Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[Faux Pas]

Getting paid to protest? Even if it did happen it was more likely paid to cover costs.

It pales into insignificence compared paying thugs to run amok on the street robbing,stealing,vandalising ,beating people up and the list goes on. Perhaps a mention of the payments to Berkut responsible for the murders of innocent people.

Those that see to rationalise the state murdering its own citizens are a disgrace to  humanity-- show some respect for those killed and injured--in the name of deposing a corrupt government.

So please--shut the  f..k up..!!

Maybe you should try to remove your head from your ass and check the reality? There is a reasoned, viable opposing POV. I agree with most of your post but, when you have to say STFU, you lose the debate.

[BillyB]

Russia ordered 150,000 troops to test their combat readiness Wednesday in a show of force that prompted a blunt warning from the United States that any military intervention in Ukraine would be a "grave mistake."

At a minimum, Putin is purposely working up people's nerves by engaging in surprise military exercises in a sensitive time like this. Or the exercise could be used as a disguise for a mobilization of troops for war.


Here's the latest entry into Putin's diary. There's truth in it.


http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2022992188_davidbrooksfakeputindiary26xml.html?prmid=obinsource

[Misha]

Without speculating on where the money came from, $100 million is a drop in the bucket compared to, say, the billions in aid Ukraine is requesting for instance, or the amount embezzled by the fine leaders of this country over the years, not to mention that it's a paltry price to pay to help fund controlling an entire country.

Uh-huh. And, under which budget line item do they put the hundreds of millions they presumably have stashed in cash in the various vaults of the untold embassies so people can simply walk in and out with suitcases full of cash. I can imagine whichever Senate review committee asking: "So why do we need to spend $100 million for 'photocopying' at the Ukraine embassy?"

[JayH]

Here's the latest entry into Putin's diary. There's truth in it.

Funny link-- yep-the truth is in there!!

[lordtiberius]

Maybe you should try to remove your head from your ass and check the reality? There is a reasoned, viable opposing POV. I agree with most of your post but, when you have to say STFU, you lose the debate.

so much for practicing what you preach

Uh-huh. And, under which budget line item do they put the hundreds of millions they presumably have stashed in cash in the various vaults of the untold embassies so people can simply walk in and out with suitcases full of cash. I can imagine whichever Senate review committee asking: "So why do we need to spend $100 million for 'photocopying' at the Ukraine embassy?"

I HATE agreeing with Ade especially in light of the fact that I advocate for a more muscular US interventionist policy but we only have 1 out of 100 senators who agree with your common sense approach to this - Sen Ran Paul of Kentucky.  The other 99 idiots are Feinstein-ish and will defer to the bureaucracy who will say on the record - LIES - but it is an open secret that the intel budget is BLACK and not up for discussion.

Normally I don't volunteer this knowledge because normally we would not have a communist subversive in elected power, but we do  - TWICE.  I therefore warn you as a friend, as someone who agrees with you on this issue, and as someone who loves and admires Canada - pursue a separate ofriegn policy and do not depend or TRUST the United States.

[lordtiberius]

We ain't going to do Shii  . . . nothing.

Obama is President.  Unless the Tea Party moves its HQ to Kiev, Putin has nothing to worry about.

[Slumba]

Uh-huh. And, under which budget line item do they put the hundreds of millions they presumably have stashed in cash in the various vaults of the untold embassies so people can simply walk in and out with suitcases full of cash. I can imagine whichever Senate review committee asking: "So why do we need to spend $100 million for 'photocopying' at the Ukraine embassy?"

The Federal Reserve *illegally* printed up $12 Billion (with a B) in FRNs and shipped them to Iraq; only the US Congress has the authority to authorize the printing of currency.  The US Mint then requests the Federal Reserve to print it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/more-fed-sending-money-iraq

not a fan of infowars, but they have the links to CSPAN recordings on youtube and a summary, here:

http://www.infowars.com/paul-bernanke-waxman-and-12-billion-in-cash-squandered/

Is Bernanke or anyone from the Federal Reserve that illegally printed (essentially, they counterfeited $12 Billion) in jail?

And you think a measly $100 million couldn't be moved around?

[Ade]

Getting paid to protest? Even if it did happen it was more likely paid to cover costs.

It pales into insignificence compared paying thugs to run amok on the street robbing,stealing,vandalising ,beating people up and the list goes on. Perhaps a mention of the payments to Berkut responsible for the murders of innocent people.

Those that see to rationalise the state murdering its own citizens are a disgrace to  humanity-- show some respect for those killed and injured--in the name of deposing a corrupt government.

So please--shut the  f..k up..!!

This faux offense of yours is just so melodramatic and getting more silly by the minute.

