Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[XMan]

 I sometimes wonder about the general psychology of posting anything on a site such as this one.  I am certain it varies from topic to topic and person to person.  It may be ego driven in some cases, searching for support in others, feeling one has something to prove, sympathy seeking, etc.  In this case it’s really just advice, and like any advice, you can accept, ignore, ridicule, ponder, or do something else with it.  In the end, it just doesn’t really matter.
When a gentleman writes about why he chose this pursuit, the assumption is that it's always to find a younger, hotter woman, regardless what the gentleman actually says.  Perhaps that is the only real reason, and everything else is a smokescreen.  Maybe they cannot even admit it to themselves.  Maybe it's exciting because it's exotic, or perhaps because someone genuinely has an interest in the culture.  Maybe it's a trophy hunt, or a weariness of American women.  Perhaps it's all of the above.  In some cases the gentleman in question may simply want to exhaust himself, spend a big chunk of cash, and in general be a masochist and a glutton for punishment.  Or it could be 67 other reasons, who knows.  In the end, I am not certain that “why” really matters.
 
 I cannot begin to guess what the actual real success rate is (and by success I mean a real and meaningful marriage, though you can define it however you wish).  But I imagine that success rate is quite low.
 
 Think about it.

 You have to run the gauntlet. 

 This includes sorting through profiles (free sites, large forums / pay sites, small agencies, etc.),  avoiding numerous pitfalls, including a myriad of scams of all types, finding a woman with some English skills or learning some of the language, or being very confident in your mime ability, actually connecting with someone, coordinating your trip and getting on a plane, hoping that you make a miraculous in-person connection if you WOVO, or that one of your possibilities works out if you are a WMVM person, or that you are fantastically adept and lucky and pull off a last minute backup plan if something goes exceptionally badly.  You also must be prepared to to make multiple trips and / or stay extended periods of time to really get to know someone, all of which requires significant cash, time, and effort.  Then you must work through the tedious piles of paperwork, document everything carefully, and go through the fiance visa process.  And it can still go wildly awry after you actually are together in your home country (or possibly hers). 
So all that having been said, on to the advice portion of our program.

For those of you who are starting out an have not reviewed the K-1 or K-3 process or know little about it, I highly recommend that you research everything that is required and see if you are really up to it before ever considering getting on a plane.  After all, why start if you are incapable or lack the desire to see it through.    I should emphasize that someone does not always fail because he is a social misfit, has unrealistic expectations, is pompous, foolish, makes unwise or worse decisions, etc.  Of course, those reasons are self evident in some cases.  But it may very well be that regardless what he does, or what his intentions are, things simply do not go as hoped.   
 
 Similar to most gentlemen who have gone through this process, I could provide a long list of general tips as well as many pages of advice.  But the truth is, most people have to take their own path and make their own mistakes.  And some advice may work for person "A" but is disastrous for person "B," so advice often seems moot. 
 
So given the above, rather than many tips or pages of advise, I will emphasize two and only two things. 
Before you ponder getting on a plane, even though you may never reach the point of engagement, research what it is going to take.  Visa Journey, mentioned many times on this forum, is your best bet.  My guess is that 99.86% of men who start this process do not do that in advance.  After all, the adventure part is tremendously more entertaining than slogging through paperwork and government requirements. 
My second bit of advice has to do with children.   Having written about it in a previous thread, and having seen what has happened since then, I will word it more strongly here, as my perspective has changed somewhat.

 My one sentence of advice is this:  Do not pursue a woman with a child or children under the age of 18. 
 
 I do not care what amazing character traits she has, how lovely she is, how much you have in common, etc.  I don't care if she spends her free time teaching lepers how to sing and knitting mittens for orphans.  Do yourself a favor, and don’t do it.  I don't care how honorable your intentions are.  Don't do it.  Some of you will anyway, but at least you have been forewarned. 
 
 Now, there are men who have successfully accomplished it, and everything was honey and roses.  I am sure they will write how "all they had to do was XYZ," and poof, everything was lovely. 
There always are those examples. 
There are also successful one week wonders, and lottery winners, and people who survive 3 days at sea with no fresh water and get rescued by a Brazilian fishing boat that wanders by.  But I would be hesitant to hope I would beat the odds in that fashion.

The only exception would be if, written in stone and blessed with the excrement of a magic ox, she has 100% sole custody and can do as she wishes (most importantly, leave the country).  And finding magic ox dung is no small feat these days.  Believe me, I know.
 
