trekking over mountains...

[pitbull]

Very true, also not all men and women are equally hard-working or dedicated or focused on achieving a set goal.




I agree. We can't judge others based on our own ambitions and values. A surgeon may be considered extremely successful by some, yet a few will say that he or she wasted their youth sitting at desks and studying instead of climbing mountains, hiking over glaciers or trekking over mountains...

I seriously doubt that the fact that she squandered her chance of having children by sticking to that marriage for so long gives L a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. The being happy part gives me serious doubts as well since she wanted out after all. 


The lesson to young girls marrying old dudes is as follows: shagging you for several years is all upside for the old dude and will be after the marriage is over. Make sure you get something that will enhance your future out of this deal. It's ultimately up to you to make this happen, don't expect the old dude to look out for your longterm interests.

[missAmeno]

That could be pride if she was asking for much but got so little that it seemed demining to her to take that. However, she did not ask for anything, yet she was given her share at divorce as the law mandates and she did not take it.

Sometimes it is demeaning in our own eyes to take anything from someone regardless if it its asked for or not, entitled to or not, if break up was painful or amicable, etc.
I am entitled to something ... oh god 10 years already ... time goes so fast
All what it would take is to fill one form, my life financially wise would become easier. Few times in those 10 years I did thought about it and each time decided hell with it, I will manage without it.

[missAmeno]

The lesson to young girls marrying old dudes is as follows: shagging you for several years is all upside for the old dude and will be after the marriage is over. Make sure you get something that will enhance your future out of this deal. It's ultimately up to you to make this happen, don't expect the old dude to look out for your longterm interests.

Somehow it all sounds like shagging suppose to enhance future. One is not connected with another in my understandings. 

[Larry1]

Turbo,
... All I know is that VWRW has got to be one Hell of a woman as it took you 20 years to find her.

After considering the matter for some time I have developed a theory of the process through which Turboguy found and married vwrw.  It is my belief that after searching for some years and not finding the FSUW he hoped to find, he summoned the dark Lord Satan and, in the manner of Faust, offered to sell his soul in exchange for the heart of a spectacular, rare, and lovely FSUW wife.

I will admit that I cannot prove this theory.

[pokerintherear]

The lesson to young girls marrying old dudes is as follows: shagging you for several years is all upside for the old dude and will be after the marriage is over. Make sure you get something that will enhance your future out of this deal. It's ultimately up to you to make this happen, don't expect the old dude to look out for your longterm interests.

What a cynical view......... But........Why are the young woman accepting marriage proposals from the older dudes?? They can decline to accept the marriage proposal.

[Misha]

I seriously doubt that the fact that she squandered her chance of having children

Increasingly, many Russian women are waiting longer to have children, including when they are in their thirties. Thus, it is entirely possible for a woman to decide to wait to have a child and yet not believe she is "squandering" any chances.

Let's substitute hot young stud for old dude:

The lesson to young girls marrying a hot young stud old dudes is as follows: shagging you for several years is all upside for the hot young stud old dude and will be after the marriage is over. Make sure you get something that will enhance your future out of this deal. It's ultimately up to you to make this happen, don't expect the hot young stud old dude to look out for your longterm interests.

Has anything really changed? Boils down to this: you are responsible for your life, your opportunities and ultimately your happiness.

[pitbull]

Increasingly, many Russian women are waiting longer to have children, including when they are in their thirties. Thus, it is entirely possible for a woman to decide to wait to have a child and yet not believe she is "squandering" any chances.

Yes, it is entirely possible for a woman to consciously decide to wait to have children until late thirties, particularly when building a career. It is entirely possible for her to become an astronaut too... or decide to buy 10 kittens instead...  do you want to talk about every possible thing a theoretical woman can decide to do?
We are talking about a particular case where a multitude of chances were squandered.


