Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[Voyager36]

Have you read the news lately? We're now dealing with guns. Politics doesn't matter anymore. Only the West thinks sanctions will solve this problem. Yanukovych wrote a letter to Russia for help and Russia said "yes". Russia needs Yanukovych to make everything they do legal since they are obtaining permission from Ukraine's legal president. Once they take over all Ukraine, they will reinstate Yanukovych. How long he lasts depends on Russia, not Ukrainian citizens.

Well then we disagree. Time will tell if he gets put back in power, but IMO politically he's damaged goods - he's done.

Russia pays attention to politics in their surrounding countries. They got their preferred man to be president in Ukraine and you don't think Russia played a role in creating puppet leaders?

I'm sure he had some support from Russian interests, just like the Maidan protesters had support from the West.
Doesn't change the fact that he won the election that even Western observers declared to be "free & fair"
He was no puppet installed by Russia- he is the guy that the Ukrainian people elected.

[justme100]

As I mentioned in another thread, the British are calling him a fibber, for not using stronger language like fcuking liar, and Angela Merkel is questioning his sense of reality. What does that tell you?

Yes, I just saw the other thread. Well, it doesn't tell me anything, and what it supposed to tell?
As to fucking liar - I would rename it to "little cunning fox", although it doesn't change the essence of course as yes, everyhting he told was a lie) One interesting fact - his reputation among Russians grew even higher after this.

[Muzh]

He was no puppet installed by Russia- he is the guy that the Ukrainian people elected.

Ahem. Thirty four percent of the Ukrainian people that were ALLOWED to vote. I know of THREE who were not allowed to vote because the previous owners of the house where they live, who happens to be dead BUT rabid Party of Robbers supporters, did vote. And you CANNOT have more than one owner/family for that address.

[Muzh]

Yes, I just saw the other thread. Well, it doesn't tell me anything, and what it supposed to tell?
As to fucking liar - I would rename it to "little cunning fox", although it doesn't change the essence of course as yes, everyhting he told was a lie) One interesting fact - his reputation among Russians grew even higher after this.

That says a lot about the Russian people, don't it?

[Hammer2722]

That says a lot about the Russian people, don't it?

Can you say SHEEP?

[The Natural]

 
LMAO
 
Is that why Ms. Merkel is questioning Putin's sense of reality? Because the Western propaganda has gotten to him?
 
Roy, you are funny.

I can't really say anything about Merkel's thoughtprocess, but I have a strong feeling Putin don't care too much about western propaganda. It's for public consumption anyway.
 
Yeah, I'm funny, so you keep telling me. But a little more effort at an analysis to refute my points would be even funnier. If you disagree with what I wrote, tell me why you then think Obama hold all the aces, will you?
 

Don't forget about MC'Donalds, please. I won't survive if they close it here, I like to pamper myself with nice latte from time to time

Come on girl, you have to make some sacrifices 
 
As it's probably just a damn Putin lie anyways, I will bury this link at the bottom here:
 
Why Is The Mainstream Media Ignoring The Rabid Anti-Semitism In The New Ukraine Government?
 
http://thetruthwins.com/archives/why-is-the-mainstream-media-ignoring-the-rabid-anti-semitism-in-the-new-ukraine-government

[Muzh]

Yeah, I'm funny, so you keep telling me. But a little more effort at an analysis to refute my points would be even funnier. If you disagree with what I wrote, tell me why you then think Obama hold all the aces, will you?
 

Okay Roy. Here, watch the video and then I'll ask you some questions.
 

 
Did you notice the Nazis Ukrainian Army provoking the local population? They were singing Ukrainian songs. How dare they? I believe that if you sing Norwegian songs in Norway, the locals would not hesitate putting a bullet through your head, wouldn't they?
 
Also, did you notice how the locals, those nice young men wearing green suits with no insignias, scurried scarely into the fields and hid with their bazookas and machine guns from these bad Nazi Ukrainian Army brutes?
 
Finally, did you notice what propaganda does?