 So, if you want to reduce the risk of wasting months, or in my case several years, becoming inextricably emotionally entangled, and setting a stack of $100 bills aflame, choose another path.  Or stay home and watch TV.  Or become a drug runner.  It's less stressful, and the potential reward is far higher.
 
 Is all hope lost in my case?  Not quite yet.  But I have reached the point of wondering if it really has been worth it, as success hangs by one remaining thread and sand is rapidly draining through the hourglass.
 
 Unless greatly intrigued, I won't be responding to any posts in this thread.  No offense to anyone.  I just don't have anything else I wish to say, or anything to add at the moment. 
 
 Best wishes in your respective pursuits.   
 

[Faux Pas]

Sometimes you just need to get it off your chest Xman. As you mentioned, everyone's path is different, sometimes slightly, sometimes remarkedly.

I hope all works out well for you

[pokerintherear]

I agree 100% with you Xman. Things would have to be close to perfect to marry a woman with a child under 21.

Now days the dynamics of a healthy relationship is lost. If a man or woman can't separate the child from the new relationship in a common sense way it is doomed. The basics are spouse 1st and children 2nd. You will find it difficult to find people who think like this. It seems in today's society women have "extreme" attachment issues with children. This is because of the way they feel or see themselves. Almost all times they are single or divorced moms. They feel guilty if they don't give 100% attention to the child. Even though the child cant express his/her feelings. They feel smothered by the parent. But of course the parent is blind to this.

Yes in today's world you will be 2nd place to a mother with child. Eventually you wont be part of the family if the woman cant be the healthy mom.

On the other hand how could a man agree to bring a woman to his country who has child. I wonder if they ever place themselves in the fathers shoes? If I had a ex-wife who was going to take my child to another country and start new I would put up one hell of a fight. It would not happen. And what does this say about the woman who would essentially cut off all contact of with dad? Of course you hear all the stories of how bad the dad is and he was never part of the child's life..Bla,bla,bla. Sounds like thinking of only Number 1....me.me.me.

Then you must question the men who say to make bribes..... Sheeeesh. This is the worse of all the scenarios. I consider this human trafficking.

So yes I see it as a bad idea all the way around for all parties involved. If you are older stick to woman with adult children or no children.

[TheTraveler]

xman - agree.  when i was searching, i considered it to be a total non-starter.

[pitbull]

I agree 100% with you Xman. Things would have to be close to perfect to marry a woman with a child under 21.

Now days the dynamics of a healthy relationship is lost. If a man or woman can't separate the child from the new relationship in a common sense way it is doomed. The basics are spouse 1st and children 2nd. You will find it difficult to find people who think like this. It seems in today's society women have "extreme" attachment issues with children. This is because of the way they feel or see themselves. Almost all times they are single or divorced moms. They feel guilty if they don't give 100% attention to the child. Even though the child cant express his/her feelings. They feel smothered by the parent. But of course the parent is blind to this.

Yes in today's world you will be 2nd place to a mother with child. Eventually you wont be part of the family if the woman cant be the healthy mom.

Substitute "American divorced Dad" in this paragraph, multiply by 10, and you'll get the other side of the story.


When I was searching, a man with kids was a non-starter for me as well.

[pokerintherear]

Your mind is exaggerating with times 10 and upside down with wrong thinking.

First, very few divorced American men get full custody of minor children. My guess is 10%. Family courts don't like men.

Second, if you married a divorced American man in the US, his kids who live with the ex-wife would not immigrate to your home country causing the mother to have an ocean between her and her kids.

Apples-Oranges

 

[pitbull]

Your mind is exaggerating with times 10 and upside down with wrong thinking.

First, very few divorced American men get full custody of minor children. My guess is 10%. Family courts don't like men.

Second, if you married a divorced American man in the US, his kids who live with the ex-wife would not immigrate to your home country causing the mother to have an ocean between her and her kids.

Apples-Oranges

Well, a lot of men seeking RW are older divorced men with kids from previous marriages. I'd guess a large majority. The most customary arrangement is 50/50 with daddies feeling guilty and spoiling the kids rotten, turning them into little monsters with no discipline. Plus AW ex constantly being involved in the new family. Plus daddy trying to buy the kids' love with expensive presents, then college payments, new cars etc. nightmare. I deleted the letters from divorced dads immediately.