People were paid from both sides. Brave people died. Stupid people died. People were unjustly murdered on both sides. Patriots protested as did the mercinary. Propaganda is running rife. All of these things happened and are still happening no doubt and none are mutually exclusive.

No one is rationalizing murder as far as I can tell.

[Ade]

Uh-huh. And, under which budget line item do they put the hundreds of millions they presumably have stashed in cash in the various vaults of the untold embassies so people can simply walk in and out with suitcases full of cash. I can imagine whichever Senate review committee asking: "So why do we need to spend $100 million for 'photocopying' at the Ukraine embassy?"

You keep on talking about the US. I've never inferred it was the US that funded this.

[JayH]

This faux offense of yours is just so melodramatic and getting more silly by the minute.

People were paid from both sides. Brave people died. Stupid people died. People were unjustly murdered on both sides. Patriots protested as did the mercinary. Propaganda is running rife. All of these things happened and are still happening no doubt and none are mutually exclusive.

No one is rationalizing murder as far as I can tell.

Attempting to trivialise the protest as a whole by inferring( saying outright) that it was  a farce is ignoring the reality of what was achieved-- and in particular the sacrifice of over 100 lives  in seeking to remove a very corrupt government.
Now we have either misguided fools or peddlers of propaganda seeking to discredit what took place.
It is failing to show any respect for those killed .

[JayH]

UPDATE 3-Armed men seize government HQ in Ukraine's Crimea, raise Russian flag
Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:01am EST

* Armed men seize regional government, parliament buildings

* Police outside, Russian flag flying

* Door barricaded with chairs, tables

* Russia says it will defend compatriots' right

By Alessandra Prentice

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Armed men seized the regional government headquarters and parliament on Ukraine's Crimea peninsula on Thursday and raised the Russian flag in a challenge to the country's new rulers.

It was not immediately known who was occupying the buildings in the regional capital Simferopol and they issued no demands, but witnesses said they spoke Russian and appeared to be ethnic Russian separatists.

Interfax news agency quoted a witness as saying there were about 60 people inside and they had many weapons. It said no one had been hurt when the buildings were seized in the early hours by Russian speakers in uniforms without designating marks.

"We were building barricades in the night to protect parliament. Then this young Russian guy came up with a pistol ... we all lay down, some more ran up, there was some shooting and around 50 went in through the window," Leonid Khazanov, an ethnic Russian, told Reuters.

"They're still there ... Then the police came, they seemed scared. I asked them (the armed men) what they wanted and they said 'To make our own decisions, not to have Kiev telling us what to do'," said Khazanov.

Crimea, the only Ukrainian region with an ethnic Russian majority, is the last big bastion of opposition to the new political leadership in Kiev following the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovich on Saturday.

Part of Russia's Black Sea fleet is based in Crimea, in the port of Sevastopol

Ukraine's new leaders have been voicing alarm over signs of separatism there. The seizure of the building was confirmed by acting interior minister Arsen Avakov, who said the attackers had automatic weapons and machine guns.

"Provocateurs are on the march. It is the time for cool heads," he said on Facebook.

About 100 police were gathered in front of the parliament building. The streets around the parliament were mostly empty apart from people going to work.

The regional prime minister said he had spoken to the people inside the building by telephone but they had not made any demands or said why they were inside. They had promised to call him back but had not done so, he said.

RUSSIAN WARNINGS

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ignored calls by some ethnic Russians in Crimea to reclaim the territory handed to then Soviet Ukraine by Soviet Communist leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1954.

The United States says any Russian military action would be a grave mistake.

But Russia's foreign ministry said in a statement that Moscow would defend the rights of its compatriots and react without compromise to any violation of those rights.

It expressed concern about "large-scale human rights violations", attacks and vandalism in the former Soviet republic.

Ethnic Tatars who support Ukraine's new leaders and pro-Russia separatists had confronted each other outside the regional parliament on Wednesday.

Yanukovich was toppled after three months of unrest led by protesters in Kiev. He is now on the run being sought by the new authorities for murder in connection with the deaths of around 100 people during the conflict.

Crimea is the only region of Ukraine where ethnic Russians dominate in numbers, although many ethnic Ukrainians in other eastern areas speak Russian as their first language.

The Tatars, a Turkic ethnic group, were victimised by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin in World War Two and deported en masse to Soviet Central Asia in 1944 on suspicion of collaborating with Nazi Germany.

Tens of thousands of them returned to their homeland after Ukraine gained independence with the collapse of the Soviet Union at the end of 1991.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/ukraine-crisis-crimea-idUSL6N0LW0AY20140227

[Ade]

Attempting to trivialise the protest as a whole by inferring( saying outright) that it was  a farce is ignoring the reality of what was achieved-- and in particular the sacrifice of over 100 lives  in seeking to remove a very corrupt government.
Now we have either misguided fools or peddlers of propaganda seeking to discredit what took place.
It is failing to show any respect for those killed .