[Gylden]

At home, this intervention looks to be one of the most unpopular decisions Putin has ever made. The Kremlin’s own pollster released a survey on Monday that showed 73% of Russians reject it. In phrasing its question posed in early February to 1,600 respondents across the country, the state-funded sociologists at WCIOM were clearly trying to get as much support for the intervention as possible: “Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?” they asked. Only 15% said yes — hardly a national consensus.

Read more: How Putin's Ukraine Invasion Is a Disaster for Russia | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2014/03/03/putin-ukraine-crimea-russia/#ixzz2v1c4SFe3

[dogspot]

Can you say SHEEP?

My wife (Russian) calls them zombies. Same idea though.

[justme100]

That says a lot about the Russian people, don't it?

Yes, it is. People are able to appreatiate a real man with guts.

[The Natural]

Okay Roy. Here, watch the video and then I'll ask you some questions.
 

 
Did you notice the Nazis Ukrainian Army provoking the local population? They were singing Ukrainian songs. How dare they? I believe that if you sing Norwegian songs in Norway, the locals would not hesitate putting a bullet through your head, wouldn't they?
 
Also, did you notice how the locals, those nice young men wearing green suits with no insignias, scurried scarely into the fields and hid with their bazookas and machine guns from these bad Nazi Ukrainian Army brutes?
 
Finally, did you notice what propaganda does?

First, I don't need to see the video here. They've been showing it on TV endless times.
 
The way I see this is: they (Ukrainian military) wanted to provoke and brought along cameras and journalists to make a propaganda piece on how peaceful they are and how beautiful .... eh, one moment....... I'm back, had to wipe tears off just thinking about the peaceful and beautiful song and the wonderful slogans "America is with us".... Okay, Im ok now.
 
Listen, where did I ever say that the Ukrainian military personell are nazis? It's a strawman argument. I said that part of the protesters in Kiev had neo-nazis among them and that part of the new government have these folks in their ranks. There's links, not that I think that means anything to the russophobes.
 
 

[justme100]

Peaceful protestants on Maydan( Yes, Yanukovich should kneel  and beg to forgive him these poor Berkuts whom he put unarmed face to face with these amphetamine stuffed beasts(

[Muzh]

Yes, it is. People are able to appreatiate a real man with guts.

Heh, famous last words.
 
You know who had guts? Those guys in the video I just posted where they are being shot at. Those people are putting their lives in danger to protect their country from foreign incursion by a man who's abilities are being questioned by world leaders.
 
You seem to be getting a real high from the level of testosterone being spewed by this leader. Says a lot about your mental disposition rather than your intellect. Foremost, my sincerest apology if you feel insulted. However, based on your level of discussion you come out as a lightweight similar to a highschool girl having a crush on the varsity captain so anything else you say from now on will be taken accordingly. My sincerest hope however, is that you do not suffer any loss during these trying times.

[ghost of moon goddess]

The Natural, in your profile picture I see a man waving the flag of Russia. Is it you?

[Voyager36]

Ahem. Thirty four percent of the Ukrainian people that were ALLOWED to vote. I know of THREE who were not allowed to vote because the previous owners of the house where they live, who happens to be dead BUT rabid Party of Robbers supporters, did vote. And you CANNOT have more than one owner/family for that address.

And I'd heard of irregularities in Western Ukraine where the Party of Regions voters were intimidated or denied the vote, but every election has a few hiccups, even in the West. (Remember "hanging chads"?)
Nonetheless, the election was declared free & fair by Western observers, and reported in Western media. Do you think that Putin's propaganda controls the BBC, Guardian, Washington Post  etc? 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/08/AR2010020803583.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8505792.stm
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/09/tymoshenko-challenge-ukraine-election-result

[The Natural]

The Natural, in your profile picture I see a man waving the flag of Russia. Is it you?

Yes, it's me. A little show of support to ethnic Russians in Crimea and elsewhere 

[justme100]

Heh, famous last words.
 
You know who had guts? Those guys in the video I just posted where they are being shot at. Those people are putting their lives in danger to protect their country from foreign incursion by a man who's abilities are being questioned by world leaders.