The second part doesn't concern me    as I was coming to the US

[CDW]

Wolverine

I had 2 ex-girlfriends from Colombia - both with children - too much hassle!  Not worth it!

[fathertime]

Nice post Xman...for the most part I have to agree.  When i was looking, I wanted a younger/prettier woman than what I was likely to find here.  Sometimes it appears people bend over backwards to justify some other reasons why they found a young beautiful woman from abroad...I don't think that is necessary though...I would rather be upfront about my reasons and if somebody objects to that, they are welcome to kiss both sides of my azz. 


   I considered women with a child, but it was not something I took as a positive.  I just didn't feel like I wanted to raise another man's child and since I had a lot of options I choose a young woman without children.  I'm glad I had options and I'm happy with that choice.  Some would stress how hypocritical this position is, because I had children that lived under my roof, but I figured that women knew that up front and it scared off quite a few, but that still left quite a few that were not.


Fathertime!       

[CDW]

   I considered women with a child, but it was not something I took as a positive. I just didn't feel like I wanted to raise another man's child and since I had a lot of options I choose a young woman without children. 


Fathertime!     

I love my ex-girlfriend's daughters and we still keep in touch.  Coming to UK to live is too much to hassle.  School, for example where theses 2 girls do not speak English let alone finding one .....

[fathertime]

I love my ex-girlfriend's daughters and we still keep in touch. 

I know CDW (Gato)...you have always tried to be a good man...I always short circuited relationships before I could get to the point where I got involved with the kids.  I just knew it was my limitation and would not work FOR ME. 


Fathertime! 

[jone]

I have seen many marriages whereby a man marries a woman who has a child in tow.  My observation is that it can be successfully done to the benefit of all.  But make no mistake, it is a challenge.

[Faux Pas]

I have seen many marriages whereby a man marries a woman who has a child in tow.  My observation is that it can be successfully done to the benefit of all.  But make no mistake, it is a challenge.

I personally know two such couples and both admit to quite a few hiccups/burps/projectile vomiting but so far, the marriages appear solid and strong. It can happen and requires more work.

Look for the woman, first. If the relationship doesn't get you past her children then, move on. The relationship priority is with the mother. If it doesn't work, none of it will. Kids can sabotage it later

[northkape]

Different views

In my opinion, for my situation, having the main custody of our twin boys, I'm not even considering a woman without a child.
A young mother with a single child, preferably a couple of years younger than my ten year old boys.
I don't see any problems at all finding a good such woman to build a solid family with, where we have a common interest in raising our children.
And no need for it to be very expensive either, time consuming yes, but not very expensive, (but then I'm in many ways a cheapskate, smile)

I am well inside my timetable of a year to find several good prospects, but will have to wait till August before marrying with one of them.

As for everyone, there is no way to guarantee that our marriage will last forever, but I would be surprised if it were to fail in less than 10 years.

 

[jmana]

Different views

In my opinion, for my situation, having the main custody of our twin boys, I'm not even considering a woman without a child.
A young mother with a single child, preferably a couple of years younger than my ten year old boys.
I don't see any problems at all finding a good such woman to build a solid family with, where we have a common interest in raising our children.
And no need for it to be very expensive either, time consuming yes, but not very expensive, (but then I'm in many ways a cheapskate, smile)

I am well inside my timetable of a year to find several good prospects, but will have to wait till August before marrying with one of them.

As for everyone, there is no way to guarantee that our marriage will last forever, but I would be surprised if it were to fail in less than 10 years.

 

Well there's no way to get around the fact that it does add to the cost.  It will double the visa fee, nearly double the medical fee, double the flight/transportation (unless it's an infant), and the AOS will be around $1,700 as opposed to $1,000.  Also take into account that you will be buying a new wardrobe for 2 rather than 1, and feeding 2 additional mouths.  Since you already have kids I assume you already have a family health insurance policy so hopefully that cost won't go up for you.  But yeah, saying that it's not very expensive is relative considering you are going to nearly double all the initial outlay of $$$.  And I'm not even taking into account day care fees, or her loss of income because she needs to stay home to care for her kid (if it's a preschool aged child).  The plus side is an additional tax deduction   But the thing that is really scaring me about marrying a woman with a child, is what if it doesn't work out?  Then I'm really going to be paying out some cash via child support.  I don't know what the guidelines are for divorced step parents, but I know I'd have to pay something.  And if I adopt and things go south, then I'll really be paying out the nose.  So yeah, I can definitely see why men would stay away from women with kids, especially when it seems like it's just as easy to find someone without.  But for me, the reason I began a relationship with someone who had a kid, is because she seemed more down to earth than the ones without.  A lot of the women I conversed with of her age group (late 20's, early 30's) were really unrealistic about everything, and I felt like someone raising a 3 year old by herself has already had a generous dose of reality and was better prepared to deal with life.  Hopefully my theory proves to be correct