Oh grow up and stop with the straw men and melodrama.

[Chelseaboy]

Armed pro-Russian terrorists have seized Ukrainian government buildings in Simferopol today,and raised the Russian flag .

Guess these terrorists were paid by Russia.

Be interesting to see how the pro-Russians on here defend this action

[The Natural]

This is a very polarized debate, no wonder it's physically polarized in Ukraine.
People were paid, on BOTH SIDES. Yes, it's a tragedy with all the lost lives.. on BOTH SIDES. Not a man I agree a lot with, but I do with this from Ade:
 
"People were paid from both sides. Brave people died. Stupid people died. People were unjustly murdered on both sides. Patriots protested as did the mercinary. Propaganda is running rife. All of these things happened and are still happening no doubt and none are mutually exclusive."
 
Everybody here symphatize with the victims and the people as a whole in this situation. But what about having some symphaty and listen to what people in the thick of it say, like justme in Sevastopol? We should be glad she spend time here giving her perspective as a person living in Krim which is now the hotbed of this conflict. Some here has showed concern for her well-being and that's thoughtful. Others couldn't care less because they don't agree with her politically. A little more respect would be in order, I think.

[JayH]

This is a very polarized debate, no wonder it's physically polarized in Ukraine.
People were paid, on BOTH SIDES. Yes, it's a tragedy with all the lost lives.. on BOTH SIDES. Not a man I agree a lot with, but I do with this from Ade:
 
"People were paid from both sides. Brave people died. Stupid people died. People were unjustly murdered on both sides. Patriots protested as did the mercinary. Propaganda is running rife. All of these things happened and are still happening no doubt and none are mutually exclusive."
 
Everybody here symphatize with the victims and the people as a whole in this situation. But what about having some symphaty and listen to what people in the thick of it say, like justme in Sevastopol? We should be glad she spend time here giving her perspective as a person living in Krim which is now the hotbed of this conflict. Some here has showed concern for her well-being and that's thoughtful. Others couldn't care less because they don't agree with her politically. A little more respect would be in order, I think.

I have no particular interest in getting into a debate--but when statements get made that are off beam it is hard to ignore. There is a VAST difference from some people being paid some travel and lunch money ( in fact a very small % of those protesting)   and paying thugs and murderers.
The reality is that the current Government was elected  via a vote and the process of the law- and Government and as such-is the legitimate Government of all Ukraine. They are there in fact-to ensure stability until the election on May25.
Right now-- the confusion of so many is that any of this is Russian business.It is simply not.
For quite a few here-- family and /or friends in Ukraine have a very specific problem-they have been conditioned by propaganda into a way of thinking- and now we see the vulnerable thoughts being exploited.
It is a very important time for the future of Ukrainians and it's fledgling democracy -time to think and not reacting to attempts to push their buttons.

[Ade]

I have no particular interest in getting into a debate--but when statements get made that are off beam it is hard to ignore. There is a VAST difference from some people being paid some travel and lunch money ( in fact a very small % of those protesting)   and paying thugs and murderers.
The reality is that the current Government was elected  via a vote and the process of the law- and Government and as such-is the legitimate Government of all Ukraine. They are there in fact-to ensure stability until the election on May25.
Right now-- the confusion of so many is that any of this is Russian business.It is simply not.
For quite a few here-- family and /or friends in Ukraine have a very specific problem-they have been conditioned by propaganda into a way of thinking- and now we see the vulnerable thoughts being exploited.
It is a very important time for the future of Ukrainians and it's fledgling democracy -time to think and not reacting to attempts to push their buttons.

LOL

[JayH]

http://24tv.ua/home/showSingleNews.do?sbu_yide_perehoplyuvati_rosiyski_btri_pid_simferopolem&objectId=414298

СБУ їде перехоплювати російські БТРи під Сімферополем
    10:25
Поділитись   
   
   
   
Новини/Україна
Фото: БТРи в Криму (Коментарі)
НА ТЕМУ:
АР КРИМ
Відкрито кримінальне провадження за фактом захоплення ВР Криму, — ГПУ
На підступах до Сімферополя розвертають БТРи, - ЗМІ
Генконсул Росії у Криму: Все непогано
Співробітники Служби безпеки України вирушили до Сімферопольського району, щоб перехопити російські БТРи.
Співробітники української спецслужби обдзвонили журналістів телеканалів і повідомили, що прямують сьогодні в село Укромне під Сімферополем, щоб "перехопити російські БТРи", передає УНІАН.

"Наші співробітники проведуть певні дії, щоб не допустити порушення громадського порядку", - повідомила УНІАН співробітник прес-служби Кримського управління СБУ.