Do you chance to know why all this video was made?   As I said yesterday, brother of my best friend serves in Belbek. You can even see him on this video.
Maybe if you apply a little brain action you will understand that these people just can't simply give up and put themselves under war tribunal for this. So a little of "movie" as a proof was needed to show they really protest intervention

[Muzh]

"В Донецке проходит двухтысячный антивоенный митинг за целостность Украины"

Более 2000 человек проводят антивоенный митинг возле Свято-Преображенского собора в центре Донецка, - сообщает корреспондент "ОстроВа". Люди продолжают подходить.

В акции принимают участие преимущественно молодые люди, студенты. "Это те люди, которые понимают, что нечего не печке сидеть", - сказал один из участников акции.

Люди держат в руках плакаты с надписями: "Донбасс – это Украина", "Нет войне!", "Россия – не враг" и "Сепаратизму – нет!". Аналогичные лозунги они скандируют. Партийных лозунгов и знамен не наблюдается. Атмосфера митинга подчеркнуто аполитична и весьма позитивна. Люди исполняют гимн Украины, скандируют "Слава Украине! Героям Слава!" и знаменитую "Червону руту".

Вдоль улицы Артема участники акции развернули большой флаг Украины - более 5 метров. Машины, проезжая мимо, приветственно сигналят государственному флагу.

Как сообщалось ранее, в нескольких сотнях метров, через улицу Артема, возле здания Донецкого областного совета проходит пророссийский митинг.


 

[justme100]

Mr.Obama, American taxpayers want to know how comes that 5 milliards that were supposed to support democracy and revolution in Ukraine went for even more fortification of Russian patriots?

[Ade]

Ade, you are normally my comrade-in-arms but this time I'll have to dissent a bit.
 
First, I totally agree with the wrmongering silly boys. It is way over the top. Also agree that escalating this conflict into a war will produce no winners.
 
 
But that's about it.
 
You want to see propaganda? This morning my wife was talking to her sister in Kharkiv and she started laughing. I asked her and she said that on Russian news Putin claims the troops in Crimea are basically Ukrainian self-defense troops protecting themselves from hordes of Nazis. Then I get this link in my email.

Putin says he will protect Russians in Ukraine
 
You seem to be very concern about the "Nazi" situation in Ukraine. I believe the Nazis in Ukraine are as relevant as the Nazis in Russia as well as the Nazis in the rest of Europe. So, you tell me what you think about them Nazis?
 
You are absolutely correct that in the middle there are ethnic Russians and Ukrainians that all they want is peace.
 

 
What happened in Maidan was that the dog turned around and bit its master for being hit one time too many. And right now Putin wants to come in and become the new master. However, that will NOT stop the beatings.
 
It is easy to dispell reality by claiming propaganda. As a thinking and rational man, I put you above that.

I never mentioned Nazis Muzh. But there certainly seems to be some weight to the claims that far right organizations have influence in the new government. At least it's enough to put ethnic Russians on edge. Given the same situation, if I were an ethnic Russian in Crimea I think I'd be a little nervous and be happy to welcome RU military in the hope they'd help pave the way to secession.

As for Maidan - in amongst the paid protestors, I'm sure there were heroic patriots that were there for the benefit of every Ukrainian no matter their ethnicity. Still, why do I have the impression that it was all just about a bunch of corrupt politicians on both sides vying for control of a country's purse strings?

[Muzh]

I never mentioned Nazis Muzh. But there certainly seems to be some weight to the claims that far right organizations have influence in the new government. At least it's enough to put ethnic Russians on edge. Given the same situation, if I were an ethnic Russian in Crimea I think I'd be a little nervous and be happy to welcome RU military in the hope they'd help pave the way to secession.

Ade, the reason I bring the Nazi issue is because this is the main reason, as you put it, that got Russians on the edge and are welcoming invading forces into a sovereign nation. Not to mention that the invading forces have been "dying" to get in there for some time now. How releveant are them Nazis? Why don't we ask Israel? Seriously.
 

As for Maidan - in amongst the paid protestors, I'm sure there were heroic patriots that were there for the benefit of every Ukrainian no matter their ethnicity. Still, why do I have the impression that it was all just about a bunch of corrupt politicians on both sides vying for control of a country's purse strings?

You have to start somewhere. But look at what this Russian incursion just did. The provisional government appointed the same old same old to govern the eastern part with the hopes of "calming" the secesionists. Here's a country, no, a people trying to get ahead and what do they get? Intervention and back to the vassal state. Where they belong. No?
 