[Faux Pas]

Well there's no way to get around the fact that it does add to the cost.  It will double the visa fee, nearly double the medical fee, double the flight/transportation (unless it's an infant), and the AOS will be around $1,700 as opposed to $1,000.  Also take into account that you will be buying a new wardrobe for 2 rather than 1, and feeding 2 additional mouths.  Since you already have kids I assume you already have a family health insurance policy so hopefully that cost won't go up for you.  But yeah, saying that it's not very expensive is relative considering you are going to nearly double all the initial outlay of $$$.  And I'm not even taking into account day care fees, or her loss of income because she needs to stay home to care for her kid (if it's a preschool aged child).  The plus side is an additional tax deduction   But the thing that is really scaring me about marrying a woman with a child, is what if it doesn't work out?  Then I'm really going to be paying out some cash via child support.  I don't know what the guidelines are for divorced step parents, but I know I'd have to pay something.  And if I adopt and things go south, then I'll really be paying out the nose.  So yeah, I can definitely see why men would stay away from women with kids, especially when it seems like it's just as easy to find someone without.  But for me, the reason I began a relationship with someone who had a kid, is because she seemed more down to earth than the ones without.  A lot of the women I conversed with of her age group (late 20's, early 30's) were really unrealistic about everything, and I felt like someone raising a 3 year old by herself has already had a generous dose of reality and was better prepared to deal with life.  Hopefully my theory proves to be correct

Ummmmm no. In most states anyway. You are not on the proverbial hook for child support but, the tenets of affidavit of support extend to mother and child. I've never heard of a case where it was actually enforced. If you adopt the child and the marriage goes south you should pay the child support. Kids are not part time entertainment with their welfare being toyed like a yo-yo. When you adopt a child you swear to take care of it as your own and that is to adulthood regardless of your ability to maintain a marriage. If you're not willing, don't adopt.

[Jumper]

Well, a lot of men seeking RW are older divorced men with kids from previous marriages. I'd guess a large majority. The most customary arrangement is 50/50 with daddies feeling guilty and spoiling the kids rotten, turning them into little monsters with no discipline. Plus AW ex constantly being involved in the new family. Plus daddy trying to buy the kids' love with expensive presents, then college payments, new cars etc. nightmare. I deleted the letters from divorced dads immediately.


The second part doesn't concern me    as I was coming to the US

Pitbull , while i see this point , you seem full of sunshine lately
That's a lot of general negativity on Western fathers?
You actually feel that's accurate in most cases? I know a lot of fathers , few have true 50/50 custody, and even fewer fit the other negatives.
Some would, but that isn't a type I'd hang around much.
Just as a cultural comparison, I wonder how the average Russian women feels about divorced ex RM as fathers, and what similar, if any, concerns there are.

My value as a husband and father isn't decreased because I did have a son,
and full custody. I did not view women with children that way, as some liability,
and FSU women with children,  are also  the large majority. Its bit natural with adults.
Also i'm glad the majority did not view me with such a  view.

Of course we all make personal choices to view such things either as negative or positive.
The OP posted some valid negatives, you did as well.

There seems middle ground out there?

I would like to thank those who deleted any  letters i may have sent (or not since i dint write any)as if my being a father was viewed as a negative on my character, or for their life, it saved us both time in  establishing in compatibility.


I would not advise men here to avoid RW with children.
I would advise them that she is sure about relocation,had though tt it through practically,  her existing situation with her ex, and the true level of involvement of the father of her child(ren).

[CDW]

I know CDW (Gato)...you have always tried to be a good man...I always short circuited relationships before I could get to the point where I got involved with the kids.  I just knew it was my limitation and would not work FOR ME. 


Fathertime!

My last girlfriend from Italy - no children - but our relationship did not work out.  She was really homesick !!