I don't think young hot studs choose to shag a fat unattractive woman a couple generations older than him out of "pure big  love" if ya know what I mean 
Call me cynical, I call myself a realist. Hypocrisy is definitely not my thing either.   

[Misha]

Yes, it is entirely possible for a woman to consciously decide to wait to have children until late thirties, particularly when building a career. It is entirely possible for her to become an astronaut too... or decide to buy 10 kittens instead...  do you want to talk about every possible thing a theoretical woman can decide to do?

Do you, or do you not agree, that some RW will decide to wait until their thirties or early thirties to have a child? Yes or no. We can discuss the likelihood that a woman will buy 10 kittens in another thread if you wish.


Yes, I agree that in the past, a woman waiting until thirty to have a child would have been extremely rare, but there are exceptions to any rule and the times are a changing. Some RW do not even want to have children. Again, rare, but entirely feasible. As neither you nor I can read any stranger's mind, we have to discuss what we know, and in this case I am presenting scenarios whereby a woman could quite easily celebrate her 30th birthday, and yet not believe she squandered her chances to have a child.

We are talking about a particular case where a multitude of chances were squandered.

You may be discussing a particular case, I am presenting scenarios where what you are presenting as definite absolute truth would not be necessarily true. Again, I will affirm my belief that one cannot impose one's values and desires onto any other individual.

I don't think young hot studs choose to shag a fat unattractive woman a couple generations older than him out of "pure big  love" if ya know what I mean 
Call me cynical, I call myself a realist. Hypocrisy is definitely not my thing either.

Questions of "love" or even issues of "attraction" were not included in your statement and I demonstrated that replacing old dude with hot young stud would have produced exactly the same "truth."

[vwrw]

A surgeon may be considered extremely successful by some, yet a few will say that he or she wasted their youth sitting at a desk and studying instead of climbing mountains, hiking over glaciers or trekking over mountains...

A good point Misha.

[vwrw]

After considering the matter for some time I have developed a theory of the process through which Turboguy found and married vwrw.  It is my belief that after searching for some years and not finding the FSUW he hoped to find, he summoned the dark Lord Satan and, in the manner of Faust, offered to sell his soul in exchange for the heart of a spectacular, rare, and lovely FSUW wife.

I will admit that I cannot prove this theory.

Larry, I am god's gift, not a sale from satan. 

[fathertime]

This conversation has taken an interesting turn...It appears to me that Pitbull feels that a 'victim' (for lack of a better word) was created by KenC...I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind why, if he/she would like to explain the rationale. 


 In my opinion many many people use/waste their youth through various means, (alcohol..drugs/excessive socializing/isolation/bad marriages etc etc) but that doesn't make these people victims...isn't that free will. and just how the cookie crumbles?  It isn't a pleasant thing to lose youth, but life isn't always pleasant...alas the calendar isn't stopping for anybody. 


Fathertime! 

[Misha]

In my opinion many many people use/waste their youth through various means, (alcohol..drugs/excessive socializing/isolation/bad marriages etc etc) but that doesn't make these people victims...isn't that free will. and just how the cookie crumbles?  It isn't a pleasant thing to lose youth, but life isn't always pleasant...alas the calendar isn't stopping for anybody. 


Fathertime!

I agree and would add that the future has yet to be squandered and that the old can still derive pleasure from the present so long as they live.

[Turboguy]

I don't think young hot studs choose to shag a fat unattractive woman a couple generations older than him out of "pure big  love" if ya know what I mean 

My thoughts tend to run the opposite of yours.   I don't think a lot of young women hop in bed with an older man for the fun of it.  It might be money, power, the attraction of a more mature man, the fact an older man will dote over a young gal, but not for fun.

These days the Cougar thing is very popular.  Older women even fat and not very attractive women find it easy to find a very young stud.  Young guys have such a strong sex drive any woman who is available is acceptable, even an older, overweight and not very attractive one.  For many young guys a few days alone makes a knothole in a tree look attractive.