За даними ЗМІ, в Укромному стоять 7 БТРів, нібито щоб посилити охорону об'єктів Чорноморського флоту Росії, який базується в Криму.

Security Service of Ukraine went to the Simferopol area to intercept Russian armored vehicles.
Ukrainian special services staff phoned journalists and TV stations reported that traveling today Ukromne village near Simferopol "to intercept Russian armored vehicles", UNIAN reports .

"Our staff will conduct certain actions to prevent public disorder" - told UNIAN press officer of the Crimean SBU.

According to media reports, the Ukromnomu are 7 BTRiv supposedly to strengthen the protection of objects of Russian Black Sea Fleet, based in Crimea.

ADDED LATER FROM ANOTHER SOURCE
Simferopol moves about 50 armored personnel carriers. The Head of Majlis Mr Chubarov.
According to him armored vehicles seen in various parts of Simferopol. R.Chubarov also declared that aggressors Council of Ministers and the Verkhovna Rada of the ARC has not yet voiced any claims. , in turn, journalist TRC "Chernomorskaya" Lily Abibulayeva publish photos BTRiv near Simferopol in his page on Facebook. Subsequently spokeswoman Crimean Prime Violetta Lisin said that armored vehicles that move in the direction of Simferopol include the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. "at the fork near the village Ukromne really are (currently) about 7 APC BSF Russia "- she wrote. fact that these armored vehicles belonging to the Black Sea Fleet confirmed by sources in the SBU. As you know, last night about 60 weapons seized from unknown quarters of the Crimean parliament and the Council of Ministers of Crimea in Simferopol. Workers brought out. Crimean Prime Minister Anatoly Mogilev said that at 9 am scheduled talks with those who took the room. He announced Thursday weekends and asked people to remain calm and not closer to the epicenter
http://ukr-online.com/


LATER AGAIN
Acting President, Parliament Speaker Oleksandr Turchynov warned Russian troops in the Crimea that if they move with arms over their territory boundaries specified in the agreement, it will be rated as a military aggression

[JayH]

LOL

Something you did not understand? Yeah-I forgot you dont get much at all-best you take the advice I offered earlier-I wont repeat to avoid  offending Faux Pas's sensibilities.

[JayH]

<iframe src="http://vk.com/video_ext.php?oid=197617253&id=167756114&hash=7d6fa8d6c29658a1" width="607" height="360" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Watch please.

[JayH]

Yanukovytch released statement reiterating he was still President and needs Putin help.!!

He "forgot" to mention where he was !!

[justme100]

LOL

several LOLs in fact.about legitimate current goverment that is "not corrupted" is even out of any discussion.

[Krassie]

The latest news says Yanuk is in Russia. So KGB agent and ex convict are together now. Rumors on TV and Ukrainian newspaper? It might be. We'll see.

[BillyB]

The latest news says Yanuk is in Russia.

I just read that from an American news source too that also said Russia recognizes Yanukovych as the legitimate president and will protect him from extremists. They just created a legal reason to go back into Ukraine and restore the former government.

[fathertime]

The hypocrisy of the US politicions is mind boggling.  John Kerry has just said


JOHN KERRY
"Any kind of military intervention that would violate the sovereign territorial integrity of Ukraine would be a huge, a grave mistake," Kerry told reporters in Washington. "The territorial integrity of Ukraine needs to be respected."[/size][size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
[/size]So now we are all about 'sovereignty?  Really? after what we have done in recent years and threatened to do.  Libya, and Syria come to mind.  Russia has a helluva better reason to intervene than we have had in these other countries.  We should not be 'issuing warnings' to anybody anymore.  Mind our own damn business is what we should be doing.[size=78%]
[/size]
[/size]Fathertime! [/size] 

[The Natural]

I just read that from an American news source too that also said Russia recognizes Yanukovych as the legitimate president and will protect him from extremists. They just created a legal reason to go back into Ukraine and restore the former government.

Or decide if Krim want to stay Ukrainian or go back to Russia as they will hold a referendum on that. One possible outcome is perhaps that Krim turns to Russia and the rest stay Ukrainian protected by the US and west. The US administration got their man in power so far:
 
"Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland met with Oleh Tyahnybok earlier this month. During a phone call tapped by the Russians, Nuland said Tyahnybok confederate Arseniy Yatsenyuk should rule Ukraine." (1)
 
Ukraine then will get the 35 billion loan from the IMF in which it's citizens will pay interests on forever, while at the same time must pay marked price for gas and other things. Krim will be protected by Russia, trade with them and get subsidized gas prices.
 
This is of course just one possible outcome, and who knows? But I'd much rather side with the Russians in this conflict than the revolutionaries that carry along the extreme muslims and neo-nazi groups of jew haters. But that's just me 
 
(1) http://www.infowars.com/fascism-on-the-rise-in-ukraine/