I always wondered that you are 'The' Fathertime lol

[CDW]

A good woman with children doesn't always be the best woman for you.   Being as a good mother, she focuses too much time on her children, and you aren't her top priority except for being as an ATM man!

In Colombia, mothers spent too much time with children and sometimes I wonder why the Colombian men are very unfaithful.  They are often 'forgotten' by the mother of their own children!

The women with children need to realise that men do have feelings.

[pitbull]

Pitbull , while i see this point , you seem full of sunshine lately
That's a lot of general negativity on Western fathers?
You actually feel that's accurate in most cases? I know a lot of fathers , few have true 50/50 custody, and even fewer fit the other negatives.
Some would, but that isn't a type I'd hang around much.
Just as a cultural comparison, I wonder how the average Russian women feels about divorced ex RM as fathers, and what similar, if any, concerns there are.

My value as a husband and father isn't decreased because I did have a son,
and full custody. I did not view women with children that way, as some liability,
and FSU women with children,  are also  the large majority. Its bit natural with adults.
Also i'm glad the majority did not view me with such a  view.

Of course we all make personal choices to view such things either as negative or positive.
The OP posted some valid negatives, you did as well.

There seems middle ground out there?

I would like to thank those who deleted any  letters i may have sent (or not since i dint write any)as if my being a father was viewed as a negative on my character, or for their life, it saved us both time in  establishing in compatibility.


I would not advise men here to avoid RW with children.
I would advise them that she is sure about relocation,had though tt it through practically,  her existing situation with her ex, and the true level of involvement of the father of her child(ren).

Jumper,
This is a short summary of what I've been reading on the forums for Russian women abroad for almost 10 years.
Not being able to fit into such family dynamic is probably #1 reason for divorce among RW and AM, closely followed by money and sex.
Again a generalization, but with divorced RM, "previous" kids are usually more or less out of the picture, if they are lucky they get child support.
AM are generally much more into kids and are very closely involved with kids from previous marriage, financially, emotionally, and time-wise.
That's one of the reasons I was looking abroad - to find a guy who would be a great and involved dad, to OUR kids 
 
 
 
 

[Jumper]

I think i got it.
You could find a RM with no children or even with  past children and still likely no hassle into the new family life.

Felt the  western  man was more likely to be a good father,
but along with that is more likely to remain involved with any children he had prior, so you looked only for men without children.A little convoluted , but i see it.



Let's just be more direct?
People often don't like past issues,messes or upsets in the fantasy family they have in mind for the future.... and prior children can be.

I completely understand that. Everyone would like it all new , shiny, perfect. If they can manage that , great!




I'm just not cut out of a cloth that can view a child that way, and I'm a realist as well.Life is often messy, and a very large  number of adults have children, so being able to accept that, and truly accept their child seemed a good trait, not a negative one.
Hey maybe I'm enough of a pain in the butt that I  needed to be more open to possibilities? Or it would just be a bit hypocritical not to be
I do know it can be  a difficult dynamic.Some people can really struggle to adapt to a family dynamic with a child not their own.
Overall I would view it as a growth and maturity as a person to be able to.

The OPs situation is not based on such a dynamic though, it has  more to do with a mother who had not thought relocation through to its necessary eventuality?
The father is either involved, and understandably wouldn't allow the relocation, or not involved , and  has other motives.
Either way I  empathize with Xman. .. rough deal.

[pitbull]

I think i got it.
You could find a RM with no children or even with  past children and still likely no hassle into the new family life.

Felt the  western  man was more likely to be a good father,
but along with that is more likely to remain involved with any children he had prior, so you looked only for men without children.A little convoluted , but i see it.



Let's just be more direct?
People often don't like past issues,messes or upsets in the fantasy family they have in mind for the future.... and prior children can be.

I completely understand that. Everyone would like it all new , shiny, perfect. If they can manage that , great!




I'm just not cut out of a cloth that can view a child that way, and I'm a realist as well.Life is often messy, and a very large  number of adults have children, so being able to accept that, and truly accept their child seemed a good trait, not a negative one.
Hey maybe I'm enough of a pain in the butt that I  needed to be more open to possibilities? Or it would just be a bit hypocritical not to be
I do know it can be  a difficult dynamic.Some people can really struggle to adapt to a family dynamic with a child not their own.
Overall I would view it as a growth and maturity as a person to be able to.