[Gylden]

I guess it really boils down to the fact that many Russians are comfortable with the level of corruption/oppresion that developed in the Soviet Union. Where as most Ukrainians I have talked to want something more like the freedoms available in the west.

[jone]

General Inquiry:

I was just wondering, which elements of the current government are right wing?  I looked through the profiles of the current make-up of the Rada and could not find a single member of a right wing organization. 

Please, please, someone point them out to me.  (My understanding is that the Rada is made up of the same people as before.  None of the membership has changed.  The Party of Regions still controls 187 votes.)

Much of what is being said here is conjecture, and believing the spin, one way or the other. 

While I deplore the idea of having Tymoshenko back in charge (and I have always deplored it) I would like to know, under the best circumstances, a course of action for the Ukrainian Government.  They are trying, pretty damn hard to come up with a unity government. 

The monkey in the works is the Russian boot.

Can someone point me to a legislator that was not part of the former government that represents the right wing?  Otherwise, you must stop using the inference that the new government (which is the old government minus the Yanukovych thugs)  is a right wing institution.

Even Putin, in his press conference, stated that he supported the Rada.  He should because the majority is made up of a former political party that is friendly to him.

[dogspot]

General Inquiry:

I was just wondering, which elements of the current government are right wing?  I looked through the profiles of the current make-up of the Rada and could not find a single member of a right wing organization. 

Please, please, someone point them out to me.  (My understanding is that the Rada is made up of the same people as before.  None of the membership has changed.  The Party of Regions still controls 187 votes.)

Olen Tyahnybok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok

Are you familiar with the Svoboda party?

Here is an interesting article about some of the players in Ukraine's new government.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/03/ukraine-government_n_4889063.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

[The Natural]

General Inquiry:

I was just wondering, which elements of the current government are right wing?  I looked through the profiles of the current make-up of the Rada and could not find a single member of a right wing organization. 

Please, please, someone point them out to me. 

Why Is The Mainstream Media Ignoring The Rabid Anti-Semitism In The New Ukraine Government?

By Michael Snyder, on March 3rd, 2014
 
In World War II, the United States fought against rabidly anti-Semitic fascists.  In 2014, the United States helps them overthrow democratically-elected governments.  And the sick thing is that the mainstream media is acting an an accomplice because it is purposely ignoring or greatly playing down the rabid anti-Semitism in Ukraine.  The anti-Semitism of many of the “reformers” that have seized power in Kiev does not fit with the narrative that the U.S. government is trying to push, so the mainstream media conveniently turns a blind eye to the fact that the United States is essentially helping neo-Nazis take power.  In fact, leaders of the Svoboda Party have been appointed to numerous important positions throughout the new government.  As you will read about below, the head of the Svoboda Party has denounced the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry”, another top Svoboda official regularly quotes Joseph Goebbels, and the Party itself was known as “the Social-National Party” (in reference to National Socialists) until 2004.  There is a long history of anti-Semitism in Ukraine, but our politicians in Washington D.C. don’t seem to care about that.  All they seem to care about is making sure that there is not a pro-Russian government in Ukraine no matter what the cost.
 
There is a reason why Russian President Vladimir Putin cited “ultranationalists” as one of the reasons why Russian troops had to intervene in Ukraine.  What we are seeing in Ukraine right now is eerily reminiscent of what we saw in Nazi Germany before World War II.  The following comes from a recent Gawker article…
 
    Earlier this week, a synagogue in the country’s southeast was firebombed. There have been multiple reported beatings of Jews and acts of vandalism at Kiev synagogues. A leading rabbi in Kiev has called for Jews to leave the city and the country, if possible—though he later said he was stressing that it’s dangerous for everyone out there—and the Israeli embassy has reportedly advised members of the Jewish community to stay off the streets.
 