The OPs situation is not based on such a dynamic though, it has  more to do with a mother who had not thought relocation through to its necessary eventuality?
The father is either involved, and understandably wouldn't allow the relocation, or not involved , and  has other motives.
Either way I  empathize with Xman. .. rough deal.

Hey, I was 23-24, no prior marriages or divorces, no kids. New, perfect and shiny, ya know. Only made sense to look for someone to experience  kids together, If I had a kid of my own I would definitely expand my search to fathers.


I have no doubt you are an excellent father, Jumper! And looking like Tom Cruise to boot, of course you're quite a catch 

[fathertime]

My last girlfriend from Italy - no children - but our relationship did not work out.  She was really homesick !!

I always wondered that you are 'The' Fathertime lol

Hey Gato!


Yeah, it is me..zon turned me on to this place which I had forgotten existed...the stories from the  men in the midst of it are good to read.  Well it is good you gave it an attempt with the Italian lady...many are content to wallow in a dull warm stupor instead of being proactive. 

   But for me, the reason I began a relationship with someone who had a kid, is because she seemed more down to earth than the ones without.  A lot of the women I conversed with of her age group (late 20's, early 30's) were really unrealistic about everything, and I felt like someone raising a 3 year old by herself has already had a generous dose of reality and was better prepared to deal with life.  Hopefully my theory proves to be correct

Hey Jmana, I think you hit one of the biggest upsides to a woman with a child...usually she is better prepared for the realities of life, and I'm guessing on average more willing to roll with the punches.  Obviously the downsides could also be greater....clearly generalities don't apply to all individuals in a group, so hopefully the theory does prove out in your case!


Fathertime! 

[Jumper]

Hey, I was 23-24, no prior marriages or divorces, no kids. New, perfect and shiny, ya know. Only made sense to look for someone to experience  kids together,




PitBull, of course that makes perfect sense ,
and as i stated prior, if someone can manage it, GREAT!
I dint realize you were that age back then.. and age of course is a big factor!
When i was 24 and single, I wasn't as open to someone with children, I wouldn't have been ready for *instant* family perhaps !




If I had a kid of my own I would definitely expand my search to fathers.

Understandable as well, and frankly that's were a lot of men and women in this adventure are at?


I have no doubt you are an excellent father, Jumper!


I try, this is one part of life that brings to me the most joy, and also the most second guessing and reevaluating of oneself.What you could have possibly dome better, or tried a different approach, etc.


And looking like Tom Cruise to boot, of course you're quite a catch 


LOL, thanks but those days are long gone..  my wrinkled popa tells me so.. I'm ok with that.
I'm just as annoying as ever. so i've got that going for me,which is nice!
(sorry old silly move reference)

[chooter]

A woman from Belarus with TWO GROWN SONS marries a friend of mine several years ago.  She relocates here after the K1, all goes well and they marry.
A few weeks after they get married the sons start calling mom on her cell phone....where is our money mom??? You've stopped sending us money!!!! Soon ole 85 year old religious fanatic mom starts calling...I need money, you stopped sending me money.

My friend ask? Why and just how much money were you sending to your sons and mother before you came here and we married? She told him her sons could not get a job and earn a salary. no jobs in Belarus. Mom is old and not have much money. I have to help them.  Friend ask again. HOW MUCH MONEY WERE YOU GIVING THEM? I was giving each one of them $250.00 a month.

Now they are in trouble because they have no money and cannot provide for themselves. Friend ask new wife...What kind of work can they do? Her reply, they've never been able to work, no jobs, I've always supported them.

Friend ask..Do you have the money to keep supporting your sorry ass lazy sons and and greedy old religious fanatic mom?

WOW! why you call my sons and  mom that? Because that's what they are. WOW who put those words into your mouth?
ALL THREE OF YOUR SISTERS THAT LEFT BELARUS AND WENT TO RUSSIA TO GET AWAY FROM YOUR GREEDY OLD RELIGIOUS FANATIC MOM WHEN THEY FINISHED SCHOOL.

The marriage ended in divorce in less than 8 months. He would not help her support her family with the amount of money she was giving them.
Her sisters told him that SONS and MOM were a priority and not the husbands.

He's remarried to lady from Ukraine now. The first thing he asked her when they started getting a little serious in their correspondence was..
DO YOU HAVE ANY SONS?

She told him no, I have no kids. Friend tells her...I'll be flying to meet you in 6 weeks then.