Some people are dismissing these as “isolated incidents”.  Well, then how do you explain the white power flags and other neo-Nazi symbols that have been going up all around Kiev?  In the video posted below, you can see a white power flag that has been erected in a city government building in Kiev…
 
The truth is that it is not a good time to be a Jewish person living in Ukraine.  Just like in so many other nations around the planet, anti-Semitism is on the rise.  The following is from an article about the rising anti-Semitism in Ukraine that comes from a news source in Israel…
 
    “We are aware of a terrible situation unfolding there,” Frenkel noted. She receives updates on the crisis from a friend of her son’s; the contact has described attacks and accusations being leveled at Jews on a regular basis. Among other things, Frankel has been notified that a grenade has been lobbed into a synagogue, a hareidi man assaulted on his way home from synagogue on Shabbat, and anti-Semitic graffiti has cropped up in several places.
 
Earlier I mentioned the Svoboda Party.  It is one of the primary political parties that make up the new governing coalition in Ukraine.  Unfortunately, this party has historical roots in Nazism and nobody disputes this.
 
    The party traces its roots to a Nazi-allied partisan army during World War II  and was known as the Social-National Party—in reference to National Socialism—until 2004.
 
And the current leader of the Svoboda Party, Oleh Tyahnybok, is quite a piece of work.  The following is what Stephen Lendman had to say about him…
    “Washington openly backs fascist Svoboda party leader Oleh Tyahnybok…In 2004, Tyahnybok was expelled from former President Viktor Yushchenko’s parliamentary faction. He was condemned for urging Ukrainians to fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia.”
   
In 2005, he denounced “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry.” He outrageously claimed they plan “genocide” against Ukrainians.”…
    Tyahnybok extremism didn’t deter Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland. On February 6, she met openly with him and other anti-government leaders.
   
 In early January, 15,000 ultranationalists held a torchlight march through Kiev. They did so to honor Nazi-era collaborator/mass murderer Stepan Bandera. Some wore uniforms a Wehrmacht Ukrainian division used in WW II. Others chanted “Ukraine above all” and “Bandera, come and bring order.”
Isn’t that lovely?
 
And another top Svoboda Party official loves to quote Joseph Goebbels and other top Nazis from the World War II era…
   
Another top Svoboda member, Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, a deputy in parliament, often quotes Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels, as well as other Third Reich luminaries like Ernst Rohm and Gregor Strasser.
 
You would think that the U.S. government would want nothing to do with such people.
But instead, the U.S. government has actively aided their rise to power, and now members of the Svoboda Party have been appointed to very important positions throughout the new government in Ukraine…
   
 As the fires die down from the turmoil in Kiev, a political party that has been accused of promoting anti-Semitism and xenophobia is set to reap the benefits of the new government arrangement.
   
 The Svoboda Party will take control of not one, but three ministries in the interim government.
    These posts include the deputy prime minister and the heads of the agriculture and environmental ministries. In addition to these positions, a Svoboda lawmaker was appointed the new prosecutor general in the interim government.
Are you disgusted yet?
You should be.
 
If I was a Jewish person living in Ukraine, I would be trying to get out as fast as I could.
Fortunately, there are some people that are seeking to help them.  In fact, they will soon receive a million dollars from one organization to help with security…
   
Ukrainian Jews are slated to receive $1 million to increase security against possible upticks in anti-Semitic behavior in the wake of the country’s massive political upheaval.
   
The money is coming from the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, the Jewish Week reported, and is going toward protection for places where Jews gather, as well as for the elderly and poverty-stricken.
   
 “From the many conversations I’ve conducted this week with Jewish leaders in the Ukraine, we understood that the situation on the ground is critical,” organization founder and president Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein said. “Rabbis and communal leaders feel under threat.”
Hopefully as word gets out about the extreme anti-Semitism of some of these Ukrainian politicians, our politicians in Washington D.C. will start to change their tune.
 
But we have seen this kind of thing before.  The Obama administration helped al-Qaeda take power in Libya, it is helping al-Qaeda try to overthrow the Syrian government, and now it is helping neo-Nazis rise to power in Ukraine.
It is almost as if a case of collective insanity has gripped the people running things in Washington.
I truly fear for what is ahead.
 
About the author: Michael T. Snyder is a former Washington D.C. attorney who now publishes The Truth.
 
http://thetruthwins.com/archives/why-is-the-mainstream-media-ignoring-the-rabid-anti-semitism-in-the-new-ukraine-government